Not if Israel can build a wall around it, no it won’t!

What about all the ‘anti Christian’ & ‘anti Catholic’ comments, being made daily in the media.
Mr Browne used the words ‘cancer in foreign affairs’ to describe Israel. (I don’t condone his remark).
But I have seen the words – ‘cancer in irish society’ used many times, by media/commentators etc. to describe the Catholic church?
Why is one ok, – but not the other?

Its hard to say Ireland has freedom of speech with Spintalk 106 and state radio RTE giving their interpretation of the news not to mention the breakingspin.ie web site constantly deleating comments that run against their agenda.

I agree with everything on your list as true.
But thats not my point.
Why is OK, to daily villify, curse & rant against ONE group of people/believers, on the media, – but not the other?

(my reply above to Dublin Lad)

84.2% of the Irish population is Roman Catholic. (1) 75.6% of Israelis happen to be Jewish. (2) If I say I disagree with Irelands foreign policy, I am not labeled an anti-catholic yet if I do the same to Israel, I am an anti-semite. Based on those figures, we Irish have more cause to shout racist (and since when is a religion a race?) if someone criticizes our policies than those of the hypocritical Israelis.

1 – http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasecensus2011profile7religionethnicityandirishtravellers/
2- http://www1.cbs.gov.il/www/yarhon/b1_e.htm

@ Dublinlad You completely failed to grasp the essence of Zoe’s point. Next time, try and read the whole paragraph…

Zoe,

I’d imagine that it’s because the Church has had a negative effect on Ireland over the past 100 years. Most other religions go about their business and in a lot of cases are progressive and open to the modern world. The Catholic Church is still locked up in the dark ages, especially it’s teaching of Homosexuals, Contraception, Marriage & Women in general.

Zoe, do you not think people have the right to be furious with the Catholic Church for there crimes against humanity? Or would you prefer people stay silent because it might upset some of the faithful?

While plenty of people of faith are good decent people who use there faith to be better people it certainly is not exclusive to religious folk but that fact doesn’t excuse supporting an organisation with such a terrible and horrific history of abuse.

I detest the institution that is the Catholic Church, I personally think it’s teachings are out of dated, anti-women, anti science, anti-gay and I would also deduce that if the Catholic Church have committed crimes and abuses in first and second world countries which have only recently come to attention just wait for the tsunami of cases from poorer third world countries.

James Patrick Smith – be furious with the ones who are behind these issues, mainly the ones in charge of the Catholic Church. But to condemn the whole church with all its members is indeed wrong and smells of guilt by association. There are a lot of genuine people in the Cath. Church who fight against these wrongs. Maybe their believes are different than yours, but they are disgusted by the crimes of some the church members the same way you are. They don’t deserve to be condemned either for their believes on marriage or abortion (why should they?) or for their membership in the Church (why should they?).

Dublin Lad, & James.
Nobody disputing the harm the church has done, – I can see with what you both are saying.
You keep reverting back to the argument of the Church’s crimes, but if you read above, that is not my point. So I don’t think there is much point in continuing further.
By the way Dublin Lad, you have said, that most religions, -with (of course) the exception of the catholic church- are progressive & open.
I don’t really know if that’s true either!

Zoe,

I was referring specifically to the different religions that operate in Ireland. Take the recent hearing on abortion, most religious representatives , except the reps from Islam & Catholic Church, gave a very opened minded view. Whatever about they do in other counties, here in Ireland, they don’t concern me to much. For that matter, no religion bothers me, however what does bother me is when said religion tries to implant it’s doctrine on the laws of the land, that’s when I start to pay heed.

People bash the Catholic Church over such inhumane crimes and ridiculous claims such as Papal infallibility and the assumption of Mary. Sorry but you cannot just ignore such crimes because of faith.

Hi Vit
Just to clarify I respect the rights of people to practice a faith
(providing it doesn’t promote hate or breaks the laws of the land)

I also support free speech and I completely agree most people of faith are good decent people but by actively supporting an organisation like the Vatican it is endorsing both the good and bad things it’s responsible for.

I’m sorry you can’t have the blinkers on for it’s failings and when something positive happens take them off again.
The Vatican is really in my humble opinion not necessary in order to be religious or spiritual. It is a corrupt organisation the Emeritus Pope has said so himself and he was still infallible at the time!

