important* not impotent lol

sweet Jesus what an autocorrect

The Frontline Alliance are spot on to say that they are being unfairly targeted.

A paramedic friend of mine ran the figures and it equates to a 20% pay cut for him, on top of all the other cuts they’ve had to swallow over the last 3 or 4 years.

@ adebayo,

You’re a bit of a kiss ass. You trying to cop off with a nurse ?

Who me? LL cool Adebayo?

Nah, I used to go out with one so I know what they do day to day. They deserve better that’s all. They didn’t go into nursing to be wealthy but they deserve a better standard of pay.

But while Im here, Sup girlz x

I like their outfits..

Like my outfit Daffy?
I’ll wear one of those short outfits so you can see my hairy arse when i bend over

Lads theres a place for that kind of talk. Coppers.

What’s Liam Doran’a salary? Just out of interest…..

Well said paul francis, pay the workers, not the criminals

Somewhere between EUR150k to EUR250k would be a good guess, maybe not including pension benefits, car, expenses, perks and other allowances.

That seems to be Union Boss level these days.

Well said Paul. Yet another little perk for persistent offenders, who also claim dole.

Perhaps that’s what it is but at least Liam Doran is out there fighting for the people he represents! And fighting damn hard from what I can see! Keep it up

@Eamonn Bolger

I’m not sure of Liam Doran’s pay .. but he’s a private sector employee technically.
And if I was a nurse, I’d like him representing me.

He’s so much more impressive a communicator and any other union bosses.

It ends up in the toilet, actually, it’s already there. Social welfare fraud is costing the state billions and they are not doing enough to combat it. I have reprted 4 people where I live, well over a year ago and nothing has changed. One particular African man is driving a Range Rover! We have a 02 Punto! It just makes my blood boil that we are being crucified with pay cuts and taxes and there are people here bleeding the country dry. Foreign and native! Rant over for today……

Ya social welfare fraud is a problem but as I explained to people already and it explains why you have reported and it has not been investigated, these are the 3% that have always been there during boom. They know how to work the system to get all the perks and benefits and this is the amazing part and I know this as fact, that 3% their files have been tucked away in the bottom drawer and are never looked at. The people who lost their jobs in the last 5 years due to the recession are getting nothing. This is a problem caused by a FF gov and not being fixed by FG. How hard can it be to investigate people who have been on social welfare for years. They won’t tackle the fraud, they would rather just cut right across the board. Life timers have a great time on welfare, people who need it because they can’t get work are struggling. So knowing the government wot fix it I would rather the government cut their wages, advisors wages, bankers, accountants, auditors, judges rte wages people who can afford it . Etc. but go back to where this all started why are we in this situation, our government got high on cheap credit and a clearly unsustainable property boom, in the interests of the banks at a cost to the people. Banks are nearly back to normal they say, my life is still destroyed and only getting worse. What makes sense about that?

Can i ask what did you actually report the man for????is he working and claiming the dole aswell or is there another reason why you reported him.just because he drives a jeep and you drive a punto is no reason to report someone,you come across very badly coming out with something like that the fact that he is of african orgin makes no difference at all.

@ Shane: I reported that particular man because he is receiving benefits while at the same time working as a security guard somewhere. I initially thought he just worked for this particular security firm but then I saw him in the post office receiving his benefits so I reported him. This is not jealousy because he has a Range Rover and we don’t, it’s because he has that car because he’s ripping off the state.We drive the car we can afford whilst working and contributing. We could all do that if we wanted to, the fact is, hard working, decent people don’t.

Yea ok thats just fine ive hes working and signing that is wrong.but you would be surprised with the amount of people who make reports out of jelousy.all reports are followed up.

The 11% unemployed, decent people don’t either.

3% life timers are giving people on welfare a bad stigma attached to them.

I have friends who have lost their jobs and they try and avoid articles that lead to this kind of abuse, now I’m not singling out anyone’s comment it happens all the time. I have seen grown women crying after reading what media prints about them and how people talk about them. These people worked all their lives.

