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Galway students organise Ireland’s first ever ‘SlutWalk’

The Cape Town SlutWalk held on August 20.
The Cape Town SlutWalk held on August 20.
Image: Schalk van Zuydam/AP/Press Association Images

THE SLUTWALK IS coming to Ireland.

A demonstration for womens’ rights, the global movement started in Toronto earlier this year following remarks by a Canadian police officer that women should not dress like “sluts” to avoid being raped.

Outraged by the remarks, men and women in the city showed their frustrations through the first ever SlutWalk.

Protesters donned their most provocative clothing and marched through the city to criticise how authorities deal with rape victims.

NUI Galway’s Students’ Union latched onto the idea and said Ireland should have its own SlutWalk. It has been organised for October 5 between 1pm and 4pm during the university’s Equality Week. A route is yet to be decided.

SU Equality Officer William O’Brien writes on Facebook that the SlutWalk has been organised to drive the point home that a low cut top is “not an invitation to be raped”.

The Slutwalk was born to illustrate that a woman’s dress should in no way provoke unwanted sexual attacks, name calling or any other form of negative attention.

One rape survivor wrote on her blog that she will attend the march.

“SlutWalk began because a member of the Toronto Police in Canada remarked that women should avoid dressing like sluts to avoid being sexually assaulted. It’s this kind of narrow minded and frankly stupid remarks that have victims blaming themselves for someone else’s violent acts,” she explained.

The event is also supported by the Rape Crisis Network Ireland and the Galway Rape Crisis Centre. It is being advertised across social media sites using the slogan, “Society teaches ‘Don’t get raped’ rather than ‘Don’t Rape’”.

Thousands of people have already turned out to SlutWalks in Toronto, Glasgow, Cape Town and other cities across the globe. Here are some images from those marches:

Galway students organise Ireland’s first ever ‘SlutWalk’
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  • SlutWalk

    Women march past the Statehouse during the SlutWalk in Boston on May 7.
  • SlutWalk

    Another banner at Philadelphia's SlutWalk on August 6.
  • SlutWalk

    A SlutWalk in Philadelphia on August 6.
  • SlutWalk

    A SlutWalk was organised in Berlin on Saturday, August 13.
  • SlutWalk

    A woman carry a banner during Cape Town's SlutWalk.
  • SlutWalk

    Men and women in Cape Town's SlutWalk last month.

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Comments (85 Comments)

  • Report this comment

    I think the “don’t get raped” doctrine actually makes perfect sense. When you think about it, some men are going to rape, regardless of what arguments you make. Standing around and arguing with someone who is about to attack you, whether sexually or physically or both, is inviting yourself to be attacked. Best thing is: get yourself out of there ASAP.

    “I fought him! I stood up for myself!… but I got raped anyway”. Doesn’t sound like much of a boast, does it?

    http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/escape.html

    Reply
    • Report this comment

      The point I’m making is: everyone’s first priority should be to their own safety. What other people perceive of them should always come second.

    • Report this comment

      Fiachra I dont think I have ever read such an ignorant comment…FFS you think any woman who tries to argue her way or put up a fight is inviting herself to be raped…..you think any person who is attacked is inviting it by arguing back….can you imagine the pain of being voilatated…the what ifs that go around your mind…the fears that rape creates….can you imagine the indignity of reporting it, to have a rape kit done…to have people like you say oh well you invited it by doing this and doing that!!!!!

    • Report this comment

      It’s not ignorance – it’s trying to protect YOURSELF. Your own priority should be to your own safety, and the rapist is not going to listen to your arguments, no matter how forcefully you put them forward. If he’s bigger and stronger than you, then he’s going to over power you, no matter how hard you try and fight back.

      I don’t think that wearing revealing clothing should be an excuse for rape, but does the rapist care about that? No. After all… he’s a rapist.

      As that article so succinctly put it: “do you want to be right, or do you want to be raped?”

      Rape is painful, demoralising, and degrading – to such an extent that trying to explain it in words is impossible. Nobody wants that, and I think most people would want the world to be free of rapists… Is the world ever likely to be free of rapists? No.

      The best thing is to protect yourself, and to hell with anyone who calls you a coward for it. Again: do you want to be right, or do you want to be raped?

    • Report this comment

      I don’t think anyone (including this article) is saying that if someone tries to rape to just stand there and engage with them in theoretical debate! I’m not sure where that point came from except for you (Fiachra) saying it. This is about trying to change some people’s attitude in the general public of “you were asking for it”, it’s not targetted at rapists themselves.

    • Report this comment

      “The general public” in principle at least supports the fact that women should not be raped just because they dress in a particular way (at least I very much hope they don’t). Rapists don’t, and they probably will not change their viewpoint based upon a series of protests. Rape, for the most part (aside from psycho-serial rapists, which are thankfully a minority), is a very personal crime targeted at one individual. It’s doubtful that rapists have gender rights on their mind at the time!

      While I agree entirely with the principles behind the protest, I’m not sure what practical good it will achieve. I think that the time and energy could be better spent educating women (of course men get raped too, but this article seems to be about women exclusively) how to avoid situations where they could be raped. I don’t agree with blaming rape victims, I just would prefer if there were no victims in the first place!

    • Report this comment

      There’s no need for ad hominem. I knew long before I made my comments on this site that they would evoke seriously emotional responses, because it is after all a really sensitive subject. If I wanted universal agreement with what I say, then I’d never be able to open my mouth. Nor would you for that matter, if you also believed that.

  • Omnipube 08/09/11 #
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    That’s how they always dress in Galway

    Reply
  • EM 08/09/11 #
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    Only question is why October? Too cold and wet to be parading in your undies. Organise it for summer and you have some chance of good weather.

    Reply
    • Neil 08/09/11 #
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      Yes, it’s a rare day in October that it’s not lashing rain in Galway. You’ll just get a load of tossers hanging around hoping to see the young wans in skimpy clothes as well. I’m just not seeing the benefits of this, other than giving some exhibitionists a thrill.

