I don’t think it did.

I’d like to say “fuck the Vatican’s response” but I’m afraid it might be misinterpreted.

I’ll simply say “Too little, too late.”

Who, Eddie ? The Church or Enda & Eamon ?

More than that gentleman- advance on the enemy!

Time the apologists for paedophile priests were exposed to the world!

Two deluded losers.

Yes lets march on Rome :-/

Big horns and white collars? You have been in the Galway race tent, then ;)

I’d see more similarities in those priests or bishops who did wrong and feel that they can blame the Vatican. What happened to individual responsibility? Is everyone not accountable for their own actions?

I’m surprised that Enda Kenny commented when he hadn’t even got around to reading the response. As for Gilmore- is he trying to play the ” Oh, it’s all too technical to understand” card?

No, Kenny’s saying “I don’t really give a bollix about their damned response.”

If you’re the Pope, you’re the head of the organization, its you’re responsibility.

If you claim to be infallible when speaking Ex Cathedra, the Buck Stops With You!

So if a doctor kills a patient, it’s the hospital administrator’s fault?

A hospital administrator probably wouldn’t try to cover up the death though now would he, Maria? he probably wouldn’t attempt to use whatever power he has to bully those who put their faith in him into shutting up

Maria how long are you going to use these analogies. no one is sayin the pope raped children (for all we know) but the Vatican as the ‘managers’ of the catholic church covered it up. stop clutching at straws!!

A appropriate response would be:
The people of this country are literate,well educated and they will no longer accept this sort of bullshit. Tell Ratizenger to take the document and stuff it up his holy arse.
Kindest regards
The Irish people.
p.s
Don’t forget to pay all of your bills before you leave.

Actually, I think that would be a bad response.

Joe thats a brilliant response

As one commentator in the Irish Times a month or so ago put it – Canon Law has as much weight in society as Golf Club Rules… Throw the full rigour of the law at those criminals that have perpetrated crimes against our children and against those that have perverted justice by covering these same crimes up. Simples!

Yeah and poblach na héireann obviously largely support the Vatican on this one. You see, many of us dont take our opinions from the Irish Times. Wrong about canon law having as much weight as golf club rules. It has as much weight as people choose to put into it. If people follow it, it has weight. But there is no conflict beteen the two anyway so its a moot point. Indeed, canon law bolsters civil law.

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” – Voltaire
By the way, Mick, it’s Maria, not Marie.

Francois- Marie Arouet …. hence…Voltiare

Maria what’s your position on priests reporting Peados if they admit to it in confession??

*ammo available to fling

And it’s simply not possible that he didn’t provide a single detail because there are no clear examples outside the prejudices of the mob?
Nobody denies child abuse happened in Ireland (at least I hope not) but there is simply not a singular shred of concrete evidence to prove Vatican collusion in these crimes. An awful lot of circumstantial evidence & people telling other people to “open their eyes”, but to what?!
There is simply no evidence. None.
(Realistically, I think one can predict quite a fair few “red thumbs” after this… Mob mentality doesn’t mean I’m wrong though…)

The speech was accurate.

Judge Yvonne Murphy, in her first report, noted that the Vatican issued a set of instructions on how to deal with child abuse to all bishops in a document known as “crimen solicitationis”. This document was issued with instructions that it was to be kept secret. A most concerning section of this reads as follows (ref. Murphy report, section 4.26):

If there were indications in relation to the crime that were quite serious but not yet sufficient to warrant establishing an accusatory process, the bishop had to order that the accused be warned in a fatherly manner or most gravely adding, if necessary “an explicit threat of a process if a new accusation is made”. This material was to be kept in the archives, and the behaviour of the accused monitored.

Read that again. It says that Catholic Church policy is that when a child has been raped or sexually abused by a member of clergy and they report this to the Catholic Church, they are to be intimidated and monitored!
This documented procedure is in violation of human rights and the UN convention on the rights of the child, and it is enforced in all countries where the Catholic Church has a presence.