Anyway I just wanted to respond so you understand I’m not asking people to believe what I believe in or ditch a particular faith for something else. Im simply calling out the Church on it’s own track record.

James Patrick Smith – ok :), thanks for the reply… I am not happy with the way how the structure and hierarchy works either (seems somewhat totalitarian), I am hoping the regular people inside the church are doing something about it… but who knows, maybe it works the same way like in the ‘people – State’ relationship, where it seems that us, the people, don’t do much to stand up for ourselves against the wrongs of the government

Every religion is locked in the dark ages. I cannot understand how an educated society still believes in such drivel.

This was probably a little job by Israelis media watchdog, which monitors media in foreign countries for anything that may shine the light on their activities !

Sure they need to watch Irish media. Anything that will help them forge Irish identifies to commit murders abroad has to help them out.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s attack on Israel as being a “cancerous tumor” , ohh sorry I meant VB.
Well done on the BAI ruling to uphold this compliant.

They should have a word with rte, they report on behalf of our gov continuously, dictating to the nation.

Tell exactly what part of this movement are you opposed to (from Wikipedia’s definition of Zionism)

Zionism … is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1] Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora.[1] Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in central and eastern Europe as a national revival movement, and soon after this most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[2][3][4] Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security.

The complaint came from two Irish people. With traditional Irish surnames, but then again those snnneeeeaaakkkkyyyy “zionists” can’t be trusted.

It a lovely little definition of Zionism you have there (although you’d get an F for sourcing for wikipedia)

Its sound all nice and grand when you don’t consider the people with an equal claim to the land, who are not Jewish and who have occupied the land long before the relatively recent influx of Jews into Palestine.

Kev, time after time I’ve quoted Wikipedia and those in the wrong complain but can’t seem to do any better. Tell me what’s wrong with the definition? Then you can go and correct it.

I can assume from your “get an F” comment that you were fooled by your lecturers into thinking Wikipedia can’t be trusted. Don’t worry it’s just academic snobbery. Ignore them.

The UN carved up the region after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The “Palestinians” never existed, like many made up “nations”. There’s great doubt there’s anyone who can be called Celtic either. As I said in a previous post, there have been Jews, as well as Christians and Muslims, in Jerusalem and the surrounding region continuously for thousands of years. Some times in the majority, sometimes a minority. In the 1800’s the Jews became a majority.

Well William – from that definition that you have quoted..
They oppose Jewish integration with others..
In other words, they openly flaunt their own racism, while crying Anti Semite At anyone who dares criticise them (hypocrisy seems rampant in the case of zionism).

My issue with Zionism? It’s at odds with Judaism. If they are going to base their ideology and claim to the land around the religion then they should at least respect it.. Only their messiah person was able to reform Israel and no blood was to be shed in its reformation, as such there are many Jews who consider Zionism and the state we currently call Israel to be heresy. But please, don’t take my word for it, ask some Torah observing Jews..
Heres some to get you started: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org

We all know the technical History of the existence of Israel. We don’t need the same lecture. Although the UN didn’t exist at the time the Ottoman empire fell, it was held as a British Region after WW1 until the UN begun drafting the boarder after the second world war. If you’re gonna throw facts out, make sure they’re accurate, maybe Wikipedia ain’t the best source for you.

The situation on the ground isn’t as simple as UN recordings and draftings (the Israelis are looking to expand territory past last UN boarder agreements anyway). I can fully sympathies with the mood towards the Jews on the international stage in 1947, everybody must have been obviously shocked with the revelations of the Holocaust at the time. But it simply doesn’t give the international community the permission to find a religious state on the same land as Arab Muslims. I’m not too interested in this “palestine wasn’t a country” argument just because at the time the Palestinians did not have any international body looking after their needs.

Zionism is the racist claim that Jews are entitled to land based on the writings of a Jew 6000 years ago. Are we to consider its philosophy today? Young lads with Religious difference on their side will clash in dirty war, just like we see today. Where have we seen that before? I have a problem with Zionism because it is a Religious influence in polotics, made worse by the fact that its being propagated in a region with a difference set of religious ideals, its unrealistic and messy. It leads to hatred on religious grounds and deaths of innocent people. Hamas are just as bad. But again, like we see in History over again, an oppressed people will turn to the extremists who don’t really represent them. Perhaps secularism is the answer? Zionism certainly is not.