      The Galway Students Union could surely find more inventive ways to help rape survivors, and promote awareness, than just following in the footsteps of others.

    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      We are and we do. Get yourself educated before you assume that the SU here does nothing abou the issue. Not least the fact that I am organising workshops on campus througout the year with the Galway Rape Crisis Center from personal safety to readinng the signs and how to go about intervening if you suspect someone has been raped and is not talking to people about it. Most of the full time officers will be undergoing this training. We will also be collecting donations to help fund the centre If you would like to find out more please call myself of the welfare officer here, our contact details are on the SU website.
      The slutwalk is a method of sparking debate, contraversy and provoking people to discuss and think about the topic, something it is already hugely sucessful and the event is stil a month away.

    • Report this comment

      “sparking debate, contraversy and provoking people to discuss and think about the topic”

      The debate is mostly along the lines of ‘why are you telling people that just because they can dress whichever way they like, they should do so even if it meant taking their safety for granted?’ You sparked controversy alright, mostly because the event itself is easily criticised and derided.

  • Paul Lanigan 08/09/11 #
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    People have a right to dress any way they please in the same way as I have a right to leave my camera and wallet on the front seat of my parked car. Within my rights, but not very smart if there are thieves about.

    Reply
    • Report this comment

      Trying to argue with a rapist (someone with no knowledge of social proprietaries) that wearing revealing clothing is not an invitation to be raped, is inherently futile.

      I think people need to put this in perspective a little. “Don’t get raped” is probably the most effective message we have right now, because you can only prosecute a rapist after he’s committed the act, which means there is a victim and a shattered life already. Most people are raped by people they know and trust, which is what makes them so vulnerable. Decreasing your likelihood of getting raped is in your own interest.

    • Diego Attley 08/09/11 #
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      I think both of you are totally right but there is always going to be the people that say you should be able to dress whatever way you want without the fear of being raped (which they should). I wish that was the case but the world is filled with sick people and pre action is always better than reaction.

    • Emma Houlihan 11/09/11 #
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      (1) we all agree rape is wrong
      (2)We all agree that everyone should take all precuations to protect themselves.

      The thing is, dressing like a slut doesn’t get you raped – it may get you alot of unwanted attention, It may make a man think you are easy, It may give him the impression he can “mall on to you” – but that is not what gets you rapped. Which brings me to my last point on what we agree on

      (3) What gets you rapped is rappists.

      Or at least we should all agree on point number three

      So the walks:
      These walks are not about what lengths a women should or should not go to in order to protect herself and avoid being attacked. Nor are they going to decress the numbers of rapes. They are about trying to change how we talk about rape, becuase right now, you all are (unintentionally) blaming the victum.

      You are saying there was something she could have done to avoid the attack: It was irresponsible for her to go out dressed the way she was, she drank too much, she should have had a friend walk her home, she should have gotten a taxi. These are not the reasons a woman gets rapped, the reasons a woman gets rapped is a man was sick enough to do it, and a sociotiy that sets up geat feelings of gulit and shame, not for him, but for her – because “what did she expect” “she should have known better”

      Fiachra, no is suggesting you try and lodgic you way out of a rape, they are suggesting a man should not have a mind set to rape a women in the first place. That is an educationf that starts by changing the way we talk about it. So while “don’t get rapepd” is the best messgae we have right now, it has clearly not worked and we need to try “Don’t rape”(1) we all agree rape is wrong
      (2)We all agree that everyone should take all precuations to protect themselves.

      The thing is, dressing like a slut doesn’t get you raped – it may get you alot of unwanted attention, It may make a man think you are easy, It may give him the impression he can “mall on to you” – but that is not what gets you rapped. Which brings me to my last point on what we agree on

      (3) What gets you rapped is rappists.

      Or at least we should all agree on point number three

      So the walks:
      These walks are not about what lengths a women should or should not go to in order to protect herself and avoid being attacked. Nor are they going to decress the numbers of rapes. They are about trying to change how we talk about rape, becuase right now, you all are (unintentionally) blaming the victum.

      You are saying there was something she could have done to avoid the attack: It was irresponsible for her to go out dressed the way she was, she drank too much, she should have had a friend walk her home, she should have gotten a taxi. These are not the reasons a woman gets rapped, the reasons a woman gets rapped is a man was sick enough to do it, and a sociotiy that sets up geat feelings of gulit and shame, not for him, but for her – because “what did she expect” “she should have known better”

      Fiachra, no is suggesting you try and lodgic you way out of a rape, they are suggesting a man should not have a mind set to rape a women in the first place. That is an educationf that starts by changing the way we talk about it. So while “don’t get rapepd” is the best messgae we have right now, it has clearly not worked and we need to try “Don’t rape”

  • jackass ireland 08/09/11 #
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    Are they walking to Dublin by chance?

    Reply
  • Chuck Eastwood 08/09/11 #
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    Jesus lads are you mad. You should know by now that no matter what your opinion is on this it’s going to be wrong from a woman’s point if view. After all , all men are perverts …. Right . I think we should have a player walk.

    Reply
    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      I am a man and the organiser of this event. It forms part of a wider equality festival and had nothing what so ever in radical feminism. I find your comment sexist and offensive.

  • Cpm 08/09/11 #
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    A few years ago I spent a while learning Krav Maga – on the first night the guy gave us a primer on self-defense, some of the do’s and don’ts – and one of the first things he said was don’t stick out from the crowd, don’t draw attetion to yourself, because if you do you’ll be the one attacked.

    He gave examples studies, where the criminals were shown videos of streets and they were asked to pick out an individual they’d attack/rob and the majority of them picked out the same person, that person looked and acted different from all the others.

    Now you can march and shout all you like for your right to dress like a slut, but the fact is, it’s not going to make any bloody difference. If you do (dress like a slut), you’re probably more likely to get attacked than the girl wearing the flannel pants 100m ahead of you. Your SU Women’s Rights Officer, the megaphone she’s shouting into, your mates, and your rights won’t make a damned difference.

