In terms of liability, it’s quite easy to tell you’re not liable if you don’t own property. Also, if you do own a house the liability is pretty clear — if you’re entitled to mortgage interest supplement, or in an unfinished estate, or if you’re outside of the home long-term for medical reasons (ie in a care home), or qualify for TRS.

Actually, TRS doesn’t qualify you for a waiver.

“Is Mortgage Interest Relief or Tax Relief at source (TRS) a waiver from the Household Charge?

Under the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011, those on Mortgage Interest Relief or Tax Relief at Source (TRS) ARE LIABLE for the Household Charge”
https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk48

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/list-of-unfinished-estates-exempt-from-household-charge.html

This is not the property tax. It’s a household tax so the occupier of the house who is using the service should pay. They have these taxes in every other European country and we should have been paying them all along, like before rates were abolished by FF to buy votes. Instead they are introduced in a panic when people can least afford it.

Is that the council that has brand new offices worth millions, sitting idle, but the council claims are “unsuitable”?

Hear hear.

Stop using the Internet….you’d be surprised how much you’d save a,

Im his neighbour, he uses mine!

What happened Paddy?
Swallow your phone?

I never got anything posted to my home about a household charge…….so therefore am I liable? If I don’t know about it now can I be liable?

@Paddy. Internet is on my phone. Got a iPhone on bill 4 years ago. 2 year ago I changed to ready-to-go on O2 and kept iPhone. Now I pay €20 a month in one top up. Of that €20, following day €10 goes for Internet bundle. That credit lasts me for the month. It Has to. If I run out of credit I get on Internet and text whoever. All my family are O2 so the €20 top up gives me free calls and texts to them. But I still can’t afford the household charge… 100 this year, 500 plus next year

Falstaff
You’re using a 3GS? No wonder you’re so bitter!

Funny how those who didn’t get a letter about the household charge are so informed about the arguments relating to it.

Why do you need a letter then?

Looks like Paddy ran out of money during that comment. ;-)

the journal hiding comments again tut tut

I wouldn’t call him bitter. Like a lot of the country he cant afford to pay, how is that bitter? At least he is standing up for something he believes is wrong. When will the rest of Ireland (i.e the ones who have paid) grow a set of balls and stand up to these criminals they call the government!

I think the point, Tom, is that he obviously CAN afford to pay. As other people have been implying it’s high farce for someone to be tapping away at a luxury item like an internet phone to put on the poor mouth about not having €2 a week. The fact he then comes on about how he ‘only’ pays €360 a year on it like that proves how down on his luck he is just compounds how out of touch such statements are.

Especially when it’s €2 extra to pay on a house that’s, in all probability, not even in negative equity (since otherwise he’d almost certainly not be liable for the charge), while others struggle to keep up on outstanding mortgage debt 2-3 times the value of their home, or else can’t afford to own their own home at all.

Peter / Paddy / David, seeing as you guys have so much money and can afford to pay this immoral charge so easily, why don’t you volonteer to pay the bill on behalf of the folks that say they can’t afford it. Seriously, the way you guys attack folks that say they can’t afford it, beggars belief.
FFG made their attitudes known well yesterday, when they used the term ‘facists’ as a label for the anti-charge protestors in Cork yesterday.
FFG/Labour are now as far out of touch with reality, as their FF buddies. SHAME.

@Peter Nolan

As I said Peter, it’s €100 this year (or as you pointed out €2 per week) but next year it’ll be over €500 (€10 per week) and no doubt it will increase year on year. So no. I can’t afford that.

@Peter Nolan

And by the way Peter, €20 X 12 is €240 and not €360. Do your maths. Is it any wonder this country is fecked. Are you working in the department of finance by any chance?

The very first communication I received was a letter to say that I was required to pay up and was already overdue!

That’s no way to encourage payment from ordinary people in middle Ireland who have no option but to pay for everything.

Falstaff: you said: “. Now I pay €20 a month in one top up. Of that €20, following day €10 goes for Internet bundle. ” I read that as meaning you got €20 and then an additional €10. Sorry about that.

