I agree Oran, people aren’t looking At the bigger picture is… We had a dearth of movies made here due to the tax breaks, and an increase in local jobs as a result, it takes a huge team of people to put a movie together. The current Government’s myopia is astounding…. I would love figures on exactly how many businesses were forced to close last December, my own included – due to increased penalisation of those trying to provide employment. It’s heartbreaking to see any progressive move being eroded.

Keelin Murphy,

Can we please stop glorifying tax breaks through the “local jobs” smokescreen. It would appear you are incapable of reading the points that justify ending tax breaks. The increased penalization as you put it is the result of high income taxes on the ordinary PAYE worker which funds all this tax break stuff. That means less jobs as a result. Companies must be encouraged to provide stable employment instead of relying on a boom-bust taxation policy that favors the top 10%.

Oran Drumgoole: Tax breaks have failed to deliver employment because they don’t cover-up our competitiveness problem despite what right-wing nuts prefer to believe. That would mean spending billions of euros on cuts where more than half of the benefit accrues to the richest 10 percent.

Raising taxes on the rich will NOT harm economic growth and job creation. History has shown that annual economic growth has been strongest when the top tax rate was higher than it is today.

So your claims about tax increases destroying the economy — which you make every time such a policy is suggested — are just fearmongering, with no evidence backing them up.

Una, have you ever tried to run a business and employ people? I imagine you haven’t. Come back to us with an informed opinion of proactivity when you have. That is all.

So what??? You’re DEFENDING tax breaks to a wealthy industry that should never receive them. John, we have a deficit of €20 billion and if you want to make up for this tax shortfall, why don’t you pay higher property taxes and water charges?

Tax breaks should be STOPPED.

@ John Phelan

I remember 2008–600 thousands lost each month under Charlie McGreevey. Tax breaks never work. It didn’t stop companies leaving Ireland in 2009, did it?

IBEC is just a selfish, greedy monopolist of mafia undermining the Irish people.

Tim: How is putting people out of work going to improve any of the problems you mentioned?

Paul: You cannot grow an economy through tax breaks. Any expert will tell you this.

If other right-wing capitalists want someone else to pay for these tax breaks, step up to the mark and donate extra income taxes – no one is stopping you.

Tim, selective and carefully planned tax breaks are not the same as growing an entire economy through a low-tax regime. This particular break has a proven track record and it has not only created jobs, but an entire industry. That’s why I support its continuation: for the simple reason that it has worked and paid its way until now.

It doesn’t make me a right-wing capitalist who sneakily seeks out tax breaks for cigar-smoking fat-cat panto villains, any more than supporting access to social welfare makes me a hardline communist. Stop distilling everything into a battle of right vs left. The world is more complicated than that.

No you don’t pay taxes “like everywhere else”, stop living in a fantasy world.

The company you work for gets tax breaks while you the ordinary worker gets fleeced to subsidize corporate greed. The irrational fear that “no one would come here” is exaggerated and unfounded. Ireland offers high skilled graduates who are native English speakers. In today’s film world, they need Ireland more than we need to offer them tax breaks.

Did you read the article at all?

@ stayfrostynatty

Tax breaks starve a country of revenue. It is a form of corruption endorsed by Charlie McGreevey and Michael Noonan. So don’t give me the “dole queue” crap. The ordinary people are forced to fill the tax gap for these through higher income taxes on the middle class.

Tax breaks are making the dole queue longer. It’s like a boom-bust policy which failed to deliver sustainable employment.

Putting aside the “jobs” smokescreen, this country is bankrupt. Broadening the tax base requires eliminating tax breaks to the top 10%.

Not taxing someone is not “giving” them money.

The country is bankrupt. Better to get 10% of something rather than 50% of nothing.

Already, taxes on both the rich and investment income (which for the last few decades has been taxed at a lower rate than wage income) are at historic lows, but they didn’t lead to the job creation that was promised by the tax breaks

Yes, they do lead to job creation. US multinationals have created 100,000 jobs here, never mind the multinationals from other countries.
And these jobs in google / twitter / microsoft / HP / Intel / Elan / Wyatt / Cisco / Apple / Dell (which still employs over 2000 people in Ireland even after those redundancies in Limerick) are high paying jobs. The average salary in google is something like 50,000-60,000…

And those film companies don’t owe Ireland anything. They’ll come here if it’s worthwhile. They won’t if it’s not.
Simple.

You are flawed. We cannot offer tax breaks because we are broke. The people would only get hit with higher taxes to make up the shortfall. Also, your argument should be directed at the high wage costs, shouldn’t it?

It’s the same principle, Una. ‘Saving money’ doesn’t always result in a saving.

isnt that why they brought in high earners restriction?

Tax breaks are also destroying the country. They offered unsustainable tax breaks to Pharmaceutical companies to carry out research here. It is estimated this costs the Irish taxpayer €500 million.

Further tax breaks on the rich have resulted in Microsoft and Apple using the “double Irish arrangement” to funnel their tax through the Netherlands to avoid Irish taxes.

Yesterday, Britain introduced a wealth tax. Ireland should be doing the same and closing these tax breaks also.

Nice way of cherry picking facts. Two can play at that game. I do hope your supposed wizard of taxation and economics realizes that tax breaks undermined job creation and economic growth. So to argue that offering billions more tax breaks will have a positive impact on the economy is pure fantasy. You do a nice job of confusing 10 years in lost revenue with something else.

Do you really believe that money has gone back into the economy??? No way in hell. If you feel otherwise, you’re obviously in serious denial about what’s going on in the world around you!!!

Hear hear Oran.

Hear hear. I’m with stupid.

If James Cameran were to make a 300 million dollar film in Ireland and paid ZERO tax, that would have a positive impact on the economy, with salaries, hotels, services, catering, studio use etc etc.