People I hear say it their own fault they should have gone to college and up skilled. That makes no sense. They were happy with their simple life and average paying Job. They paid for EVERYTHING They have. They didn’t need the fancy car, big house, holidays every year( nothing wrong with wanting that) they were happy, they contributed through taxes all their lives most from the age of 18 until recession. They didn’t think their jobs would go did you? No even the mention of the bubble bursts, economists were told go away and commit suicide. These are the people suffering. I don’t see anything fair about that. They did nothing wrong.
I know there are the life time dolers and they bother everyone including people on welfare.
Why don’t the government investigate it. Would they rather that divide remain. DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

Mary u can ring siptu office and get it stopped as i did a few weeks ago. i think we should do the same

What agency? We have had no agency in the place I work for well over a year, and even then it was not retired nurses, it was the newly qualified midwives, who were given no contracts when their training finished, they were doing it to get their experience so they could get a decent job abroad on foot of it. No retired nurse/midwife in their right mind would have ever come back doing agency anyway, since its too similar to what I imagine hell to be like for the past few years.

“the bulk of hours”……………..where are you getting such misguided information?

the only reason hospitals and other health care facilities need agency staff to replace full time staff is because of the HSE’s ridiculous recruitment freeze. The government got themselves into this position and are trying to get out of it with stupid schemes of paying new grads 80% of the normal wage – which is even less successful than the recruitment freeze.
If we didnt have the agency staff, the hospitals etc couldnt function an everybody suffers.
The only solution is to hire full time staff and pay them properly – then and only then there will be little need for agency staff

Most union leaders are card carrying members of the labour party

Niall are u a member of An Garda Siochana??

Another intellectual comment by one of the people who give me such confidence in this country’s future!!!

Niall, they do their job unarmed here,
While the criminals are armed,
They deserve their pay

Niall, my friends a Garda and from what I hear the Gardai put up with a lot of crap. The Irish culture is that the public want the law implemented on everybody apart from themselves and as soon as the Garda trys to do his job, he,s the worst in the world. It might look easy to your untrained and ill informed eye

Niall, Gardai have already taken cuts in in excess of that figure. I hate feeding a troll like this but you Cleary have a gripe against Gardai.

Great comment Mr.Gough… I couldn’t have worded it better myself!!!

‘How soft Irish lads have it’. Don’t you just know already that out of all the comments that will be posted on the Journal today that this will be by far the dumbest. Uniformed Gardai don’t carry guns so your point again was?

Look at all ye fellas getting your knickers in a twist. Two of my childhood friends are guards, my uncle is a sergeant, my wife’s brother is a guard and if you had to depend on any of them for anything other than stamping something then you’d be in trouble. I don’t care that ye don’t like what I said but the fact is I know 4 gardai and they personally do dam all and 3 of them admit it. Most of them see very little trouble and they also know how to avoid it.

So your minority becomes the majority then?

It’s a pity the 87 killed in the line of duty didn’t know how to avoid trouble

Niall, made me laugh,
But those poor suckers will be needed at some stage, hope their not found wanting

Niall. Hats off for what id label a bad troll you did get response. Sooo success then?

What planet are u living on?

I suppose he lives on planet earth, unlike some of us who seem to live on planet entitlement magic money tree.

I’m sick of hearing about how hard the Guards have it. Some guards have a rough time, sometimes. It’s not 24/7/365. It’s a valid point about the nurses who are on the go the whole time they are at work. Also, about NY. Did you read it? Is Dublin more crime-ridden than NYC? Is Ballygobogland? Too much OTT tripe undermines the cause my friends.

Doesnotcompute, cop yourself on, 38k is a working persons wage, just above the average industrial wage, do u want the nurses to work for free, a person on the dole with a family of three kids would get this a year for sitting at home, there is something seriously wrong in this country when it is as financially rewarding to not work at all

Does, the government under Croke park 2, no pay cuts for 9-5 under 65.000,
Guess they think that’s a low enough wage,
38.000 doesn’t seem much by comparison, and on that wage nurses would be taking cuts

A person on the dole with 3 kids does not get 38 grand a year.

