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Dublin: 12 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

VIDEO: Dáil suspended for nearly 30 minutes in property tax timing row

Business was twice suspended as Richard Boyd Barrett complained about the time provided to debate property tax changes.




THE DÁIL was adjourned for almost 30 minutes this evening following disputes between the Taoiseach, Ceann Comhairle and Richard Boyd Barrett.

The disputes centred over the time allotted to debate amendments to the Property Tax Amendment Bill, on which a final vote is scheduled to be held tonight at 10pm.

Boyd Barrett said the time allotted to the Bill was not sufficient to deal with proposals that would have such a major impact on the public, and said the timetabling was an example of a “cynical policy” where the government allowed lengthy debates on less contentious Bills but curtailed them for more divisive laws.

Opposition parties have tabled 67 proposed amendments to the legislation, with roughly two minutes allotted for each. Amendments ordinarily take at least 15 minutes each to consider, if a vote is called.

Kenny dismissed his claims as “ranting”, and said the government had offered to extend last Friday’s general debate on the Bill by two hours – but that the opposition parties had turned down the request to extend Friday’s Dáil sitting to 5:30pm as a result.

Ceann Comhairle Sean Barrett attempted to proceed with business, but Boyd Barrett’s refusal to allow Kenny’s comments go unchallenged meant business had to be suspended for almost ten minutes. When it resumed, the feistiness continued prompting a further suspension of nearly 20 minutes.

Boyd Barrett could be heard speaking off-mic as business continued afterwards, loudly criticising the behaviour of the Taoiseach and trying to attract the attention of the Ceann Comhairle.

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Comments (92 Comments)

  • Kenny is a work place bully

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  • It seem,s a little disjointed in the thinking of this government that they expect leniency from Europe on the fiscal situation and yet they fail to see it from the Irish citizen,s point of view .So they just plunder on

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  • I expect nothing less from the Blueshirts and their Ceann Comhairle. They’ve shown nothing but contempt for democracy since they lied their way into power.

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  • The Blueshirt Fascist gene is running riot. Democracy no longer exists in this country and where a Democratically elected Government fails to govern democratically they should be removed by all democratic means .

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  • RBB is a natural successor where Joe Higgins left off….I may not always agree with him but he is certainly the most regular opposition speaker in the house …I applaud his application to the post.

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  • Is there any system in place where the people of this country can call a general election before its due? Genuine question this……

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    • Nope. None.
      The people voted this Government in with a massive majority I’m afraid. So little chance of a dissolution of the Dail.
      They’ll get kicked in the by election.

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    • I tell ye , as much as I hate FG and all the shite they have done , all the pain , I guarantee that they will have a giveaway budget in 2015 and we will forget about all the lies and they will get back in , if not in majority , maybe with a few independents. …………….ahhhhhhhh

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    • No there is no system for the people of Ireland to call an election but how come with all the protests No-One has protest ed for the resignation of this government,maybe we should mark St.,Patricks Day with such a protest and continue to insist on them resigning and demanding that they do not get the pension until they reach the national pension age WE NEED TO KICK THEM OUT

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  • Look, it’s the wrong time for this tax. It’s just not on and that’s why people haven’t registered.

    This one will run and run and cause more trouble than it’s worth.

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  • Well said RBB. Disgraceful the disrespect the Taoiseach has for the elected representatives of the people.

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  • kenny kenny kenny out out out

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  • Fine Gael showing their fascist roots once again…..

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  • Fine Gael and Labour – utter traitors and backstabber’s to the people of Ireland.
    When out of office, they should be stripped of all their pensions and perks!

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  • “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

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  • Fair play to Richard Boyd Barrett

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  • Johnny, when Fianna Fail took a year and a half to call two bye-elections, that’s when I knew democracy in this country was in serious trouble. There’s no system in place to keep politicians honest (politically, anyway) and there’s no accountability. It’s sad to see the country the 1916 leaders fought for in such a state. They must be turning in their graves.

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  • Kenny is a dishonest disgrace. FACT

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  • sean 05/03/13 #

    yet more evidence , that their is no democracy in ireland ,
    same aul bully boy tactics from FG
    can’t answer the question so shout down the opposition ,
    we seen the same shite the day of the debate on the liquidation of Anglo ,
    pearse doherty and stephen Donnelly had legitimate Questions, backed up with facts , and because the bullies in gov didn’t have the answer’s(and are genuinely scared of both these guys abilities in terms of brains , ideas and knowhow) they just shouted both deputies down not allowing them get a word in ,
    thats not a democracy its a farce , from a farcical government that are simply out of their depth.
    as I stated on an earlier thread , the ordinary man, woman child does not have a voice in this country = Dictatorship .