The point does stand, though, that you pay hundreds of euros on just one luxury item alone and actually hold up not having the latest iPhone as an example of why people should feel sorry for you being expected to pay €2 a week on the property you own.

As for not paying the €100 this year because you can’t afford a higher tax next year: you’ll be obliged to pay that either way. It’s delusional to think you’re saving, not losing, money by not paying the charge.

(By the way, I really do underline that I’m sorry for misreading your original post as being indicating two separate payments of €20 and €10 — that was entirely my fault).

iT’S NOT YOUR DEBT – FG ARE STILL PAYING THE BONDHOLDERS.

http://bondwatchireland.blogspot.ie/

Peter. I don’t think in down on my luck and I apologise if I gave that impression. I wasn’t using the iPhone as an example either. I was simply replying to earlier post that I should give up the broadband and I’d be able to pay for household charge and all I was doing was explaining how im on the Internet. But staying with the phone, I’d agree with you on it that its a item of luxury I could do without. But I got it 4 years ago and it was free. 4 years ago there was little if any talk of a household charge. I can’t afford to pay €600 for a new phone if this one breaks. It’s ridiculous to pay that much on any item of luxury. I promise you my next phone will not be more than €40 if that’ll buy one.
Also I know that its inevitable I’ll end up paying the charge but I’ll deal with that when the time comes. At this moment in time I’m living on a overdraft supporting a wife and two girls. I physically and financially do not have €127 to hand over to anyone in one go. I’m already €766 over drawn.
I also did not know that if you are in negative equity to may be exempt from the charge. Are you speculating or is this fact?

ditto!

Yes Pamela… you know the only way to know we have achieved recovery is when rich people are destitute and thrown out of their homes… makes us all feel better to see them fail, doesn’t it!?

I refused to pay it until this morning (I folded). But the reason I refused was, I paid a huge amount in tax last year. 5 times the national average actually… so, I think I have already paid enough, and enough for 4 other people too.
Anyway, pay it, don’t pay it. But don’t say you can’t pay it. It is a tiny percentage of people who can’t pay it, and none of them have the means to go online and comment on it!

True Pamela , the CSO figures only serve to highlight the gulf in the income levels between the richest and poorest in our society over the past 5 years!

Darren, get off your bloody high horse will you. If Pamela wants to talk about her reasoning for not paying, she can. Who the Hell are you to come on here and tell her she can’t.

Darren, that tiny percentage could use the free internet access at local libraries ;) I have not paid as I’ve gotten no request for any payments of charges, no post, no email or no phone call. None at all. I don’t go actively seeking bills so until I get one I wont pay.

Lee.. try reading my post again. I didn’t disagree with her not paying it at all… she said she won’t, not she can’t.
It is the people saying they can’t that I don’t believe.. I admire her for staying strong…
But the boring attack on the successful among us is what I disagree with..

Ed, if your situation is as how you describe it,I feel so sorry for you and also ashamed that my country allows and actually enforces that type of indignity and hardship on a genuine decent citizen!

Mark
Did you register ? Because if you registered they have your details and you will be liable for property tax at 0.25 % !
Would you pay it if you were liable ? Could you ?

He’ll be liable for whatever property tax they introduce regardless, and so will you.

N o Peter
Not if we stand together and stay strong ! .
Peter , Do you not think we pay enough already ? Without paying this ebt that was incurred NOT on my behalf or yours no doubt . So why are YOU SO eager to force people into an untenable situation ?

Peter is right, you’re only kicking the can down the road, we finally paid it 2 weeks ago because we were thinking of renting our property out and finding somewhere else to rent (apartment too small now after 6 years). It was hard doing it, especially as it came to €127 with late fees and interest, so basically, while I agree in many ways that it’s an unjust charge for some people, we were first-time buyers so we didn’t pay stamp duty, whether it actually goes to local services is another thing. It is the norm in most countries that you pay a property tax, and they will get you one way or the other, and probably sooner rather than later. I think it’s misleading to make people think that if you don’t register or didn’t get a letter you’ll be grand, I used to think this but the website clearly states it’s a self-service operation and you will receive a letter at some stage or another. In addition I heard from a solicitor friend that the Law Society will not process any transfer of deeds in sale of properties that have not paid the charge, so you can’t sell or rent out your property without. With a heavy heart I paid it, but I would only have been paying a lot more down the road so I’ve saved in the long run.

