The black marketeers should not be destroying Irish businesses as this is what the government gets paid for.
As a veteran of the 80′s recession, I find it mind boggling that wheel has to be reinvented with every crisis.
Initially, the “solution” to the crisis is for government to increase the burden of taxation on the economy. This invariably results in swelling the black economy, reduced exchequer revenues and more unemployment.
It is not until this is brought to their attention (same as last crisis), does government get out of the way and allow the economy to grow.
Last year Irelands fledging bio-fuel industry died on it’s feet due to excessive regulation and taxation. Now diesel laundering plants are being discovered on a weekly basis. This isn’t rocket science.

Sean O’Keefe and honest people like him are the backbone of the economy. There is little point in explaining this to tax cheats because they are incapable of understanding even the basics of what is required to run a country with a humanitarian outlook.

600 fish farm licence applications remain unprocessed at the Department of Agriculture. Potentially thousands of new jobs.
When individuals are prevented developing opportunities in the “legitimate” economy, they will seize opportunities in the black economy.
http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=16407

@Patrick Lyons – Under your Facebook ‘Activities & Interests’ you have “Dear Minister Gormley, I won’t be paying water charges”. Can you tell me what makes you immune from your own criticism?

On an almost daily basis we read new reports of cigarette, alcohol & fuel smuggling/laundering operations. It’s no coincidence that these are three highly taxed & regulated products in the economy. Now, we could say that the massive increase in “black markets” for these products are harming similar compliant businesses, but the increase in black market activity is largely a result of bad fiscal policy. Black-market competition may be a proximate cause of compliant business losses, but government policy is the ultimate cause. It’s time for the government to re-think their taxation policies.

“Earlier this year, Ireland’s Office of Revenue Commissioners made a shock discovery, albeit one which sounds slightly dull when put in the language of economics. They found that the price elasticity of cigarettes in Ireland is -3.6, which is to say that a 10% increase in price reduces sales by 36%. This came as a surprise because cigarettes—being notoriously addictive—are usually thought to have a consumption elasticity of less than -1.0, whereas a price elasticity of -3.6 implies that smokers are more price sensitive than people who buy jewellery, DVDs and toothpicks. This struck them as rather counterintuitive, to say the least.
Something was clearly up, and what had been going up was smuggling. Since 2002, the price of cigarettes has risen by 40% in real terms to 8.55 euros a pack and the black market has swollen accordingly. The -3.6 price elasticity figure only took into account legal sales, which have indeed declined significantly. The number of people smoking, however, has not. Smuggled snouts and privately imported baccy have made up the difference.”
Adam Smith Institute

Yes, but all he did was change a washer for that €100.

You still know it’s wrong though – you can’t deny that. You also know that the legitimate above board plumber is being punished for complying.

I get your point though – the system ACTIVELY encourages it.

Rob and On The Dole I’ve just forwarded your IP addresses to Revenue.ie
Best of luck with that .

Actually, they are doing something about it…. they’re encouraging it – by raising the costs of things like cigarettes under the guise of health reasons.

In truth, if taxes were set correctly they would have the right return on the taxed items.

I know people will jump on this as supporting the reduction of taxes on cigarettes but look at the truth of it. €1.2bn is the income from tobacco products. This report is not limited to tobacco but it’s pretty obvious that it’s going to be a major area.

Far better to address the reasons for smoking and the damage it causes than to just make it so that those with money can smoke and those without money can smoke black market tobacco.

P.S. I know it’s about more than tobacco…. I’m focusing on a significant area that also supports organised crime in a big way.

@Peeedoff……….and no warranty should it go wrong. Your saving of €30 could cost you a lot more in the long run given lack of receipt etc. I run my own small business, insure my work, pay my taxes and my own accident/illness insurance should I ever come a cropper on your property. I’m under increasing pressure to compete with cowboyism but I refuse to do so. If I can’t cover the cost of running a legitimate, professional business then I will close it down.