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  • Another stroke by fine Gael !!!!

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  • So their not allowed to debate now is it. We have turned into the Peoples republic of Korea. What is it they think they run? A dictatorship. Every opposing t.d. Should sit in a vow of silence in protest. Stay there for as long is necessary

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  • People of Meath save our country
    Don’t vote Fine Gael, Labour or Fianna Fáil in the forthcoming By-election

    Put on the green jersey.

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  • I don’t notice that Fianna Fail were any different. It’s down to the Ceann Comhairle and I suppose as he’s usually appointed by the Government he can use his clout for them. The system in the Dail is open to abuse from the party in government. Root and branch reform is needed but you might as well ask turkeys to vote for Christmas!

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  • John 05/03/13 #

    I have said it on here many, many times that we should takes to the streets NOW. GENERAL STRIKE thats what we need. Shut down everything for three days and this government will fall very hard. We might suffer disruption for a few days but this would be worth it and I’m sure it would be a very long time before it happens again. Successive governments would not want to cause this trouble in the future. So how about it people, lets start next Monday morning at 9am. It would be all over and done with by Wednesday and we’d have no property tax to worry about.

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  • Voting independents is the way forward. They are the only ones raising their voices against FG/LAB policies.

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    • I don’t even care who is voted in once it not any of the 3 main parties FF/G labour once they change the rotten system that is targeting the low paid, unemployed and controlling the media, that has led to some people being spoon fed gov spin and believing it. I have a friend, her daughter is living with her, she waiting to leave to find work, this family are not even really keeping their head above water, they have no fancy car, didn’t go on fancy holidays, small modest mortgage, yet they can just about afford food heat and petrol, some weeks they can’t. Yet because their daughter is living with them and working part time, they have been drastically cut! (2-3 days a week on min wage)
      This is unjust unfair and unequal. Joan burton on over 100,000 a year has cut this family.
      You can believe the spin that people on welfare live the high life that is just not true! when will people wake up that gov are playing us off each other so that we don’t unite together and realise we are all being screwed. I support the low public sector, unemployed, working poor and I also support middle income because ye will be targeted next. All we hear are figure, what about the real life consequences of these statics and figures that’s what matters.
      How this family will pay water charges, broadcasting charge and property tax is beyond me.

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    • Yes but I we vote in a loa of independents your talking serious parish politics and remember each one gets a party allowance and among others so it’s cheaper to vote for a party person tho its seems there are none of them to vote for:(

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    • SF have my vote past aside and my feeling towards it. I can’t vote for FF/G labour knowing what they have done to this family+many more. SF have my vote for now.

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    • I can’t imagine an Ireland with SF in power. It’s TOO easy to say all the right things in opposition and then sit down again and wait for your next opportunity to say what the people want to hear. They even have Mary Lou who does a great job at flapping her gums. The truth is there is NO party or parties fit to lead at present. They will ALL LIE to get in. The people must remember these pains when the next set if liars start their campaigns. They are out for the pensions and allowances and maybe the people if it serves their purposes. People singing the SF tune scare me. There really are no viable candidates to lead. SF in power means the real crazies would have their fingers in the pies.

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  • These are the clowns that are running our country! They should all be put in individual sound proof booths and only given a set amount of time to speak with an automatic shut off. They’re like children on a playground

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  • Kenny – such an ass clown.

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  • Most people live in homes, not “properties”. This proposal should be called ” The Family Home Tax “

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    • And Homes do not make an income…. And Folk who have bought their own homes have yet again took the strain from the governments and County Councils and waiting lists for homes and this what these clowns are now doing to us cos they do not have one clue as to how to balance the books…… They should be more interested in circulating money that taking all disposable income from the hard working folk And it is time for us to either call a TAX STRIKE or A NATIONAL STRIKE a national strike we will not be earning which we do not want to happen as it is not our debt that they. Are forcing on us a TAX STRIKE is where you cancel all payments to the tax man The tax maybe stopped by employers and held by them on your behalf if you so wish

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  • Hold on a minute. We don’t want a situation in which democracy might creep into the Dail. RBB could infect the Dail by introducing the views of constituents into Parliament.