Gaius Gracchus
I respect you for holding out as long as you did , I am disappointed that you felt the pressure ! Good luck in your new home !

It wasn’t really pressure Eileen, it was as simple as we would not be able to rent out our apartment unless we had paid it, thanks though!

Gaius Gracchus
Yes you would have ! You don’t transfer deeds when you own a property and decide to rent … That is when you sell it deeds are transferred . You are still the owner ! Anyway if it is paid it is paid .

Not according to the estate agent Eileen, and he had nothing to gain from me paying it, when becoming a landlord you need to register with various state agencies, including tax, so I presume it would have become an issue at some point, we didn’t go ahead with the move in the end, wasn’t worth it financially

Gaius Gracchus
Of course , I am sure your estate agent would not lead you astray, however I believe the NPPR is for people who own two or more houses . Obviously you know what is best for you .

PotAto PotAHto!

Let’s not be pedantic. A charge or levy imposed by a legislative authority is a tax. It is nothing else but a tax and defaulting on it places a legal charge or lien on the property it refers to. Such a charge can affect the householder in so many negative ways that the refusal to pay is extremely unwise.

Paddy where did you study law?Particularly tax law.

Dec not going to address a two word comment.

Norm, whats your minimum word count threshold for responding to comments?

Sorry, that’s the way the “less educated” will see it! Lipstick on a pig!

Gag your’ve achieved it does that answer your question?

Well Paddy are you going to let me know where you studied law?

Partly, Norman – its more than 2 but less than or equal to 11.

Specifics man, I need specifics!

being well educated dosen mean anything really its more of a who can piss higher.posting a essay of a comment here will more than likely be skipped past as most are pure dribble dressed in big words by keyboard warriors

letter came in the door….. my address as in house number but in my neighbours name……so i couldn’t open letter because it’s illegal to open another person’s post…..my neighbour has emigrated so what am i to do???

@the kop there is guidelines to this
1.pick up letter
2.proceed to nearest bin/fire
3.place letter into bin/fire
4.(most important) turn on the kettle and have a nice cuppa

thanks for guidelines vinnie…..

You’ll regret it on the long run. The charge is going nowhere and is only growing all the time. Even if you never sell your house (because if you did the charge will be taken out of the sale) it will be taken out of your estate when you die. At that point who knows how much of your estate will be interest and penalties!

With you all the way and some day soon I am going to say fcuk this and send the keys back to the Bank and get the hell out of this land of sheeple

It can grow to a million for all i care. How can they get money out of people who have none. Good luck with that. Not paying and i won’t pay. Immoral and unjust is right Enda I agree.

My children need to be fed,clothed, and schooled already paying lots of taxes, axe has to fall somewhere cutbacks are a terrible thing.

It’s got nothing to with ownership. When rates were paid by home owners for many years it had noting to do with ownership either. If you own a car and pay road tax you still own the car. Same with you TV.

That’s not a very well thought out analogy if you don’t mind me saying Reg. I can own a car; it is my right. I only have to pay a road tax if I want to use my car on a public road.

Reg those are all examples of stupid taxes that cost a fortune to collect and keep Gardaí and the courts busy and fat pursuing “evaders”.

Raise vat on esb if u need a household tax

Raise vat on Petrol and diesel and abolish car tax

Abolish the tv license and let rte sink or swim

Also I have maybe 3 TV’s and two ready to be dumped. I am not liable for any tax on them. The TV licence you mention is for if you have a receiver. The new household media charge will replace this and they will be asking all households for this – nothing to do with the TV which is your private property.