Let’s be honest – the repair guy who won’t charge vat and provide no paper trail is usually the guy you know through someone and won’t always leave you hanging. I’m not saying this to encourage that behaviour – but it’s a reality.

This warranty argument is weighed up in the customer’s mind – is it worth €30? Often the answer is going to be no.

It’s a matter of economics, if a person only has €60 to repair the washing machine and can’t afford the €90+Vat then it’s a simple choice. I am not saying it’s the right choice, but there are a lot of people living in this country at the moment with very little left over for repairs or various other services.

@Anthony, the real blame here is not the person who pays for or does the job, but the current situation where the person will go with what they can afford. Sure it really isn’t fair on your business, but economic reality to the person paying, or the person trying do the work to pay his food/esb or other bills.

The Govt are piling on more & more taxes, charges & cuts etc, the cost of doing business legitimately is prohibitive as well. So the real solution here is for the Govt to actually step up to the plate, make it cheaper for legit businesses, create a positive economy and so on, but their current policies will lead to the opposite of more Austerity with more business failing because of it….all down to the EU/Euro heading into the toilet, along with us being crippled with Bailout repayments for the banks….!!!

It’s a perfect storm, and the black market is the only winner….!!!

Sean that’s bill…the fledgling bio fuel industry has collapsed all over the world because food prices went up and mad that sector more profitable….you’re waffling again.

Sean you’re waffling again. The so called fledgling bio fuel industry collapsed all over the world because food prices went up and it became more lucrative to be there than in the ethanol business. That has nothing to do with the Irish Government.

“THE Irish biofuels industry died on Jan 1, 2011 when a government tax relief scheme designed to foster the sector was replaced with one which has completely failed to do so. As a result, almost all of the country’s bioethanol, biodiesel, and oil-crushing plants were switched off.

Tom Bruton, president of the Irish Bioenergy Association (IrBEA) says in all, eight facilities built between 2005 and 2008 — often with grant aid — were shut down just over 16 months ago. ”
Irish Examiner, 15 May 2012

As you say Sean, the industry only worked because of a tax relief scheme. I call that a scam. Taking money from the taxpayer’s pocket to buy votes.

Could we all stop agreeing with Income tax? How far would that get us?

Incidentally, Brendan this isn’t tax avoidance. This is tax evasion.

Great comment, and it just shows that the psychology at work is the same for large and minor fraud e.g. ‘why should I pay up if I can get away with it?’ and feck the consequences. Put it bluntly, don’t pay what you owe if you are comfortable with people suffering or dying due to lack of services. Just because others get away with it doesn’t mean its ok that you do too.

Sorry, Donncha, are you addressing me?

Well it seems like Quinn and all those bankers can get out of their obligations by saying they can disagree with them. Why not Joe Soap?

There is no way rob speaks for socialists. Taxation is the only current way of redistributing wealth. Mind you it is not being used in this way with the lower paid paye workers subsidising the tax evading and avoiding well off. Those avoiding and evading tax should be targeted. As I said as a socialist I would happily shop rob the thieving git whilst raising the taxes of the super rich Like bono etc who find ways of avoiding paying their dues. The paye classes need to stand up and say no more Irish society needs to see both tax avoidance and evasion as not only mortally reprehensible but illegal we need to close loopholes and pursue those that don’t pay their fair share. Why should the lower and middle paye earners subsidise everyone else

@ Betty -Lou: I agree, Rob is in now way a socialist. But he’s been playing the left-wing socialist card for quite a while. I wasn’t slagging off socialists, I was slagging off people who pick and choose whatever fragments of political ideology that look pretty, without have any unified overview.
I mightn’t fully agree with your politics, but I very much respect that you openly state that taxation is the way to redistribute wealth. You’re right of course. But there’s too much fake left-wing banter that claims they can lower tax, increase social services and somehow promote economic growth at the same time. It’s these people who deserve to have the holes in their arguments pointed out to them at every opportunity.

