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Dublin: 15 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

AIB chief executive asks senior executives to give up pensions

Enda Kenny says the AIB chief has written to former executives, asking them to recall their ‘moral responsibility’.

THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE of Allied Irish Banks has written to the bank’s former senior executives asking them to consider waiving some of their pension entitlements, it has emerged.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny told the Dáil that David Duffy had written to the bank’s former executives asking that they reflect on the request “as an issue of moral responsibility”.

The request comes after it emerged last week that AIB used a €1.1 billion to its pension scheme, funded by the taxpayer, to maintain the pensions of former executives who earn up to €500,000 a year.

Kenny this afternoon told the Dáil that the €1.1 billion had been provided by the government in order to facilitate the voluntary redundancy of 2,500 workers, as AIB looks to lower its payroll costs, and not to help fund the larger pensions of former staff.

This payment ensured that the “voluntary retirement of up to 2,500 staff could actually have done ahead”.

If the payment had not been made, Kenny said, “the consequences would have forced redundancies, and therefore a position that those executives would have continued to receive the extraordinary pension remuneration that they are currently in receipt of,” the Taoiseach said.

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams described the funding of large private pensions by the taxpayer as “deeply offensive” and pointed out that while in opposition, James Reilly had called for a 99 per cent levy on bankers’ pensions.

Little that Noonan can do

Kenny said this had actually been a proposal on bonuses and not pensions, but admitted that the government could do little to amend the terms of contracts which had already been agreed upon.

“It’s not open to the Minister to change the contractual arrangements that were arrived by a previous administration,” he said, adding that the chief executives of AIB and Irish Permanent – both of whom were appointed since the current government took office – were subject to a €500,000-per-annum pay cap.

The technical group’s Shane Ross pointed out, however, that IBRC chief Mike Aynsley receives a pay package of €666,000 a year while Bank of Ireland’s Richie Boucher receives pay of about €620,000.

Ross pointed out that the chairman of the latter bank’s remunerations committee, Dermot Walsh, is one of the State’s public interest directors – and said the State had therefore implicitly approved the payment of large salaries and bonuses to senior staff.

“What do the public interest directors do, if they don’t sit on the remuneration committee and rubber-stamp these outrageous amounts through?

“I’d like to ask the Taoiseach if any of those public interest directors have any interest in the public!”

Ross called on the Taoiseach to summon the public interest directors of the guaranteed banks and tell them the government would no longer tolerate the approval of pay rates above the current pay cap.

Read: AIB permanently closes 44 branches across country

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Comments (103 Comments)

  • andrew 06/11/12 #

    The technical group’s Shane Ross pointed out, however, that IBRC chief Mike Aynsley receives a pay package of €666,000 a year while Bank of Ireland’s Richie Boucher receives pay of about €620,000.

    God, thats very unfair to Richie Boucher isnt it?

    Reply
    • Mike Aynsley: ‘The Pension of the Beast’.

      Reply
    • Gavan , is that not your main business. An agregator of news.? Every morning we begin with the 9 at 9 and it always includes references such as “…. The Irish Times reports ” Some other Title reports . This continues throughout the day. You cannot say it is not your business to report on others stories. It is . Except for Column work.

      Reply
    • Rory – This is still the case for overseas news, but we haven’t aggregated Irish news for almost 18 months now. The 9 at 9 is a slightly different beast because its precise function is to act as a round-up of what’s in the news. It’s sort of like ‘What It Says In The Papers’ that way. The rest of the content on the site – at least, from within an Irish point of view – is entirely self-produced. We don’t publish anything that we haven’t ourselves looked into or can personally stand over.

      Reply
    • Holding a church gate collection for them tis week end God how can they be expected to manage on this income

      Reply
  • lol good luck with that

    Reply
    • funniest story ive seen all day, sure maybe enda will give up some of his too hahahahaha

      Reply
    • Why not tax all tax payer funded pensions over a certain value €50k for example is more than fair at 95%. Then they greedy gobsh1tes wouldn’t have a choice. I’d especially include the money that Neary, Cowen Bertie etc are rolling around in.