Paul Anthony Ward and Fiachra ORaghallaigh,

You pair are pushing your luck as far as credibility goes.

Read Fergus O’Neill’s comments below.

Realize that apologists for right wing fundy paedos have no place in Ireland.

Crimen solicitationis went out of effect in 2001. Enda Kenny claimed that the Holy See was undermining the authority of the Irish State as recent as three years ago. That allegation simply cannot be proven. What he’s done is give the Holy See the ability to act like it’s the one being slandered, and ignore the REAL substantive allegations made against it.

The Holy See is an expert on politics and international diplomacy. When playing games like this with it, you have to be clever, and make sure that you can back up every single point. Enda Kenny should have known this, but he didn’t. He did not get briefed by the Dep. of Foreign Affairs, that unfortunately has a lot of experience in dealing with the Holy See.

Maybe I’m looking at this with an overly legalistic lens, but what I really would have liked to see was allegations sticking. I’m terribly afraid that we will not see this happening, as the Holy See was handed its method of fighting back on a plate.

Speech was spot on.

But then again, Fianna Failers and zealots (indeed, in many cases the two are not mutually exclusive), never concerned themselves with such things as accuracy.

Enda, however contentious or difficult his job, could pioneer cold fusion, and would still be knocked by such people, while they praise their own for such trivialities as walking upright, or pissing in the khazi without wetting the seat.

Fair point about Crimen solicitationis Fiachra. I believe that Kenny’s “three year” reference was to the Papal Nuncio’s refusal to cooperate with the investigation (and the previous investigation, incidentally), thus frustrating its efforts.
The nuncio declined on the basis that he “does not determine the handling of cases of sexual abuse in Ireland and therefore is unable to assist you in this matter”.

However, this is quite disingenuous, since the report also found that “on 11 January 2009, Archbishop Clifford went to see the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Leanza. Archbishop Clifford told the Commission that he gave the Papal Nuncio a copy of the young man’s complaint as recorded by Fr Bermingham. The Nuncio advised him that he would forward the details of the complaint to the prefect of the Congregation for Bishops in Rome, Cardinal Re.”

Thus the Papal Nuncio, the Vatican’s highest representative in Ireland, was involved with reports of abuse, would (or should) have had records of that which would be of interest to the investigation, and refused under a false pretext to cooperate with it.

Yesterday’s response from the Vatican goes into considerable detail on the status if the “Framework Document” which, to my eye, fully justifies Kenny’s “gimlet eye of a canon lawyer” comments too. They can mince words all they like, but they said it was a mere “study document” and it was treated as such in Cloyne. Playing with words after the event doesn’t diminish that or provide comfort to those who were abused as a result of it.

@John Kehoe….. Thanks for making it clear that you support the jailing of paedophiles etc.
Has’nt the reason people are so prejudice and anticatholic struck you yet, would it have anything to do with the negative and irrational attitude of the vatican. Yes there are paedophiles everywhere but the clergy are in a supposedly controlled organisation and the pope is the head of that organisation, should’nt the buck stop with him. Any right minded person can see that the vatican is more concerned with the healing of the church that they are with the healing of the victims of their systemic abuse

What about the other clerical abuse cover-ups in the US, Germany, Canada, the UK etc? It just so happens they had no idea about those either? C’mon, open your eyes.

Because it’s called the Roman Catholic Church.

Chris, yes, including these countries but why on earth should Rome know about these scandals unless they were reported to? Most priests who carried out the abuse on children, acted themselves, not order from Rome. I disapprove child abuse but if problem, we should take action by ourselves, not cry for help from Rome!

Toureag,

At least *pretend* you understand how the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy works, and don’t be such a gormless prat.

Michael O’Neill, I notice a flag of Norway in your pic so you aren’t Irish? If I’m right then you are a fcuking prat!

Jesus lads, there isn’t a facepalm big enough.