There are no plans to increase the property tax and water rates. As Brian Hayes has hinted at recently, they’re the last of the main tax reforms to be introduced. Likewise this deal is the last ask from the public sector. Once these measures are through we’re on course to getting our deficit under control and an end to austerity.

David, I object to property tax and water charges because we don’t need them (and so do the majority of Irish). The government needs to cut spending instead of property tax / water charges. Cut government spending and compensate by abolishing property tax and water charges. A low-tax low-spend economy.

Councils will set there own level by a range of +/- 15% in 2015, my guess is it won’t be a minus figure.Once water charges are introduced any number of reasons to raise them will be used.

Jesus David they have ur head rightly twisted if u thinking that be the end off it ..wise up..that shower be outa government by then don’t belive there promises..just wat happened too there promises made before they we’re elected

@David:
“no plans”
“hinted at”

All been heard before…..

David you must really have your head in the clouds if you think property charges won’t increase, once there in the will go up regularly.. we will be robbed that bit more for having a roof over our head every year. Look at them pilling tax in fuel, the single item that will effect the cost of everything in the economy.. They don’t care how much blood they spill getting their pound of flesh .

No David is a politician in training. Hes on here to practice how to bull$**t, lie and spread disinformation like the multimillionaire sociopaths we have in the Dail.

So we’re supposed to believe anything Howlin is saying?
This after they reneged on the Croke Park Deal which is not due to end for another year? This is after all the other broken fcken promises?
Lets face it your crowd of muppets would have tried to cut the bejazuz out of the public service in good times, good little thatcherite tory wannabes that you are – theyre just using these bad time to push through their selfish evil agenda.

Now would you believe a word from these liars mouths, not one red cent was to be paid back to anglo, 5 point plan 100,000 jobs my arse, the water will be privatized like everything else. This country is easy pickings for outside interests. They crippled us with cheap money now its hand over the keys time

Ha ha ha ha ha…. You sound like you actually believe that! Jeez you just lap up the government propaganda hook line and sinker don’t you, like the government and the other rightwingers you obviously have no clue of the real causes or the sheer depth of this crisis, if you think 1 that austerity will actually get us out of this mess and 2 that they is likely to be soon than you truely are deluded. The eurozone crisis will take another nose dive having huge implications for Ireland and the government will act all shocked and say things like no-one saw it coming etc than what more austerity and pay cuts because they don’t have the balls to do what’s really necessary ad it would involve going against the EU elite

The ‘last ask’ until the next time!!
How do you know a politician is lying??
The dirty rats lips are moving!!!

Just so we’re absolutely clear on what David Higgins is actually saying.

There will be no increase in property tax in 2014. There is no commitment whatsoever after 2014 and there is provision in the legislation for local authorities to vary the amount of tax charged from 2015 onwards.

So David, you are, to say the least, spoofing!

Facism does not have to look like Hitlers Germany anymore.

Reginald, u don’t want to pay water or property tax? But u said the country is broke… Are u now saying ” let someone else pay???” Thought you were all for taxing and cutting…,

If you believe what politicians tell you, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.

I am somewhat sceptical of any promise given by Government at the moment.

How could you trust anybody in the Dail, der all two faced, tell us one thing one week and do the opposite the following week

Classic ^^^

Boo

Public sector workers are entitled to annual wage increases, and, (in Teachers cases) approx three months of vacation each year. That’s in addition to paid sick days, emergency leave days, and paid personal days, curiously.

Not to mention every holiday is paid and off. You are supposedly paid over time if you work on the weekend (whatever happened to time and a half?)

You know, I don’t blame the unions for these sweetheart deals.
I blame those that sign the contracts. Union members are there to get the best deal possible. Politicians seem to not be able to say no.

It reminds me of the screaming 5 year old in the candy aisle. Do I blame the child for asking for chocolate? or shall I blame the parent for purchasing?

A Reginald, cutting and pasting your comments now… You really are a teoll

Troll.. Spellcheck

I agree Nocturnal …A bit like Travellion’s Corn !

After retirement from my city, a 60 year-old firefighter gets a pension and health benefits for the rest of his days. If he chooses to marry before his death – even at 86 years old, his new “wifey” will curiously continue to receive lifetime health benefits and a pension long after he’s gone.

More cutting and pasting there regonald

If the deficit is lowered, it has to be positive on the public purse.

Theres numerous ways to lower the deficit without taking money off people who spend every penny in the domestic economy. We are putting our recovery more at risk by doing so.