I’m a bit baffled as to how you can say otherwise.

Charming Tim…. Down with that sort of thing

Too many posters here are incapable of looking at the bigger picture.. Anything to create more jobs, not drive investors to other, more receptive Countries

Keelinover Ni Murchu,

Once again, another poster who did not read my earlier points. I’m not sure if your post is meant to be sarcastic, but just because they are “creating jobs” does not justify the loss of billions given in dirty tax breaks. You advocate crony capitalism – the same policy as Charlie McGreevey. What happens when it blows up all over again like in 2009? Tax breaks contribute to a boom-bust economy. Hey, I could try and fool people by “creating jobs” whilst dodging taxes but does that make it right? No.

This is textbook stuff if you even bothered doing an internet search on it.

“textbook” my arse Tim, how many jobs have you ever created… Armchair “critics” are just that. Silly silly Man

Armchair critics??? Is that all you got? Man, come hard and strong (under recognized and factual constructs) or stay at home!

The facts have already been shown that tax breaks are TEMPORARY, period. Quit hanging your shabby hat on that old rickety track – it’s over. If you insist on repeating your constant rhythmic mantra, you’re in mortal danger of becoming an old worn-out cliche – the worst kind of polemist.

Keelinover, you’re starting to froth at mouth! Take me advice, go back to wherever it is your little refuge, take a glass of milk and maybe just maybe you can avoid a debilitating case of the vapors.

They would have brought in 0 and they’d have made the film in Scotland or Hungary or wherever…

They would have brought in about 10 million because their profit margins are very high. A cinema ticket costs €20 in Ireland compared to €3 in other Euro countries. Clearly we need structural reforms instead of tax breaks. Rather than being a tax haven, we should be encouraging these big businesses to pay their fair share like everyone else.

Profit margins on films are not very high. Sure, they’re high on films like the Titanic but most films made here (excluding Braveheart and Saving Prt Ryan) don’t make much profit.
And not every film project is made by “big businesses”
And for non-Irish film companies there is no “fair share” of taxes. They just won’t come here and they’ll make their film in Scotland.

SaintRuth: Ending tax breaks is required to cut unemployment.

They always came to Ireland, even before the tax breaks. We don’t need tax breaks for billionaires.

You advocate the corrupt tax break policy from your mate Charlie McGreevey. Look at the mess that left us in.

100% correct.

Tax breaks are like someone tying a plastic bag over their head, lecturing you on proper breathing technique, pausing for three hours to play a game of golf, having her husband empty your pockets so he can jet off to Rio, then expecting worshipful praise because he poked a small hole in the bag so that you do not immediately die from suffocation. IBEC may very well be driven by well-meaning dogma, but that does not excuse their stunning arrogance, lack of economic sense, and dictatorial approach to the role of taxation. IBEC and all their supporters on here have been unbelievably arrogant, condescending, cynical and unwise in their relationship with Ireland’s citizenry; behaving as though they represent only the fringe 10% of nut jobs. It is time for Ireland’s normal people to be represented once again, not the tax breaks given to these film corporations.

Tax breaks do NOT create jobs. Again, you did not research the earlier postings about the ethics and economics of tax breaks. Tax breaks are temporary – they are NEVER permanent. Honestly, this is textbook stuff.

Oran, the negative posters here fail to realise that to attract money and investors you need incentives.. We only have to look at the business going elsewhere. Una and Tim in particular are living in cookoo land, yet they will continue to shower abuse at anyone who dares to have an independent opinion… Save your breath Oran, it’s wasted on those armchair critics..

Keelinover Ni Murchu,

It is well know that the wealthy “job creators” and Capitalists only use the nations they operate in as a temporary land and only until they can no longer exploit their resources and people to their content. They skim the goodies off the top, but when it comes to showing loyalty or dilligently paying theirs taxes they disappear. They also take off when it come to putting themselves in the line of fire to defend their own nations, Bono style, by conveniently defecting to the idyllic “Tax Break” country side when it’s time to fight for their own people. That dirty job is left for the dumb peasants from Howth and Blanchardstown to fulfill, for who else would be so poor and uneducated as to put their own lives on the lines in exchange for a €40K signup bonus or a few tin medals and a pat on the shoulder ?

The nations that these Film companies come from must put pressure on Ireland to stop being a tax haven. It can be easily done, as the US Government did with the charlatans hailing from there who were hiding their money with UBS. Once enough governments do the same, they will only have China and Russia to go to. And they will have no choice but to pay their tax like average citizens do, instead of using their money to buy million dollar horses for “therapy”. The estimated global amount of wealth stashed overseas and that is not subject to taxation has reached staggering proportions, up to $30 trillion dollars in some estimates. Time to make the oligarchy pay taxes like the peasants do.

And look who’s getting personal. The irony of this post is too much to fathom.

paul mc,

I don’t know who you are or where you’re from but your reply indicates a distinct lack of familiarity with the economic situation leaving you with a single rhetorical impediment, one of which I will refrain from taking any further advantage.

There was nothing ‘economic’ about Una’s post — it was just a personal attack, claiming that I’m ‘lashing out’. I’ve done nothing of the sort, so I was just pointing out the irony of this situation.

It’s section 195 that interests Bono not 481

Bono is a tax cheat who uses the “double Irish arrangement” to avoid taxes to Ireland. Like Apple and Microsoft, he funnels them through the Netherlands.

Bono pays his tax in Ireland. U2′s parent company (which is not Irish) pays tax in the Netherlands.

Apple Core,

U2′s parent company avoids a majority tax liability to Ireland because it dodges this using that loophole. The people are tired to flipping the bill because Bono uses foreign bank accounts to avoid paying his fair share of taxes to Ireland. Ditto Apple and Microsoft.