@ Reg… Rates were paid by all and sundry not just home owners
But then it was decided to increase income tax to collect the rates. Then the rates were abolished so that meant we paid for collection of refuge and paid higher road tax on cars and even bus fares went up to cover the cost.
Now in 2012 this Government have decided to devise and conquer the people of this once wonderful country by this Charge and ONKY impose a House Hold Charge on the folk who bought their own home
Does this mean that if I live in a County Council home I do nit gave to pay as I do not need / ir will nit be supplied with the services that this House Hold charge is supposed to cover along with Street Lighting so my street lights will be turned off mr phill hogan please explain why only one sector of the community are “obluged ” to pay this ????

@paul. Ah, the “broadband tax”. At a time when those muppets stress the importance of having broadband in every home in the country. They’re truly moronic in their thinking

It’s either the household charge or the bin charge! Panda won’t empty my bin if I don’t pay. Not sure what happens if I don’t pay household charge. Maybe that Hogan bloke will come round and threaten me or something. Bullies don’t scare me anymore though!

Actually they do have stamp duty in the UK and France and they still collect similar annual charges.

You obviously can’t do that if it’s addressed to you or the householder.

“These people are trying to give you paperwork that you do not want as it is theirs and not your paperwork.”
What does that mean?

“You do not have to pay this.”
Actually you do, its the law.

“It is just asked of you as a favour. ”
Thats just not true.

“Once you do pay, you have agreed and are in a contract. ”
Where are you getting this stuff from?

Gagsy… from SF and the United Looney Alliance…

This Freeman of The Land nonsense is hilarious.

it is law and you do have to pay but I refuse to as I never borrowed or took risks and would not expect others to pay for my stupidity..

the English pay a yearly house tax **BUT** they get bins and medical included don’t be taken in by this bull sh1t that its for local services our government had decided to cut spending in the areas the house tax is for and will stop the basic services if we refuse THE HOUSE TAX MONEY IS FOR THE BANKS..all the money comes into the main pot and is divided up between the different sections for services

Damn Gabriel.. and skipping meals makes you fart more too…

I paid enough stamp duty when buying the house so they can go to hell….

Maybe if they reduced the list of extra pay and expenses that they get on top of their ridiculous salaries then there would be money available to local governments

Niamh, you paid 1% stamp duty on vastly lower house prices. That’s a pretty insignificant amount in the scheme of things. Count yourself lucky that the grossly unfair system of high stamp duty rates have been reformed, some people had to pay tens of thousands in the last 15 years. An annual charge is a much fairer system.

Many people are renting but this charge still has to be paid by the house owner. Just because many people are exempt doesn’t mean it isn’t being paid.

Reg, if I didn’t know that much I wouldn’t like to say what I’d think we are.

Ah go on, pay it!

Gagsy!
Say that next year when the HHC turns into a property tax and you have to pay at least 0.25% of the value of your home ,and because you have registered you will be first hit . This house hold charge was only a data collecting exercise ,self registration. I will not pay it ..

I would expect that like it or not all or most will eventually have to pay it, especially when the Revenue assume the responsibility for collecting it.
I would like to see that those who can pay it are properly forced to pay it and for those who genuinely can’t that there is a transparent mechanism for relief or exemption to be granted.

Ah Gagsy ,
Aren’t you a good little citizen ! I suppose you won’t have a problem either when identity cards are introduced and you wont be able to get a bus or go to the cinema without producing it !! Jesus wept ! The arrogance and false self importance shower exhibit make me fear for the future . There is nothing you lot would not do to prove your superiority. That is a dangerous game ! Turn away from it !

Congratulations — ‘don’t pay the property tax of you’ll need an identity card to get into cinemas’ is the most laughable rationale I’ve yet heard in any discussion on this. And it’s had some competition, I can tell you.

Eileen, I’m a participating citizen in this democracy is all. Neither a good little one n
or a bad big one.
I don’t have a view yet on id cards. I didn’t hear that there were plans on requiring id cards to go to the cinema or use a bus and I imagine I’d be very much against that. I’d be very interested to know when was that plan mooted?