    It’s not a question of whether that’s right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.

    Reply
    • jackass ireland 08/09/11 #
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      Stop making sense or you’ll be banned from posting here and slandered in multiple posts. We’ll have none of that.

    • Mary Campbell 08/09/11 #
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      Sorry but have you forgotten that ANYONE can be raped regardless of what they wear or how intoxicated they are or even what gender they are. Children unfortunetly get raped all the time, they dont wear skimpy clothing, do they? It can happen whereever to any type of person regardless of age, gender, clothing, intoxication, time and location.

    • Report this comment

      It can happen, but do honestly think that dressing provocatively doesn’t at least sometimes make it more likely? It’s awfully naive to expect a certain class of person not to react when faced with a woman dressed provocatively.

    • mollydot 08/09/11 #
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      “If you do (dress like a slut), you’re probably more likely to get attacked than the girl wearing the flannel pants 100m ahead of you.”

      Citation?

    • Cpm 08/09/11 #
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      @ mary – I think the pivotal role and relevance of the word ‘slut’ in the title of the walk, and in this discussion, has evaded you.

    • jackass ireland 08/09/11 #
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      I try to keep my kids off slut walks.

    • Joan Featherstone 09/09/11 #
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      CPM, I couldn’t agree with you more. Of course you have the right to dress the way you want (within reason of course), but the world is full of sicko’s and that’s fact, so don’t draw attention to yourself if you want to stay safe. Like don’t leave your wallet unattended in a public place, it’s sad that it’s like this, this but it is unfortunately!

    • Duey Sol 10/09/11 #
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      I have “looked and acted different from all the others” all my life and i have never been attacked!!!
      that teacher sounds like a fake idiot to me. you sound like an idiot to me.
      I don’t agree that the girl who dresses ‘slutty’ is more likely to get raped, they are more likely to get attention of course, and maybe not from the most gentlemanly characters but they know that.. i think in their case it would most likely be being drunk or walking or getting a taxi alone at night and not being safe in general or just bad luck.
      also i think if i were a rapist i might pick on the innocent looking girl in ‘the flannel pants’
      so far most of the comment here are totally idiotic and i and all my friends think the slut walk is a great idea. maybe not all for the same reasons but i do think it brings the issues into light and discussion which if nothing else is a great thing in my book.
      in ireland issues like rape are still so taboo they really need to be acknowledged and talked about openly..
      i think the in your face ness of this walk will be great! show people we are not afraid to dress how we like.
      and william thank you for organising it :) me and all the girls (and guys) will see you there! for my part rain or shine.. tho hopefully it won’t be freezing, it will put a damper on it.. maybe next year do it in summer, if we get one!
      MARCH ON SLUTS!!!!!!! ;)
      peace, Duey/Duana

  • Seán Ó Riain 08/09/11 #
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    For the man the best protection against a rape allegation is to get really really rich and become very powerful politically, book into a very posh hotel in the USA and rape a coloured immigrant maid. I mean, who is going to believe her? Chances are she said anything (told a fib) to save her life to get into the the USA to look after rich people and engage in consensual sex every day at work.

    Reply
  • Donal McCarthy 08/09/11 #
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    I’m not sure that there is any evidence that rapists care what their victims are dressed like – even if some have tried to use it as a defence.

    It’s just not the same thing as having your visibly wallet bulging in your back pocket and inviting yourself to be robbed.

    Reply
    • Report this comment

      Wrong. Clothing and behaviour matter very much. There are two very distinct kinds of rape: there’s rape that results from anger/disappointment when things don’t go to plan (eg. the rapist fails to convince a woman to have sex with him), and there’s the kind of rape that we see on cop dramas – serial rapists/perverts who go out looking for vulnerable women. The latter is very much the MINORITY.

      If a woman dresses in a suggestive way, and behaves in a way that COULD be construed as suggestive, then a socially inept male may take that as a sign that she is “easy”. All it takes is that he find her alone, and for her to reject him. In most cases this will result in nothing more than angry words and disappointment, but when you throw alcohol/drugs into the equation, well things can get a lot worse than that.

      Rape can be premeditated, or it can be spontaneous. Yet even in cases where it is premeditated, it’s usually targeted at a specific individual for whom the rapist lusts. Criminal Minds and Law & Order SVU’s depictions of rapists and serial killers happen once in a blue moon – the real threat is much more mundane.

    • Donal McCarthy 08/09/11 #
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      Is this your opinion or is it based on evidence?

    • Donal McCarthy 08/09/11 #
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      Your argument in another (nutcake) website doesn’t count as evidence.

  • Cliona Saidlear 08/09/11 #
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    hmm well frankly many of these responses are exactly why I’ll be participating in slutwalk. Most of you have dived straight into judgement…. of the victim/future vicitm. Well done!

    HINT: the person who commits rape is the perpetrator not the victim. Why not start there?

    Reply
    • Diego Attley 08/09/11 #
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      Look at it with a bit of common sense. Two people are walking down the road, one with a hundred note half hanging out of their pocket and the other with it inside a zipped up pocket. Which one is more likely to have it robbed? I don’t think any of the above commenters are saying it’s right, it’s just the way the world is.

    • Report this comment

      It’s quite obvious that women do not rape themselves, and that she is not responsible for what another person does to her without her consent.

      But try consoling yourself with that argument when you’re being raped. Your priority has to be to protect YOURSELF, and that is what “many of the responses” here are trying to say.

    • AlanCummins 08/09/11 #
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      I totally agree Cliona….

      Should women live in a constant state of fear, wondering where the next rapist is going to come from? Should women conceal themselves in public for fear of some potential rapist lurking around the corner? I think not! Sure we might as well just keep them locked up at home, only allowed to be in public if in the company of some male family member or husband.

      In any case, it’s an excellent step towards changing this totally ridiculous and illogical stance.

      @Fiachra: I’ll be donning my budgie smugglers that day, but will be well armed and prepared for the ever tempted rapist!!!

