So we don’t know who we’re paying the money to, but we are still able to send the money. Tell you what, just send the cheque to me.

WHo do they write cheque to ?

It’s like as if the government simply couldn’t give a toss! Unbelievable.

How come there is no problem knowing what bank accounts these payments need to go to then?!

of course there is you lying bald ape.
Im sure every bond has an account holders name te be made payable to.
lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies

What??? I usually like to know who I am paying…

And what’s populist is that 5 point plan and let’s not forget the empty promises before election. Kettle pot black I think.

Too many people in Government are bondholders. Simple. Noonan is one.

Yes there is a simple way to find out who the bond holders are,dont pay out and if they bring you to court then you will know who there are.

And now you know why noonan was at a bilderberg meeting.

If the bond holders are un secured then they can’t bring the bank to court

This article appeared in the Irish Times today…scary stuff if its true!

Sir, – Recent soundings suggest that the Government may not get its hoped-for deal on reducing Ireland’s socialised bank debt. But even if such a deal is announced, it will need to be treated with considerable scepticism. Based on the most recent evidence, the “deal” could well prove a sleight of hand that will end up costing us more in the long run.

Why? Because on March 31st Minister for Finance Michael Noonan pulled a stroke. He claimed to have done a deal to ensure that the €3.06 billion promissory note arising from the debts of the dead Anglo Irish Bank, and due for repayment that day, had been deferred. That note was not deferred, it was paid in full. The Government borrowed the money from Nama to do so. Nama later passed this debt onto Bank of Ireland and the Government’s IOU (or sovereign bond) is now held by the bank. Not only was this a scam, it was also a stitch-up because, whereas the promissory note payment could have been cancelled easily, a sovereign bond is “hard” debt that is more difficult to write down.

We learned the full cost of this deal courtesy of last week’s report from the Comptroller and Auditor General: “The level of Government bonds in issue increased in March 2012 when bonds were issued to meet a promissory note payment of €3.06 billion . . . the State issued bonds with a nominal value of €3.46 billion in order to meet the payment. The yield on the bonds and, therefore, the effective interest rate on the repayment of €3.06 billion, is just over 6.8 per cent.” So if Bank of Ireland, which is 85 per cent privately owned, holds onto this bond until it matures (in 2025) then it will make a profit of almost 7 per cent. Once again, public money is being channelled into the hands of private financiers. Some deal.

Much attention in recent days has focused on the alleged “stroke politics” practised by Minister for Health James Reilly regarding the location of primary care centres. But a much bigger stroke is being pulled with the promissory notes and it is one that will wreak infinitely greater and longer-term damage on Irish society. The Anglo: Not Our Debt campaign is demanding an end to these pseudo-deals and cancellation of this odious and illegitimate debt. – Yours, etc,

Can someone tell Mr.Noonan to read the Journal and the comments above. I cant add anything to above because ye are all know Mr. Noonan is talking rubbish.

Absolute lies and nonsense from the same book as “You Wouldn’t Understand”; “Because I’m A Grown Up, That’s Why…”; and “Just, Well…BECAUSE” – seriously, we’re bring held to ransom by clowns working on behalf of crooked accountants. WAKE UP!

probably because nooners is rumoured to be among them

I point blank refuse to believe the bond holders and investors are not known to noonan. The holders are recieving moneys taken from the taxes paid to the exchequer . For all we know this could be funding a Columbian drug cartel looking to launder money.
If we lodge a large amount to our bank account we have to be able to prove where it came from.
All joking aside,what kind of idiots to they think they are dealing with.

They are afraid to ask in case some of their own and/or their friends might be exposed?
Hasn’t one of our politicians already been outed as being a bondholder!

Well done Fine Gael a few years since elected and still paying the bondholders “not another red cent enda said”

Over the decades the people of this Republic have been conditioned to accept crap like this from government ministers. They still feel safe in purveying this unadulterated tripe because their arrogant approach to the electorate has not changed.

So a small group of bankers and businessmen take a gamble by investing money (that wasnt their own in the 1st place) during the boom for no other reason than greed. Then when the whole thing goes belly-up, our beloved “default” government borrow at extortionate rates and expect the people of Ireland to pay it back??

Am I missing anything here??

Why do the people of Ireland follow the likes of Fianna Fail/Gael like a cult when decisions made by these people of behalf of the people of Ireland only reflect the interest of their own parties???

