Well they won’t take them all to court. After the first few have been found guilty and ordered to pay all court costs and the existing tax the “Can Pay! Won’t Pay” edifice will tumble like a house of cards in a strong breeze.

It’s strange, means testing children’s allowance is not cost effective but taking 100,000 people to court for 100 euro is?!?
@Damocles, that really isn’t my point. The projected costs of such a venture, to spend so much to obtain or save so little has been used recently by our Government as reason not to take action regarding children’s allowance. This same reasoning is now being completely ignored by that same Government. Also no case has yet been won or lost. I would argue our Government is more like a house of cards likely to tumble in a slight breeze you describe.

If the miscreant is required to pay the costs then it doesn’t cost the LGMA anything.

That’s because the letters are sent to different to different groups. Try and switch on!

Mr Dempsey I am jealous of the time you have available on weekdays to spend eight hour watching Council workmen going about their business. I presume you kept up to date with the Journal while you were at.
It doesn’t really matter whether your Local Authority misuses the Household Charge or not it just beehives us as citizens to pay lawfully imposed taxes whatever their destination and purpose. In a brief examination of the data published in the survey above at 10.10 am the results imply that the readership of the Journal are substantially out of kilter with the contributors. What this means is that the largest number of people posting on this subject up to date would appear to be non payers and naysayers yet the survey shows quite a responsibly high level of compliance with the law.

Good Man Reg. always nice to get an objective response to a comment, I am aware the LGMA seem to be targeting certain groups for these quite clearly fictitious letters, my point was do they actually exist, it seems to me that few if anyone has received these so called reminders, let alone ever received an original letter reminding of obligations to pay, also the LGMA seem to do press releases or interviews every other Sunday stating the same thing which by all accounts seems to be complete BS. For the record, I attended a local meeting of house holders in my area, attended by at least 200 people most of whom have not paid the charge, not a single person at the meeting said they received any notification whatsoever, fair enough a small area but I wondered realistically is there any genuine effort on the part of the LGMA to actually enforce or chase this absurd charge.

Mr Collins, there are those of us who are entitled to a day off and rest assured it was not a weekend, I don’t ever recall a council employee working a weekend, O forgive me, god bless them they did, I believe stay open for a brief period during the debacle that was the launch of this House Hold charge, and yes I do keep up to date with the Journal, Kinda thought this was the point of its existence. On the day in question I happened to be tending to my garden whilst observing the council workers digging up my grass verge. I did forget to point out that when I did contact them about the mess they left behind I was informed lack of resources meant it would take time for them to return and re lay the grass verge destroyed which by the way I happily maintained free of charge for 10 years despite it not being technically my property (its called pride). You do indeed raise one interesting point, the validity of this charge which I suspect is dubious at best. Unlike taxes which are clearly defined and deducted this House Hold charge is just that, not a tax in the real sense and therefore your argument does not stand up to scrutiny. I suspect the reason this subject gets a high proportion of responses is because it stirs up just emotions because of its unfairness which even government ministers agree on. Whether you agree of not to this charge and I certainly do not, there remains a substantial amount of those allegedly liable who have not and by all accounts will not pay, God knows how a property tax is ever going to be implemented at this rate not withstanding the fact there will be 10′s of thousands who will not be able to afford anything like the figures being banded about.

There has been no first letter received at my home or my parents home . A “second notice” would probably not be legally applicable in that case . Somebody in property legal area please correct me if im wrong . Are these letters registered or non-existent . Has anybody out there who has not paid received a first letter ??

Sorcha I haven’t received anything at all about the charge. I had to register myself for it online. I will reluctantly pay the charge but only because I have to. Its a tax that other people in the country have already paid, so its not going anywhere. As frustrating as it is, no amount of debate on ‘The Journal’ or marching in the streets will change that now.

It is not a household charge it is a tax on homeowners. The same people that paid stamp duty and every other fook’n bill this poxy country passes on. If it is for local services why should my next door neighbour who rents be exempt? They use the same services, their kids use playgrounds, the street lights etc etc. change who pays and I will have no problem paying.

Mr Muldowney stop being so high and mighty. You are a common tax defaulter by your own admission. Please try and keep up the pretence of respectability by saying nothing while others observe the laws of the Republic.

The only point in running with this item is to allow the usual loonies to sound off about how inequitable the charge is blah blah blah. The majority of eligible households have paid it and that is the only relevant statistic, not some stupid poll.

The €100 million is inconsequential, its only a precursor to a huge property tax on every home. It was never about the €100 payment, it was to sign you up for what’s to come, get you on the database.I cannot believe people actively signed up to pay a tax when there was no database to locate you in the first place.People had the right to remain silent but they gave their details.The bullying worked.If only people had of stuck together and not paid,we could have been united against the bullying and brow beating of our citizens by the government,EU and IMF. We could have stopped this debt collecting by the government on behalf of bondholders and bankers because that’s what it is, its nothing to do with local services.”But its the law!” I hear you say, so is not talking on your mobile while driving but I see thousands flouting that law every day.People pick and choose everyday what they want to obey and not obey.Just cannot understand why people would hand over their hard earned money to this rotten government who have done nothing but break promises since they entered office and have only seen fit to brow beat the people they are meant to be serving.

People who have voted “No but I will”, please don’t. These figures given from the government are not truly indicative in that they include multiple home owners. Don’t forget that they raised €90,000 from just 3 persons.