    • William O'Brien 08/09/11 #
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      The fact that a hundred euro note is hanging out make it any more or less a crime to steal it though?
      There is a difference between a social perspective and the perspective of the state, police, courts etc.
      Rape is rape, it is never asked for no matter how suggestive someone is dressed and should be treated as the same crime regardless of the factors that lead up to it.

    • Report this comment

      Where did anyone say that the rapists weren’t wrong? No one is defending them.

    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      The sad fact is that there have been many cases, none that I know of in Ireland, where rapists have been given minimal sentences because they raped women wearing skimpy clothing.
      I will try and find references tomorrow.
      The idea of the slutwalk is to challenge the idea that raping a girl ‘dressed as a slut’ is somehow less wrong, less of a crime or less punishable than other cases of rape.
      In no way is it about absolving anyone of their responsibility of self preservation.
      There is also the immense negative psychological impact of rape victims feeling in any way like they are to blame for their ordeal. This is the worst, most unbearable part of experiencing rape. This sort of self loathing and guilt can easily lead to self harm and suicide.
      Slut walk is about challenging the way society places blame on such attacks.

  • William O'Brien 08/09/11 #
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    Thanks very much to journal.ie for covering this, it is very well appreciated.
    The point of this event is to prokoke discussion and thought about a very tabood subject.
    The slutwalk means many different things to different people, from woman’s empowerment, the right to dress how you like, that the state should never come across as blaming victims in any way for crimes committed against them and the simple message that a short skirt or a low cut top is in not way an invitation to be raped or harassed sexually.
    While what Faichra says is correct, it is the responsibility for individuals to look after their own safety, no one is arguing against this, the point is that raping a woman in a boob tube is no less a crime than raping a woman in trousers and a cardigan. The fact that this statement came from the Police, a state body, implies that there is an element of responsibility on the half of women if they are raped. This is victim blaming and it is wrong.
    No one asks to be raped, if they did, it wouldn’t be rape.

    Reply
  • Cormac Flanagan 08/09/11 #
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    I used to work in dublin and I’d be driving home through dame St around 2am. The amount of very drunk women, alone who tried flagging me down cause they thought I was a taxi. I uses to drive a micra. While no one is blaming the victim people should look out for themselves an their friends.

    Reply
    • William O'Brien 08/09/11 #
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      Of course they should, this doesn’t detract from the message that is is more acceptable to rape these women than a women who is dressed conservatively.

    • Report this comment

      It’s one thing to campaign against the message that it’s more acceptable to rape someone dressed in what may well be considered suggestively, but this whole deal also seems to be detracting from the general message of “for the love of $Deity – be careful!”

      I mean, you can argue that a woman has the right to dress whatever way she likes (which isn’t entirely true, public order offenses do come in at a point) – but how many rapists actually give a damn? They’re already breaking the law, everything else is secondary.

  • Phil Mc Donald 08/09/11 #
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    Don’t they have a Slut Walk in Irish towns & cities most weekends?

    Reply
  • Barry R. 08/09/11 #
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    The comments so far are really interesting, and I think I can see both sides. So my observations are;

    -Why do women go out dressed provocatively in the first place ??
    Power ? Because they can ? To appeal to men ? Cos it makes me feel good ? Other ?

    Personally, I believe we are all responsible for the impact of the way we dress.

    My favourite T-shirt was one I saw in the USA, a guy in a white t-shirt that read;
    "You wear a tight-fitting, low cut top with a push-up bra, and then you blame me for looking"

    ….
    Girls, time to think again…..

    Reply
    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      What has any of that got to do with being raped?

    • Avril Clarke 09/09/11 #
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      @Barry. You seem really patronising. Comments like that are the reason why so many women don’t speak up, or even go to the Gardai after being raped, because that’s what they think people will think if they say anything. “Oh well, I was wearing that dress, maybe I deserved it.”

  • Conor Murphy 08/09/11 #
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    stupider comments here than youtube.
    if guys suddenly started getting beaten up and raped cause of how they were dressed the conversation would not be about clothing!
    people aren’t saying ignore reality, they’re saying help change it!!

    Reply
    • Dav Devalle 09/09/11 #
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      guys get beaten up for how they are dressed all the time

    • Report this comment

      You try walking into a Unionist/Republican neighbourhood in Glasgow wearing a Rangers/Celtic top. See how far that gets you and your right to wear whatever you like.

    • William O'Brien 11/09/11 #
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      Yes, and this is wrong and should be considered no less of a crime by the state or by society than any other case of ABH or GBH. The victims of such crimes should also in no way be considered responsible for these crimes by anyone including themselves.

  • Emily O'Brien 08/09/11 #
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    “Jesus lads are you mad. You should know by now that no matter what your opinion is on this it’s going to be wrong from a woman’s point if view. After all , all men are perverts …. Right . I think we should have a player walk.”

    you make me sick. check your privilege, bro. “player walk”. christ.

    the way a woman dresses has nothing to do with rape. rape is not an overwhelming desire to have sex. it’s about dominance and degradation. women get raped regardless of what they’re wearing. the whole POINT of a slutwalk is to defend a woman’s rights to wear what she wants, when she wants. saying a woman got raped because of what she was wearing, or that that was a factor, is victim-blaming. fucking rape apologists.

    “We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result,” reads the SlutWalk manifesto. “Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault.”

    Reply
  • Emily O'Brien 08/09/11 #
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    ps: comparing a PERSON’S PERSONAL SPACE to money is…honestly, nonsense. you are not stealing money here. you are violating someone and doing something that will effect them for their entire lives.

    Reply
    • Report this comment

      All the more reason to take the time and effort to make sure that it doesn’t happen to you.