That is the most accurate post I have seen in a while.

And replaced with who? Another party that imposes reforms on public sector pay?!

I’d settle for reforms on public sector, leave my pay alone until you fix the system, then target pay all you like.

It’s still a bit rich quite frankly, how the hell does Howlin know for sure what the economy will be doing in 5 years? Definitely the “last ask” my arse, it’s all guesswork.

As much as Labour have let us down, and I am disgusted, Fg would have been a lot harsher left alone.
As for Ff, they cut disability during the better times!
Be careful what you wish for.

Mark – you often get asked but I’ve never seen you answer….

Who do you propose? Or is it anarchy you propose?

FF cut disability,FG/Lab cut Child Allowance,respite care grant i could go on but whats the point.The only difference between these 3 parties are their names.

Shayne, I don’t think cutting disability was Ffs downfall, more the throwing cash at people and more than doubling state welfare payments.. half the reason we’re in the sh!t now.

Government employees were given raises in most cases during the boom years.

I’m not suggesting that. I’m merely pointing out that if Ff justified cutting disability when things were good what do you think they would have done this year..

Frontline workers were not and yet now they are being asked to contribute the most, again how is this fair?

FF FG LAB are all in bed with the banks and bondholders in fact they are the bond.holders

A recent survey between the Republic and the six counties on a government worker revealed our pay levels were “complicated” and more “expensive” than up north.

Whats the cost of living up North like Reg,you know tax,food etc.

Their cost is actually MORE compared to here, overall.

Go live there then…

Is there going to be anything written into this agreement saying there wont be Croke Park 3 in 2015?

Actually, I’m guessing the productive sector will benefit by this reform otherwise taxes would simply be passed onto private sector workers. Public sector pay is still largely in deficit because the country is spending money it doesn’t really have. At least that’s the conclusion many economists have come to.

Howlin started out yesterday by 1. Firstly blaming the previous shower for the state of the country they inherited.(you knew what was coming wasn’t good) 2. This is a very complicated . The condescending yoke,( no one except a union head earning half a mil plus could understand it ). And the biggest lie of all 3. it dose not targate frontline services. Even poorly paid nobody’s on the front line can see it clearly targates them, Mr howlin , minister, sir, god bless ya, thanks.

But Gerry, the last administration were throwing out money in the form of tax breaks, wage increases etc all to garner votes all through the Celtic Tiger years. It IS their fault that we now have to reign in all this extra money that we shouldn’t have been getting in the first instance. Of course the problem now is that inflation rose with the wage increases, so that cutting back on the wages now means that we can’t afford things that used to be a lot cheaper, like 50 inch plasma TVs, playstations, lazyboy recliner chairs, conservatories, 4x4WD SUVs, super-deluxe baby buggies, massive fridges, ride-on lawnmowers, designer baby clothes (seriously?), iphones for our schoolkids and now iPads too…

Mark this just takes money out of people pockets nobody on less than 40k has any savings so that20 € cut for every Sunday worked is 20€ less spent in local shops how many jobs that going to cost

Ah yes my friend , but the have’ s will still have all those luxuries , while the ordinary worker is plunged back into the ‘have not’ era of 1950’s Ireland , Ast it should be in many people’s minds, maybe even yours..

Shes not trolling particularly well either.

Oh, please!!! Government employees were given raises before to make up for the freeze. How is making more than a private sector job a step in the right direction? My pay has been frozen for 3 years — how is the government pay freeze good compared to mine?

Aren’t you self employed Regeonald? Is that not the risk that comes with being self employed? Were you not aware of such well known risks when you chose your employment? When the economy does eventually recover will you not be one of the first to benefit from it as I am sure you did in the Celtic Tiger era? Surely if you think the public sector have it so easy whilst you have it so hard you should consider a change of employment?

Your pay Regonald? Welfare does not count as pay.

“Government employees were given raises before to make up for the freeze.”

Must have missed that one reg, when did that happen?

Ahhh regonald…just gonna call ya reggie, ya certainly do seem to be trollin on all these public pay cuts.. so, your saying your pay has been frozen for 3 years??? That does differ from been ‘cut’ and getting more cuts all the time, reduction in overtime, etc…
Head away there to another forum like a good lad.

Regonald did you or did you not say in another post that your pay had taken ‘cuts’ in the last three years? Now you say you it was a freeze. Which is it? You must be the most annoying attention seeking troll on this site. Never a constructive comment from you and never a comment on any other issue.

