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Cuts to rent supplement will lead to evictions, say property owners

Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

A LOBBY GROUP representing Irish property owners has claimed that cuts to rent supplements, being planned by social protection minister Joan Burton, could force many landlords to evict their tenants.

The Irish Property Owners’ Association says the cuts – floated by Burton in an interview with yesterday’s Sunday Independent could also result in some landlords being forced into default on their mortgages for rental properties.

“Rent itself has to be paid, contracts are signed by both tenants and lanlords,” IPOA’s Margaret McCormick told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

Because the government were “pulling the rug out from under the poor tenant”, she said, occupiers of rental property would either have to seek a reduction of their rent, or move out of the properties for which they have already signed a lease.

McCormick added that landlords – 55 per cent of whom have already restructured property loans with banks – were equally likely to face financial difficulty, with some already sustaining losses on rental properties.

Bruton had said yesterday that her department’s budget for rent supplement – which last year stood at around €530m last year – did not present value for money, and that a value-for-money audit showed it could be reduced by €22m.

That report showed that in some cases, the amounts being paid out in rent supplement – which is paid to people living in rental accommodation whose only income is a State benefit – were now greater than the market rate for property in those areas.

The cuts to the supplement – which varies depending on county, personal circumstances and the nature of the accommodation – mean that larger families could see their payments fall by hundreds every month.

The Budget proposed to cut around €55m from rent supplement spending by increasing the minimum contribution made by the resident, and by reviewing the limits set on spending.

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Comments (71 Comments)

  • eireisfnucked 16/01/12 #
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    my rent allowance already been cut any1 know y? didnt think it ws in the budget?

    Reply
    • HiItsMeDieter 16/01/12 #
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      Bad spelling perhaps?

    • HELLO SPRUIKER 16/01/12 #
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      ”Cuts to rent supplement will lead to evictions, say property owners”

      My Arse.

      These guys are the states largest payer of residential rents (and growing).

      They set the market rent whether your greedy landlord or his greedy bank like it or not.

    • eireisfnucked 16/01/12 #
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      how mature HiltsMeDieter!

    • eireisfnucked 16/01/12 #
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      O.K so why did I get so many thumbs down for asking a question ?

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Yeah, my partners rent supplement was reduced by 14% since the start of January too.. Is the cuts she’s talking about on top of that?
      My landlord has to pay the banks for the mortgage he has on this place. He’s been really understanding and reduced our rent several times, but he’s teetering on losing money on our rent.. My partner already pays over 50% of his rent (over twice their €24 per week)..

      Congratulations to the government for thinking this one through.. Our rent is in line (if not less) than the rent prices for our area.. I would love to know where they get their figures from..

    • James Comerford 17/01/12 #
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      to be fair the ‘rent in your area’ is being held artificially high by rent supplements, and has been the case for years in this country. Its a falsehood and not reflective of the volume of properties available. these are the first steps in making it more affordable for everyone to rent….

  • Neil Kettles 16/01/12 #
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    I suppose the landlords thing there’s a huge queue waiting to replace their social welfare tennents!

    Reply
  • chicken ball ann 16/01/12 #
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    Pulling the ‘Persian handmade rug’ from under the tenant more like… Cut it in half at least for the mollycoddled & if the landlord won’t accept the reduction find somewhere else to live that ‘we the taxpayer’ can afford.

    Reply
    • Niamh Byrne 16/01/12 #
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      The problem is the rent has to cover the.mortgage.otherwise it is not sustainable.I am not an advocate for landlords but I can see their point in this one. If they can’t part the mortgage with rent then they have to default and who ends up picking up the tab then ??? Wot persian rug are you talking about?

    • Jerking Jester 16/01/12 #
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      just shows how ignorant most of you people are. im on disability and my wife cares for me and our 1 year old daughter. we can claim everything we want and get atleast 3000 euro but all we claim is rent allowance and disability. i was given a bus pass and i sent it back as i cant leave the house. not everyone is a scumbag on rent allowance. we dont drink or do drugs and our idea of a party is having family over for dinner. i wait for the day it happens to you. aand also all my family work and so do hers.

    • HiItsMeDieter 16/01/12 #
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      Chinese Chicken Balls?