There is no way rob speaks for socialists

However, Rob claims to do so.

JTHM is on the money, these have been happy times. Last week Tim was extolling his new tax regime to tackle those filthy rich people earning over 80K (although that’s not what most of us would refer to as filthy rich), citing figures from the OECD which turned out, on examination of figures from the OECD to be actually based on a short press story from 2006 and from an OECD paper that made no reference to Ireland whatsoever. On closer examination and questioning, it was discovered that Tim would not say whether his magical new regime would affect him negatively in any way. Tim’s regime, it turns out, was to tax the moderately well off in order to protect the non-working.

Today, Rob, “Everyone else should pay more tax because I ain’t gonna!”

Both of them, shooting themselves and their arguments in the foot.

Now, Mr “On the dole”, I’m not so sure to tar him with quite the same brush. He says he’s not working and that the system is making it so hard for him to work that it’s barely worth his own effort. But he does want to do some work, he’s tempted to go cash in hand, but he hasn’t said that he has. If he has then he’s a Robbite and to tarred with the very same brush.

We all know, it seems, someone on welfare who stays there because it’s better for them financially than working. Everyone seems to know at least one couple or family or lone person like that. When they get mentioned people go, “Oh they aren’t all like that, many are genuinely struggling, that’s the exception.” But if everyone knows someone like that either it’s a pretty big exception or they all know the same 20 or so people which, even in Ireland, seems unlikely.

I’ve juggled some figures and going on the current unemployment rate and the rate during the tiger, I’m happy to put forward a figure of 100,000. Now let’s say I’m wrong. Let’s say it’s half that. 50,000 people long term and permanently unemployed and unwilling to work and barely having ever worked.

Now consider basic unemployment, and the extras that such people know to get from the system. Let’s put an annual figure of around 10K a head on that. I think that even that’s a reserved estimate.

That’s half a billion euros. Per year. Money in for nothing out.

Now you may say, compared to the deficit that’s a drop in the ocean, a tree in the forest. But the ocean is made of drops and the forest is made of trees.

So let’s get something out of this drop, let this tree bear fruit.

Let them work. Even if it’s just 2 or 3 days a week. Even if it’s just trimming hedges or fixing potholes or picking up litter or painting the houses of poor defenceless old women. As long as they are doing something. And make it easier for someone on welfare to take themselves off to contribute and pay in for a couple of days if they can. Better that than have them become Rob.

“redistributing wealth” is a euphemism for theft.

Now the grammar police o what am I to do !!!! Again LMAO ….

I hope the revenue and social welfare trace you and rob I personally will face at your trial. Honest working paye workers are sick to the teeth of arrogant f….ers like you rubbing our noses in your dishonesty whilst having the nerve to complain about ps workers who pay their taxes and look after you spongers. If I could trace you I would report you too

@ Betty what exactly would you report me for ???? Seriously now ?? WHAT .

Being a bollocks…

At whose expense? Better, perhaps that he live in penury.

Rob, what about the roads, schools, health care they you use on a daily basis but you don’t actually put money towards?

Next time you bitch and moan about something being closed and not getting funding then think about people like you that ensure that the government has less money to do what it needs to do.

Lets hope one of these days revenue catches up with you, perhaps somebody will report you one of these days.

Barry,

I don’t care what you think and I hold my cards close to my chest. Be a sheep to the government and a slave. That’s why they are screwing you. It has nothing to do with funding services. OUR DEFICIT SPIKED TO 32% OF GDP TO BAIL OUT BANKS. Further, our bloated public sector is paid 30% higher than the Eurozone average. Ministers gold plated pensions, golden handshakes, the list goes on.

The gov’t is there to serve people – not the other way round.

Yes you are, you and the likes of you are the very crowd that are roaring and whining about the state of the road in front of your house, but you want everyone else’s except you to pay for it. Where would the money come for if everyone was like you.