    FG and Labour have a huge Dail majority, representing the majority democratic conservatism and are determined to impose the tyranny of the majority.

    The Dail is not the right forum for dissent or seeking to modify legislation.

    Obey, obey, obey.

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  • KMart 05/03/13 #

    Lay off Enda

    He cant allow reasoned debate on matters involving the Irish Tax payer coughing up more to prop up our EU overlords beloved EURO

    What would Angela say!!!!

    Enda & Co

    Since 2011, making Ireland the best small country in the world to do business in.

    (if your business is screwing Irish tax payers)

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  • John 07/03/13 #

    I have posted above that we should call a three day general strike starting Monday 11 March. I will be at the Garden of Rememberance at 9am. We still have time to stop this unjust property tax. I hope to see a very large crowd of people there. If not I will turn around and go home. So come on people this is our day to stop this tax.

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  • Boyd Barratt’s affluent constituency will be hit hard by the property tax. It is understandable why he is so upset with a charge that is common worldwide being introduced to Ireland where we have such a huge deficit between how much we spend and how much we take in from the residents of the leafy suburbs like Dun Laoighire.

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    • F**k off Arbitrasure..who cares if it’s in place in other countries? It’s unjust, we don’t want it and Enda the traitor said he wouldn’t introduce it. Stop trying to defend the indefensible..

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    • Ryan'O 05/03/13 #

      Dun laoighaire is a far streach from the leafy suburbs of donnybrook. Richard BB represents the likes of lower mountown and the likes……AKA not the Hamilton’s so get your facts right arb that’s glibmore’s patch.

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    • Calm down property tax is not a crazy idea. You may be for it or against it but all this unmitagated rage it is bit silly. Tax’s have to be paid some how and a lot would argue that it is better to raise it on property rather than labour as it does not disincentivise people from working. Seriously some people need to grow up and look at things like an adult. All this uneducated and populist ranting is one of the reasons we are in this mess.

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    • Grow up and open your eyes fella a huge amount of people simply don’t have any disposable income to pay this tax. Do you want people to go into even more debt just to prevent them being procecuted. Fine Gael solution for those who can’t pay is to defer the payment and add 4% interest to the bill continously. Its a unfair tax and the way their implement in the dail is disgraseful. Don’t forget fine gael themselves condemed taxing the home prior to them stealing the last election with lies.

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    • It’s not uneducated and populist ranting. It’s that people have looked at their bank balance and have seen that they CAN’T pay it. You obviously are still in a position to pay somehow,lucky you others aren’t. Wealth tax we have a regressive tax system in Ireland. The wealthy pay a lot less considering the proportion of the wealth in this country they have.and pay overall 9% in vat while lower contribute 20% vat . People are angry because we can see how unjust and unfair our government are.
      If you had to chose between paying this unfair tax or feeding your children which would you pick? Would you be angry about it?

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    • How did uneducated populist ranting get us in this mess. I think it was brown envelopes, Galway tents, tribunals, rushed legislation in the dead if the night, bad negotiators in government, self interest, greed, power trips, egos etc that got us into this.

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    • Grow up and open my eyes? How about putting forward a rational and thought out argument instead of the usual generics. How do you propose to reduce the deficit? Its a zero sum game. The last thing we need is the free lunch brigade arguing for lower tax at the same time as arguing that we maintain public pay and service levels. Populists like RBB are either stupid or deceitful. Have we learned nothing from our mistakes.

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    • Adelle ,I really think you are an oasis of sanity. This Journal comment section has been taken over by unmitigated troll ( mythical horror creatures). There have been flaws in the past ,we all know it. There may be current , and future flaws ,we all know it. However ,it is dreadful to see the same trolls raise their ugly heads and venomous comments solely to incite hatred and vent stupid , vile comments against everything. They are the real culprits. Some politicians FG/FF/LAB/SF/ et al really are trying their best and achieving it. I am sick of the negative vitriol I am seeing in these columns. They are preventing more honest people from commenting , as they do not wish to be subject to ignorant people. Please , rational Journal readers ,just add your names to condemning such childish tantrums.