      Reply
    • and did the almighty plonker Kenny take a cut in his pension or 2k a week wage?

      Reply
    • Moral responsability????…….banks???….really Enda. Any luck getting that watch off Fingers Fingleton?..no?..really?…you have two hopes Enda…Bob and f*ck all…..

      Reply
    • These shower of b’stards bankrupted their business’s & as a consequence every man woman & child are in debt to the tune of €60/70,000. Tax these incompetent b’stards @ 84% in the euro on pension income. This type of talk asking them about moral bullshit is absolutely killing me, Kenny won’t do it because he would have to do the same in the public sector aswell. The more I think of it ” asking them to give up a few quid”, spineless leadership & an insult to all decent citizens

      Reply
  • Lead by example ministers will be the reply.

    Reply
    • Tom
      The ownership of AIB by the State is irrelevant in the context you mention. The law of the land just doesn’t allow you to behave vindictively towards employees whatever their earnings. At the same time you propose selling the Bank if it can’t be managed by the State in the bullying and illegal manner you demand. Get a grip Tom, we wouldn’t get two and sixpence for business and my objective as a taxpayer is to get a return on the States investment rather than give it away.

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    • Tom
      The ownership of AIB by the State is irrelevant in the context you mention. The law of the land just doesn’t allow you to behave vindictively towards employees whatever their earnings. At the same time you propose selling the Bank if it can’t be managed by the State in the bullying and illegal manner you demand. Get a grip Tom, we wouldn’t get two and sixpence for business and my objective as a taxpayer is to get a return on the States investment rather than give it away.

      Reply
  • JakkiB 06/11/12 #

    How about Telling them and not asking them!! Add Bertie and his crew as well

    Reply
  • Scarr 06/11/12 #

    You have to laugh, don’t you? You and your loved ones standard of living is being reduced through levies, water charges and home owner tax in order to help pay for the pensions of retired executives who, quite likely, have millions of euro in savings. Just think about that for a second. It’s quite perverse.

    Reply
  • Slightly confused…so they cannot do much to alter the terms of the pensions these people are getting
    but
    they can introduce a water charge
    they can introduce a property tax
    they can reduce social welfare payments
    they can reduce child benefit payments
    they can bring in a usc charge
    they can increase income tax
    they can increase VAT
    oh and of course thet can increase their own wages
    YET
    they cannot figure a way to tax the hell out of these pensions
    Im sorry but there is no way that they could have paid so much into a pension pot that they would be getting well in excess of 500k, its obsense.
    they are getting near enough 20 times the average year wage, and yet we that are at the bottom struggling, while they who caused a lot of the hardship live in their irony towers and sneer down at us
    Seriously labour/ FG grow some balls, and take from those who can well afford it, rather than those who are having sleepless nights worrying about what comes next month, and what sacrifices they must make to put food on the table, clothes on their kids backs and to pay the bills!!!!

    Reply
  • They absolutely could introduce a new tax liability for money received by senior bankers weather bonus or pensions , where there is a will there’s a way…. Scandal they are funded by tax payers and get hundreds thousands for wrecking economy

    Reply
  • What’s with the continuous pussyfooting around these bankers? Take the pensions from them and tell them we will be in touch with them when all investigations are complete with regards to bank lending practices.
    As the weeks go by I am more and more in a state of disbelief when I see how our country is run.

    Reply
    • They are not pussyfooting around, they are controlled by banks/big business. You don’t live in a democracy!!

      Get it yet!!

      Reply
    • “Take the pensions from them and tell them we will be in touch with them when all investigations are complete with regards to bank lending practices.”

      So we are treating them as guilty, until proven otherwise?

      If this approach was taken against anyone else there would be uproar, and rightly so.

