European PMI (Manufacturing index) hit a 36 month low yesterday. It’s either stimulate massively the Eurozone, via increased liquidity to banks and investment (via quantitative easing) and debt write down, or else the Euro will be implementing a very severe and continent wide prog. of cuts in a Eurozone in a deep recession. Killing export markets in stronger countries like Holland, etc, and driving troubled economies in to a deeper hole.

Look at Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize winning economist’s take on the treaty and how it ignores all economic precedent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/opinion/krugman-europes-economic-suicide.html?_r=1&hp

That’s it. Unfortunately for the German government, it’s not going to plan..

Worth a read
G8 summit: Lessons in stimulus versus austerity around the G8
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/g8-summit-lessons-in-stimulus-versus-austerity-around-the-g8-3111859.html

Hit the nail on the head Shayno!! Germans enforcing private German banking and pension fund debt onto the citizens of Europe to ensure they get their money and don’t lose
Yes, the Germans are giving us the money to essentially pay them back, but in doing so, they are nationalising the debt which almost guarantees they get the money back- very clever indeed ! Shame on the other governments like our own for allowing this!

Gary, it’s interesting that you reference Canada’s fiscal correction of the 90′s.
If you believe that the idiots in the Dail are capable of such a correction you are deluded. This is why their advocacy of this treaty is a fallacy.
Canada corrected it’s finances by reducing spending more rapidly than it reduced taxation.
FG/Labours approach is to increase taxation more rapidly than it increases spending. Ignoring the fact that you cannot tax an economy out of recession.
Lucinda Cretin pointed out earlier this week that Irelands projected deficit for next year is €15 billion and the same for the following year.
FG/Labour have shown, just as they are incapable of fighting for Ireland’s interests in Brussels, they don’t do fiscal corrections.
Just as they’re 1982 correction failed, now they’re attempt last December is a rerun without the tax on childrens shoes.
FG/Labour will not face down the unions in the same way as Kenny will not debate the merits of this treaty on live tv.

Sean you’re wrong. In the last budget, cuts in expenditure outweighted tax increases by 2:1. FG’s election manifesto stated they wanted 3:1 cuts to taxation, while Labour said they wanted 1:1. No party has advocated more taxation over more cuts. Also there was a report in Tuesday’s Irish Times that said Ireland has the second lowest tax take per GDP of all EU states. So statistically we’re still a very low tax economy.

Ladies & Gents a YES Vote is our political establishment getting a free line of credit to continue financing their Gold Plated Pay, Perks, Pension, unvouched expenses and off course allow them to finance those very important special advisors that the salary caps had to be broken for,….. Anyone who votes YES to continue with this madness whilst we saddle debts of private banks onto future generations with the blessing of our political establishment as long as they can keep their Gold Plated Pay, Perks, Pension, unvouched expenses… If you Vote YES. SHAME ON YOU !!!

Ignoreland, Canada’s fiscal correction (1992-1997)
Tax revenues relative to GDP went from 44.2% to 44.5%.
Government spending relative to GDP 53% to 44%.

Apologies. Source: Economist Intelligence Unit.

You forget to add that’s why we must vote NO.

Exactly. This is also why Germany is against Eurobonds, as it would average out risk, lowering most countries’ but pushing Germany’s upwards. Merkel wouldn’t be adverse to a bit of European domination, but that was only ever a smokescreen and side effect. The real aim of all of the manoeuvring was to simultaneously cover Germany’s exposed arse while hiding the fact it was in danger of being kicked in the first place.

So Gary, you now support the point that austerity requires an external “miracle” to be successful?

Good man, I knew you’d see reason in the end.

Please note, the EMS, or “the bailout fund” will exist mainly for this. To guarantee that all European banks will now and forever be fully underwritten and fully guaranteed by the blood, sweat and tears of the people of Europe.

With the twin treaties (which may yet prove to be illegal) of the Fiscal Compact and the EMS treaty, Europe is on course to adopt Ireland’s temporary, emergency bank guarantee policy as its own permanent “normal” plan.