    • Paul Mallon 16/01/12 #
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      It’s the same problem with the banks again isn’t it? they pushed the market, loaned recklessly, then won’t write down any of the insane mortgages, so everyone renting has to pay these prices. They’re gettng bailed out from every direction and not giving an inch in return.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Why don’t you take your misguided assumptions and feck off Chicken Balls?
      I’d like to see you try and get by on €188 + €36per week.. My partner and I already only have two meals per day because we can’t afford any more (and we eat cheap). Our landlord is making no money off us at all because we pay the mortgage and nothing else (and he’s in a LOT of debt).
      My partner pays over half of his own rent, always has – this €24 contribution is nonsense, he pays over double that. He doesn’t leave the house because he can’t afford to.

      So who is mollycoddled? Where’s all the Persian rugs and flat screen TVs? Oh no wait, that’s just your stereotyped idea of a benefits scrounger. It’s not the reality for the majority..

    • chicken ball ann 16/01/12 #
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      @shanti om. My comment is not an assumption it’s a fact. I’m not naive I understand a rent allowance is needed for people in serious circumstances not for little fucks who don’t want to live at home with mammy anymore or people that are working & signing on. You do not know my circumstances I was making a comment & it was you that made the assumption & requested me to feck off. I really hope your circumstances get better , good luck.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Have you looked at the maximum permitted rent levels for each county versus the average rents in that area?
      Have you seen how many rental properties are off limits to those who need to make a claim?
      I’m a tax payer too (now), but I also realise that my neighbours are disabled, my partner is disabled, and the neighbours before that were disabled.. The fact that you are disabled doesn’t make any difference to the level of rent supplement – the cuts hit them exactly the same.

      I see no handmade persian rugs round here. I see no mollycoddling, I see people who have nothing and no means to change their situation getting hit and everyone thinking that’s just fine and dandy.. My apologies if my comment was insulting, but so was yours.

    • chicken ball ann 16/01/12 #
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      What are you going on about disabled people for, I never mentioned the word so do me a favour & go talk shite to someone else.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Because they are affected exactly the same way as everyone else who’s rent supplement is to be cut.. I agree fraudsters should be dealt with, but they’re the minority – not the majority.
      And then theres all those who lost their jobs who are now relying on this payment. They would have had to renegotiate their rents quite a bit in order to claim rent allowance (if their landlord didn’t refuse to accept it) as the maximum levels that can be claimed for are quite a bit below the average rental prices.. Unless they wrote the correct figure on the form and came to a seperate agreement with the landlord for the rest (as was suggested to us by a TDs constituency office when we were initially refused) but that would constitute welfare fraud, so I hope they managed to renegotiate as we did – otherwise they have found themselves in a bad position..

      The rent prices are way out of EVERYONE’S league.. All this stuff about rent supplement keeping rents artificially high is mad, as the maximum permitted rent for rent supplement is quite a bit lower than the average rent for the area.. It is here anyway (€150-200 less at the moment)

  • Niamh Byrne 16/01/12 #
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    This is not good. It is only going to make it more difficult for tenants that depend on rent supplement. It is going to force the most.vulnerable into homelessness. I hope the gov think this through properly…..would that be expecting too much?

    Reply
    • Norman Hunter 16/01/12 #
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      Who will replace these tenants,no one is the answer.Rents have an artificial ceiling because of the rent supplement.

    • Tim Henchin 16/01/12 #
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      Niamh. The rent supplement is an artificial support given to landlords at great cost to the economy. It needs to be brought down to a more suitable level. It does not reflect the current realities of Irish property.

      It should bring down rents across areas as well. If that means that the property is not washing its own face, then that is an unfortunate economic reality, based on correct valuations vs what they paid for it.

    • Niamh Byrne 16/01/12 #
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      a family member is on rent supplement and is unable to work. The rent he pays is above the supplement threshold so we subsidise the difference for him. If the rent supplement is reduced it is us who will end up paying more. The family member in question thankfully has us to share the load but there are a lot of vulnerable people out there who don’t have any family support. If the supplement is reduced they will not be able to afford the difference (unless there landlord is in the position to reduce the rent but they would be an exception).

  • William O'Shea 16/01/12 #
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    Now let me see, 750e million from health
    55e million from rent subsidy;
    805e million;
    Only another 445e million to find for UNSECURED bondholders…… this time! At this stage I’m curious to see which future cut will be the one to break the camel’s back……. oh wait now the camel is spineless!

    Reply
  • Neicy in Cork 16/01/12 #
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    I know two people who are claiming rent allowance and have partners working full time living with them. Surely they should be targeted and not those who genuinely need it?