The “Palestinians” are the Arabised people of Palestine, former Christians and some former Jews & Jewish Christians (one town near the border with Israel and The Lebanon had Jewish Palestinians). These people’s converted to Islam and adopted Arab culture in the early middle ages. So essentially Jews and Palestinians’ ancestors were both in Israel before the Romans destroyed the Second Temple (70 AD).

I forgot to mention, not all converted to Islam. About 15% to 20% of Palestinians were Christian before 1947. Most emigrated.

My ancestors were Gallic Pagan before they converted to Christianity. I now have the rightful claim to set up a Pagan State. We will now live in a county that and respects the balance of nature while worshipping the sun (not the newspaper kind). Who cares if we’ve to put up with the odd human sacrifice?

Kev, “We all know the technical History of the existence of Israel.” Do we indeed? You know what everyone knows? I’m far more confident that most people do NOT know the history of the region. I would think most of those that oppose Israel think that the Jews stole the Arab’s land and kicked them out. That’s not what happened though is it?

I have read many accounts from Palestinian refugees in the Gaza strip and the Lebanon. Although many of them exaggerate their experiences, its still very clear that during the war in 1947 thousands of home owners fled their homes to find our later that they could never return. In Lebanon in particular, the Israelis have completely closed the boarder so that Palestinians cannot return to their homes. It would be futile regardless because in many of these cases, homes were stolen by Jewish developers and sold off to Jewish families making their home in the new nation. There is a book called “Pity the Nation” from Robert Fisk, its a must read on the subject. The BBC journalist spoke to thousands of refugees who still hold the original British papers, proving ownership of their land before the establishment of Israel. In this book he follows peoples accounts in Lebanon and travels back to some of the original homes to find Jewish settlers living in them. Although, these settlers were mostly oblivious to who previously owned their house.

So in this way, yes, many thousands of Palestine Muslims and Christians had their property stolen by a private Israeli developers who later sold their stolen goods to settlers in the 40′s and 50′s. Its a major injustice done during war and is still being reinforced by the self proclaimed “only modren civil democracy” in the region.

Kev, can you name any country in the world where people haven’t had their land or houses stolen? Why the focus on Israel then? Is it not based on a hatred of the Jews? A hatred bred into you by an Irish Catholic society that thought Jews killed their god? Jews have had their land and homes stolen many times. Israel was set up to give them their own homeland after a third of all Jews in the world was massacred by European Christians. They were one of the few ethnic races without a homeland.

WOW!!!!!! Hatred of the Jews argument, you are very fresh William. I am an Atheist with a non practising Jewish girlfriend, I have a non practising Jewish uncle who I love to bits. As for practising Jews, I disagree with their religion on the exact same grounds as a disagree with my own mothers Catholic faith. The difference is that this happened in a relative modern time frame, where we are supposed to not fob off war crimes by saying “its war”, learn from the past. You are blind if you cannot see the hypocrisy of the actions of the Israeli, especially considering what their people went through in the past.

The official stance from the Israelis doesn’t even agree with your “Jews have had their land and homes stolen many times”. They acknowledge the injustice and offer compensation to displaced Palestinitans, but the blockade and conditions the Isrealis ask means that most displaced Palestinians cannot return to Israel to claim or would down right refuse to claim compensation because they’d need to claim in Israeli courts, thus recognising the State of Israel. Which you know many Arabs there refuse to do. The Israelis know that.

Kev, WOW! The horrid Israelis offer compensation to those displaced but because they refuse to recognise the right of Israel to exist they can’t claim the offered compensation. Isn’t that terrible? After every war ever side is accused of war crimes, the British in NI, the Allies in Iraq, the US in Vietnam, not to mention the current Syrian, Libyan and Egyptian governments. Don’t you think the Palestinians and their supporters in Iran and Lebanon are guilty of war crimes? You still don’t explain why so many Catholic reared Irish hate Israel. It can’t be because they offer compensation to people who deny their right to exist and therefore won’t take it. Gerry Adams and Co didn’t recognise the UK courts but took the Queens’s shilling after being elected to the UK parliament.

