I’m sure she does her best but she is unqualified for the job.

Very informative post Mary and I hope it dosn’t fall on deaf ears.

@ Ciaran … Doing her best is not good enough when the lives of people are in her hands . And if she is under qualified she should be removed . I have nothing personal against this Minister as I know for a fact that as a politician she has done great work for the people of Cork . But mental health is not something you can ‘play’ with !

Why is “mental health” treated differently from health? Is it not like my mind/brain is detached from the rest of the body?

To take from the Labour webpage Minister Kathleen Lynch is:

Minister of State, Department of Health and Department of Justice, Equality & Defence with responsibility for Disability, Older People, Equality & Mental Health

Also I do not see why Psychiatric nursing has to be different from General Nursing. What is that about? General nurses seem to know sweet fa about mental health and vice versa. I am going by experience.

If people are going through trauma and distress, they need a safe place where they can be listened to. An “asylum” should be a place of refuge. And not a place of torture and persecution, which is the case in some Psychiatric hospitals. Which seem to be just a place where the drug pushing cult that is mainstream Psychiatry can pedal their drugs. And yes some drugs can help short term ie tranquilizers, but long term can be damaging.

Here is Professor David Healy talking about how the negative trials of “anti-depressants” are hidden by Big Pharma. Well done for all his hard work.

“Time to abandon evidence based medicine?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3YB59EKMKw

[Never stop of change medication without consult a good doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

“mental health issues are a serious threat to everyone” Do you really believe this? Do you mean that everyone is at risk of developing a “mental health issue”?

Pay and pensions maybe, did they say?

Apologies toghermore Hse is in tuam co Galway.

Wouldn’t be the first time.. There’s a nursing home in Bray with the same story – think it was called the Orchard? Spent loads of money upgrading everything, the residents were really happy and then it got shut down.
Residents split up and sent to whichever nursing homes had room for them. I met one who had ended up on the other side of Dublin – she was missing her friends and was now much further away from her family.. Gotta admit – it was a great move on the HSEs part, fit in really well with their agenda of waste and callousness.

8 million spent on Roscommon A&E and Kenny and Reilly closed it down just within 4 months of taking office

@Bernadette They should have close down the Psych unit instead and diverted the money to A&E! I have very valid reasons for what I say.

Don’t apologise. You made valid points and your “rant” is justified.

Outside the normal “up’s & down’s” of life I have thankfully been spared the mental illness but I have some friends that suffer from depression and one is bi polar. They are really great at communicating with me,many’s the night I have spent on the phone to them asking and begging that they don’t take things to the extreme.
I try hard to understand and try to be there for them.
I watch my P’s & Q’s in case I say the wrong thing .
In fairness they will let me know if it’s a good or bad day but my heary goes out to them.
I wish more could be done and better resorces made available.

I think the trick of “not taking things to extreme” for someone with “Bipolar” is to:

a) learn as much as you can about this condition (but not necessarily from the medical model
perspective ie drugs)
b) become self-aware, as sometimes awareness is lost during an “episode” eg with money
c) not to be seduced by the “high”
d) avoid alcohol or street drugs. Alcohol is like adding fuel to the fire
e) learning about WRAP (Wellness Recover Action Plan) and have a plan. 4 parts to this presentation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6R2izza9lQ
f) develop self confidence and a sense of Self (see Dr Terry Lynch’s book Selfhood with exercises)
g) have a support network
h) work on mental health and relaxation daily eg daily meditation
http://www.trainyourbrainmeditation.com/Starting_a_meditation_practice.html
i) watch diet and sugar intake
j) Take a good quality multi-vitamin (without Copper)
k) drink enough water
l) stay hopeful for RECOVERY

[Never stop or change medication without consulting a (good) doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

m) work on hormonal balance/PMS
n) exercise

We need more than that…a new mind set. None of the other gobsh*tes would do it differently.

True, and mental health is a much easier target than cancer, say. Fair play to Sinn Fein for not letting it lie.

Couldn’t agree more problem is who do you put in surely not fianna fail again we badly need a real alternative

Do you know something….I have never voted FF instead I went the stupid way and voted FG. Next time round I’d gladly vote FF over FG…..and I’m not alone. FF robbed the country from within, FG are robbing us for europe’s benefit alone! That is the only difference. Interesting that the birds are talking if a FF/SF coalition?! One things for sure FG won’t see a second term and even their die hard followers are saying the same!
Red thumb if you want anyone other than FG in power, green if your happy to be sold to a bondholder in Europe?!

