Totally agree. I’m not a SF supporter, but what you say is right. As a nation, we passed the Good Friday Agreement and as such agreed to try and understand what and why both sides of the conflict did what they did, and also agreed to accept these people as upstanding citizens going forward beyond the GF Agreement signing. Unless Dessie Ellis did something illegal post the signing of the agreement, then this is all hot water!!

Agree Finbar but if they do set up a truth commission the first name on that list should be Brian cowen followed by Bertie ahearn ,

I’m sick to death of people using the argument of comparing Collins or de Valera to the IRA bombing campaign in Northern Ireland. It’s completely inaccurate The key difference between the IRA in the Troubles and the IRA in the War of Independence was that during the War of Independence they had the democratic backing of the vast majority of all of Ireland. They were the military force that represented the first Dáil- of which its members were elected. It is this that in respect legitimised (as opposed to justified) their actions, in contrast, IRA during the Troubles which had no democratic support from either North or South.

Forcing a people into a country they don’t want to be part of is terrorism/tyranny. I would love to see a United Ireland and am no fan of Loyalism but that doesn’t justify a terrorist campaign. If the majority of people in NI wish to remain part of the UK that is their right. Comparing Collins to terrorists is just insulting/degrading his name. Sinn Fein love dwelling into the past when it suits them, when it comes to their past everybody needs to “move on”. What a load of BS.

they are already in Ireland.
the border that partitions our country, was carefully drawn up on the basis of a secterian headcount, so that there would be a 60/40 Protestant / Catholic – Unionist / Nationalist ratio within its borders

Michael that is already understood and it doesn’t justify mass murder of innocent people. “this is a Catholic state for a Catholic people”, giving the Roman Catholic Church a superior position, and burning down Protestant orphanages is sectarian as well. Regardless of it being gerrymandered originally (for fears of persecution by Catholics which is understandable as Southern Protestants were persecuted after independence) the people of Northern Ireland have a right to decide their own future. There was no “war” like Sinn Fein claims it was a terrorist organization (who weren’t backed by the majority North or South) vs. the British state. It wasn’t the Irish state vs. the British state and the NI-IRA did not have a backing by the Irish government to savagely murder people.

@ Erin Go Bragh:
the border was never set up as you suggest, (& it was set up against the wishes of the Irish people as expressed in the 1918 election), to provid,“a Catholic state for a Catholic people”,
on the contrary – it was set up so that there would be a 60/40 Protestant / Catholic ratio within the Six Counties, & as expressed by one of the leaders of the time ‘A Protestant state for a Protestant People’, & it operated in that fashion for some decades.
the 26 Counties was & still is, just the remaining part of Ireland.

there is no one ‘justifying mass murder’, on this thread –
there has been violence from both sides & by he British state, in the course of the recent conflict in The Six Counties.
the freedom from British rule, which we in this state enjoy, was not achieved without a share of violence either & our heroes of the 1916/21 period were designated as terrorists, by the British state.
& let’s not forget either that some of the most dastardly deeds of the 20th century in Ireland, were carried out & supported by those who governed this state for its first decade – the grandpas of those, like Charlie Flanagan, who hold power today.

Mr. O’Toole where was I denying any of this? You’d have to be a moron to not know that Catholics were treated like second class citizens in the North and that it was gerrymandered the state of Northern Ireland giving Protestants a special position. Valera and Craig were both bigots; Collins and Carson did not have such a narrow mindset about this is a Protestant or Catholic state crap. Its also very evident that a large minority of loyalists have an extremely supremacist/racist mindset. It’s beyond me what they are loyal too as they don’t even understand basic geography of what Britain actually is, an island comprised of England, Wales, and Scotland or seem to acknowledge how many of “their” Queens cousins are Catholic. They are British Citizens but they are not a British people since they are not from the island of Britain regardless of a 500 year old ancestry link from the Lowlands of Scotland. I have no difficulty understanding all the injustices, atrocities, or whatever done to BOTH, Catholics and Protestants. People from both sides in the North suffer from the victim complex and they justify mass murder when it suits them. The reality is that over 75% (at least) of NI want to remain part of the UK. It’s time to take the hint and move on and start worrying about ourselves down South. A United Ireland will eventually come but healing needs to take place first from all the terrorism by the so-called “IRA” and it’s Loyalist Terrorist counterparts.

