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Dublin: 10 °C Thursday 20 June, 2013

Catholic church preparing for priestless parishes

The Irish Catholic newspaper has reported that Catholic bishops are drawing up radical new plans for laypeople-led Sunday services.

Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH in Ireland is laying down plans for parishes that may be left without a priest as the number of clergymen continues to decline.

According to an exclusive report in The Irish Catholic newspaper, bishops are drawing up proposals for parishes to hold Sunday services led by laypeople for the first time.

Deputy Editor Michael Kelly says the problem in larger parishes will become more acute in future as churches who used to have a number of priests will be left with just one. “As the number of priests continues to decline and faced with an increasingly older age profile, Church leaders are being forced to take radical action that just a few years ago would have seemed unthinkable.”

Citing sources, the newspaper said the matter is to be discussed at a meeting of the church’s hierachy in Maynooth in October. Prior to that, a discussion document which will set out ideas for what parishioners can do when there is no priest to say Mass will be circulated to senior leaders.

Laypeople will be expected to take a lead role but married deacons, eight of whom have already been ordained, will co-ordinate liturgies in the absence of a priest.

Nun-led ‘Mass’

Today’s report comes after it emerged that a nun was not granted permission to lead a communion service at a county Wicklow parish last weekend.

RTÉ’s Liveline reported that a religious sister led a liturgy, preached a homily and distributed Holy Communion after a priest failed to turn up for the Sunday evening mass in Blessington. One listener described the celebration as “absolutely lovely and very moving”.

A spokesperson for Archbishop Diarmuid Martin told The Irish Catholic that the liturgy in Blessington was “unprecedented” and described it as a “one-off event”.

She confirmed that for Sunday celebrations to take place in the absence of a priest, the explicit permission of the archbishop ought to have been sought.

Such services are commonplace in parts of continental Europe where the vocations crisis has left many parishes without priests. However, Church leaders in Ireland have been reluctant to adopt the plan, seeing it as a last resort.

Exceptional circumstances

It is understood Irish bishops are keen that the term ‘communion service’ is not used to avoid confusion among parishioners who may think they are attending Mass.

It will also be made clear that such services should only happen in exceptional circumstances where there is no possibility of getting a priest. While the hierarchy will make provision for services with Communion on a Sunday, it is understood that weekday celebrations with the distribution of Holy Communion will not be sanctioned. Instead, parishioners will be trained to lead services with readings from the Scriptures.

Church leaders are increasingly faced with the dilemma of what to do when there is no priest to celebrate Mass. The average age of priests in Irish parishes is 64 and as scores retire each year, just a handful of newly-ordained men are available to take their place. This compares to the 1960s and 1970s when a newly-ordained Irish priest would have to spend the first few years of his priesthood abroad, having no hope of securing a vacancy at home.

The Irish bishops would have to apply to the Vatican for the plans to be approved, something that the Holy See has already done for several other countries including France, Belgium, the United States and Australia.

The Irish Catholic is out today.

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Comments (81 Comments)

  • Time to allow married and women priests.

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  • Will female parishioners be allowed to assume the role of deacon in this instance? If not, why not?

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  • So, in other words they are allowing women priests but are trying to save face by not admitting that they are priests.

    What a moronic organisation, Catholicism is dying a slow death in this country and in my opinion they brought it on themselves. They have been given multiple chances to come out with their hands up, show, a little humility and come down like a ton of bricks on abusers.

    The reality is nothing has changed. Brady (an abuser enabler) is still sitting in a position of power (in religious terms). The Vatican still looks on at abuse with a crass and condescending attitude.

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  • I wonder if they have similar plans for when people just stop attending.

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  • Would you believe my housemate has left to go and join the priesthood!! He’s only 32

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  • Smiley 23/08/12 #

    Serious question: when you go to mass, why do you get given the wafer but not the wine? At other churches parishioners are given wine and wafer.

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  • They won’t die out, they won’t let it happen, you’ll see in about 15 years time when the older priests have mostly passed away, a RAPID about turn on women priests, married Priests, bringing priests in from Africa etc

    Hypocrites the lot of them

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  • The beginning of the end, praise the lord!

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  • It looks like the change they have been forbidding and ranting about will become inevitable. If it is an obligation to attend mass on a Sunday surely it’s the church’s obligation to make that possible for the congregation….I will watch with interest how they tackle this one!

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  • karma!

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  • Somehow the church thinks that it moves a different speed to us mere mortals, especially the church leadership. They will be shown to be the fools they are.

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  • A secularist is someone who believes that personal belief should be just that and that the State should be entirely separate from any Religion. Our constitution used to make special mention of the Catholic church and we were therefore not a true Republic. We still have 95% of schools run by church boards and while this is changing slowly, I would like to see it change drastically.

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    • You’ll have quite the wait Simon. 84% of Irish people chose to regard themselves as Roman Catholic when completing the 2011 census form.
      While there may be a ‘crisis of faith’, or a reluctance to adhere to the diktats of Roman Church dogma, there appears to be no reluctance to continue to associate with the ‘idea’ of being Roman Catholic.