Looks like poor auld Reggie’s brain has been frozen for the last three years also.
Creatur!

Maybe Regonald’s pay has been frozen/cut due to him doing no other work than trolling!!

Where is the equity when new Nurses are on less than existing Nurses? How is that fair?

Yeah, reg, because we can tell from your other posts that you’re all about fairness for the nurses.

He will claim it back in expenses

Worse. He’s a member of young fine gael, who proudly used to parade a photo of himself and dame edna kenny as his avatar. Stick around, you see him valiantly excuse every shameful act of imorality and criminality by the grown ups in his beloved party.

Conor – you’re friends in the private sector are very lucky. I too have friends in the private sector, some working for multi-nationals. Some have had pay cuts, most have had pay freezes and I’ve heard of no bonuses or pay increases. I can also say, that in many areas, the salaries being applied to new roles are substantially less than they were 5 or 6 years ago.

I have no comment really about the public sector though I did work in it myself a few years ago. I’m sure most there are moderately paid and do an honest day’s work for their salary. The only thing that strikes me as absurd – given that their employer is broke and on an EU/IMF life line – is that increments are being paid!! If a private sector employer was in the same predicament they would probably not be operating and they certainly wouldn’t be reviewing salaries in an upward direction – which is essentially what an increment is.

The private sector is free to pay people whatever they want. What are you advocating?

In my previous private sector job – after earning a Diploma and Degree in the same field – I had worked my way up to the heady heights of 21k two years later. Plenty of similarly qualified people at the same workplace worked unpaid internships with no guarantee of an eventual job offering.

Did I “deserve” to earn more money than 21k because of my qualifications in a skilled role? Of course not; the employer set the salary based on supply and demand and based on his or her own means. I signed the contract, did the job and I eventually found a better paying opportunity.

I’m sure your Garda partner is more qualified in their role and works a lot harder than your friend but you just can’t compare (or advocate change, which would be hoping for a centrally planned economy) private and public salaries like for like as the very definition of the former – private – implies that it’s none of the government’s business.

31000 before tax, pension and all the other money taken out = over 30%. Then there is the fact that there is no permanent contracts been given so actually no new teacher is on that wage. Stop believing spin and read for yourself.

Yeesh, why the hostility Karolyn? There was nothing remotely personal or insulting in what I posted to you.

I’m not “crying” to you either; I was using my own experience to point out that in the private sector your pay will always be based on your employer’s means and the supply and demand in that sector – not simply qualifications, respective contribution to society or how hard you work in comparison to other industries.

Your partner’s employer – the govt – is having to cut costs and your friend’s employer – private enterprise – isn’t. That’s why one is earning more than the other.

people wake up they are trying to divide us public v private its us v them and their bonholders and banker buddies we as a nation are under attack .

Uncalled for attack there really. Emmet really wasn’t having a go he was just stating fact. Didn’t hold you up in the greatest of lights.
New teachers and new nurses are actually exactly equal when it comes to pay. They are also pretty equal in employment opportunities. One can’t get a job and the other can’t touch the job.
In the end though Dermot is correct.

Ever think of counselling?

Carnage even

Compared to Greece (where public sector pay was cut by up to 60%), I fail to buy your argument.

Man we are not in Greece ! We do not live in Greece , if you want to go to go to Greece by all means please go !

Such comparisons cannot be made until you state what they earned prior to such cuts in comparison to their cost of living and then do the same math in relation to Ireland

“Compared to Greece…..”

Love how the apologists for this government love to compare Ireland to Greece, until we mention that Greece got a writeoff of its debt, debt that was actually incurred by the sovereign. Then its all ‘YOU CAN’T COMPARE IRELAND TO GREECE…TOTALLY DIFFERENT…..BLAH BLAH BLAH”

Reggae, in 2010 the OECD published report stating that in ireland the cost of public sector pay was 11.2% of GNP… The euro average is…. Wait for it… A whopping 11.1%…

Hardly paid over the odds then are we?

Facts reggie, facts :)

So tax increases should only apply to private sector employees – whose taxes fund the public sector?

People on 65k are not the ones I am talking about and are not the only ones who will be effected with pay cuts, try looking at the frontline workers or the hospital porter who works night all on the lower end of the pay scale and all looking at approx 8% paycut. I will refrain from commenting on your ‘horseshit’ comment as it just highlights your intelligence levels

They’ll be laughing at the frontliners too (albeit for getting shafted… Yet again).