I’ve just spent a week in hospital, watching nurses running around for 13 hour shifts, never seeming to take a break, dealing with abuse from senile and confused patients and doing it all with a smile. People need to stop navel-gazing and comparing their own salaries to those in jobs they don’t do and don’t understand. Nurses should be getting a pay increase not a pay cut. There are plenty of alternative revenue streams our government have refused to tap.

€38k less pension levy, income tax, USC and whatever else is coming in cuts is almost definitely less than the tax free dole and child payments. Why constantly cut the front line people who are out working their asses off to pay the people who aren’t. Social welfare should be hacked. At this stage, people on social welfare have more in their pockets than low to middle income workers.

Couldn’t agree with you more

@Shane, suggest you check Vol 2 of McCarthy report. 2 adults 3 kids on welfare in Dublin could receive up to 42k per annum

Ah come on now the dole is 188 a week are you saying that nurses will be coming out with less than that after working a week and anyone with kids can claim child benifit its not just for people on the dole.

38000 to deal with the drunks, druggies ,criminals , psychotic and down right dangerous while at the same time giving the same professional care to the mothers, fathers , sons and daughter’s who need the reassurance and compassion from the nurse on call.
The same professional nurse who has to hold the hand of a relative to tell them their loved one has not made it and the nurse you meet to say all is ok. 24 hours 365 ever day and every night while your sleeping in your bed xmas morning they will be treating the iinjured and sick.
38000 is not enough by a long shot.

Exactly… which equates to a pre-deductions wage of about €80k in the public sector.

They get close enough to it Shane – Family rate on the dole with 3 children is €402, if living in Dublin the family would qualify for monthly Rent Supplement of €950, bringing weekly rate over €600. This doesn’t take include medical cards / fuel allowance etc.

Well, as a public servant I earn €36k and take home €23k. So not really that much after tax, pension levy etc…

Bar the genuine people on the social.

Shane

As Anon Ymons pointed out, €38k is gross pay, and works out at about €28.5k take home (give or take I am open to correction), and therein lies the problem in Irish society. People do not understand the difference between GROSS (Before paying income tax etc) & TAKE HOME PAY (what you get into your bank after paying income tax etc).

I have heard TD’s on radio taking about only getting €45k odd, and justifying that this is low compared to other “professions”. However as TD’s €45k is their TAKE HOME pay.

Politicians deliberately talk about their salary in terms of TAKE HOME PAY, while talking about every bodies else in relation to GROSS PAY. This is designed to confuse people, in other words hide the truth or better still to allow them LIE to the people.

Thats 2 adults not one.listen ye can give out about people on the dole all ye want if it makes ye feel better but we arnt the ones cutting yer wages and not all of us choose to be on the dole,ye are taking out yer anger on the wrong people.

Shane, it’s all the little extras that add up for people on the dole when they have children. There’s the rent allowance, medical card, back to school allowance, clothing allowance, fuel allowance. Plus, when babies are born they get money towards cot, pram, car seat etc. Then there’s the allowance towards communion and confirmation. They can also get their energy bills paid if they are about to be cut off. It’s just ridiculous. I don’t believe €188 is a lot to live on but there are people living very comfortably courtesy of the tax payer struggling to get by.

Well said ciaran!!

I wouldn’t call it anger Shane. Simply pointing out that quoting gross salaries in low to middle income workers is misleading. Those workers will generally only see between half or 2/3 of that. Social welfare can often be equivalent. It’s called the middle income poverty trap.

Carcu
I think you may be confused or perhaps even manipulating truth. Any politician who refers to their nett pay and the figure they use is accurate couldn’t possibly be accused of lying. So why would you say that this isn’t so?