      Reply
  • To turn round and say that the Governments hands are tied is a big cop out. Desperate times call for desperate measures. This crowd have to be the most pompous, arrogant shower of criminals ever to be given power. Sorry let me call that selective power. You get the likes of that bully hogan making all sorts of threats to the less well off, but have they got the guts to take on the big boys? Not a chance.

    Reply
    • Rodrigo!! Complete tripe…Criminals??? How are people allowed to say this stuff on this site?? Its basically an internet version of pub talk….
      Interesting how this site did not report on the Irish Times articale on who are really tax in Ireland!!! Very interesting reading and you are right its not fair!!! Its not fair that 21% of people in Ireland pay 88% of taxation……

      Reply
    • Declan – With respect, I think you misunderstand what exactly TheJournal.ie aspires to be. Why would be report on someone else’s reporting?

      Reply
    • Declan are you happy for bailout money going to pay the pensions of the very people who destroyed the banking system, I know you are an ardent government supporter but come on!

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    • dont worry if the journal doesnt report anything declan, im sure you will do it for them

      Reply
    • The Government are breaking laws, are they? Which laws are you referring to that they’re breaking, thus rendering them criminals?

      Reply
    • Guys, as opposed to just red-thumbing my request for a list of the crimes the current Government has been proven to have broken, just supply us with the list. I’ll genuinely back any movement that seeks to have them prosecuted for these crimes if you can just list them out with the evidence of their breaking supplied.

      Otherwise making grand accusations from the security of anonymous accounts without an iota of proof is about as cowardly as one can get.

      Reply
    • You’re taking those comments awfully personal Richard care to tell us why?

      Reply
    • #Ryan- the problem you have in understanding Richard there is that he’s asking you and your cohorts to substantiate some of the drivel you feel obliged to spout out. Really, he should have known that anything other than regurgitating mindless rhetoric is beyond you and your ilk, I think it is decent if him to try and educate ye. Doomed and all as that endeavour undoubtedly is.

      Reply
    • ‘regurgitating mindless rhetoric’ from the one who supports every government move without thought, and comes in here everyday to insult the same person with the same idiotic name calling, talk about coming across as a witless bully

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    • My ilk?! Please elaborate.

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    • Oh it’s nothing personal, Ryan. I just see a lot of unfounded, populist soapboxing being made by anonymous accounts here who when asked to qualify a single statement they make tend to go quiet or disappear. Soapboxing that in this case contains libelous comments made by someone too cowardly to sign their own name to it.

      Lots of mouthing off, grand claims and populist rhetoric, yet always lacking substance … a description that could also very aptly describe some of the opposition parties a lot here support, I believe.

      Anyway, It might be better off just not addressing those too cowardly to represent themselves and choose anonymous aliases so they can sling bile without fear of retribution? What do you think?

      Reply
    • Ever heard of hyperbole lads?
      Refusing to tackle the disgusting pensions paid to those responsible for the very real hardship and hopelessness facing many of our citizens is criminal (there it is, did you spot it?).

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    • ah noddy sure that’s just speculation, these men want proof! if you cant quantify it with physical evidence, it doesn’t exist

      Reply
    • #Revolting- I so wish I was you.

      Reply
    • Anonymous aliases Richard? Really? Your Facebook account offers nothing to verify your identity.
      Welcome to the internet!

      Reply
    • i dont blame you vincent, i wouldnt blame you for wanting to be anyone else at all…

      Reply
    • Girls. That you’re ridiculing the idea of providing substantiation for what you’re saying is embarrassing for ye. That you don’t even have the wit to recognise that yourselves just speaks volumes. Intellectual giants ye are.

      Reply
    • Calling a person or group of people “criminals” and calling an action committed by an entity “criminal” are two very different things.

      The former is defamation while the latter is exaggeration/hyperbole as you correctly labeled it.

      Anyway, I asked which crimes the current Government have been proven to have committed, rendering them criminals, and none were provided so in essence the site is tolerating libelous / defamatory comments about a national entity, for what reason they do so, I admittedly do not know.