But it’s not a fair cut, I’m at the lower end of the spectrum and will probably take more of a cut than them. I’ll certainly feel it more anyway

Why not abolish public sector increments also.

People at the bottom wrungs of the sector will not be bothered by the bosses taking a hit (well deserved) I sincerely doubt any of those will laugh at the front liners taking a hit….seeing as the bottom end are the front liners doc.

If your 65 grand your not at the bottom end of anything, 22 grand is the bottom, and if u are there you are not being cut, save for sunday premium pay.

It’s a terrible deal for anyone on shift work. The more you look at it you discover your even more screwed. Extra hour here, less for staying on when you can’t go, a lump payment or lose holidays and no incentive to come and cover a shift when needed too because once you paid nearly 67% of it back is it really worth losing what little quality family time we have.

Nurses fought hard for similar hours to others in the public service, this deal keeps the difference in hours, 39 hrs for all would be fairer, if that’s the way you want to go

I am one of those nowhere near 65,000 and yes we are loosing out. Unsocialable hours gone, Sunday premium cut, increments frozen, longer working week for no extra means reduction in hourly rate. Waiting for the fine print to see is there stipulations I’m night duty allowance. Overtime rates cut for which I have to do when it’s available it already only makes a minor but required difference to my pay.

@Paul… Sunday increments… twilight hours… An extra 1.5hrs/wk for nurses (For most it’ll be 1.5hrs less overtime, as most go above their contracted hours)… An 5hrs/wk for NCHD’s (For most it’ll be 5hrs less overtime, as most go above their contracted hours)… It’s very fair altogether… Very fair…

We have a Public/Private sector divide which has been encouraged by vested interests, now it appears a divide is being developed in the Public sector.Divide and conquer works everytime.

It’s neither such or fair when some staff how earn 38000 ate taking a 8% cut in there take home pay and somebody on 75000 taking 5.5%

Jenny there was always going to be a split in the public sector. The frontline shift workers are taking the brunt of the hit whilst the 9 to 5 workers are mostly unaffected. Two sets of public sector workers looking for two different outcomes. A split was inevitable. Of course the 9 to 5ers are going to be in favour of Sunday cuts and twilight payment cuts which is part of shift workers core pay. I’m in favour of teachers working an extra month a year, would they back me on that? Not a hope!!!

My point is the split is being encouraged,if your fighting with each other the unions who sold ye out along with the government get to sit back and watch.

Not all of the public sector can be represented by unions, the Gardai can’t even get involved in the talks relating to their pay!!!! Farcical

Troll

Guards will take 8% cut so will nurses with nights cut. This in not a fair deal

The bottom end is being hit, albeit indirectly through increased working hours and reduced annual leave. Those at the top of lower grade payscales are being hit more because their salaries are being cut. Remember those at the bottom end of the public service didn’t get any of the perks and bonuses that abounded in the private sector during the Celtic Tiger. There are no under the table payments in the public sector either, not now nor during the Celtic Tiger.

Why not just get rid of the public sector altogether or make it a Voluntary Service…… Reggie…..the work they do isnt very important by the sounds of ur comments anyway !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why dont u enlighten us all Reggie & tell us what ur PRIVATE sector job is??? Ur staying very quiet on that one.

Wasting your time bex. The lad is unemployed. Might get a job in the next Hobbit movie as the worlds biggest troll!!! Gripping stuff, just make sure he has a few anti public sector lines in it. Harry price can be his right hand man…whoops!

It is a very bad deal Paul. Working an extra 4 hours a week for no pay, if you have kids this will increase childcare costs. The only option is to vote against this unfair proposal.

It’s moving it back three months. What happens if someone has agreed to pay more off a loan/mortgage based on this expected increment?