The so-called “terrorists” of the South had a majority backing; while actual terrorists in NI didn’t have a majority backing from either the North or South. Did they “free” the North in the end? No. Was the loss of life worth it? No.

@ Erin go Bragh:

“The so-called “terrorists” of the South” ??
there was no “south” prior to 1922.
the ‘terrorists’ as designated by the British state of the 1916-22 period were fighting for the ending of British rule in Ireland – all 32 counties of it.

“actual terrorists” ??
like your “so-called terrorists”, your ‘actual terrorists’ were designated as such by the British state too.

did they “free” the North in the end?
your “so-called terrorists” didn’t free the “north” either,
but both sets of …. ahem …… ‘terrorists’ advanced the freedom of Ireland from British rule,
& the campaign of the late 20th century virtually ended the ‘Protestant State for a British People’

“Was the loss of life worth it?”
life was lost both in attempting to maintain, & to end British rule in Ireland.

The point is Mary he didn’t “do the time for his crimes” as you say. Read the above comment, he used a legal loophole to evade justice.

@mcbab: He didn’t ‘evade justice’, to be fair. He served his 10 years in Ireland; then he was extradited, tried and acquitted of the charges in the UK. There aren’t any outstanding allegations against him.

And Mary has nailed the motivation on the head.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2005451/Bernard-Lynch-serves-assistant-junior-minister-wife-served-year-bars.html

@ so he used legal loopholes ….. That makes him the same as every other politician in my opinion !

How many British MP’s have fought in wars, how many French or American. Quiet a few I would say. How many FG TD’s helped cover up for loyalist killers in the 70′s in this state. Look at Charlie’s dad here on that one.

Just a pile of distraction BS as the country goes down the toilet. FG are still fighting the croppies and the fenians in their heads. Ellis will bring in a running mate next election.

As Dessie pointed out in an interview once, there are more ex-IRA men in Govt. now than there are in the opposition benches at the moment.

Wouldn’t it be some laugh if he started pointing out who he met at meeting and on jobs in the 60′s and 70′s. Though given the Republican obsession with not naming names, it would never happen.

Lowry and Mick Wallace were also “democratically elected”…

So was your dear leader with his 5 point turn & lies about roscommon hospital. your point?

Couldn’t of put it better myself Mary!

FFG/Labour have zero intention in making a formal stand on the Truth and reconciliation program. They need to keep people in the dark, and use the War in the North, as a political weapon, so that they can deflect any answer about current Government performance.

Cal you seem to be surrounded by champagne swigging blueshirts. Watch out now they and pseudo republican FF might bring back hanging or execution to stop you telling the truth to the people about the war in the north and the truth that dessie Ellis along with being a patriot is also a brilliant on the ground working class TD. Careful now, down with that sort of thing. :)

So that people do not go on about FG or FF’s present.

Just imagine the panic in Flanagan’s office and FG if the politics of FG and FF were reviewed for corruption over the last 30 years. He would have his hands full as chairman then.

He has too much time on his hands now that he cannot be taking bankers and developers on Golf classics. The rain is a terror.

Maybe if Sinn Fein didn’t continue to hide its shameful past and give up the locations of the disappeared, people might be willing to forget and move on!

Well said, Stephen.

Petr, read Kevin’s comment below. Once again your making excuses for some people and out right condemning others?
I’ve no idea who’s guilty but all those murders up north and no one is guilty of any crime.
What kind of society do you want to live in?

Declan — I read it; and I am aware of the details anyway. Thing is, he was acquitted, and that is the bottom line. If you are aware of new evidence that would convict him then please share it with the waiting world.