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    • M 23/08/12 #

      Of that 84%, how many are, by choice, actively following the faith, living by the rules, attending mass etc. and not just doing it simply because their parents joined them up to this club before they were even old enough to focus their own eye balls?
      I “came out” as an atheist when I was 28, I am now 31. As I was raised in a catholic home, for those first 28 years I would have ticked the catholic box too because that’s what us Irish do isn’t it, “go along to get along” for fear of being singled out as different.
      Also, since our right to defect from the church has been revoked I really doubt there is any way to accurately count the true number of catholics out there.

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    • Your right to defect from the Roman Catholic Church has not being revoked. Catholic priests were instructed by Rome not to cooperate with organizations like the Count me Out Website which facilitated people wishing to detach. You can still visit your childhood parish and request in writing that records of your Catholicism be struck out. In any case Government policy in relation to religious influence on society is not based on parish records but on census results.

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  • Women Priests anyone?

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  • sooner the lot disappears the better!

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  • Kevin, the Pope was voted in by falable men for a myriad of reasons, many of which were papal politics. I know any attempts of rationalisation or historic reference will be simply met with the all encompassing retort of “faith” but just try to stand outside your mindset.

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  • Emmie 23/08/12 #

    About time. The catholic church in this country is a disgrace to Christianity. No one goes to their mass because no one has a clue what is going on. I go to a non denominal Christian church where the music is brilliant, the teaching is fresh and the people are fun an friendly.

    The way church was always meant to be.

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    • I have not been to mass in a long long time, but I have to agree with you Emmie I’ve always maintained that if the church was less formal the numbers would rise and people would keep their faith. The music I;’ve heard coming from some of the pop up churches around Dublin is very very good and makes me want to attend not to go back to practising my faith, but purely for the enjoyment of it. Well said.

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  • But who will brain wash the children if the island?

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  • Children of Ireland welcome decision.

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  • A classic case of making it up as they go along.

    It appears they’d nearly let their club go under rather than treat women as equals. The organisation is in crisis, falling numbers, not enough priests and the men in the purple dresses complain that a lady who decided to take the bull by the horns and chair a praying group with like minded people should have called them first.

    You couldn’t make it up. There’s always a new way for this group to alienate followers. Numbers are falling and will continue to do so.

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  • Resel 23/08/12 #

    And when they are no lay people?

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  • LeeKelly 23/08/12 #

    I’m sure the empty church benches won’t particularly notice.

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  • I am delighted that the church are being so conservative and regressive. It makes people stop and think. They are doing a better job than any secularist could.

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  • They’ll be getting the African missionaries in to shout mass

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  • Julie 23/08/12 #

    Change is imminent! There’s no other way around it! I hope they let people in the community say mass! I’d go to support the change!

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  • The catholic church has always been about 20 years behind the times. Eventually they will change their mind and there will be married & women priests. By then it won’t really matter.
    Muslims will have taken over the world as everybody I’d afraid to say anything to offend them now and their ultimate goal is to convert the western world.

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  • They could always import a few priests from Africa, that seems to be the way things are going.

    Time was when we sent priests to Africa to educate the heathen natives, now that seems to be reversing.

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  • Sorry guys but i tend to disagree with you all. While an avid secularist i have to say that expecting the Church to change is completely unfair. While many of you read this and are about to launch into a torrent of comments hear me out. The church is founded on the basic tenants of the disciples, the Bible and the Bile now to go back on their word or Papal infallibility would in fact be a paradox could it not. Benedict spoke out about women becoming Priests and married people and viciously chastised it comparing it with some pretty nasty things. However we should not expect the Church to change for us, that’s contrary to the teachings.

    Just because modern social values and civil rights have changed to be more liberal does not mean that the “word of god” should change to match it. If in fact there is a god and there is a higher power, the bible is all true and the pope really is infallible which as a catholic you really should sort of believe in. What right do we have to ask them to change to meet our modern standards. Do the standards of god change? Does god’s moral compass (i know old testament new testament argument) change to fit us ? No we must change to fit it and listen to what they have to say with reverence and respect.

    Now as an Irish man, and an active activist on the issue of religion i have to say that while we should accept that, this is church doctrine we do not under any circumstances have to agree with it go to mass or have it shoved down our throats.

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    • Hmmm yeah. I kind of hope they don’t change. They’ll die out sooner that way.

      “active activist”? lol

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    • I suppose the problem is that change will be forced upon them by a simple lack of supply of the basic requirement of priests to say Mass. The church will have no choice but to do something unusual to combat this issue which is only going to get worse as more priests retire.
      Incidentally, re the infallibility of the pope, I remember being thrown out of religion class for heresy because I said infallibility was ridiculous as the pope was, in fact, a human and therefore, fallible. My opinion was strongly discouraged…better than being burnt at the stake I suppose.

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    • Nathan, I really can’t tell if what you wrote was tongue in cheek. Your either a comedic genius or someone who has never actually read the discombobulated rantings of the Bible.