Eileen, I just have a particular view on this issue.
I don’t think I’m part of a ‘lot or a ‘shower’.
And unfortunately I’ve nothing to be arrogant, self important or superior about. I used to be very good (I might even go as far to say superior to most) at the hula hoop. I could spin that yoke on my svelt tummy for hours on end. But those days are gone – I can hardly fit one around me now.

Laugh away Peter Nolan , I do not mind ! I will be laughing when they put kibosh on the property tax you can thank us Nay sayers then ! :) :)

@Peter Nolan,

Did you ever hear of a cashless society? Or ubiquitous cities?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/technology/techspecial/05oconnell.html

Why do you think ATM cards are becoming Debit Cards?

More up-to date example:
http://newsroom.cisco.com/songdo

Ok Gagsy
Point taken . Can I invite you to a public meeting of the Campaign Against the house hold charge ? You see that just like you we are all citizens of this ”democracy” .I say ”democracy ” in inverted commas because daily it is beginning to feel like an oligarchy http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oligarchy#Browsers . I have manny issues with the hhc as you know and I feel very strongly about it.If you knew me you would know that as a person I have never been involved in anything even remotely like this before .However I just feel enough is enough. Let me know if you can come to the meeting .

And can you explain why not paying the household charge forestalls any of those concerns, Mick?

Peter Nolan
Check this out ……
http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-is-the-new-social-welfare-id-card-a-good-idea-444620-May2012/ It is also called a Public Service Card in the article .

@Peter Nolan

Quite simply it doesn’t, however If we simply accept every single tax levied on us then we will all be living in a cashless society literally, unless of course your in a position of power – a golden circle if you will.

In the near future when distributed rfid chips will be everywhere from bins to cinemas and public transport then any kind of civil disobedience will result the situation like Eileen described.

At the moment while I still have a choice I will not pay, simply because it forces those demanding payment to explain why I should register for the tax when so much public money is wasted on the wages of politicians, semi state bodies, corporations (i.e Dublin Corporation).
Why are all the quangos still being funded with our money for example? Why don’t we enforce the 12.5% corporate tax rate that we advertise?

Or better yet have a why don’t we implement some form triage that loosely resembles the ideal of looking after the needs of the many instead of the few for a while?

Mick
Well said . ggod links too thanks !

Thanks Eileen but its not likely that I would attend a campaign meeting.
I’ve read and heard all the arguments against the HCC at this stage.
I certainly acknowledge and accept some of those arguments but on balance I still think that those who can pay should pay it.
I’m not really a serious contributor to this forum and am no doubt often guilty of annoyingly trivialising issues that are important to others so I apologise to you for that.

(But still, go on, Pay the charge!)

Gagsy
You’re a rogue:) ! The invitation still stands, your apology is not necessary ,as we are all entitled to our opinion , but thank you all the same . No . I will not be paying it !

Revenue aren’t looking after it yet.

Well, yeah, whatever anyone thinks of the charge in principle, it’s certainly been rolled out with a massive ball of shambolic feckupery attached to its leg.

Why did you buy a house so far away from your place of work?

@_doesnot We built a house close to both our home places and families.

Also, where I work now is different to where I worked then. Unfortuately there are no more jobs closer to my home, in the sector I am skilled in so needs must

Too right Nigel, New Ross & District Pipe Band?

I completely agree!

The landlord pays the household charge and recoups that through the rent he gets from the tenant so tenants are paying it indirectly. The fact that you don’t think people who can’t afford to buy a house don’t contribute anything says a lot.

They have always fudged the numbers Stephen .
Don’t register , Don’t Pay !

@ moccy “If nobody obeys, nobody rules…”

‘Rules’ is what monarchs do.
If there was a “King Enda”, the only throne he ever sat on was made of porcelain.
And bad law is no law at all, it is a mockery and an insult to the proper administration of justice.

Padraig
Say that next year when the HHC turns into a property tax and you have to pay at least 0.25% of the value of your home ,and because you have registered you will be first hit . This house hold charge was only a data collecting exercise ,self registration. I will not pay it .