I’ve no idea who’s guilty but all those murders up north and no one is guilty of any crime.

What are you on about? Lots of people have been convicted for killings and varies other offences down the years.

What sort of Irish man are you, you are talking shit. You type of people sicken me, you have all the answers, you know exactly who is to blame, who is right and who is wrong! The troubles was a war and people died, it happened in other countries for centuries, and I’m not sorry for saying that I think it was a just cause. It’s the way I wax brought up and I don’t apologise for it, Ireland should be one and some day it will and I for one will always argue the likes of you about that, tiocfaidh ar la!

@ Paul Anthony:
you say _
“Smells like a FF/FG smear”
did you forget about Labour ???
did you not hear the ‘sticky’ Gilmore in the Dáil, before Christmas ??

I rarely think of labour these days, they may as well not exist,….finished.

@ Paul Anthony:
i rarely think of Labour also – indeed, i never thought much of em
but they’re in government with the blueshirts,
& when it comes to “smear” – they’re every bit as good as the rest.
surely, you saw/heard the ‘sticky’ Gilmore in the Dáil last week ??

FG admire Big Mick Collins but they hate his politics and actions. Only when he was in the uniform of Army head do they ever remember him. Not that he was still shipping guns to the IRA in the North up to his death. He was intent on freeing the North through the use of arms.

Big Charlie’s daddy was an anti-Semite? Charlie seems to speak with the same ideology. Not good at all.

Pesky democracy. Sometimes people you don’t like get elected.

Thanks for the correction Kevin, I’ve amended the piece now.

I voted for Dessie and I’ll vote for him again. There are plenty of Irish and British politicians both past and present who were involved in the struggle for and against Irish sovereignty. It was war. War is a dirty business. Seems the only people unprepared to move on are the Irish government, certain sections of the media and supporters of parties afraid of Sinn Féins electoral gains.

@ Kevin O’Sullivan
tou ask -
“Why in the name of god do allow such criminals be elected?”

perhaps – because
a significant proportion of the electorate who participat in our democratic elections, aren’t ‘west brits’, like you ??
& others look to the present & the future, rather than dwell on & exploit what from the past suits their agenda.

Killing and designing bombs designed to kill innocent people is a much worse crime than anything our politicians has committed

Andrew
Good man! I’m sure you thoroughly reviewed his suitability for the role of TD before you voted and took that into account together with the skills he would ultimately bring to the job. Did you have any thoughts as to how a television repair man could contribute to our Legislature or was it his Bomb making skills that you believed to be of value in Leinster House?
Perhaps you reviewed his educational background and considered that important?
Andrew ………..?

Smarmy git Michael

@michel j..what qualifications do any of them have enda was a primary school teacher can’t see how a teacher could be qualified to run a country

So there are types of criminals so … there’s the convicted type and the type who claims to starve and drive people to suicide … by their actions …. any idiot that thinks their is no blood on our current blueshirt and champagne socialist mafia is just that a total and utter idiot ….

If you seen the work Dessie done in Dublin NW over the years as a councillor you would know the reason why Dessie was voted in as a TD

Kevin , if you take the time to really study your history , you will discover that if one took the people out of The Dail with either a Republican / IRA , or for that matter a Fascist tradition ( FG )
that there would not have been many seats occupied at all over the years from the Dail founding, to today.

Then again , would it be your suggestion that Citizens should not be allowed to utter their choice in the Ballot Box ?

Michael J, good man yerself. So you’re saying only middle and upper class people should enter politics and not working class? Need to maintain the status quo eh Michael? Teachers and accountants don’t have the best history in leading our country either Michael, best remember that.

“Why in the name of god do allow such criminals be elected? ”

kevin, the biggest act of criminality befalling our people by elected representatives is being carried out by members of your political party, fine gael, who are stealing billions of peoples money, committing a generation to poverty, and handing it to unsecured bondholders.