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    • Noticed that sorry im studying for a law exam right now your all distracting me. :) The concept of the Church or religion ever dying out is not really plausible new religions pop up all the time the Catholic Church may well collapse but a new concept will just pop up from the ashes as has happened time and time immemorial.

      Maybe they will die out however in ireland especially a Secular constitution and Legislature are key to the future of this country and will help stop this growing bitter divide between religious folk and the more somewhat vocally aggressive Atheist Folk. We need a middle ground.

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    • Nathan, you don’t understand Papal infallibility.

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    • Simon trust me i do not agree with the church nor its teachings. Also i have read, studied, written on and debated on the Bible many a time. It means a huge amount the the western world. Its simply for readership and influence the greatest book ever written. Nonsense filled but many good points. I am not defending the church but i will not take a militant point of view against it. When most of its members are good honest people.

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    • “If in fact there is a god, then the bible is all true and the pope really is infallible” – surely that’s the non sequitur of the year. If there is a god, then all of the worlds thousands of religions, existing, extinct and as yet uninvented have a chance of being correct. It’s arrogant and ignorant to assume there are only two possibilities: that there is no god, or that the catholic story is correct.

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    • As Roman Catholics, we believe that the Pope is infallible on spiritual matters. If the Pope decides tomorrow that gays are welcome in the church and that women should attain the same status as men within the church then that would be a case of God speaking through his representative on Earth and giving us new orders.

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    • Active activists! They are the ones that are very active aren’t they?

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    • Yes Nathan. However … The Church does adapt and change (however it may present itself). It does alter according to the times and culture it is in…. Yes we have no right to call it to change but change it will (this ability to change ensures its continuation).

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    • It seems belief in papal infallibility was only made mandatory for Catholics in around 1870. Prior to that, the following far more reasonable approach was the position of the Irish bishops:

      “The Catholics of Ireland not only do not believe, but they declare upon oath … that it is not an article of the Catholic faith, neither are they required to believe, that the Pope is infallible, and that they do not hold themselves ‘bound to obey any order in its own nature immoral’, though the Pope or any ecclesiastical power should issue or direct such an order; but, on the contrary, that it would be sinful in them to pay any respect or obedience thereto”

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    • @kevin i actually laughed out loud at that

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  • Hi Sinead I just sent you an email. Best of luck hope it helps

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  • It’s great to hear about A young man joining the priesthood, it’s a wonderful vocation. As a devout catholic I just wanted to share a few points with you all, it’s a sad day to see that Ireland may have no priests in some areas but I cannot see it coming to that.
    In my parish we have daily mass at 7:30 and 10 am which are both well attended, our Sunday masses are thronged, we are very blessed.
    I understand that many think the fact that women cannot become priests is inequality but this cannot and will not change as the Church cannot just change its doctrine as it was laid down by Jesus Christ.
    If women could become priests I would sign up- but I understand that this is not what Jesus deigned.
    At the last supper, Jesus established his church, there were his 12 disciples present- no women. His own Mother was not present nor was she given the opportunity to become a priest, if Jesus wished for women to pursue this roll, Mary would have been the first.
    In today’s society, the modern world and way of thinking is no longer in line with the teaching of the Church, one who follows the churches teaching is like an alien in society which has moved on.
    True, those who do not believe in Jesus or God will not understand the treasure hidden in His Church, the joy of being obedient, the peace in prayer and the sacraments. Many of my friends think I’m crazy- wasting my life as I fast and pray. But I’m happy.
    People are angry with the Church because men who were supposed to be full of love for Gods children abused this trust in indescribable cruelty and destroyed lives. The Church is trying to move on, they pray for the victims of this abuse, while hanging its head in shame that this took place within its realms.
    Jesus will deal with these offenders- in it all His sacred heart was severely torn to see those who represent him do these things to his beloved children. But the problem is that people don’t believe in the devil- they think he is a myth. Any evil that is done is by his hand- his venom has infiltrated all areas of society and the world.
    Think about it- in all movies, programmes, books it’s goodies versus baddies- it is reality. That’s my opinion and I hope not to upset anyone, Mary.

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  • There is a very understandable schadenfreude in many posts. But let’s be real… The Church has survived many crises, some worse than the current one… It is unlikely the wished for demise will happen.
    What is good tho… is that its monopoly on influencing the morality of the day has been broken… Other voices are now being heeded (though not all for our good… How destructive was the roar of the tiger and yet who wasn’t lured by it).
    The church’s voice may be softer and less obvious than before but it won’t ever be fully drowned out… Sorry folks but it’s capacity to reinvent itself and it’s embeddedness in our psyche means it ‘won’t simply go away’ however much many contributors may wish for it.
    And here’s my twist… I wouldn’t want it to…. Despite its dogmatic, controlling, judgemental tendencies, it’s kernel message… The divine within, the need to be the voice for the voiceless, the equal dignity of all , it’s critique of modernity etc…all need expression.. and they are best placed for this role.
    Also have some pity for the believers for whom the thought of no Mass is a source of anguish. Some of the most inspiring people I know occupy church pews at least weekly.

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  • amen

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