Well if you jump down from you high horse there for a second you will that I have already explained how this compensation is only a gesture in theory, so I might as well have not been offered at all. Why I brought it up is because you were excusing these actions when not even Israel do themselves. Thats why they offer compensation officially (but, again, its no good due to blockade and other objective reasons). So its not of benefit to many of the refugees, their compensation is insulting to these people. Compensation for innocent civilians is very different to Gerry Adams westminister wage. I’m not interested in defending Sinn Fein.

I agree with you, we havent hit that peaceful time on the world stage yet nor will we anytime soon but two wrongs dont make a right, I am disgusted everyday to read what happens at the hands of the yanks, muslim governments including how Hama act on the ground in Gaza against their own population (I’ve already explained how innocent people backed into a corner turn to extremists, it happened to us in Ireland). Why I’m focusing on Israel at the moment is because you brought up why the Zionist policy is not such a bad thing. You are very wrong with that one, its not realistic in todays world (although damage done already). I don’t contest the existence of Israel but they have no interest in obtaining peace today. They are using the UN contested regions to expand into Palestine more and more so that when it eventually comes to peace negotiations they will have more land that they can claim then official boarders are being drafted up, its a policy being exhcuted. Sure, they literally thumbed their noses at the international community for recognising Palestine recently by building more settlements on contested land the following day. Its pathetic!

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but many Irish see this situation as being similar to our history. You’ve probably heard that one lots before. You’re assuming that people dislike Israel because they are Catholic biggots. If thats true (i doubt it is) I can’t speak for them, but don’t throw that one at me, you lose all validity in your argument by accusing me of that bullsh*t.

Kev, if the visceral hatred of Israel it’s not anti-Semitism, what is it based on? It’s hardly the politics of a tiny democratic country in the middle east, surrounded by dictatorships, is it? Do you not admit most Irish were brainwashed in school by the Catholic Church? Were you? Maybe you are in denial.

I just watched a program called “Who do you think you are” with Jerry Springer as the individual whose family history is examined. Both his Jewish grandmothers died in the Holocaust. The film shows Jerry following in the tracks of his grandmother as she was moved from her home, then to a Polish ghetto, then to one of the first extermination camps where she was gassed along with her sister and her husband. The Jews are entitled to their homeland and the people who did little to protect them are obliged to protect them for ever more, now from the world’s major anti-Semitism movement, Islam.

Here’s an interesting comment I came across, “Mein Kampf has been published and, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), was 6th on the Palestinian best-seller list in 1999″

Being Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion, so this helps them silence arguments against the state by labelling criticism anti-Semitic !

There is a fantastic documentary by Israeli Jew Yoav Shamir,about antisemitism and how it is used to silence dissent.It’s called “Defamation” and can be viewed online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation_(film)

Cheers Ru Ní

Also worthy of attention is the book The Holocaust Industry by Norman Finkelstein.

No problem Petr.

There is a great interview with Norman Finkelstein also featured in the documentary.A jewish man,whose parents were killed during the Holocaust and has been labelled an antisemitic himself,go figure ???

Vincent brown is the only show on Irish media where we get some bit of the truth, hence why Enda noonan etc wont come on his show he won’t let then waffle on and they cant answer direct questions..

Keep the good work up. No more waffle!

In fairness, they can’t waffle on his show because he always cuts across them with his own waffle.

In the interests of fairness and balance. What bull. If discussing what science knows about the origins of the universe should there be a requirement to have a Young Earth Creationist present to give the alternative.
These decisions are akin to the Teach the Controversy campaign that is attacking education in the US

The thought of being unfair to Hitler made me laugh out loud!

Isn’t it funny how one man’s “truth” is another man’s lie?

No it isn’t William, objective truth is completely independent of subjectivity (i.e. of whats in someones head). Just because you say it’s so. Doesn’t make it so.

This program was found NOT to be fair and balanced, I believe that this decision was arrived at logically and that their finding are true. Dave, I suspect that it’s your truths are the lies.

Hitler’s not so bad. After all, he killed Hitler.

And history is written by the victors..

‘History is a myth agreed apon’

It sure is brass-rat! But saying it is anti Semitic…

Israel is a disaster for the region. Are you completely off your trolley?

Is fanatical Islamism, dictatorial governments, anti-democratic beliefs, and all the other products of the Muslim religion not a FAR bigger disaster for the region? What has Israel got to do with the state of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia and all the other medieval dictatorships in the region?