    Reply
    • Rob Jones 16/01/12 #
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      presumably you have reported them

    • Rob Jones 16/01/12 #
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      … the more fraud is reported, the more money is available to help those in genuine cases. See here if you haven’t https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

    • Neicy in Cork 16/01/12 #
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      Cheers Rob! I’ll plead the 5th on your first comment if you don’t mind. I agree that reporting known cases of fraud will ensure that those in genuine need can be helped both now and in the future.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Just as a matter of interest.. Do you know whether they are getting the full or partial rate? Do you know whether their partners income was considered by the CWO? Because when you apply for rent allowance you declare who lives with you and must provide evidence of their income..

      Or are you perhaps making assumptions??

    • eoghandee 16/01/12 #
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      If they are living with their partner who works full time then they only get a tiny jobseekers allowance because their partner is working, so they probably really need the rent allowance,

    • Neicy in Cork 16/01/12 #
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      Shanti – I would not be on here under a public profile with my name and picture if I was making assumptions. Both these people are claiming full rent for two bed apts. one is male, one is female. Both are proud that they have codded the system. Neither are working and their partners are. They have their post going to other addresses.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Fair enough, then I would echo the sentiment that they should be reported. I resent people defrauding the system too as it has such a negative impact on those in genuine need.

    • Neicy in Cork 16/01/12 #
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      Also Shanti you seem to be the only one assuming here.

    • Neicy in Cork 16/01/12 #
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      I agree Shanti. The system is f*cked up. I wish you well for the future. It should be noted that the landlords – even of accepting a lower rent – have the security of it being paid regularly. They are the only ones who have security in the system IMO

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Agreed, the system is ridiculously confusing and out of touch with reality.. But that sorta sums up our government really..

      And my apologies for my defensiveness.. These topics inflame the rage!! I had some misconceptions about our welfare system until I was forced to rely upon it, at which stage my illusions were shattered..
      The maximum rent levels being so far from the average as well as most rental properties refusing rent supplement reduces the availability of accommodation for those reliant on the state – often forcing them into sub standard properties.
      Then even the stuff you read about paying €24 towards rent is nonsense too, because it’s usually at least €50..
      Until you have actually had to apply, had to sit in the CWOs waiting room and submit your figures you have no idea how different the reality is from what you see on paper..
      That’s why I get so incensed by people assuming that it’s such a comfortable living.. I would love to know how anyone would choose to be on welfare for life. It’s a miserable existence.. If they’re enjoying it they must be getting something I didn’t and my partner never has..

  • Chris lynch 16/01/12 #
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    Hopefully this is aimed at welfare fraud.

    Reply
  • Adam Magari 16/01/12 #
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    Rent supplement is another one of those policies that looks as wholesome on paper as mother’s milk. Another poison chalice. It should be abolished. The country and NAMA is awash with spare property. Now is the time to make the shift. In practice, it keeps rents high and therefore artificially boosts property values. Funny old world we live in where landlords might actually have to step out into a nonfeather bedded market and achieve market prices for their rental properties. I had to push the bowl of sliced onions off my lap when I read that some landlords had to restructure their debts. But apparently if the government wants to restructure rent supplement rates, that is impermissible. What many of these folk don’t realise in their state funded asset accumulation drive is that an obsession with property is what prevented imaginative growth historically, as the banks were strictly bricks and mortar men, and more recently has brought total ruination on many small businesses and families. The country has to get away from the conservative past and it’s bad patterns if it is to recover. When you look at Dail, you wonder if that is just a pipe dream.

    Reply
    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Right.. So let the banks foreclose on all those properties.. And then leave them empty and decaying.. Brilliant idea..

  • Paul Lanigan 16/01/12 #
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    Rent allowance was always a subsidy to landlords. The price will always rise/fall to what people can afford. Give them an allowance and the price goes up. Landlords are going to have to take this on the chin I’m afraid

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    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Here’s a question..
      Seeing as rent supplement is a safety net for landlords, how come more of them don’t accept it?

      Also, how do rent supplements prop up the market? The maximum claim amount is usually lower than the average rent for the area (eg, 1 bed for a couple with no kids in Bray, maximum their rent is allowed to be in order for their rent allowance claim to be successful = €525. Average rent for a bedsit suitable for 1 in Bray? €600-650.. If they claim for this amount they get a flat out NO. During the boom the max rent you could claim for was €820, average rent was €1100)

      They’ve been trying to force rent reductions via rent supplement for years, it hasn’t worked, now they’re gonna try it again, isn’t that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing and expecting different results?