But is that there fault that they can claim all these expenses the system is there to be screwed,i worked with lads who were getting over 800 cash in hand a week and still claimed the dole.A single man living on the dole gets 188 a week thats what they calculate as the basic amount of money to cover the cost of living.some of us dont choose to be on the dole i started work at 16 while i was in school and became a plumber at 18 worked till i was 25 i would much rather have a job its not all about the money its something to get up for in the morning.but people coming on here bashing people on the dole because there wages are been cut is just plain wrong take the fight to the unions and politicans about the wage cuts.

Where’s the finer details? Is €38k point 4 of the scale for a dual qualified nurse? Is it point 7 of the scale for an ordinary staff nurse? Is that figure inclusive of the location allowance, the dual qualification allowance, the community allowance for psych nurses, the allowance for psych nurses who are assigned to OT (qualified/unqualified), the acting up allowance, the island inducement allowance, the on-call/standby allowance, the nurse coordinator allowance, RGN’s in the community allowance, or the PHN’s w/e work allowance?

This mornings shift (since 6:00am).
Start shift: clear through A&E – drunk injuries mostly remaining.
Start Pre-op assessments on list patients today.
Inform family of patient that to put their relative under anaesthetic would kill them faster than the disease they have.
Called to A&E where a patient is aspirating on their own vomit.
Explain to that patients family why that happened.
Am currently waiting while anaesthetist reassess a patient to see if his opinion differs to the other anaesthetist.
I’ve another 9hrs to go. You were saying Shane?

@shane, it’s not all about “getting at” ppl on the dole. I wouldn’t swap with you. What the low paid public servants i.e. the majority!! want is a little support from other groups who know what it is like to struggle with what little they have.

This is where our problem is folks, all telling each other to suck it up and cop on when it doesn’t effect us.

Question is, who is next after us? Social welfare?? Probably. But if no one says no now. Who will be there to support the ppl on social?? Will we just be saying suck it up?

We all have family who are on social, we all have family who are low level public servants like nurses. Lets support our families!!

United we stand, divided we fall

James, are you on break now in ED? Just wondering why you’re posting while working?

They are highlighting the fact that its nearly better off on the dole than working as a nurse.

Shane nobody is complaining about genuine cases of people on welfare indeed many of us probably know somebody who was self employed in construction during the boom and paid prsi for themselves and in some cases their employees who are now struggling to get basic welfare payments. In many of these cases a mixture of lack of knowledge of the system and pride means these people don’t get what they are entitled to.

There is however a cohort of welfare recipients who never worked even in the good times when there were so many jobs vacant a large number of non national people were willing to come here and fulfil those vacancies. It was a lifestyle choice made by those people who probably decided that they were not willing to lose their medical cards for an extra 50-100 per week or indeed felt that flipping burgers or stacking shelves was beneath them. Before anybody who does those jobs takes a pop at me I am using those as examples of entry level jobs that are at the lower end of the pay scales. I myself worked in McDonalds at one point in my life and was damn glad for the job at the time. There is in this community a sense of entitlement and it has been handed down through the generations and this problem has been ignored by successive governments. In the US they reduced the welfare spend in the boom years while good old Paddy increased it further disincentivising peoples need to work. For people who work and are struggling there is no fall back option of the Vincent de Paul or the Welfare Office for special payments. People who work have to make very practical decisions like can they afford another child as nothing will counteract the extra bills in their take home wages however those on welfare get an increase per child. While I don’t want to see children in poverty when I see cases of a man on 700 p/w (36400 per year just short of average nurses gross pay) social welfare to support his family of wife and 8 kids(not including childrens allowance) I wonder how society can afford to foot this bill of a sponger when workers are getting cut who would not get anything like the amount this man gets before tax not to mind what the take home pay is. With this system in place is it any wonder that 40% of govt spend is on welfare.

Ok have i once said that nurses pay should be cut?????all im saying is theres no point blaming people on the dole because its not us cutting yer pay.listen if it makes a few of ye feel better about urselves to bash people on the dole go ahead ill reply to ye all day,all im saying is yer anger is directed at the wrong group.

billy damm that’s a long comment took me ages to read all that.

