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Dublin: 11 °C Saturday 18 May, 2013

85 per cent of primary pupils ‘in classes larger than EU average’

The INTO says the figures are “shocking”, and should serve as a “wake-up call” to the government ahead of the next Budget.

Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland

85 PER CENT of Irish primary school pupils are in classes larger than the EU average, according to figures published this morning.

The figures, released by the Irish National Teachers’ Organisation, show that Wicklow has the most overcrowded classrooms, with 28.2 per cent of pupils in classes with 30 students or more, and with only 9 per cent of pupils in classes of 20 or lower.

By comparison, Waterford City has the smallest level of overcrowding, with 10.4 per cent of pupils in classes of 30 or more.

INTO general secretary Sheila Nunan condemned the figures, saying the government was failing to tackle the problem which appeared to be getting worse in urban areas and commuter counties.

“When class numbers are reasonable, modern teaching methods are possible and there is more teacher time for children,” Nunan said. “If we want to improve education outcomes for children the last thing that should be done is increase class sizes.”

The ‘official’ pupil-teacher ratio in Ireland is 29, set to rise to 30 under government plans. A decade ago, the government proposed to reduce class sizes to less than 20 in the case of children aged 9 and under.

Nunan said the figures published by the INTO did not include almost 10,000 pupils with special needs, the majority of whom are integrated into mainstream clasrooms.

“Most children in primary school this year were not even born when the seeds of economic mismanagement were sown,” she said. “They should not be expected to pay the price of keeping banks on life support machines.”

After Wicklow, the counties with the highest proportion of pupils in classes of 30 and over were:

  • Limerick (28.1 per cent)
  • Kilkenny (26.9 per cent)
  • Meath (26.1 per cent)
  • Cork county (25.9 per cent)
  • Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown (24.8 per cent)
  • Kildare (24.1 per cent)
  • Waterford county (22.5 per cent)

The counties with the lowest proportion of classes with 30 or more, after Waterford, were North Tipperary, Galway city, Westmeath, Sligo, Offaly and Kerry.

Primary schools face larger class sizes and fewer special needs teachers >

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Comments (11 Comments)

  • But, as I already wrote, Ireland has a higher cost of living. So inn real terms, ratio of pay to GDP, the 3rd graph, Ireland is average and behind NZ.
    Irish teachers (with 15 years experience) are paid a ratio of 1.17 of GDP per capita, in NZ it is 1.61 the OECD average is 1.33
    http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/34/33671263.xls

    long story short, NZ teachers get more in real terms, Irish teachers get less than average.

    (And before this is jumped on, yes its a decent wage, and yes we’re lucky to have a job)

    Reply
  • Before this turns into the usual teacher bashing here are the facts. Yes Irish teachers earn more than other european countries BUT we live in a country with a very high cost of living. When this is factored in, Irish teachers earn slightly less than the OECD average. Irish primary schools have the largest class size in Europe. Irish primary teachers work more hours than most European countries.
    These are the facts, not opinion or hyperbole
    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/teacher-pay-around-the-world/

    Reply
    • According to the second chart on that link you provided, Irish teacher’s pay is in the Top 5 in the OECD. However teachers in New Zealand, which is recognised as having one of the best education systems in the world and which has a similar population size to Ireland, are paid less than Irish teachers yet they spend more than 200 extra hours in the classroom.

      Reply
  • Consider, nat ratio is 29 children per teacher, this is the min allowed therefore if any class falls below 29 another class/es have to increase by the same amount! eg class 1 has 25 kids (-4 on nat ratio) class 2 has to have 29 4=33 kids! Otherwise even if you are down by 1 child the school looses a teacher!!!
    Crazy to increase this ratio, people need to understand this ratio better, most schools will have to have big classes 30 just to maintain the current ratio

    Reply
  • EM 26/09/11 #

    This is nothing new, we’ve been complaining about it for years yet the Government doesn’t seem to care at all. They have done nothing to address this…at least nothing that shows on ground level here.

    Reply
  • Neil 26/09/11 #

    We can’t hire any new teachers as we can’t even afford to pay the ones we have. We can’t have the best paid teachers in Europe AND have low class sizes.

    Reply
    • I see you believe the crap about saving the banks Neil.

      Reply
    • Neil 26/09/11 #

      @Oil
      Even without the bank debts we are still have a serious budget deficit. That’s a fact. Saying that this is just about the banks is ridiculous. We built up a huge government expenditure on the back of tax receipts from a construction boom. And the boom is gone and not coming back.
      Anyone who says we can have just the same government expenditure with half the tax income is not being serious.
      Bigger class sizes is just one of a thousand ways that life has gotten worse since the bust.

      And as regards the banks, it’s our debt now. You can wish it all away, and say that it’s Fianna Fails debts, or it’s the Germans debts, but the fact is that it is now Irelands debt now. And defaulting on your debts is not the bed of roses you may paint it.

      If we default then we need to balance our budget overnight = massive cuts in government expenditure overnight, and even less chance we can hire new teachers in that scenario.

      Seems to be a lot of talk now about Iceland now being a model for Ireland, but tell me what the average wage of a teacher is in Iceland?

      Reply
  • The quality of teacher matters more than the size of the class. Plenty of people older than me were educated in classes of 35 to 40 pupils. I can’t wait to see the INTO study into the average European teacher’s pay.

    As for ways to cut the education pay bill, how about making the correction of exam papers, the supervision of exams and the supervision of pupils in corridors/yards part of a teacher’s job description so millions are saved this way.

    Reply
  • John Doc 26/09/11 #

    I’d say this is just rubbish data published by the INTO to suit their members interests.
    There are eurostat figures out there that use proper statistical methods to establish pupil:teacher ratios….. but these are rubbish right ;-) Or don’t suit the INTO.
    They’d rather come up with their own figures….. then use the eurostat figures to make a flawed illustration….
    I could be wrong, love to see the INTO’s statistical method though. Bet I’m right.

    Reply

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