Superbly put. No further comment required.

Paul
I’m sure he done great work. But we should question his intelligence as the bomb making material found in his possession was under his bed! Jeez what an idiot.

I thought once your sentence has been served you are free to re-integrate into society?

@ Barry Doyle:
take a look at the ….. ahem . “criminals”, voted into office by the CnaG/FG voters over the years,
wonder does that explain why “this country is in the dog house”, mr Doyle ??

Werry Vunderbarry…

..so now it was SF, and not FF and the PD neoliberal flying squad viral vector, that sank the country into the manufactured debt, now being copperfastened with a pink Labour collar ‘n’ cuffs on the viceregal blueshite coagulation.

And I says to meself…what a wonderful world..

Bla bla bla Sinn Fein done this and done that..they were Ireland’s first government,faught for freedom as did others who are considered modern day heros like nelson Mandela..using a weak argument like this is a political joke with us being money in troubles.if he is guilty he will be tried in court and sentenced but until then its just a rumour.
Ever since ends had a go at Adams a few weeks ago over the IRA(enda in government with eamon Gilmore former IRA member) all the little fg’s singing the sane tune

I agree entirely , one doesn’t have to dig too deep to find FG ‘s Fascist past , where they fought to maintain Franco’s right wing fascist monarchy & raised their own Private Fascist Army here in Ireland , wearing their Blueshirts (hence their nickname ) together with their Nazi salute !
The truth in the history of most Democracies, is that many of the eventual Leaderships in many Parties in the World , have been involved prior, in a military way .
Many of the US Presidents would have had a similar past.

Cut the nonsense Labour/FG & get back to dealing with the real problems in this Country!
Ye have made enough of a liathroidi of the job to date !

Noddy, sentence served or not, it is still fair to question the caliber of individual elected to the dail.

Mr doyle it’s muppets like you that has this country the way it is! Voting the same wallys into power every time! If you don’t support Sinn Fein well it’s obvious you voted for the traitors that are in power! Do you reckon your vote was worth it? The state the country is in!

The British had forensic evidence against the Birmingham Six also.

Look Charlie Flanagan or most FG TD’s couldn’t care less what Ellis did or didn’t do. If Charlie had to polish Dessie’s shoes for a decade every day to stay on the gravy train then he would no problem. If they needed his vote to be in power, then they would offer Ellis the earth.

This is just a game to them.

How many FG or FF TDs have a record of terrorism? You say forget it…let it go! Say that to the orphans and widows created by the SF revisionists.

Hibernia
Sinn Fein voted for the Bank Bailout.

Michael, that is an out an out lie … FF & their fellow financial terrorists FFG, are the only two parties in the Dail to have voted in favor of the final bill proposed to the Dail in support of the Bailout. Labour refused to vote for it based on a technicality. SF voted aginst it, after FFG/FF moved to ensure that the bond-holders would also be bailed out (the first rev of the bill, advocated only guaranteeing individual savings up to 100,000). Its is this type of sick FFG BS that is causing people to turn to SF. The lies and hypocrisy is becoming more and more glaringly obvious to all people.
Be a man, like you name-sake was, and admit you either deliberately lied, or that you didn’t know the truth before you made your comment.

You are a lier Michael. SF did not endorse that perpetual straight jacket on the Irish people. It was FF supported by ffg.

Which is why I think FG are sooooo jumpy! Loosing votes by the bucket load. The way I see it, voters are going to go back to FF, or switch to a party that has yet to get a go, either way FG are loosing votes. And that’s good enough for me

These papers are from the same people who helped and supported the loyalist thugs in the north. Biased much?

There is no forensic evidence. If there was it would have been used to convict him at the time.

@johnny you must have glossed over the word ‘if’ at the beginning of my second sentence

The rats like good ole spider web spinner Kearon are starting to take up spaces on the ship again for one last shot at the honey pot. They are building up their ranks of corrupt immoral minions once more.