    • Julia Smith 09/09/11 #
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      Fiachra. Do you really believe if all females for example began wearing the burka that this would lower the number of sexual assaults? Were all the children abused in Irish schools wearing sexy uniforms and not taking responsibility on themselves to prevent it happening to them? Were the victims school uniforms sexier than the non victims? Your comments are ignorant in the extreme, yes you state the obvious that sexual deviants exist but your statements imply diminished responsibility on their part based on how the victim dresses. Don’t get raped? Is it a choice then? A lot of people and this includes men, women and children had no choice in being raped and it’s in fact cruel for you to repeatedly dismiss their pain with your stupid mantra.

    • Report this comment

      I don’t imply diminished responsibility, and I think that arguments based on emotion are inherently invalid. What I do however believe is that it is in everyone’s interests to take steps so that they are not victims. Let’s face it, before a rapist is punished, he first has to rape. The Gardaí can’t cover every single square metre of ground, and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, crimes (including sexual crimes) will be committed without them being around to protect the victim.

      Some women can wear skimpy clothing, and never become the target of an attack, because they have the social skills to avoid getting themselves into high-risk situations. Some women wearing Burkhas will find themselves abused day in day out, because they don’t have the survival skills to escape. I can’t pass judgement on individuals that I haven’t met before, but I think that in every highly inflammatory remark, there is a grain (and perhaps only a grain) of truth – otherwise how else would it be so inflammatory?

      Right, or raped? Does any woman truly want the honour of taking the witness stand and using her right to testify against someone who sexually assaulted her? Using her right to get him sent to prison for a long time? No – because that would mean that she would first have to be sexually assaulted. We didn’t make this world, we only live in it. Had I had a chance to make another world, I’d love to make one in which rape never happens. But there is no point in hoping for the impossible.

  • neuromancer 09/09/11 #
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    A slut is someone who is known to sleep around with everyone. Ironic the name of the walk and the reason behind the walk.

    Reply
  • Niall Gallagher 09/09/11 #
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    I thought the whole slut walk thing was because some guy in the states said something stupid about dressing like a slut means your looking to be raped…. Why is it relevant to Ireland then? And girls dressing like sluts to raise awareness of something is no different to the hunky dory ad. I’m not trying to be facetious it just seems to miss the point and lack a bit of creativity

    Reply
    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      I think you miss the point tbh. Please read above comments.
      There are a number of issues being addressed here, I have outlined most of them in previous comments.
      And at the end of the day, this event is to provoke though and discussion on atabood subject, something it has done already across the country.
      It is relevant to Ireland because people/women get raped here also.

  • Chuck Eastwood 09/09/11 #
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    To Will O’Brian. Are you are that touchy that you find my comment offensive then you must spend most of your life upset and unable to mix with the greater public. I have two daughters and I know as every sane person does that if a woman goes out looking attractive never mind slutty as I don’t believe this word helps your case apart from grabbing head lines , she is more likely to be attacked and as disgusting and sad as that may be it’s just how it is. The cop who made the original comment was a misguided fool but his basic point stand true. Women who dress like sluts as you call it are more likely to be attacked. You should be lobbying the legal system to give longer prison terms rather that tit for tat comments here. Your not helping your cause. Who exactly is your cause aimed at

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    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      Please spell my name right, it’s right there in front of you and doesn’t take much effort. And no, I’m not touchy to the point that I give a flying shit about you or what you think about my private life and what I do with it.
      No one is trying to detract from the message that women should look after themselves, that is completely obvious and common sense. The point is that society, the state and law enforcement should in no way regard appearance or dress as in the slightest bit relevent in cases of assault both sexual and non sexual.
      The word ‘slut’ is provakative, yes it does attract headlines, this is true and in my opinion is only a good thing as it is provokative and therefore very relevant to the entire subject/argument. I don;t care if you agree with the use of the word or not, it is achieving its purpose very sucessfully, you taking the time to debate it to such lengths is testament to this.
      Who says I am not actively engaged in lobbying the legal system? Do you know for a fact what I do when I’m not replying to posts on the internet? No you don’t as clearly demonstrated by your baseless assumptions. To say I’m not helping my cause it just idiotic, the cause is exploding onto mainstream media and provoking thought and debate across the country, I have radio and newspapers calling me every day. We will also be raising money on the event for Galway Rape Crisis Centre that will go towards councilling and helping rape survivors in the local area, how is this not helping my cause? Please do explain.

      The cause is aimed at wider society, the state and the legal system in general. Interestingly enough, it is not directed at those who commit sexual crimes, more to change the way society in general regards such offences.

      One of the issues surrounding slutwalks is the very word ‘slut’ and questioning is it ok to use such derogatory, male orientated language to describe women.
      The entire event is to provoke debate, somthing that it is so far very sucessful at doing, far more than my initial expectations.
      I’m glad you have daughters and I am happy than you look out for them. I would be of the same opinion if I had daughters in that I would be unhappy with them going out dressed scantilly, the point is that just because they may dress in such a matter, if they were raped then it is just as serious a crime as if they were wearing jeans and a raincoat. Rape is rape, it is sexual violation regardless of the circumstances leading up to it and the appearance of the victim.

      What would be your opinion on women who have large breasts who get raped, obviously this is less of a personal choice (unless they are implants) but the principle is the same.
      By your logic large breasted women should be more likely to be raped, is this in any way the fault of the woman in question?
      The implants example is very good here, say a girl with breast implants gets raped, it is her fault for wanting to make herself look more attractive to men? Should women with breast implants expect to be more likely to be raped? Should the rape of women with breast implants be considered less of a crime by society?
      No, of course it isn’t so why should it?
      It is the very same as dressing scantilly.

  • Holly Treacy 09/09/11 #
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    Some of the comments on this…Dear Jesus…

    So as a woman then should I just break out the burqa? Will that keep me safe? Will I be able to walk down the street and not be “asking for it” then? Or maybe I should just stay in the kitchen forever. Thats the safest thing really. But what if the house collapses?! Well I suppose I was in the house so I must have been asking for it. And if I go for a drive in my car I’m clearly asking to crash.

    /sarcasm.

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    • William O'Brien 09/09/11 #
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      It is only by tackling, challenging and education people who hold these opinions that we will ever bring about changes in our society. It’s tedious but essential.