      Reply
    • Richard…
      they have comitted moral criminality because they let it happen

      Reply
    • @Richard
      and another thing… do you think the answer enda kenny gave shane ross was good enough for the people of this country…this is a guy who earns as much as obama and gets his pic on time magazine..he boasts of the celtic comeback..the only celtic comeback..do you not think fame has gone to this mans head

      Reply
    • #Damien- one of Ireland’s biggest problems is that the international community has lost faith in it. That Enda takes every opportunity to talk up a “Celtic Comeback” is to his credit. Perception is everything.

      Reply
    • sorry Vincent our leaders perception means nothing…anyone who wishes to invest in ireland inc just needs to look at the facts and figures to see enda kennys perception of ireland is completely off the mark…we are where we were 2 years ago…the bankers are still getting their way and the people are still footing the bill…i appreciate you are a fine gael man but do you not see they have lost their way

      Reply
    • #Damien, 2 things. 1). It was the Time journalist who spoke of a resurgent Ireland. Not the Taoiseach, 2). I think you actually overestimate FG. Their room for manouevre is beyond limited. If FG can pull off a bank debt deal, keep our interest rate down, get the Troika out of the country and do so without surrendering our corporate tax rate- this Government will have been a spectacular success. So far, they’re making progress. Nobody in Government now could avoid the horrible cuts. You say they lied to get elected. Yes they did. You have to in this country.

      Reply
    • @Vincent
      your final couple of lines speak volumes
      the government lied to the people in order to gain power…whos to say they are not still lying…i could make a case for that being criminal in itself but i think it would be a waste of time…you seem a very articulate and intelligent man and its a shame you have been blinded by the party politic of just getting elected…and i must disagree, they are not making progress, unemployment up, stroke politics, gold plated pensions for the boys…sounds all too familar

      Reply
    • @Vincent
      Just to be pedantic…it wasant the journalist whose face was on the cover of time

      Reply
    • #Damien- he was the subject of the interview!!! Was he meant to say no thanks- Ireland doesn’t need or want this free, incredibly positive publicity??? I mean really??? Unemployment is a FF legacy. The country may get used to bad economic news. This is a hole that is going to take a long time to climb out if. Did you really think we’d be looking at new jobs and no cuts now? As for stroke politics, O’Reillly hasn’t done well but noone can tell me Enda Kenny is anything other than an honest man.

      Reply
    • Legacy is a tired excuse..you have concieded fine gael lied to get to power and yet you say kenny is an honest man…take your pick

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    • # Damien….you’re being tired of the legacy excuse, doesn’t make it illegitimate. FF did 40 years worth of damage to this Republic. Anyone who expected it to be turned around in 18 months was deluding themselves. As for vestal virgin politicians, this country doesn’t reward them. Ask Alan Dukes. To get elected in Ireland you have to tell the people what they want to hear. Is it right, no. Is it true, yes. I can forgive Enda some electioneering if he turns the country around. You have to get elected to make a difference, after all. One of my biggest criticisms of FG was that they were too nice & lett FF walk all over them. 1. Bank deal. 2 manageable interest. 3 Troika out. 4. Corporation tax maintained. That’s a win for Ireland. Everything else is secondary

      Reply
  • I suppose the budget this year will have a similar request on all the items included rather than the usual demand for payments. This attitude reflects how Enda views the people of Ireland. He see us at an average age of 5.

    Reply
  • A play to the media by Enda. Last week in the Local Echo paper in Clondlakin it was reported that an elected Labour TD who was a former Councillor for many years received a goodbye gift from the Council ie the State (you & I )of 36,000. This TD along with anyone else has a moral duty to return that money to the State. This should apply to all other TD’s that have recently elected and were former Cllr’s, bear in mind most of them had another job as well when they were Cllr’s

    Reply
    • Paul
      It wasn’t a gift! Please be a little more accurate when your commenting. This sum is a contractual entitlement and goes back to the time that legislation was passed to stop the Dual Mandate.
      Now that we have that little matter of fact out of the way why would you want him to give it back ? Is it jealousy or just because he’s a Public Representative! Why not ask for Lottery winners to donate their cheques to the State ? Actually make it compulsive……..it’s just as logical as asking the T. D. To return his.