What’s your point it was war shit happens in war.

Here’s comes the champagne swigging pseudo republican, socialist, capitalist, ill say anything to get your vote Fianna Fáil corrupt minion kicking a great man when he’s down.

Hark back to FF’s past. Some good men passed through its ranks right up to the 60′s. then people like yourself and your forebears got involved for personal gain. Remember your party is responsible for many murderers excluding in this instance good republicans in the 40′s, the murders are speak of are in people who committed suicide because FF robbed them of house, business and savings. Robbed, thieved, lied. That to me is worse that bring accused of a crime by a securocratic state know for lying and collusion.

Now get back in your box or back to you lair u hideous Fianna Fáil creature.

Bombing students is a very noble way in going about war.

@Ollie, you know absolutely nothing about me or the economic crisis by the sounds of it. Grow up, you accused me of kicking a “good” man while he’s down while simultaneously trying to make political hay out of Suicide.

I see I’ve touched a nerve. I see your commenting on readies past while not answering and acknowledging Fianna fails militant past.

Those on the FF executive (which may include you) should be locked up for life for murder, corruption and perjury because of all the denials down the years. I have no problem with Sean lemasses past but I have a problem with FF post 70′s past. Corrupt and bereft of dignity you all are.

*Dessies

I know your party signed away our economic sovereignty and condemned generations of children to debt burdens. Who nationalised the bank debt mr Ryan?

Deflect away, you’re so far off the point that putting bombs outside shops is a bad thing. Lets put out the point “ye rooned the country” line!

Remember, Fianna F?il was responsible for the looming US fiscal cliff, as well as the issues in Greece, Spain, Portugal etc.

Your over simplifying things.

What an insightful retort Mr. Ryan. Full of denial and Mish mash. Im afraid it is too late for you and your party. It along with you are rotten to the core.

Good day to you kind sir.

You must be a banker then.

Brilliant Colm. He must be a big landowner or a banker or maybe a politician probably from FF. :)

Yes, bravo Colm. You truly are a sparkling wit. You should sheath that razor sharp banter for fear of hurting my delicate sensibilities.
Obviously anybody who doesn’t believe in “another way” with Sinn Féin and Éirígí must surely be a profligate banker swilling expensive port and puffing Cuban cigars?
I suppose if I was as intellectually blessed as you and was able to draw such insightful conclusions from a short comment I’d say you were a crusty humanities student grinding your way slowly through an arts degree angry and bitter at those naughty professionals, grumbling away in some corner and just dying to rise up and take to the streets.
However that, like your dumba$$ conclusion, would be complete boll*cks since I don’t know you from Adam and would just be leaping to stupidity and being a complete t*t.

@ ignoreland:
looks like there may be a few ol Blueshirt Bots out & about, too !!

Pseudo republican Fianna failer who doesn’t know his history. Many many Republican FF (now gone, including my great grandad) stored weapons, provided safe houses and fed the likes of dessie and martin ferris on the run. They sold and bought Easter lilies for fund raising and stood with men being spat at in the street. Why? Because they also lived in a time where they were once oppressed and terrorised. They knew what our brothers and sisters in the north were going through to achieve an equal footing in society. The right to live and to self determination.

Have You forgot great men like dan Breen, ernie omalley, frank eiken, all SF then FF. Then the likes of haughey, pee Flynn, Bertie, cowen, Lawlor, Martin (loitering around empty car parks with businessmen) I could go on forever, got involved in the FF party and not only wrecked it but wrecked and defiled our own society. imagine a republican party colluding with the ruc, British to murder and censor republicans that fought the same fight as Aiken. All this was done from auspices of the Galway races champagne tent.
Frank was as battle hardened as dessie. Deny this golden? Also deny FF role in covering up abuses of the church? Good man dev and his successors.

I’m a republican and I salute men that had to resist oppression in order to give people basic human rights.

join SF. we will enact policies that have equality and fairness for the people of Ireland at heart.