I can’t keep blaming this government all the time cause we know those promises made where horse-sh*t in the first place. The people who voted in these gangsters in suits should take a long hard think the next time elections come around.

another very interesting piece from the wall street journal on the 27th of September:

It’s been two years since Ireland forked over €45 billion to the private creditors of its largest banks. The bank bailout drove Ireland’s deficit to 32% of GDP and played no small role in forcing Dublin to take a bailout of its own from the European Union and International Monetary Fund.

But many of the beneficiaries of that bank bailout were themselves privately owned financial institutions in Germany, France and elsewhere in the EU. The late Brian Lenihan, then Ireland’s Finance Minister, later made it clear that Ireland first guaranteed the banks’ debts, in September 2008, and later paid out on those guarantees in full, under heavy pressure from the European Central Bank. The ECB feared that defaults by the Irish banks could lead to huge losses in larger EU economies and a more generalized banking crisis.

Whether that assessment was accurate at the time, we’ll never know. What we do know is that Ireland, in effect, bailed out foreign banks owed money by Irish ones, and that Irish taxpayers were left with the tab. In fact, they’re still paying—senior unsecured creditors of Allied Irish Banks will receive a further payment of €1 billion this coming Monday, October 1. The bank, now more than 90% state owned, lost €1.4 billion in the first six months of this year, but its bondholders are still being made whole.

For months, Europe’s leadership has talked endlessly about breaking the link between sovereigns and their troubled banks, and are currently in the process of setting up a system that will allow direct bank recapitalizations at the European level.

Ireland, meanwhile, has been left out in the cold. Ireland’s national debt stood at 25% in 2007, but has since ballooned to more than 108%, largely due to the cost of bank recapitalizations and bond repayments. In June, the European Council agreed in principle to find a way to ease this burden on Irish taxpayers. But earlier this week, the Finance Ministers of Germany, Holland and Finland issued a joint statement that said the EU’s bank bailout funds should not be used for pre-existing “problems”—such as Ireland’s.

Ireland made its share of mistakes before and during the financial crisis. But no small part of the current pressure it is under comes directly from the generous treatment of the creditors of its commercial banks. This was done at the behest of the ECB, and largely for the benefit of its neighbors. Irish taxpayers should not have to bear that load alone.

That’s correct Mr. Noonan, just make the cheque out to “Nun on Yokes”. Thanks.

The Bondholders are German, Dutch, French and we must not be told or they won’t give out anymore loans. The Banks run the Country, do you think AIB could do what its doing without fear and we supposedly own it?

I love giving money to people I don’t know.

Im going to hang my Irish flag at half mast for the rest of the year.

Speaking of flags, who here owns one?

Dear Michael Noonan,

The senior bond holders are the Rothschild banking group and their network of proxy entities Goldman Sachs, The Federal Reserve etc.

That is all.

How the hell do we pay them if we don’t know who they are? Do we leave a bag of money in a car park?…. Why dont we just wait to see who picks it up….. This Fianna Gaelabour Party man is yet another disaster in a whole line of disasters….. A taoiseach who cannot debate with anyone, A health minister who is incapable of telling the truth, A whole labour wing of the party that can’t think for themselves, A finance minster who couldnt find his arse if he went looking for it with both hands, A transport minister who is incapable of any thought let alone a creative or unique one, A miniter for reform who hasnt the bottle to face up to any decision, A minister for social welfare who only crawls out when she has an ounce of good news and a government who are so impressed to find themselves in power they still havent realised that the crap they spewed before the election was actually a promise and now they have to actually do something….. This country is in dire shape alright and it has nothing to do with the economy. Thats a seperate problem.

We want to know who is receiving our money and we want to know exactly why they get our money.

With the sole exception of Stephen Donnelly we need a complete clear out of the has beens and wannabes from the Dáil.

We need a new common sense political party to dismantle quangos like the new psr.ie board , Improve efficiency and make expenses vouched and verifiable. We won’t make it out of our current situation where everyone at the top is an aged institutionalised former teacher

We need 165 new TDs in the next election

Just hang on for one minute and imagine a future where they make us so exasperated with their obstructions ,incompetence and downright lies that we just give up.He can’t be this stupid or he wouldn’t be able to dress himself, so this must be deliberate.

obviously money is paid to investment companies.such as Davy’s who buy bonds on behalf of there customers. that’s one confidential layer itself. they recoup the money and dish it out to their various customer accounts. The only reason I would have any interest in who the holders were would be to see if any of them contributed to the crash and owe money to us.