Padraig, income tax used to be 1%

I rent so I am not affected by this personally, but my parents are on the state pension and almost finished paying off their mortgage on a small cottage in the country… do you have any idea what 100euros means to them?
They need to keep a car on the road, and they pay road tax which is supposed to pay to look after the roads…. there are no other “public amenities” to speak of, so why should they pay??? what are they paying for?
Some black hole debt that has nothing to do with them!!

I agree Siobhan, ;)
The glass alone in that building must have cost a million..
So unnecessary and wasteful..
I get so outraged every time i pass it..

So what is the first step for one person to take?

Marty,
Go along to your next local CAHWT meeting. Become an active member in your local area. Members can bring motions/proposals to their local branch which if passed are brought to the National steering committee to be ratified. So you could forward the proposal above as it stands or make any amendments, improvements that you like.

Questions:

When the banks’ assets are sequestered how do you deal with the run on the banks that will immediately happen and when the banks then collapse how do you fund the massive volume of claims on the state deposit protection scheme?
How do you ‘sell’ to the nation the even worse austerity from having to immediately eliminate the budget deficit?
Even though the banks are not sufficiently active now in providing credit they are nonetheless the only show at the moment – if the govt is to step in an take on this function where does it raise the funding to lend to the economy?

Answers and some more Questions:

Capital controls, especially those on money leaving the country can be introduced to prevent a run on the banks until the situation stabilises.

Why do you assume that we will immediately have to eliminate the budget deficit?

Where are the banks raising the funding to lend (or in reality not ) to the economy now?
The banks don’t have the power to create new money out of thin air. (Most states on the other hand do have that power).
What the banks do have is a license (issued by the state) to buy and sell money. They engage in fractional reserve banking where they lend out multiples of the money they actually have on deposit. They can do this because they know that they will not be called on to honour all of the deposits at any one time. If that happens then a run on the bank ensues.
The state can operate the same mechanism of fractional reserve banking to lend to the people and businesses in the economy.

I like milk.

Now, where do I get my money?

DM me your bank account details on Twitter.

But you can stand for paying the HHC?

With that logic, if you don’t walk in the park you can claim a discount.

If they can take it our of your estate then that means they have a claim on your house.
You should just direct your mortgage payments towards the government if that’s the case because it means that you don’t own your own house.
I’m hoping to buy a house soon but I’ll be damned if they will get the household charge off me. The stamp duty will have me covered for many years in my eyes.

John,
There may already be a local branch of the Campaign against the Household and Water Tax (CAHWT) in your area. Contact the campaign at the link below and they will let you know. http://nohouseholdtax.org/get-involved/

Poodle.

?

People rent local authority houses , They don’t own them !

The fact that first time buyers didn’t have to pay stamp duty just reinforces my point Niamh. You could have been a millionaire first time buyer and you would have been exempt. Now everyone has to pay a small stamp duty charge if you purchase and then an annual charge, a much fairer system. Many people purchased their homes many years ago and comparatively paid very little stamp duty and have paid no property related taxes since.

Try using the reply button next time to keep posts in the same thread.

I still wont be paying the household charge as fair or as unfair you or anyone else may find this charge. Wait for the budget this house hold charge is only the start , next year the property tax they introduce is going to be much more severe. Its just another taxation on people who simply cant afford to pay it including me.

Actually first time buyers at the peak of the boom had to pay the full whack of stamp duty if they were buying a second hand house. Not bitter, or anything….

Yes Lisa that is correct, the Fianna Fail subsidy to the builders. Had to pay stamp duty as a first time buyer of a second hand home myself.

But your credit rating will be affected, as will your criminal record… but I see where you’re coming from

You can pay it off at 10 quid a month totalling 120 quid when you could have paid it at 25 quid a quarter totalling 100 quid.

Where’s the logic?

Thankfully, I don’t need to borrow, but feel I am already in credit to Co.Council for water rates I paid in the 90′s for 3 1/2 yrs. Those that didn’t pay are the richer by over 300 punts.