Exactly we do support ye but alot of people have come on here attacking those on social welfare,how can ye look for support of everyone when ye attack other groups

I don’t think it’s the intention to ‘attack’ the ‘people’ on social welfare, but the social welfare system its self, not its recipients

Shane I dont know your circumstances but you don’t strike me as one of the cohort I was talking about. Welfare abuse is what people are giving out about. My own family members have been recipients of welfare since the crash but they aren’t riding the system just because they can. Welfare abuse is not something that we should consider or condone and indeed if a more strong handed approach was taken to this issue there would be more for the genuine people like you.
The abuse and cost of same is pointed out as a place govt could make a saving if they wish but of course its not politically suitable.

Ah now the comment that started all this said social welfare should be hacked instead of nurses or gardai pay.alot of ye are putting us all into one group as though all of us are spongers.i volunteer my time to do plumbing maintanence for the simon community know imagine that im not ment to do that because im on the dole im ment to be always availible to look or do work.listen its a small % who are scamming the system how many of ye know people on the dole that there bills outway the 188 they get a week.

My comment was intended to show that just because we have jobs doesn’t mean we have it easy. Being a nurse or a doctor or a paramedic or a firefighter or a Garda was never easy, it wasn’t easy in the good times, it’s not easy in the bad.
A lot of nurses would be better off on SW, especially the newer ones, but SW isn’t an option. A commenter said below that if they don’t like the employer they can leave – they are leaving. We are training nurses and doctors for the UK, Canada, the Middle East, Australia. We can’t bleed them fast enough it seems, yet we can’t hire enough. We could literally hire every nurse and doctor that qualifies on the island for the next 10 years and we still won’t have enough of them, yet here we are – arguing over worse pay and conditions when the pay and conditions we have at the moment are doing nothing to keep newly qualified personnel. If this goes through, we might as well close every hospital in the country, because its only a matter of time before HIQA do.

Not every body gets rent allowance fair play to all ye hypocrites ye are all doing the business for this government turning against ordinary people who cannot help that they have lost their jobs screw the gov not the people

Good man chris at least theres a few out there who know what im talking about.

There are pay cuts for some 9-5 under 65,000 but they’re sneaky. Those at the top of their salary scales, no matter what grade, are being cut by an increment. What’s worse is the way the government seems to be doing a divide and conquer with the public service. Trying to set the frontline workers against the rest. We all know how incredibly hard nurses and other frontline workers work. It is disgraceful the way they are being treated.

Jesus Ann McGukin, god forbid a nurse had a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are ye like!

Not all those allowances can be claimed together, also, the dual qualification allowance is only applicable to those in their positions before 1997 or something like that so nobody would only be on the 4th point and eligible for it.

Ann
To get any dual qualification you have to work in both areas your also can only receive one extra allowance I have a triple qualification and work in a very specialised area I don’t get paid for my third qualification which ironically is the one that makes me a specialist in my field.
I have done paid for every course I’ve done taken time out of my annual leave and worked extra on calls and weekends to allow time off during the week to attend lectures in university. I sat beside private sector employees in a management course who had the course paid for and were given time off to attend lectures and were given extra pay when they graduated, we get none of those perks.
I pay €88 to register to work each year on top of all the other cuts to my salary.
I have a job I love and that’s the part that makes me lucky; when I started nursing at 18 years of age I had no idea what a pension was; I like all my group left Ireland in 1994 to work abroad because there was no work here I came back highly qualified yet people like you begrudge me my salary.

Cloidhna, I don’t know where you are getting the idea that I am begrudging anyone their salary – I don’t. All I am doing is questioning the information that the INMO is putting out there, or am I not allowed to do that? The one thing about Croke Park 2 is that it has let the jinny out of the bottle about what it’s always been about – pay and protecting your T&C’s. Have you’s thought about what the end ball game is? How far as you’s prepared to go on this one? Are you’s planning to go to go out on an all out strike?