Watched a program on TV last night about an island off the coast of Ireland where all the young people left it.

The thought struck me. What if 500,000 private sector workers emigrated from Ireland. Who’d pay for the CPA? The private sector workers left would be paying 100% tax.

It’s a scary prospect but not an unrealistic one. FG /Lab will not tackle the CPA. So we continue to take more and more from the private sector to support their unsustainable life styles. Something’s got to give…

Mike
I really don’t care about you attitude to the present Government as you so frequently post what can only be described as populist criticism while continually calling for an election. However, I really take issue with your continuous use of swear words and personalised attacks. Any chance that on a subject like the one being discussed that you might use a couple of brain cells to realise that it is unacceptable. I think you have been asked before to explore the English language a little bit more when posting but you seem to be hard of hearing!

Said the man making his own personal attack. !

Michael J Collins.
You sir are a known troll and have been reported on more than one occasion as being a multi account holder.
If you don’t like my way of speaking my mind then I suggest you ever so kindly **** *** and stalk/bully (as you seem so good at) someone else. I am a taxpayer/voter/worker in this country and I am entitled to voice my opinion.
Now as I suggested before would you kindly ask my re-productive organs and please annoy someone else.

Mike
Read below and see what one reader says about you…..” what a horrible excuse for a person you are”
Am I wrong Mike to challenge you over your foul mouthed descriptions of our elected Members of Government. Is it wrong to challenge you over behaviour that has already been outed as cyber bullying and likely to have resulted in tragic consequences for children and adults recently. Could you not act in a slightly more adult fashion and somehow find some moral compass for yourself in future postings.

@ michael j collins.
Could you please tell me where I made any refrence to the accusation you have just made.
I have read the post and I have not made any reference to suiside and nor would I.
Now I ask you once more to kindly stop trying to provoke a rise out of me.
You constantly troll all topics with a view to stirring trouble.

Ah Michael / Paddy / Mark Rodgers..

There’s this thing called freedom of speech. Mike can say what he likes, you may of course challenge him – but you have no right to try and silence him, nor may you tell him to stop. He has not used any personal attack in this comment, he has said what many people feel about this government in general.

I’m offended by your constant trolling and hypocrisy, but I can’t stop it. I can report your most offensive comments to the journal moderators – as you do have a penchant for breaking the comments policy rules of attacking other posters, but you are entitled to post whatever you like too.

Remember, if you want to make comments about people’s mental health status or attempt to bully them, then Mile can use as many asterisked swear words as he likes and criticise the government to his hearts content. That’s freedom of speech.

If you expect him or anyone else to shit up when you tell them to then perhaps you should too.

*shut up, typo..

Couldn’t agree more Mary

i got out of the system, in very much the same way. i am out now for good and never wish to go back, my creativity, my love of nature, a quiet and gentle acceptance of who i am is what gets me by. though it is hard as i am now very disabled, but i commend all who are brave enough to try effect change through safer more kinder ways than that of the Irish Mental Health Systems.

@ mr boots … That’s a very courageous story . Good luck for the future .

@Robin Boots.
That is perhaps the most harrowing and disturbing posts I have ever read.
I sincerly wish you well for 2013 and beyond.
I am infuriated at the flippant and controling nature you are treated and it is nothing short of criminal behaviour on their part.
Words cannot discribe my feelings of anger and contempt for them.

I am a Miss. A woman :) 1000s of stories like mine in Ireland, as outlined in the “Behind the Walls” series on RTE, which went through some of the history of Psychiatry in Ireland. In Summer 2008, I had not endangered my own life or those around me. I spent money and went religious etc My friend’s brother had taken his own life and that had affected me.

But an ambulance, 2 police, and a swarm of Psychiatric nurses and ambulance staff arrived on my doorstep and carted me away. So this Psychiatric abuse is going on to this very day. But I am a SURVIVOR and survive because of support from a few close friends and the warmth and love of other Psychiatric SURVIVORS. Lots of stories like mine and some far worse. With a few exceptions, some of who I mentioned above, avoid Psychiatrists like the plague. There has to be a better way. Or Slí Eile.

Fair dues for sharing your story Robin, and I wish you only the best in the coming year.

I too am a survivor of the “mental health system”, although thankfully my father always considered psychiatry to be quackery and would not consent to my internment when Venlafaxine made me hypomanic.
I did almost die from the side effects of Citalopram though. Like yourself, the discovery about the level of fraud in this area left me incensed. I have watched too many friends follow me down that path because of these drugs – and NONE of us was offered talk therapy first, we were all just written a prescription and sent on our way (got bumped up the counselling waiting list after a suicide attempt though!)