Absolutely spot on. Brilliant article.

I used to hate that too when I was young and naieve and brain washed by FG BS. Now I am older wiser poorer and retired and I know I am kinder …. Gissa job ! Go on tell us all where there are jobs ! Can you do that ?

I am young but not naive. I don’t follow any political party. Yes jobs are hard to come by. I myself was on the dole for 2 months. But I eventually got a job. I just think 100 euro household charge isn’t much to pay.

Kevin
As you say . You are young and naieve . Ha ha …. My generation have paid are still paying and thanks to promissory notes my grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying waaaaaaay in to the future . When you have your own house and when you have worked more years than you have thus far lived come back and tell me that … Have a nice day Kevin .

Well Eileen, I see your generation hasn’t changed one bit, still negative and lots of poor me’s. Its just a bit sad that most of your generation that I know of, are only happy when complaining about something/someone. If ya think you know it all run for the dáil!

Kevin ….
Maybe I will run ,,,,,actually walk (at my age running is a bit beyond me ) for the Dáil . At least I have experience and life values behind me ,and I do not fall for just anything ! Thanks .

Why exactly are you against this charge? Like at the end of the day, if we all pay this very reasonable tax of 100 euro, it is helping our children and their children have a better way of living. Rather than seeing more people live the country.

I am against this charge because I can not afford it , it is not a fair charge, I pay PAYE, Income Levy and USC.My pension has been reduced , my mortgage increased, Petrol increased ,dog license increased, ESB, Increased, Gas increased, No medical card altho I have a chronic illness… , threats of water metres, road tax increased, insurance increased, grocery bills increased, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ! Have to go now and get my son’s dinner ready he is still in school !

I could pay but won’t on principle. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Fair enough.

It’s not a question of afford or not. I cannot afford it, but even if I could I wouldn’t – it is not a service charge, it is a payment to the bondholders, and only the bondholders.

We pay more tax than almost every nation under the EU banner. We pay for our own bin collections, we pay far more fuel tax than more than 75% of other EU nations, for Gods sake even someone earning just over minimum wage hits the upper bracket of tax for all their earnings over the DOLE.

Regardless of afford or not afford, there is no service being offered here that is not already part of another tax already being taken. Our USC charges alone are crippling us, to the point where families cannot eat properly.

I hear you John. In fact our whole tax system needs an overhaul.

I hear you John. Our whole tax system needs an overhaul

That sheep mentality will only get you so far,
If the minister of Heath can not bother paying debts why should we?
If td mick Wallace can’t be bothered in paying his debts why should we?
If phil hogan does not pay his property charges on his villa in Spain why should we?
If the hse carries puts a cap on the age limit for the mobility allowance for the disabled (which is illegal)why should we pay ?
Enda kenny should grow a pair and sack Reilly call for an PAC on Wallaces tax affairs.
The Allowances these shower in the Dail get are a disgrace and when Mr European of the year aka Time poster boy gets a big auld pair of kahunas then and only then will I even consider paying.!
End of

Hi Anthony
I acknowledge your right to pay the tax. I dont understand how you believe paying it will bring about more accountability however?
Also, I have an issue with the whole negative equity debate. If you purchased ONE property as your HOME, then its not something you planned to sell. Thus,negative equity is completely irelevant as you are not planning on selling your home and thus current market values have no bearing on your income/outgoings

what planet are you from ???.

Bob its a charge not a tax as yet.So at the moment you are wrong.:-)

From a strict definition point of view, you may be right at the moment. It will be an actuall tax in the future.

Nevertheless, it is a revenue raising exercise so the point about tax/charge is moot.

Morally, you are the same as all other tax evaders. You probably think Mick Wallace is great.

Bob since its not a tax i would be careful if i were you calling people tax evaders at least until the 1st of Janaury.We still have defamation laws.

Norman – tell us more of your knowledge of our defamation laws. Clearly, it is extensive.