Now I agree with you about the way in which nurses have to pay for their courses. To me it’s simple, if your CPD turns out to be relevant to your current work practice area then it should be fully funded by the employer, and it isn’t, then it should be self-funded. But lets get something straight, it’s the unions who’ve tolerated this farce around CPD for years. As for the registration fees for ABA, well other professionals also pay fees to a professional body in order to practice and it’s not just €88 either. In case you don’t know, ABA registration fees are also a tax deductible work related expense.

What concerns me is that we are not hearing anything about the patient in all of this. Today we learned that the number of patients who are waiting more than nine months for in-patient treatment has risen. There’s also in excess of 380k persons who are waiting on their first OPD appointment not to mention the fact that we’re constantly hitting 200+ patients nationwide who are “officially” being recorded on trolleys – official being the penultimate word. Now who exactly is advocating on behalf of the patient? As someone who originally trained as a nurse that’s something that really concerns me. But carry on….

Good on ye

Is there a Bar Mitzvah allowance, if not that’s discrimination

There should be a Sunday allowance too

Ann
In answer to your question patient care is the central ethos of everyone involved in healthcare. Why do you think we do courses and develop our profession’s it’s to provide the best evidence based care to our patients.
There has always been transparency in what healthcare professionals are paid as its always been available to the public. It’s the private sector where salaries were kept a secret. So there’s no jinny escaping from any lamp where my salary is concerned!!!

Cloidhna, I know many nurses engage in patient centered care but there’s a certain cohort who’s practice is far from patient centered. Equally, not all nurses follow best evidence based practice in respect to their nursing practice. How many nurses who you know would be stupid enough to implement a policy that wasn’t even proofed? I would have found it hard to believe, but I can tell you that it’s happening today in a certain large academic teaching hospital. Now don’t get me started on the private health sector or PHI companies. You better get use to it though because that’s the direction our health services is heading like it or not and it won’t be equal access for all either.

Ann
If you feel as strongly as you do patients are in danger you can contact ABA about their fitness to practice.
I know what I do and I am responsible for my practice and any students I work with. All nurses and midwives are adults and therefore are responsible for their own practice.
I would love to see the HSE run as a business like the health service in NZ is but until then I will continue to look after the women and babies in my care to the best of my ability and continue to improve my professional development.

Don’t you get it? They *are* leaving. We can’t keep enough of them.

Shaun, nurses are leaving, soon there will be a shortage here,
In the private sector that means pay increases or reduced services,
Private and public service are different,

Your sooooo right and they do. We seem to train nurses for the NHS we train them then not pay them ap off they go and earn at least double, triple if they ho down under. People suffer here aa we lose or best nurses from your approach. I hope you dont ever need one and see their true value.

Not only should ww not cut nurses pay we need to give them more.

This issue here Shaun is that its in our best interests (the population) that they don’t find another employer – otherwise who do you expect will be there to care for you and your family/friends when ill. Irish nurses are very highly trained and dedicated. We should be doing all we can to ensure that as few leave this country as possible. The work they do is incredibly hard, they deal with extremely difficult and harrowing situations everyday and they should have a wage that reflects this. What is the point in taxpayers funding education of highly skilled nurses and then getting no benefit from this later in life.

We’re forgetting that our health service is moving to a private model under Universal Health Insurance!

Shaun I don’t really care how many private sector workers leave, sure they did that in the good times too. But nurses look after me when I’m sick so I’d prefer if they stayed and you and your ilk fecked off!

The Nurses who havent left because government policies prevented recruitment for so long and they are severely overworked will now throw their hands in the air as they have to spend their off duty hours worrying about how they will pay their bills. Nurses just want to do their jobs and live comfortably.
When these nurses go, what is the government going to do to repair the health service? This will end up costing far more than they are saving now.
And meanwhile – the patients, the general public (this means you Shaun) WILL suffer

They are leaving Shaun.