  • Rocky Dennis 16/01/12 #
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    About time this pudding was looked at properly. The country is awash with vacant properties that could and should be utilised. NAMA could rent out some of these properties and sort out these ghost estates for Social housing. This is a huge opportunity to relieve the burden on the taxpayer…

    Reply
    • Adam Magari 16/01/12 #
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      Absolutely. Now is the time to capitalise on the NAMA box of vacant properties p, but it won’t happen. The vested interests in the rental market, from the publican to the local councillor, will be burning printer cartridges pumping out threatening guff to supine TDs. Before the election, upward only rent reviews were to be cracked down.over Xmas that proposal was being canned. Same all over. Legal fees can only be reduced by the price of a loaf of bread, public sector increments must be paid, welfare rates are still the most generous in Europe, and rent supplement is pure gravy for landlords with local authority rental agreements. The vast bulk of my pension pot of investments went into the air in 07/08. Many of the public servants charged with regulation of publicly quoted financial institutions were asleep up to and during the period. No fear of their pensions going into the toilet however.

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Yeah.. Our welfare rates are really generous.. You know that what you get in the UK actually goes further because the prices there aren’t so goddamn overblown.
      9p for a tin of bachelors baked beans in the UK (who import them), over 50c for the same tin here – and it’s an Irish company..
      This “generous welfare rates” thing only applies when you take into account what it costs to live. Believe me, living on a standard social welfare payment plus rent supplement does not leave one particularly comfortable..

  • PerkyBeans 16/01/12 #
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    My landlord kept my deposit, we are still going through the prtb but it’s taking months. John Cronin give us our money back!!!!

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    • Report this comment

      Why is he/she keeping your deposit, did you poop on furniture?

    • Jerking Jester 16/01/12 #
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      its against the law to hold onto deposit he or she needs to prove that they deserve it. also if you moved out before tenancy was up then landlord reserves the right to hold it and also bring you to court for the rest. if you give 30 days notice to landlord and advise him you will find the tenants for him and he refuses then he has to give you full deposit. i know a lot about tenants rights as i have had slumlords in past. also did you know that you need to avail of your own insurance as landlords house insurance is seperate

    • PerkyBeans 17/01/12 #
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      Hi, no we stayed for full lease, rent always on time, and place spotless, and we were told we were getting the lease back. However we are still waiting and after months of emails and phonecalls we gave had to go through PTRB to try get this resolved but that was ages ago, I have created a FB page ‘give us back our deposit John Cronin’ just there please like and share, can’t let people like that get away with this

  • Dave McCarthy 16/01/12 #
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    Socialism fail

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  • Boy Russell 16/01/12 #
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    Firstly, I am NOT in receipt of a Rental allowance/supplement, but I feel a need to express my anger towards some of the blubbering foolish comments made by certain people above.
    Having read through the comments, I am appalled by the amount of people who’re slating people in receipt of rent allowance.
    I know a small amount of people in receipt of it (2 to be precise) and they are genuinely on it because they are more than entitled to it due to their unemployment,etc.. and I believe they pay a 3rd of the allowance out of their own shook up pockets.
    I work. Some people on here work. But for gods sake, live and let live! A majority of our nation is suffering! We, the Irish and indeed citizens, need to STOP this disgusting begrudgery, and challenge these horrible times with an open mind!!
    It could be you or I next week!
    Loyalty is what we’re sadly lacking these days!!!
    To finish on a slightly irrelevant FACT – Brian Hayes (TD and Minister) is a smarmy arrogant obnoxious Pr**k!
    Regards!

    Reply
    • Ann Illing 16/01/12 #
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      very well said. especialy the last sentence !

    • Niamh Byrne 16/01/12 #
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      Hear hear….on all of it ;)

    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Beautifully put.
      I’ve been stuck on welfare (during the boom), thankfully I managed to get back to work, but my partner has a disability and has been signed of as unfit for work indefinitely – and I subsidise him. I didn’t ask to subsidise him but that’s the way it goes.

      Yes, there are those out there who seem to know how to play the system and they should be dealt with, but they are in the minority..

      Maybe all those who think being stuck on welfare is a doddle should try it. They might realise its not as “generous” as they would like to believe.

  • fitszpatrick 16/01/12 #
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    ump

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    A lot of people top up their rent with their dole to get a decent place; landlords have priced shitty places at the RA rates … decent apts are either no rent allowance or over the odds. Applying the rules re: minimum standards would also help.

    This monster was given birth to by the state. Rents have not fallen 50/60% like for sale values have. This is the fictitious market, it keeps the book value up. Drop that and the banks are off course in their books again.

    Rents need to drop in Dublin by about 25% in my opinion. Managing that hit is another matter but money spent on property as rent or repayments is money into the black hole; the less we do that the better.