Good bye, forever, to moral hazard to banks. Hello, forever, to debt peonage for the poor duped peoples of Europe.

Ireland’s tax revenue compared to GDP is second lowest in euro zone
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0522/1224316503183.html

Gary, as Europe is the highest tax & spend region on the planet, this doesn’t offer much insight.
The idea of using austerity to induce economic growth is termed ‘expansionary fiscal consolidation’.
These consolidations are characterised by pronounced cuts in public spending, reductions in taxation or implict/ explicit promises of reduced taxation, Market liberalisation and regulatory reform. In addition, successful consolidations have been supported by monetary policy. Irelands consolidation (1987), Denmark (1982), Sweden (90′s), Canada, Turkey (2001) were accompanied by currency devaluations. An option not now available.
Reducing the tax burden is more important than the relative rate. Sweden continues to place a relatively high tax burden. However, it has continued to reduce taxation and spending since the 90′s with a continued expansionary effect.
The extent of Irelands debt (both public & total) considerably greater than any of these cases. Prof Niall Ferguson has pointed out that no nation in 200 years have sustained this level of debt without either restructuring or devaluation neither option will be made available unless we reject this treaty.

If we are talking about the real Joan Burton, she is still in everyone’s face and ears. A little quieter in the later half of this campaign, but indeed she is still about and was on the radio this morning but not about the treaty (at least what I heard anyway).

agree. can never believe a word he says again after getting caught out when he said what he says in public isn’t what he believes personally. I switch channels or stations the second he opens his gob.

Labour went native a long, long time ago. Need to have people that do not have the in built relations and loyalty to status quo, fresh blood is required in FG/Lab. Enda has been there since 70′s, he is so damaged from it now, that he could not know right from wrong anymore.

When you have bought the leaders at the top, you no longer need to obey the rules of business and capitalism, get too slow in the market place, make a major mistake, then is should be Goodbye. In the EU nowadays , there can be no accountability by failed business or politicians. Make the small business and man on the road pay.

Vote Yes – Fuc8 You.
Vote No – Fuc8 You.

The EU may dither on its approach but it is very clear in its approach to the vast majority of people in it.

The EU is playing a dangerous game here, it is sentencing 5-6 countries to severe long term decline. Countries like France and Holland are also going to have sub-par growth for a decade as well, maybe longer. The people of Ireland, unfortunately will take any level of beating, but there are many that will not,watch their country and their own futures go down the drain to protect Merkel’s party in German politics.

“We are in the middle of World War 3,only this time its an economic war & the Germans are winning,why is everyone so stupid in our Parliament to see this”
Good holy s**h is this the level of political debate in this country?

He is an idiot

Gilmore’s wage is €184,000.

Gavan, when you combine his pension build up (estimated to be worth almost 4.5 million) and his party leadership allowance of 25k, i think you will find, i am a lot closer to the truth than the 184k number you are quoting.

Gwan Reilly!

Cal – Apologies for my curtness the first time. You’re right in that if you include his ministerial and Dáil pension contributions it’s probably higher, but either way his actual *salary* (as in, the cash in his bank account) is €184,000 per annum, as agreed at the first meeting of the current cabinet.

Gilmore, Labour and the Register of Members’ Interests all state that both Gilmore and Joan Burton gave up their additional payments for Labour leadership positions when they took ministerial office last March.

Cal, I understand that Mr Gilmore misquoted from his script.
What he meant to say was Frankfurts way is Labours way.

Gavan, you’re snatching at technicalities. Gilmore’s overall compensation is far higher than 184k once you include the golden pension. Cal didn’t mention “salary” in his post. Gilmore is being paid far too much.

And O’Sullivan is paying.

Gilmore knows that the treaty is hatstand economics. European manufacturing hitting a 3 yr low and here is the continent looking at having every country in the EU implement a prog. of cuts that would be quiet difficult for a strong productive country to achieve in time frame.

It’s bat doo crazy economics and the markets will never allow it to be implemented.