Why so much money is wasted on these drugs is beyond me, the EVIDENCE shows that they are worthless – no better than placebo, even the better results with severe to extreme depression is thought to relate more to the reduced response to placebo in these patients than the effectiveness of the drugs (Kirsch et al, http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045)
So why are they the first and frequently only mode of treatment?
Considering that these drugs are related to violence, suicide, mania and psychosis in varying degrees (see drug information leaflets) surely these risks outweigh the negligible benefits and they should be withdrawn from the market, or at least have their use severely curtailed for this reason?

Never be afraid to speak up. You don’t know who you’ll touch.

i am a survivor of the mental health system. I have not a good word to say about how Ireland treats those who are vulnerable and who suffer from emotional, psychological and mental health stressors.
in my case of misdiagnosis from being a vulnerable young woman with asperger, decades on very very heavy medication with a verbal apology i shall never get over the inhumane treatment i have received under the guise of mental health service.
that said, this doesnt mean the service should be deprived of funding, monies syphoned away for the use of other sick people in other departments, to shore up mismanagement of the account books of the HSe and the Department of health.
the whole system of mental health needs radical reform. i was a signatory and hard worker on the volume ‘vision for change’ but thats all it remains.
as a result of being in the mental health system, i am now branded when having to deal with A’E and also consultants i now need to see as i am severely ill and disabled.
i fear with all my heart that i will finally be trolleyed to the corner of an A’E department and left to die.
this has happened me on more than one occassion.
my self injury scars are testamony to distress, not insanity. but to the medics i am worthless, and an economic waste of time.
how dare, Ireland, the overseers under the eye of Ms. Kathleen Lynch make matters worse for those dealing with mental health issues.
to become modern we should be doing far more.
our systems of care are archaic, abusive and ‘not fit for purpose’

If this is Tuesday, we must be at the Bilderberg meetings…sugar with your tea?

Sarcasm, alive and well…but I like it!!! On a serious note though, Kathleen’s position as a Junior Minister seems very much untenable following this revelation. It beggars believe, that with such high rates of suicide within all age groups, and with Mental Health services with “waiting lists”, that money to tackle such problems is used elsewhere. Kathleen has failed those with Mental Heath and she cannot continue in this role!!!

@Margaret “cos they are not ‘productive’ members of society” – I disagree and hope to be back working again when I RECOVER. I had a few different careers before Psychiatry got their hands on me.

If a person who got labelled “mentally ill” is not productive, it may be because they are turned into prescription drug addicts and over medicated. I realise some people feel they are helped by drugs and that is fine with me. I no longer take medication since the end of 2011, except occasionally, due to the side effects. There are alternative approaches. If I was been “compliant” I would be in bed now and get up around 2 or 3 in the afternoon, as the drugs prescribed by Psychiatrists (and even GPs) are so sedating.

[Note: Never stop or change medication without consulting a good doctor, due to the dangers of withdrawal]

I imagine whoever dislikes the above comment has no major financial responsibilities, ie mortgage!

Totally agree.

Just read in the Times that the head of the HSE is being paid ?160,000 per year and he has been told he can keep it…..
My God almighty their arrogance knows no bounds.
I wonder how many people would benifit from that money.

typo.. that was meant to read *overpaid by 160,000 euro per year*
My apologies for the confusion.

Be wary of mental health charities that may have been set up by Psychiatrists and funded by the medical model ie drugs companies. You will probably know from there literature as there will be logos everywhere.

One particular one springs to mind, but I better not mention it here. And I noticed a particular Psychiatrist who helps found it then uses it to spread lies and propaganda about “Bipolar”. He will say things such as if the person paints their door or mows their lawn that they are “high”. And he also has an “explanation” to cover the fact that GPs and Psychiatrists are causing a “Bipolar epidemic” by over prescribing “anti-depressants”. I never had Bipolar disorder until the age of 38. And my life has been turned upside down by these so called doctors who pretend to help. Psychiatrists, via the media and other methods I just mentioned, create what can be described as “societal delusion”. Not to mention a few of them that cunningly compare mental health issues to diabetes. But that also create the “chemical imbalance” illusion.

If I ever feel that my mood is going down there is usually a very good reason for it. I believe in talk therapy or keeping a journal. But not “anti-depressants”. I can no longer take such a drug as I now have “Bipolar disorder” from taking them and they would more than likely induce a “manic episode”. Or maybe bring me down.