Mick Wallace didn’t pay tax on moral grounds. He believed it was for the greater good not to pay so he could keep his business going and keep people employed. Likewise people not paying the household charge are doing so from a moral standpoint.

I’m surprised all the household charge evaders don’t support Wallace in his tax avoidance. Arguably his non-payment was for an equal if not greater cause of keeping people in their jobs.

I don’t need to Bob, a judge can do it for you.:-)

David when the thread is about Mick Wallace i might or might make a comment about him.But since its about the household charge i’ll confine my comments to what i feel is relevent.

Mick Wallace is very relevant. So many people hate on him yet refuse to pay the household charge themselves and claim moral superiority for doing so. It’s blatant hypocrisy.

Good man Bob, sure that 15 year old who stole that chocolate bar from the local shop is also the very same as the guy who killed and hid that young girl in Wales – right!?!? Hhmmm

Norman – up above you were asking others about their legal qualifications – please tell us about yours.

Nigel – tax evasion is tax evasion. The rest of your comment is revolting. Shame on you.

David to me hes not relevent.Just because you say he is doesn’t make it so,but it is an attempt to discredit anyone who feels this charge is unjust.

Baa , get off you knees sheep boy!

Bob i didn’t ask “others”i asked only one who questioned my point about the charge being a charge not a tax.If you need legal advise this would be the last place i would seek it if i were you.

Bob, whats ‘revolting’ about my comment? There was nothing offensive said in anyway. I simply drew a paralel to what you were saying to highlight how ridiculous the point was.
Unfottunately, unlike you, I like to debate the topic rather than the person who posts on the topic.

What’s revolting about your comment is your use of heartbreaking tragedy to make a snide point. There is no stealing a chocolate bar and raping and murdering a small child equivalency.

I suppose you agree with Ming that people who cut turf illegally are the same heroes as those who saved jews from the Holocaust?

Tax evasions is tax evasion. Big and small it all adds up to cuts in services, more on PAYE workers and so on.

In 3 or 4 years you will be liable for the additional years charges and interest on them as well.

Wait… what now?
Really?

Claire, to pay €500 you’d need to own a house worth €200,000 in the current market, and bought before the boom (based on current guesstimates of what the charge will be). Asking people in that sort of financial position, relative to the majority of the country, to pay up a tenner a week doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me.

Also worth highlighting is the recurrent nonsense about “entering into an agreement” to pay a property tax. You’ll be OBLIGED to pay any property tax they see fit to introduce irregardless of whether or not you met your obligations to pay the household charge.

Hand the keys back and rent

“Help our own country” do you mean help our own country pay bond holders in Germany,France & the USA… Go put your head back in the sand!!

Sure, you go and bury “your” €100 deep in sand..

Comeback epic fail!! Trust me fella I pay enough Income tax,Vat,USC,CarbonTax,Road tax, Insurance policy levies, Pension Levies….. not to mention 600€ p.a. property management fee’s as the County Council have refused to do their feckin job & 300€ p.a. For bin collection… Sure what would you know?? It’s obvious you don’t own property or your just a troll!!

hi micko.. just wondering if you will still feel the same when that ?100 becomes ?1000 in the next 2 yrs…
well micko…

Simple question. Where exactly do you live right now? Because if it ain’t Ireland, you don’t have an opinion worth saying. Judging from your Facebook profile, you’re in Canada or thereabouts….

Er, I thought Micko meant paying the charge was equivalent to burying it in the sand? Because that’s the truth. Of course, maybe he didn’t mean that. Plenty of sheep have paid.

Meow !

Ah Eileen…bet you love this one…right up your alley….

Actually Declan , it’s Up Yours !

Your all class Eileen….

Declan
Nothing gets past you . Have a lovely evening .

you look a bit like a young brian cowen.

Depends. There IS a list of areas with such problems that are exempt on that account.

Martin
You still have to register and they will get you for Property Tax next year regardless of your exemption this year . Don’t Register Don’t Pay !

That’s €420 a year. If that’s ‘dirt cheap’ I assume you find the €100 property charge quite reasonable…