So the Cheques are made out to Mr. Bondholder 1,2 and so on? They must be ghosts, Charlie maybe or the Adams Family? Really, That is how stupid they think we are!

Slightly off point,however,Is Mister Noonan telling us that such is the current system of bond purchase and sales,that it is impossible to identify who buys and who sells bonds.Are the brokers anonymous ? Do they keep records? Are the commission on sales and purchases not subject to taxation? Is there no paper trail at all….I don’t fking think so. He keeps the general public in mushroom mode yet again.

Mr. Bilderberg

This beggars belief, cannot take any thing said by this Government as true, Mr Noonan was the one that said when challenged about reneging on his election promises ” I am trying to save the country for gods sake” . Bringing to mind that old quote ” patriotism,the last refuge of a scoundrel”.

Can only happen in Ireland!

Arb, regardless of what you see the rest of the population understanding, understand this – I don’t claim to know much about politics, but when the bread and butter of my family’s table is being consistently raped by our government to pay unknown bond holders, I understand far too much about this situation that we are in……and honestly I don’t want to. Just stop over-taxing what’s is left of the people working to pay up and elite few that are probably wiping their ass with the several billion we have paid to them in recent months

Noonan went over to Spain in June to get his orders for our next budget . These guys (our so called politicians) puppets for this so called democracy get there orders from the elite banksters who control the world we live in

So we paid €1 billion to bond holders who we cannot identify ? Try getting your social welfare entitlements (€188 per week) and they ask you to produce your life history , despite the fact you paid tax and prsi in this country for over 25 years !!!

Noonan should be one of the character in angry birds game:) pull, release, BANG!

Ill give you some names noonan

Rothchilds
Rockerfellers
Morgan’s
Winsors
DuPont
Van Duyn

But to name but a few

they probably did stephen but in fairness they were lied to. the promises fine gael and labour made bear no recognition to the way the have behaved since they came to power. thats what needs to change in irish politics. parties are allowed to say and promise what they like pre election. there is no accountability after the election. its absolutely crazy

My Blood is Boiling…. Wait a minute we’ll get that money by slashing the child benefit in December, so no need to be annoyed about it.

More nonsense! Can the so called government find out nothing?

Not a thing will be done. Europe runs us. Europe doesnt care about us. We dont even care about ourselves. Look at the article about irish language. Half the country hates it. We are self hating.
Noonan and the government are working for (wether through fear or reward) for the money men . The elites. Its just business. Waking up to the reality is scary and I dont blame people for choosing to be ignorant and lambast those who make comments that deviate from the given script of how the world works.
There is amazing power within the irish people and we are creative and we value freedom and we value social ideals. We are kind, we are funny. We are a good people. We dont deserve this treatment despite idiots voting for Europe.
What do we do? I really dont know. But some ideas on this forum would be great as there is a good balance of Liberals and conservatives here.
First we have to stop moaning and believe that we can do something about it. Its a small island. But people need to realize how real economics work and how real money is actually circulate and by whom. Some lawyers on here need to give their two cents.
We are Irish, we are strong and intelligent.

Great!
If there is no way of verifying who they are then there must be no way of paying them!

Noonan accuses Donnelly of being populist, hes saying the same things you would have said two years ago Michael. The fact that he goes out on to the street to express this shows that Mr Donnelly means what he says, not like you Michael who said those things just to get elected, Noonan you’d run around telling people you were slim with luxurious hair if you thought it would get you in power

It’s a 3 prong approach

The Vatican – religious

The city of London – financial

Washington – military

Release the Vincent!

Even the dogs in the street know…

Where’s Declan Cotter now when you need some support?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jsEZr3s1aBA

Just another traitor lying through his teeth

Are you seriously stating, for the record, that a government cannot acquire this information? How are they paying taxes? How are they getting paid? Are you a f-ing idiot? Do you think we are??

The Americans can trace a college student all the way from the other side of the world. I’m sure one of them will help you figure out your job. Idiot.

AIB owe their creditors money. It is that simple.

Anyone on this forum could have afforded to buy AIB bonds at any stage.
They would now be making money.
Is it resentment at missing out on an opportunity that annoys people?