The anti Israeli opinions above are so illogical that they must be founded on anti-Semitism.

William. If these guys hold themselves up as the sane, rational democracy, then why are their retaliations so excessive? There’s defending yourself and then there’s being over the top.

If someone tried to stab you and you blew them up – which do you think is worse?

Shanti, isn’t it funny that Israel keeps being accused of overreacting? Your fascist terrorist enemy lobs thousands of missiles into your territory and after showing great restraint you invade and destroy their weapons and that’s an overreaction? If someone tried to stab me I most certainly would take whatever measures I could to stop him including blowing him to smithereens if necessary. I believe Israel may and could be justified in using nuclear weapons to destroy the underground nuclear facility the Iranians are building if that is the only way to destroy it and prevent Iran from building a Uranium or Plutonium bomb with which to annihilate Israel.

The people who feel that their homes were stolen, after years of being kept in an open air prison, retaliate by force. They use whatever they can get their hands on. It’s not right, but you could call them “desperate measures”, the occupiers never showed much interest in hearing them out or showing them any respect.

Israel then retaliate with white phosphorous, bombs, precision military strikes, spraying them with faeces – and continuing to evict them even though the UN says they shouldn’t. They’re hamstrung at every turn by the US standing up for their oppressors.

If, as you say, they have nuclear weapons then why have they refused to sign up to the nuclear arms treaty and permitted inspections like Iran have?

I guess it’s one rule for them and another for anyone else.. But they’re the civilised ones, because they’re a democracy and they have values a bit more similar to our own.
I don’t agree with how they run things in the Arab nations – but I do not hold them up to the same standards because they do not claim to live by them. Therein lies the difference. Israel are supposed to be the good guys but their behaviour is still nowhere near acceptable to me. This is why I disagree with their actions. It doesn’t mean I excuse the other sides behaviour.

Maybe Shanti if you were surrounded by a billion fanatical Muslims who oppose the very ideas of democracy and personal freedom and are intent on your destruction you might have a different attitude. Why are you not criticising the Muslim Palestinians who won the election in the Gaza Strip and celebrated by throwing their enemies, the Muslims Palestinians from the West Bank, to their death from the top of buildings. Do you approve of your friends, Israel’s enemies, demanding women are subservient to men? Why would anyone support such people?

William.
A large chunk of Gazas population are children. The adults have been moved to extremism due to circumstance, it doesn’t excuse it – but when you look at what they are fighting you can begin to appreciate it.

I hold Israel up to a higher standard because they insist that they are better. They are the democracy, the sane ones in a mad corner of the planet.. After all, look at those heathens in the Muslim countries, every one of them is one of those extremists and terrorists that are all over the media. Maybe they should all be rounded up and confined to a certain area, maybe their food should be rationed below their daily needs, maybe they should have access to any goods limited? Sure why don’t we just put them in showers with some industrial strength fumigants “to prevent lice” huh?

No one holds an Islamic country up as a bastion of human rights, we expect certain crazed things from theocracies, look what happened when the church ran here.. But these modern, secular democracies that are so superior to them – perhaps they should behave accordingly?

ALL well said – but sadly many here in Ireland don’t like to hear good points and good sense.

Actually technically “Semitic” refers to a group of languages in the region, which include Hebrew, Phoenican and Arab.. So really the Arabs are Semitic too, but no one cries anti semitism when almost the entire mainstream media equates Islam with terrorism..

Spot on Mark! Fair play.

I spoke at Jewish celebration events and conferences (incl Holocaust Memorial Day events) about anti Jewish sentiment in Ireland and Europe and this ain’t anti Semitic …

Mark — The BAI said it wasn’t anti-Semitic.

Apologies. I mistook Rossiters comments as the BAI’s. Thankfully as Mr Browne is one of a small number of presenters/journalists that stands up for the rights of minorities and groups in Ireland.

Again, this wasn’t anti-semetic, i.e. anti jewish; it was just a badly worded criticism of Israeli foreign policy. So you yourself are conflating criticism of Israel with criticism of the Jewish faith, which is exactly the problem people have with regards to the discourse surrounding this issue.