      Reply
    • Surely you must have meant to say, give it to charity not back to the state.

      Reply
  • Let the government lead by example and give up their pensions first .

    Reply
    • Declan. What I say in my post is in my opinion 100% correct. Since coming to power, they have set out to make poor people pay an unfair share of the burden,that was imposed on us by wealthy bankers and property developers. A big portion of said bankers and developers move in the same social circles as Cabinet ministers! The same Cabinet Ministers sit in Leinster house making up speeches, designed to make us feel humble and grateful . They told blatant lies, so as to gain power. That in my opinion makes them criminals.

      Reply
    • Last time I checked you’re not a judge in good standing in the Irish Republic, Rodrigo. So you’re in no position to declare anyone a criminal. A clown? From personal experience alone you should be able to assess who is a clown.

      Reply
    • Why thank you VD…..
      I declare Enda kenny a clown! Thank you for your permission.

      Reply
    • Vincent
      Do you not think its morally criminal to pay the pension of a man who helped bring the banking sector to it knees rather than cut spending on special needs assistants, frontline staff and and old age pensioners…Kennys response to Shane Ross question was pathetic…ahh theres not much we can do blah blah blah…i can remember him calling for these peoples heads on plates when he was in opposition… its disgusting and as citizens and taxpayers we have every right to vent our anger

      Reply
    • #Damien- I agree it’s morally reprehensible. I agree we’ve a right to be livid. But it’s lazy to blame the incumbent Government when they weren’t at the helm and we all know the law can’t be applied retrospectively. That’s all I’m saying.

      Reply
    • @Vincent
      I am in no way blaming the present government for the situation we are in but what I am annoyed at is the lethargy in the way the seem to be dealing with this matter…as I said in my previous post, Enda was championing my cause when in opposition and he was elected on that rethoric…but its faded…my biggest fear is that he will approach the bank debt legacy with the same enthusiam.

      Reply
  • Looking forward to getting the letter from Enda/Noonan asking me if I’ll give up even more of my meager income in the forthcoming budget!!

    Reply
  • We are a joke! How about this,we own the banks,the rules have changed come back in here and we will tell you what we will pay!

    Reply
  • Just like our negotiating strategy with Bondholders-Germans-Unions-Churches, How much ? No bother. So much for the change we voted for and longed for. Get back and pay up. What fools.

    Reply
  • Enda Kenny…the luckiest man to be Taoiseach. No brains, no b***s the A.i.b. staff are probably in tears laughing at him.. if it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable

    Reply
  • Give up yer aul sins!

    Reply
    • Steve

      I think you would find that a Constitutional challenge to such a tax would be won and then we would have to pick up those costs as well. Give us another idea but please make them workable.

      Reply
    • tom 06/11/12 #

      Garry
      you are probably correct.

      but where there is a will there is a way. There just isn’t any will or backbone, Yellow is the colour of our leaders.

      We own AIB and it needs to be managed…. if we can’t manage it sell it off and stop bailing it out.

      Reply
  • Journal could you please include Kenny’s reply to the question deputy Ross asked????

    Reply
    • Based on notes I was taking at the time, the Taoiseach discussed the possibility of expanding the role of the cabinet sub-committee on mortgage arrears to perhaps take a wider look at the running of the banking sector. Then he mentioned (for the second time) that AIB had asked people to forfeit their pensions.

      Then Ross spoke again, and then Enda just recapped what he had previously said, adding he hoped that the former AIB staff would “reflect on that as an issue of moral responsibility in these challenged times”.