I’m with you rob.. the amount of shit you have to go through to sign off for two days work is unreal … And then employers don’t want you because your not as cheap as someone who’s doing doing the double !! Now my question is this !!! Who is worse the employer who’s struggling or the unemployed who’s struggling ??? It’s very easy to criticise ….

Absolutely unbelievable, you pay no tax for work you do, you’re probably collecting unemployment benefit also. so you’re screwing the system twice and to top it off you have the gall to mouth off about the public sector workers.
True they may have faults in some regards but each and every one of them pays PAYE, USC, Levys etc at least they are contributing to our economy.
I am not a public service worker but I do contribute to society by paying tax.

Yes you should feel guilty about this. You are benefitting from my tax payments without contributing something yourself. Shame on you.

Our Govt are complicit in this with their Expenses & Perks (e.g. Computer Tablets) all paid for by the taxpayer. Not to mention their overpaid slaraies. Giving Advisors pay rises over their own caps. Semi state senior managers on slaries above the Govts pay caps.

As you say Rob, overinflated pay & pensions for our civil servants, Local Councillors & National Govt TD’s, Ministers, etc Pay. Overpaying the CS, huge pensions, and even giving them increments (Pay rises). Paying Unsecured gamblng bondholders which the Spanish are now looking at burning.

It’s a mess from the top down, but the self serving elite will not lead by example, they will ensure their nests are feathered first. Then make it all worse for business by increasing Austerity, thereby increasing the Black Economy further.

The Govt Meanderthals are stuck on a roundabout and cannot come up with any constructive ideas to alleviate the situation…!!!

@pee – so you are in favour of people withholding tax and or claiming dole while working?

“Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?”

That’s between you, your conscience and your local revenue office.

And Rob when you reach 66 or 68 or whatever the retirement age for you is and you try and get your pension (which you probably think you are “entitled” to) only to be told Oh we have no record of you ever working so I am sorry no contributory pension for you, Instead here is a load of forms to fill in so that we can assess your means so that we can decide if you should get a non contributory pension? Short term view my dear man!

Rob, you’re a parasite.

Nice one Rob. (great name by the way) – you are just the same as the bankers etc. that you blame. You are corrupt, fraudulent, selfish and hopefully someday, a criminal. Thanks a bunch

@ on the dole. I’ve noticed your grammar,punctuation and spelling has improved dramatically in the last few weeks. Have you gone back to school or just stopped trolling?

I agree it’s too complicated to be on benefits and do a day or two’s work every now and then. I know someone who is a full time mature student who tried to do this and told the welfare who proceeded to cut all her benefits and and tell her that she had told them she was back working. It was maybe 2 nights at concerts every month. It’s this kind of incompetence that encourages benefit fraud. One of the biggest advantages of working full time is not having to deal with these clowns. I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone screwing the state because they’re screwing me too but we need to get our house in order and sort out the idiots working in our welfare offices.

You selfish b…t…d. You and your ilk are the cause of why people like me and everyother paye worker has to pay such high taxes. Who do you thing pays for your children to be educated or the roads you drive on or the health service etc. jail is too good for you. It’s your type that gives out about people on the dole as sponger you are the sponger.

Why am I paying increases taxes to cover tax shortfall from people like you Rob? Are you drawing the dole too? I don’t mind if they take some of my tax if they use it to lock you up.

What about the fu#%*ng roads what’s the car tax for the household charge what’s that for the roads have been built by Europe this is more from the government wanting people to do there dirty work instead of burning the bond holders tax the rich earning over 150000 a year more they go after the small stuff don’t forget there only guessing about the figure

live in a “selfish” house and I dont have stones in here. I have cash though. I am willing, out of pity, to throw some bucks to those poor PAYE people.

Rob, you don’t hold your cards as close to your chest as you might think. You see every time you post a message on a social network site your post is tied directly to the IP address of the connection you post from and possibly also the MAC address of the device you use to post the message. You should be more careful when bragging about your criminal activities in future, it could, hopefully, land you in a lot of hot water.