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    • Wasn’t that long ago I was an ignorant FF voter, clueless and didn’t care about people suffering it was all about the figures numbers statistics deficit targets. Until I got an eye opener. I will give my vote to SF I don’t think they will let people suffer and I think they know that the economy is in a mess, it will be fixed not delayed for another government, it will be democratic and fair and will not send people into poverty. If they don’t I gave it a shot, better than giving my vote too the know liars FF FG labour I like the independents too.

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    • sean 05/03/13 #

      @john reduce the deficit
      lets see
      TD’s(166 of them ) salaries , pensions and expenses per year comes to in excess of 51m eur (thats not including any of the retired tosser’s that wrecked the country)
      county councillors EXPENSES ONLY comes to in excess of 20m per year ……………….f..k knows what their combined salaries comes to per year
      we still pay 1bn a year to FAS (for what exactly )
      and well as for the rest of the Quangos …..john delany head of the FAI 360,000 pa , etc etc etc etc , waste waste , waste
      Gov jet ,ipads , new fleet of cars ,
      683m per year on foreign aid
      81m to fee paying schools
      87m to the catholic church
      Levy on Bankers Bonuses ,
      3rd rate of income tax on earner’s over 120,000 pa
      political advisors ……………..howmuch do they cost , do we elect them to gov , no , so not needed
      enforce corporations to pay the full 12.5 corporation tax instead of allowing them to exploit loopholes and ending up paying just 3 to 5% ,
      and well , the HSE and the PS with its layers upon layers upon layers of mgmt and needless advisors and executives ,

      Sort of that out , and we are well on our way , no need for silly taxes ,
      if there was the political will and desire to sort all of the above out , i’m sure the people of the country would not mind paying an extra 1/1.5% in income tax.

      instead FG simply want to kill off the working people

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    • @ John McCarthy your comment ” The last thing we need is the free lunch brigade ” + ” Populists like RBB are either stupid or deceitful. ”

      This statement shows how simplistic the right wing still are regarding the crisis. Its a disgrace to call the irish people the “free lunch brigade ” people that probably went to college off their own backs paid their taxes for years until career politicians and bankers backed by uninformed yes men like yourself destroyed the economy they worked so hard to help create.

      AS for RBB being populist. The current government were the most populist crowd I’ve ever heard, promising every little whim to the voters knowing full well they would never deliver on them all to get their hands on a Dail pension…. so don’t give it all that.

      This country has to be sorted out for the good of the people not the financial institutions! And taxing the wealthy and making companies pay their proper rate of tax ie:12.5% and not turning a blind eye when the likes of google pay next to nothing. I hope you don’t lose you job because it would be some climb down for you to switch to the left when you lost your car & home. There’s lot’s of alternatives that could be implemented for the benefit of the people but the right wing pretend not to hear them and instead say the left is offering no solutions.

      I say again open your eyes.

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  • Little Richard should get up from his seat and stand up for the the people.. Oh hang on he is standing!!

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  • Anyone know what the 67 proposed amendments were that the Opposition didn’t want to debate last week?

    Or are we just here to rant.

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    • I’m not usually here to defend FG, but it does seem a bit odd to refuse 2 hours, then complain that there isn’t time to debate. Great PR by RRB if that was his intention. It’s certainly worked on this site.

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  • It seems odd for Boyd Barrett to refuse two additional hours on Friday and then use up the allocated time with spurious objections.

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  • The government had previously offered extra time on this which was refused.

    Clearly Boyd Barratt prefers to await his moment and create the fake theatre that he isn’t being listened to, rather than accept the prior offer of more time.

    I’ll give him credit; this illusion of his being censored does draw ill-informed people to support him. Quite wily our Rich.

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  • Richard Boyd Barrett’s behaviour was disgraceful.

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  • Boyd Barrett…surprised he’s even in the Dail. Usually protesting about something. One of these ‘against all policies’ cowboys. In the midst of all this rhetorical nonsense he’s forgotten to tell us what he’s actually in favour of.

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  • Don’t like the property (then again who does). But I cannot help be perplexed by a left wing TD campaigning against a property tax. The landlords of Ireland will be sleeping soundly knowing that Deputy Boyd Barrett and his self serving Tea Party movement will protect their interests!

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  • http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2012/12/inconveniently-for-you-evidence-shows-rich-already-squeezed/

    You see Adelle there is no pot of gold to solve our problems. We already have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world. Do you think the IMF will leave and leave their money if only we would ask them nicely or go on strike? We need solutions not just anger we owe future generations that much.

    Reply

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