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      I would have thought that an education might have taught people to read what I actually said, rather than read two sentences and make counter arguments consisting of strawmen and emotional outrage.

      Seems I was wrong. And no, I’m not going to repeat myself once more for good measure.

  • Siobhán Ward 10/09/11 #
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    Dear Fiachra,

    Having read your comments, I find it interesting that you continue to miss the point. No-one is saying that women should not protect themselves.

    – ‘Standing around and arguing with someone who is about to attack you, whether sexually or physically or both, is inviting yourself to be attacked’

    – ‘Does any woman truly want the honour of taking the witness stand and using her right to testify against someone who sexually assaulted her?’

    You seem to be under the impression that women who take part in these walks are purposely trying to attract a rapist so that they too can have their moment in the spotlight, to make a point.
    That is NOT what the Slutwalks are about.
    There is no suggestion being made that women (or any person for that matter) should not protect themselves.

    – ‘“The general public” in principle at least supports the fact that women should not be raped just because they dress in a particular way (at least I very much hope they don’t).’

    I’m afraid this IS the point. It is about social attitude. The fact that these slutwalks have become such a global phenomenon reveals a sense of frustration experienced by millions of women, though perhaps only voiced openly by thousands. Though you may consider it an emotional response and therefore ‘inherently invalid’, in my opinion this wave of protests indicates that the general public does not support the victims of rape a well as it should.

    We are not sending out a memo to rapists, letting them know that we’re not okay with their attitudes. It is a social attitude we wish to change. Social attitudes to rape victims, but also to the underlying negative attitudes towards women who wish to take control of their own sexuality.

    – ‘While I agree entirely with the principles behind the protest, I’m not sure what practical good it will achieve’

    If you agree, then why do your comments seem to insist on avoiding this type of campaign? Is it from a deep-seated urge to protect the weaker sex? Do you feel that by drawing attention to ourselves we will only attract more male attention, which in turn will lead to ‘instincts going out of control’, as your link would put it?

    The ‘practical good’ is a society that respects the rights a person has to his or her body, and doesn’t try to shame the victim when another person violates these rights. I am simply repeating what has been said above. Perhaps your opponents are not the only ones who should learn to read.

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  • Jack Driscoll 10/09/11 #
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    Fiachra, you honestly make me sick.

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  • Lizzie 10/09/11 #
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    There are some fantastic comments here from some great people. Then there are really stupid comments from some small minded fools, it just proves that having things like a ‘slut walk’ is so important.

    It’s my blog that’s mentioned in the article and speaking from experience as someone who has been raped society does tend to blame the victim, hell i blamed myself for a long time. Why did I do that? Because of society. That’s all wrong. Ireland have one of the lowest rates of reporting of rape to actually going for a conviction. The DPP wouldn’t proceed with my case because alcohol was involved. That’s the only reason I got. That’s the kind of thing we need to change and people standing up like William and the rest of the organizers will help us make that change.

    People who intend to rape will go ahead and rape someone but maybe if we were a bit more inclined to convict the rapists then we might get more of them off the street.

    You can’t just tell women to be careful, sure you’d be living in fear forever and would have to look at every man and think is he going to rape me?? The message we should be sending is we as a society will not tolerate rape and if you do rape someone you will be punished. Sadly, in the majority of cases they aren’t punished.

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      Nobody disagrees with you. Rapists need to be punished, and one that really annoys the hell out of me is the practice of “concurrent sentencing” which essentially punishes someone who commits three rapes for only one of them.

      If there is incompetence in the police, public prosecution services, and the judiciary then that MUST be addressed. I have thought for a long time that the Office of the DPP is too much of a closed shop, and that he should be an elected individual rather than an appointee of government.

      At the same time though, the harsh reality is that there are rapists, and there always will be rapists. There is no way short of internment to arrest someone because “he might become a rapist”, even if he displays all the characteristics.

      The problem is that prosecuting rapists is so damn difficult, because it is a crime that usually bears no witnesses apart from the victim. And there is always the slightest chance that the sex could have been consensual.

      Legislators have been trying to find ways to deal with that core problem for a terribly long time, and they’ve been failing. There is a law in the UK (and it may well be in Ireland too) which states that a man cannot have sex with a drunk woman, because if she is drunk then she cannot consent. In that case, my father is a rapist, my sister’s boyfriend is a rapist, and so are a lot of other men that I know. Apart from the fact that the law creates another large possibility for a miscarriage of justice, it also badly serves the victims of rape. The reason being that it requires a blood test to prove that the she was drunk at the time. Now if most rape victims don’t get a rape kit done, then what is the likelihood that they’ll go down to the hospital to get a blood test?

      There is also the Age of Consent law, and while I think it has merits, it criminalises perfectly consensual sex. And although it does lower the burden of proof in genuine cases of child rape (a GOOD thing), it also risks putting non-rapists (in the traditional sense) in jail. Kids have sex under the age of seventeen – is that something to jail them for?

      It seems that every single time we try to fix the situation, we end up creating a series of other problems, which in turn have to be dealt with. My outlook on the matter is a very pessimistic one, because short of putting spy cameras in every single room in the country, men will rape women, and there will be no way of proving it.

      So returning to my standpoint: rape victims deserve to be treated kindly and respectfully, and above all not blamed for what has happened to them. At the same time though, I think it is in the interests of all women to look out for their own safety, and that of their friends. I think that it would be worth while disseminating information about how to avoid putting oneself in a situation where one could be raped, because it could save a lot of people from a terrible ordeal.

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      I forgot to mention that the English Criminal Justice (Sexual Offences) Act of 2003 does provide for witness testimony to the state of inebriation of the victim, but that could be torn to shreds by any capable defence council. If the victim was drinking at a pub/bar/house party, then chances are all the people that were in her company were drinking. As such, their judgement is impaired… you see where cross examination can go?