Leonie Fennell lost her son Shane Clancy in very tragic circumstances because of anti-depressants (Citalopram ~ it comes in a few different names Ciprager/Cipramil/Celexa). She does a lot of work in her blog on highlighting the dangers of these drugs and had an article published in the Irish Independent recently: http://leoniefennell.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/ssri-death-gsk-prozac-cipramil/

And this shower don’t ??.
What about the pictures of hogan with his arm around his press secrecatary in a 5* hotel.
One is as bad as the other and there isn’t a straight line in the Dail.

What a horrible excuse for a person you are, using suicide prevention as a political volley ball. Crawl back in to the sewer and do us all a favour.

Mike
The photograph you refer to could have a thousand meanings and you pick one!
He could have been been providing normal and non relationship affection after a comment.
He could have been drawing her closer to have a private word in the presence of cameras.
He could have been deliberately posing in a display of working partnership.
What sort of relationships do you have with women Mike? Do you ever hug a work colleague of the same gender or the opposite? Do you ever show affection to family members beyond the manly Irish handshake and averted gaze.
Or Mike are you just a sleaze merchant and intent on spreading accusations to cause as much misery as you can?

Michael.
Was that what Mike meant? When I read the comment what stood out to me was the 5* hotel he and his press secretary were in.. Need I remind you that we, the taxpayer, footed the bill for their stay?

It’s probably better for your mental health if you don’t :)

Thankfully yes

I think that may be a yes.. Dunno if you noticed but since people started working to lift the stigma – the full extent of the problem is becoming more apparent. It’s way more common than we used to assume – and to answer your earlier question, yes – most people will suffer some sort of mental health issues at some point in their lives.. Consider yourself lucky if you have not, but I’m afraid it doesn’t mean you never will.

I did indeed suffer from “mental health problems” some years ago and to be honest, feel quite guilty about the thousands of pounds and then euro of public money that must have spent on the ineffective treatment I received.

As Ann said above Jone, why should you feel guilty?
How much input did you have into this ineffective treatment? In my case and many others the holy shrink prescribed the meds as though they were supposed to be effective and refused to believe me when I said they were causing damage..
The blame lies with the drug companies suppressing all the trials that showed just how useless their drugs were but publishing the ones that looked good. The blame lies with the med journals which were supposed to check that these were not biased samples, that there was no fraud.. The blame lies with the doctors who fail to recognise that med journals are nearly all lies..

Evidence based medicine should be the standard, but I’ve come across more than a few doctors who don’t know what it is and have never even heard of Cochrane or Epidemiology.. THERE is your blame.

jone kelleher, its not YOUR fault if money spent to help you, didnt help you. the questions you have to ask, what did the professionals do for you, why did they not help and can you tell them what you feel might work better? when the ordinary person stands up to these so called ‘highly educated’ medical persons, and say, ‘hey mate, you are making me worse, you are not making me better and its costing shit money that we havent got, can you consider re-education on ways that will work for ME and many OTHERS?

Ann. The “team” in charge of my “care” weren’t interested in being re-educated. AS far as they were concerned, they were the educated ones and I was, well I was mentally ill, wasn’t I? The very best thing they could have done for me the fist day I walked into their office would have been to send me home.
We need more critical thinking around this subject. Mental health has become like a religion in Ireland. Years ago politicians competed to see who could be the most conservative, the most Catholic and always had one eye on the bishops’ palace. Nowadays mental health is the topic they need to talk on if they want their comments reported approvingly in the press.
Take for example, the consenus that mental health funding should be prioritised. This is almost never questioned, but why should mental health care be a priority?
Another consensus is the view given earlier that we’re all at risk of developing mental illness, that mental illness is rampant in society. Dissenting views tend to restrict themselves to arguing that talk therapies are more effective than drugs, rather than questioning if most of those who think they’ve mental problems don’t actually have different problems altogether. Problems that don’t require a medical solution. Problems that involvement with the health services can only exacerbate.
Again and again we see the issue of suicide coming up. It is true that psychiatric illness carries a higher risk of suicide than for the general population. This can be due to the nature of the illness themselves, and also due to problems in living due to prejudice. Both these could be reduced by higher standards of treatment. But I do not believe that the current epidemic of suicide is caused by an epidemic of psychiatric illness.
Policiticans like those in the article are exploiting the pain of the suicidal and the bereaved by pretending that increased spending on mental health care would somehow “save lives”. I use inverted commas because I believe their calls are craven, self-serving and devoid of real concern for the well-being of citizens.