      Reply
    • Thanks Gavin

      Reply
  • What a joke…. it’s really amateur from AIB …. Why would the Directors even contemplate giving anything back… they have no obligation to… The company should focus on restructuring the business rather that write pointless letters which draw even more attention to past recklesness and imcompetence….. move on… moral case… come on David who are you fooling…

    it isn’t just the directors of AIB during the financial crisis whose triangulate behaviours cover pretty much all the ground between moral turpitude, incompetence and outright criminality. The bank has a history of such behaviour, with its former CEO, Mulcahy and other executives personally involved in wholesale tax evasion in the 80s and 90s (according to the IFSA investigation) and the bank being described as the biggest offender in an industry-wide practice of encouraging thousands of Irish depositors to hide funds in bogus offshore accounts, according to an Irish parliament enquiry in 1999. Talk about Augean stables!

    I’m a long way short of being an anti-bank campaigner, as I make my own living in financial services, including banking. And I appreciate the difficulties of bringing actual court cases for incompetence and moral turpitude, as opposed to criminal behaviour. But it would be helpful if at least some of these former captains of Irish industry were treated more vigorously than merely being asked to consider giving up part of their pension, if not to appease populist sentiment (ie the sentiment of those who suffered AIB’s poor service and high charges for years), then at least “pour encourager les autres”. Mr Duffy’s reported comment that “there was an element of “populism” in the debate”, may signal, rather worryingly, a mindset that just hasn’t grasped the iniquity of the bank’s behaviour for decades. Doesn’t he understand that as a duopolist in a service critical to the Irish economy he simply can’t ignore “populism”?

    Reply
  • pwease pwease pwease pwease..will you give up some money. No..Taoiseach f*** o** will be the reply.

    Reply
  • I wonder if they words “pretty please” were included in the letters.

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  • Waste of time. More pandering to the media. Who in their right mind would give up their pension if asked to do so?

    Reply
  • I love the way that these rich guys are asked to return some of their payoff voluntary in other words you rich guys dont get upset because you dont have to if you dont want its a pity that this does not include the rest of us as well.

    Reply
  • They don’t ask me is it ok to put the interest rate up on my mortgage.

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  • tom 06/11/12 #

    Put AIB up for sale and walk away we can’t manage it or anything else for that matter.
    and STOP bailing AIB out…

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  • Far too little , way too late

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  • “It’s not open to the Minister to change the contractual arrangements that were arrived by a previous administration,”
    ok so by that logic Quinn and his family allegedly took money from their Russian companies by putting in a clause that state if they lost their job they would receive millions. These guys funded their pensions in much the same way as they made the rules as to the amounts etc in the full knowledge that their banks were effectively bankrupt. The judge ruled this to be a cover up, could they not arrive at a similar conclusion here ?

    Reply
  • Nydon 06/11/12 #

    Fattening up of pension arrangements / entitlements to these levels which took place over the Celtic Tiger period was based on an unsustainable bubble for which the general public / state are now being asked to subsidise. On that basis, I don’t think it would be impossible to post-facto designate any entitlement gained, within a defined period, which exceeds a declared threshold, as a delayed return investment rather than a pension (which is what they really were) and set a very high tax rate on that portion of the pension. I’m sure there wouldn’t be much public outcry if the government were to declare that all pension income greater than say ?200k which is based on contributions made between 2001 and 2007 would be subject to 80% tax. That wouldn’t be targeting any particular group of people now would it? It would be treating bankers, judges, politicians,developers, firemen nurses, waiters painters, public private the same.

    Reply
  • If our government, lead by example and cut their wages and pensions by at least 30%. Down to a level, that reflects our situation and in touch with reality. Then they’d have the moral high ground, to call on others to follow suit. Anyone that thinks, they deserve what they’re being paid and defend them are just as bad as they are!

    Reply
  • 99 percent of the comments on this article are of a populist vexatious agenda, devoid of argument and quite frankly embarrassing. Folks, you could elect the Stasi to the Dail and still come a long way short of the heads being demanded here. Thank you Vincent Dolan for your entertaining and persistent effort. On behalf of the Journal reading realists, your contributions are very welcome. An oasis of sense in the middle of a raging populist sea! Stay the course!

    Reply

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