Spliting hairs…chuck hagel might disagree with you on that one aswell

It’s not splitting hairs at all. I myself would be very critical of Israel’s policy of building settlements that are illegal under international law, the disproportionate response they take to attacks, and especially the conditions that they impose on the people living in the Gaza strip. However, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the Jewish people and their faith, in and of themselves. I met many awesome Jewish people during my time when I lived in the USA, and their contributions to comedy, entertainment, music, and culture in general is huge. So you definitely have to separate the two.

What a simplistic view of history , Could you say the Muslims stole the land from the Indians to create Pakistan ? Or that the Jordanians stole the land from the Palestinians to make Jordan ???

There is no such single place in history as Palestine. If Israel is part of Palestine then so is Syria and Egypt.

Poor analogy with India and Pakistan. Their situation is more akin to us and Northern Ireland as it was partition of a country already in situ for millennia. Israel was created in land in which there hadn’t been a Jewish nation since Roman times.

Mary, there hadn’t been a Palestinian nation either.

PS Mary. Jews have lived in Jerusalem for thousands of years. They nearly always formed part of the population along with Christians and Muslims and in the 19th century the majority. I’m sure parts of Spain were predominately Muslim, should the Spanish Christians now leave?

No one disagrees with Jewish people being able to live in Israel. My concerns are more Israel’s ignorance of its responsibilities as an occupying power and extreme unwillingness to grant citizenship based on religion.

I don’t think the Israelis should have to leave – but nor should the Palestinians.

What utter nonsense.

Keith FFS stop. His remark towards Israel is correct. Their record is a disgrace. Their only saving grace is that their enemies are just as bad.

Israel is not a democracy. No democracy would discriminate directly against 20% of its citizens. The right of the return law, on which the state of Israel is founded, and the family reunification laws are two examples of this. For a full list see http://adalah.org/upfiles/Christian%20Aid%20Report%20December%202010%20FINAL(1).pdf

No, he just tells the plain truth which seems extreme because it’s so rare. Fair play to him, we need more like him.

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it, it’s responsibility and trying to not become some American style talk show host ,where one can say anything no matter how insane or untrue it is.

He wasn’t anti Semitic, but it was out of context and Vinb loves to get his digs in at Israel. That is why the BAI found against him.

Can anyone name some Muslim countries where there is freedom of speech, worship, indeed any basic freedoms?

Who decides if one’s speech is ‘responsible’? Dodgy logic there.

JaymiIreland — Are you behind the FB group that calls for The Journal to censor comments critical of Israel?

No I am not, What group are you on about ?

The BAI did not find VBs comment to be anti-semitic and they did not object to what he said. They upheld the complaint based on relevance to the topic being discussed and balance to same.

Don’t know where you went to school willie, but having a problem with israel is not the same as hating jews. But we both know that, don’t we??

Who hates Jews William? I don’t, and none of the Jews I’ve ever met had anything positive to say about Israel’s actions either – I guess they’re “self hating Jews” right?

WHAT? I’m not Jewish, but am of Jewish descent (mum’s family converted) and while I disagree with the Israeli government on many foreign policy issues (as do Israeli and non-Israeli Jews), the more I’ve been exposed to reform Judaism, the more I’ve been impressed by the culture of academic discussion, progressive views of women and religion and consideration of social responsibility. But apparently that’s all invalidated?

What a load of nonsense. What about the countless anti-Zionist Jews in the world. What schools did they get brainwashed in?

Jammy, I went to a Christian Brothers School, that great institution of brainwashing. “Do we both know that?” If you are brainwashed as a child into thinking that these horrible Jews tortured to death your God, is that not the basis of an ingrained hatred? I read Mein Kampf to try and see what was the basis of Hitler’s hatred of the Jews and while he called them “rats”, I couldn’t finish the turgid piece of crap and still don’t know the reason he killed 6,000,000 of them. I do know Europe had anti-Semitism as a constant underlying feature for centuries. I believe that many so called liberal people who side with fanatical extremist Muslims, that under normal circumstances they would despise, and oppose a democratic nation set up by the UN must just like Hitler have some reason for hating them.

Luc, there are Irish people who despise the Catholic Irish, there are English people who despise the Queen, so there are Jews or ex-Jews who support the Iranian Fascists who want to wipe out Israel. I can’t imagine there’s many though.