  • Lizzie 10/09/11 #
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    The legislation actually states in Ireland anyway that alcohol can not be used as an excuse to rape. As in the rapist can’t say that oh I was drunk I didn’t know what I was doing. In terms your comment about your father etc being a rapist, that’s not what the legislation states, what it means is that the victim must be in the state of mind to say yes or no.

    If a person is too intoxicated to say yes or no and the person has sex with them anyway then this is rape. Plenty of people of drunken sex that’s not the issue it’s when the victim is unable to consent. That’s actually what the law states.

    There will be situations where it’s a he said she said situation and rape itself is difficult to prove BUT there are also situations like mine where there is strong physical evidence of injuries sustained during the attack etc that still aren’t making it to court because the DPP feels that they won’t get a prosecution from the Jury and who are the Jury…we are. Why aren’t we convicting them? Because alot of people still think..what was she doing there? Why was she drunk? She should have known better, I would never let that happen to me. It’s a sad fact and if this mindset changes we might see a reduction in rape and certainly an increase in those who report it.

    I agree that the DPP is not transparent enough. I shudder to think what would happen if someone went in to audit them.

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      Drink is never an excuse to commit a crime, unless you’re forcibly drugged with alcohol against your consent that is. However this is not how it is under English law – if the victim is drunk and consented, then it wasn’t proper consent, because she was drunk. Hence the fact that I know a lot of rapists who’s victims don’t seem to care too much about it.

      I do imagine that there are plenty of cases where the DPP did not proceed to trial for ridiculous reasons. However even in places like America, where the public prosecutor is a democratically elected individual, the majority of cases get thrown out because it is the testimony of one individual against another.

      Given that rapists who are smart enough to cover their tracks have a reasonable expectation of getting off scot free, I think the law of the jungle is going to reign supreme for quite some time. And for purely ideological reasons, I do not want to see an end to the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” and requiring that the prosecution prove their case “beyond reasonable doubt” in criminal trials.

      We’re unfortunately in a situation where the law of the jungle seems to reign supreme, and that the best thing women can do is make sure that they aren’t easy prey. In the mean time, we can only hope that there is some radical new development in science and technology that can help establish a clear cut difference between rape and consensual sex. Because right now the defence can very easily put forward alternative theories for most of the biological evidence:

      “Evidence of penetration? So what – they had consensual sex.”

      “Vaginal trauma? So what – she liked it rough.”

      “Severe bruising to her body – oh that would be the fact that she’s a fan of BDSM.”

      Trials are notoriously long and cruel proceedings for rape victims. Again, this is a curse that cannot seemingly be alleviated, because it would mean banning the defence from offering an alternate theory of events. That goes against one of the core concepts of jurisprudence.

      So rape victims are hounded on all fronts:

      1) They get raped.
      2) They have to get a rape kit, make a statement to the police (not by any means a piece of cake).
      3) They have to stand up in court (assuming the case gets that far) and relive the experience.
      4) They have to answer the intrusive questions posed by the defence, aimed at discrediting them even further.
      5) Even if there is a positive outcome for them from the case, chances are the rapist will be walking the streets again within ten years. The punishment never seems long enough.

      The best thing any woman can do is to take steps to ensure that it never happens to her. I think nobody can possibly argue against that logic, because being raped itself is really just the beginning of a long, painful and drawn out process where the outcome will never be satisfactory.

  • Siobhán Ward 11/09/11 #
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    Fiachra,

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me that the Slutwalks are a waste of time to you. I’m trying to understand why you keep pushing the ‘don’t get raped’ agenda, without really considering the benefits of this campaign.

    You repeat again and again that women should stay safe, stay out of trouble.

    You’ve clearly researched this, but I feel that your persistent manner and lack of recognition for pro-slutwalk comments translates as a highly negative, deliberate attempt to discourage the campaign.

    I agree… but… simply means I’ll pretend to agree but here’s what I really think

    I would like to know, are you really that pessimistic about your own sex? And do you feel that society will never truly change its attitude towards women and sexuality?

    I could be wrong. I think that a lot of the negative reactions to Slutwalks are based on the misinformed notion that they are encouraging innocent young women to go out and be promiscuous, to hell with the consequences. Do you feel that naive girls will be misled by the campaign, hence your efforts to stress the ‘don’t get raped’ agenda?

    I would genuinely like to know what you think, because frankly I think you underestimate the common sense of most women.

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      I am pessimistic about my own sex, yes. I think that every man, including myself, has the propensity to rape if put in the right (or should I say “wrong”) circumstances. Just like every single human being can commit murder, if put in the right (or “wrong”) circumstances. Needless to say, I find this idea quite disturbing, and it is to be taken as plain fact, not as an excuse for men to commit rape.

      I’m fully supportive of the right of women to go out dressed in whatever they like, or nothing at all, as takes their fancy. However it’s also worth noting that having a right does not mean that it will not be violated, in the most grievous way. There is the trade off.

      I think that most women are aware of the merits of avoiding situations where they can be raped. What I am really attacking is the taboo on the “don’t get raped” agenda. The idea of having a responsibility to yourself, not to put yourself in a situation, where your safety will be compromised (and this applies to men as much as women) too often gets confused with blaming the victim for a crime.

      Promiscuity isn’t a problem per se. Being dressed in revealing clothing isn’t the same as being promiscuous – if that were the case then every single girl dressed in a bikini would be branded a “slut”. I think that the biggest problem is in fact alcohol and drugs, and generally having one’s reaction time impaired. If a girl is dressed in revealing clothing, then that could make her a potential target for a (future) rapist. If she’s drunk, then she is not only a potential target, but one whom the (future) rapist has a good chance of raping.

      The “don’t get raped” agenda has much more to it than an outfit, or even alcohol – it involves survival skills.

      I think that Slutwalk is a great idea, but I think that the energy could be better spent on teaching women how to avoid getting in situations where they could be raped. The noticeable effects would be much more immediate.