Over the course of your career, you will lose out on several years increments, this is just a wrapped up version of the truth to make it seem like you’re not, after four years by right you should be on a fifth increment, however by delaying the increment every three months it is due you will be only getting four, if you do this over 30 years you will be getting increments suitable for 24 years losing out on 6 years which is quite substantial plus the Celtic Tiger showed us that once the economy does recover the public sector will be the very last to benefit and see a small part of these cuts restored and that will only be after fighting a hard fight to get them and by that stage we will be back on a downturn, once these cuts are in they will never be reversed unlike what happens in the private sector

The increments automatically go back to 12 month periods at the end pt the deal so saying you will lose 6 over 30 years is scaremongering. And increments are linked to PMDS so are not garaunteed in the normal course anyway. If you have renegotiated then it means your bank thinks the your mortgage/loan os viable and will be willing to negotiate again when you make them aware of the circumstances

I haven’t seen the Croke Park II Agreement, only going by what I have read in the media and I have not seen that it was agreed that the freeze on increments was only to last the time of the agreement, I in no way intend to scare monger as I know firsthand the effect of the pressure of these cuts are having on people, it is merely my interpretation of how increment freezes will be used to save money. As I’ve previously stated I do not believe a word the government says so I am very hesitant to believe that these increment freezes will be reversed

If you do not wish to scaremonger, you should not post such comments on a public forum when you do not have the facts. (Which you admit you do not). Whether the Government is to be believed or not foes not change the details of the agreement. Obviously there are some sections of the civil service this will affect more than others but considering that some €400m is to be saved from high earners, this appears to be fair. That is a small group of people contributing a large portion of the savings. And yes I am a civil servant, with a mortgage. And no im not a high earner so I will feel the pinch too but an across the board cut would be much more unfair on the lower scale workers.

Have you seen the Croke Park II Agreement in full yourself Simon? If not you also do not have all the facts. I was simply showing how such savings are being made regardless of whether this ends at the end of the agreement, it will still have a significant impact long term, for everyone. Those on the higher end will lose 3 increments which they will never see again, this in turn will effect the pension they will be entitled to. Those on the mid scale will lose out on 2 increments during the course of the agreement which will once again effect pensions, 1 increment for low scale will again effect pension. If you factor in the cuts to allowances on top and cuts to overtime this will also have an adverse effect on the pension recieved. Whilst you may be a civil servant you clearly are not in the minority who work shiftwork because if you were you would not agree that the increment freeze is a good compromise when you factor in all the other cuts and the effect that these will have on your pension in the end. Just because I am not downplaying the reality does not mean I am scaremongering

While I have not seen it, I have received a briefing note from my union which outlined a number of the conditions. Why are you still persisting with the myth that increments will be lost? It is true that those over 65,000 will lose three increments, however everyone else will not. Their increments are merely deferred for three months. This is NOT losing an increment. As such the only pensions affected will be those over €65k. (An extra 3/6 month period will have been worked for the same pension as previously would have been obtained). Your understanding of how this works appears to be slightly flawed. Due to the nature of my job I shall keep my opinions on allowances to myself.

How can you say increments wont be lost if you delay said increments every three months for the term of the agreement you will lose one increment, it’s simple math and to say otherwise is a myth spun by people who just want this agreement. It’s people such as yourself you are willing to accept an agreement being changed after you have complied with it and before it is due for review that are the reason the government keep coming back for more. Your opinion on allowances does not interest me in the slightest although however which way you argue it those doing shiftwork will pay more than those who are not and whilst a cross the board cut is not fair neither is this

Do you honestly think before you write? You do not lose an increment, it is just delayed, you will still get that increment, just three months later than you would have. I digress, this is like banging my head off a wall. Please have your union rep explain the details to you before you vote.

Bahahahahaha! Have ya anymore good jokes??
Not one clue have you got about what your talking about!

@DavidDonnelly David can you back that up? In what respect do I not know what I’m talking about? This is the problem with you guys and the despicable rudeness that we are now seeing from those in the public sector, anyone who disagrees with you, you try to ridicule. Back up what you are saying or maybe don’t make a comment at all if the horse shít below is the standard of the argument that you can bring to the discussion.

‘Protected’ ‘do not know what hardship is’ ‘do not have to take personal responsibility’ what world are you living in???? Do you have any clue what the public sector actually do? Do you have any clue how many have lost/are facing losing their homes because of the ‘protection’ they have already recieved? Have you any clue how much their incomes were ignored during the boom whilst yours went through the roof and how they’ll be ignored once again when recovery eventually happens whilst you will benefit immensely? If you’re going to comment on something at least have the decency to know what you’re talking about and then some will engage in an intelligent debate. Telling nurses, doctors, paramedics, Gardai and firefighters that they do not have any personal responsibility is idiocy at best, pure ignorance at worst.

If you’re going to correct people and make snide remarks while doing so, make sure you don’t make any mistakes yourself. It just makes you look silly.

You forgot to close your second set of double quotes.

Predictive text would be to blame rather than education, one would imagine