    I defaulted on payments once upon a time, the early ’90s recession to be precise. It was all paid back, a year late and to the penny; no matter what I was a bad risk. What I couldn’t believe was that after surviving a recession, regrouping and repaying loans (late but interest and penalties also paid) I was a BAD risk?

    They deserve it all, am SO glad I never got into bank shares.

    Reply
  • Keith L Cullen 16/01/12 #
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    At last someone is going to address this ridiculous system of rent supplement. It has been artificially keeping rents high for so long it is embarrassing. It appears to be an assumption that all landlords have huge mortgages to pay back on their buy to lease properties due to the reckless lending of the banks. For some accidental landlords this is true but before the boom there were landlords too. These guys have been happily counting the money for years boosted by the supplement.
    Although I do not receive any supplement I know many people in receipt of it. I am concerned with some of the comments above that basically mark them out as being lazy scroungers. This is not true for the majority. Unemployment is at nearly 15%, of course more people are in need of it now. But it still needs to be reduced.
    As someone who pays for private accommodation I for one will keep a close eye on what the reduction in the supplement is because I intend to request a rent reduction of a similar amount and I urge others to do the same.

    Reply
  • Neil Williams 16/01/12 #
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    One type of landlord in Irish history has been replaced by another home grown variety and these are more ruthless than the last . Most landlords were driven by greed and bought houses with 100% mortgages as so called investments and now that it’s all gone pear shaped they will evict the unfortunate tenant… Just like times past

    Reply
  • Raf 16/01/12 #
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    I read an article suggesting that about half of all rented accommodations in Ireland were subsidized by rent supplement, thus keeping average rent high despite crisis.
    Ultimately, it is landlords and banks who this money goes to.

    Reply
  • eoghandee 16/01/12 #
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    In Cork,
    A couple paying 140euros a week are entitled to about 100euros rent allowance,
    A couple paying anything over that cap is entitled to nothing, even if
    their rent is 145 euros a week, nothing,
    wheres the logic in that?
    System is backward

    Reply
    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Where are you getting your figures from? The maximum rent permissible in Cork is €575 for a couple with no kids.
      This is not how much the couple will receive in rent supplement. It’s the maximum their overall rent is allowed to be, if they say their rent is €600 on the form their application will be refused.
      If they were getting €100 per week, and paying the minimum of €24 each per week then their rent would need to be €641.. Your figures are wrong.

      Let’s put that in perspective.. During the boom before the cuts the maximum permitted rent in Bray was €820. At the time my partner and I were both on welfare and had no other income, we got the maximum pay out. It was €90 per week between us. Bear in mind, the average rent at that time was €1100.

      €90 x 52 = €4680
      €820 x 12 = €9840
      That left €5160 payable by us. A fair bit off the 72% you are claiming is paid..

      I really don’t know where you are getting your figures, but rent allowance paid is always less than 50% of the rent. And the maximum rent permissible is always a couple of hundred quid less than the going rate (in Wicklow its now €525, Bray falls under wicklow – rents in bray are approx €650-700 for a small 1 bed, €525 would barely even get you a bedsit)

      Everyone makes that mistake, you look at the maximum rent levels (here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html) and assume that’s what gets paid but it’s not. That is the maximum you are allowed to CLAIM for.

  • Neil Williams 16/01/12 #
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    Rather than build social housing or acquire homes for social housing long standing government policy (Fianna fail) was to provide a cash cow for property owners/developers etc to feed the ever growing property frenzy … But it’s all gone wrong now … Far too many tenants are vunerable to landlords who will bully tenants into paying the existing rent out of already meagre social welfare payments

    Reply
  • Lisa Saputo 16/01/12 #
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    I wonder will this lead to a drop in rent! I bloody hope so anyway!

    Reply
    • Shanti Om 16/01/12 #
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      Wouldn’t that be fantastic? Sadly I don’t think it’s likely to make a huge impact, but we can only hope!

  • Neil Williams 16/01/12 #
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    It probably will lead to lower rents in time but that’s not much comfort to people now who are put under pressure to deal with difficult landlords who won’t drop rent easily although in most cases if a tenant left the next tenant will pay lower rent so it’s a case of call my bluff but many people are too afraid/ nervous to get into negotiations

    Reply
  • Niall Sheridan 16/01/12 #
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    Again the poorest are being asked to bail out the richest. Any bets on Joan or Labour making it through the next election? I’m betting a magnificent kick out for them – as ignominious as the Greens!!

    Reply

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