  • Lizzie 11/09/11 #
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    I think the best thing to do now is for me to stop communicating with you Fiachra, I find your comments offensive and small minded to be honest. It goes without saying that everyone regardless of the type of crime should protect themselves from becoming a victim of any crime, that’s why people lock their doors.

    I’m actually disgusted at your last comment.

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      The problem lies in the fact that there is a taboo against teaching women how to avoid rape. Which is quite sad, as there is a lot of information available on exactly how they occur, and how to foresee the danger. Every single time the point is raised, that there are ways to avoid dangerous situations, it gets branded as “blaming the victim”. That way a lot of future victims are being needlessly being allowed walk into harms way. Most women don’t see rape coming – they don’t recognise true extent of the danger, even though the rapist is standing right in front of them. If they did, they could run, but they don’t… I find the idea of that, truly awful.

      This type of information is not obviously apparent: decades of research into behavioural science stands behind it. The survival skills are complex and incredibly useful, but cannot be taught, because it is seen as demeaning. How can disseminating information be demeaning?

      I suppose I can understand how the line of thought can go. A woman may think: “If I know how to avoid a situation where I can be raped, but nevertheless choose to put myself in such a situation, and get raped, then I’m at fault.”

      There may even be some men who are ignorant enough to believe that.

      Even still, I say loudly and clearly: “Not true. You are simply ‘guilty’ of putting yourself in a situation where rape could occur. You are guilty of something which is not a crime, and never should be a crime. The real crime was that sick individual raping you. Even if you did compromise your own safety, he was the one who ultimately chose to do the evil deed, and should be punished for it.”

      To use the locked doors analogy: if I leave my door open, and my house is robbed, then the thieves deserve to be punished. The crime involved was robbing goods from my house house, not leaving the door open, and the thieves were the ones who robbed it.

      Teaching women how to avoid situations where they could be raped should be a matter of public policy. It’s illogical and incomprehensible that the incorrect idea that victims are being blamed stands in its way.

  • Siobhán Ward 12/09/11 #
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    So essentially you feel that Slutwalks are distracting from the real problem?

    ‘The best thing any woman can do is to take steps to ensure that it never happens to her.’ Is it because protecting yourself from rape and taking part in a Slutwalk are mutually exclusive ideas?

    Why are these two contradictory in your mind?
    To quote William O’Brien above: ‘the cause is exploding onto mainstream media and provoking thought and debate across the country, I have radio and newspapers calling me every day. We will also be raising money on the event for Galway Rape Crisis Centre that will go towards councilling and helping rape survivors in the local area’

    I think it’s rather narrow-minded to think of the Slutwalks as one-dimensional, distracting from the real truth, and I strongly disagree that protecting yourself from rape is a taboo subject. True, there may not be as much discussion on the topic as there should be, but if anything the Slutwalks, as well as defending women’s rights, are bringing the issue to the fore – certainly not distracting from it.

    You say you’re pessimistic about your own sex. Doesn’t this campaign have the potential to change the mindset of many males? Of course everyone is a potential rapist, murderer, baker, shoemaker, but a change in social attitudes can mean a change in the thought process of a man who might otherwise have let his animalistic side run wild.

    Take for example your hypothetical situation involving the ‘socially inept male’. Right now he may understand her way of dressing as an intentional seduction technique, and thus less likely to question what had been implanted in his head through our highly sexualised media, that is ‘woman as an object’.

    But had he grown up into a different society he could be more aware of the fact that maybe she just likes the way she looks in that dress. Humans have a fascinating ability to control their most primal instincts, more so than any other species. This ability is sharpened through education, new ideas and logic.

    Not too long ago it was the accepted idea that a woman’s place was the household. It was a fact, just as it was a fact that black people were second-class citizens and homosexuals were evil.

    I think that minds can be changed. And while there will probably be rapists, sexists, racists and homophobics far into the future, we can always change much of those who could potentially become one, through this type of campaign.

    Idealistic, I know, but plausible too. While I agree that is not the case now, and I agree that one should protect oneself, I find your pessimism extremely disheartening. It’s very much a case of ‘protect you and your own, because you can’t change it.’

    Perhaps you should have said to the Libyans: ‘While I agree in principle with overthrowing the government, wouldn’t it have been better to just not be oppressed in the first place?’

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  • Shauna Kearney 13/09/11 #
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    hi Fiachra,,,

    I’m a 26 year old woman who works part-time in dublin and is a full time student in Limerick. I travel from work and college to home on public transport and on foot almost always alone and at varies times in the evening and night. I would really appreciate if you could take the time to explain to me clearly how I should avoid getting raped, as in your posts you talk about how women should protect themselves? please dont send me your link as I would like you to explain it to me, as your posts describes it as “common sense”. From my understanding men and women can get raped in all different situations and from all walks of life,, so where did they go wrong what “common” mistake did they all make??

    Please consider my experiance , recently I was at a bus stop at 6.00 in the evening wearing my work uniform which is loose black trousers and a long baggy tee -shirt. My hair was tied back and I had no make up on. A man approached me and tried but was not successful to sexually assault me. What in your opinion was my mistake? What did I do to not protect myself? I need to work to fund my 3rd level education, I cannot afford taxi’s or my own car. I’m not attacking you here Fiachra but I’m inviting you into the day in the life of me as a woman in Ireland.

    This is not the only time this type of sexual harressment has happened to me, but like a lot of women I didnt complain or even report it. I had unfortunately internalised the discourse that seems to be in our society that it is part of what a woman has to put up with. This is not right and I know this now thanks to the media’s attention to the Slutwalks happening around the world and here in Ireland. For me rape is not about clothing but about power. Slutwalks are giving some of the power back to women by giving them a voice, a voice to say that no woman deserves to get get raped no matter what the situation is. Full Stop.

    I know you have been busy replying to posts on this but I do actually believe that you represent the opinion of large part of society, so i would be interested in what your opinion on my experiance and what you think i should do to avoid incidents like these (apart from win the lotto so that i can buy a car and never have to work again!!)

    thanks a mil

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