Less than half of Irish families have paid this unfair tax but more than half holding back on payment. We have a very tough budget coming this Winter. If we back down now this govt will go to town on us. There will be increasing pressure brought to bear on Labour and Fine Gael backbenchers.

This and their latest brainwave of property tax could well be over €100 a month. Where are you going to get €100 extra a month? Wouldn’t that €100 be better spent in your local community to help protect jobs in your local area? Stand firm. Don’t register. Don’t pay.

We’re one of the few economies in the western world who dont pay a property tax.

Thanks to our incompetent, greedy, career politicans auctioning off the family silver for votes we have, effectively, no tax base.

Why is it the Irish people think they can have everything for free? We are as bad as the Greeks. I swear to God if people werent taxed at source no one would pay any tax at all in this country.

The current goivernment are cowards and more of the same career politicans to determined to stay in office at the cost if doing what is necessary. So all we get is half measures and bungling. Theyve made a complete pigs ear of the whole damn thing. The Household Charge – what a joke. Introduce a proper, stable, consistent, sensible property tax across the board immediately. Not this half assed joke of measure.

You get the politicans & government you deserve. Greedy, self serving, naive and incompetent politicans – drawn from a similar public.

Mr Hooligan don’t forget it’s Revenue.ie that will be asking you nicely next year!

And the government have woken up to the fact that a property tax based on one off transactions was incredibly stupid and also unfair. An annual system is fairer.

So i can expect a stamp duty refund since it has been recognised as unfair.

Right, and I’ve already paid my lifetime share of fair property taxes.

Not only through stamp duty. They colluded with builders and banks to drive up property prices. Look at how much money government organizations made from property taxes, both direct and indirect, and you will find an explanation for the lack of regulation.

Edel there’s no jail sentence for not paying…just a fine of two and a half thousand Euro plus costs.
You might just realise that the one hundred quid is good value and do the sensible thing befor it all gets out of hand. Next year that dreaded Household Charge will be gone. The Lefties should love a property tax .

He’s been very busy spending 92000 euros on foreign junkets, so we should probably make allowances for him. Wonder has Reilly paid his bills yet? Maybe Mick Collins could report him too.

What will happen then when for example if you live in 3bed house in an estate in a city or town and have to pay 1,000 and when you live in the country on a acre in a 5 bed self build house paying 500 a year with 20% of the service you get compared to living in a city or town…..people will be moaning then about it even more….”look they in bigger house and paying less I’m not paying”…people will never be happy fact

Alan are ya really really really really telling the truth. You won’t pay? Oh dear …let’s see how brave you are when the guy at your door is a Revenue inspector and wouldn’t it be very funny if all that testosterone guff you throw about results in a fine of two and a half thou and an audit. What did you say was your occupation.?
Grow up.

Mick Collins,is the [Internet policeman]

People who live in council estates pay the council money everyweek and depending on your earnings it can be up to 120 euros per week. So please stop with the council residents bashing.

Not paying the tax is one thing but there’s no call for the punctuation boycott.

And dont forget Alan that Edna has awarded himself a 10000 euro pay rise while Gilmore settled for a meagre 7000 euros. Its good to see dumb and dumber are shouldering their fair share of the pain.

So there’s no fire service in your area? No recycling facilities? No parks and leisure facilities that you can avail of from time to time? No libraries? Then what about the housing grants that help old people put a new roof on their houses? Council funds pay for all these kind of thins but I’m alright jack because I don’t get anything.

Yes county councils need to more efficient and are need in serious reform but all these things need to be paid for. Income tax doesn’t cover all the money that is spent, the tax base has to widen. Nobody likes paying more tax.

Paul – based on your first reason you should look into ways to evade VAT too.

“Income tax doesn’t cover all the money that is spent”

Yep, that’s the real issue isn’t it. Somehow the 39 BILLION euros that is raised in income tax is not enough to pay for decent services on this small island with a very small population.

Nora they are sending out the letters in batches where they can identify who owns what. They seem to be targeting landlords at the moment. I don’t know how much it is costing to collect but non compliance will be adding to the cost. Council are notoriously useless at collecting money. Just look at the Dublin City Council household domestic waste changeover debacle. I got a bill for Q4 2011 in June 2012. Many people still haven’t paid their outstanding dues due to poor follow up. The decision by the government to hand this to the revenue, who, by and large are very good at collecting taxes was a sensible decision. The lottery is optional!

It will be interesting to see how revenue will be able to determine who in fact owns property, just because you pay tax, does not mean you own property. If revenues database is anything like the LGMA’s or for that matter local councils database we can be sure of one thing, further farce. (and yes, we have heard the Mortgage interest relief argument time and time again, not everyone who owns property is in receipt of same). Just popped out to purchase some kerosene lamps and extra candles, that buffoon head of the LGMA made a further tit of himself on lunchtime on Newstalk, apparently he now believes street lights et al will have to be switched off because naughty house holders are not paying up, what a complete G*******, its this kind of nonsensical scare mongering that really encourages compliance.

It may take some effort to establish the owners of all the properties in the country but it’s not impossible. The fact that there isn’t a comprehensive database is an indication of the mickey mouse way this country has been run for years. The fact that the revenue will be able to cross reference those in receipt of mortgage interest relief will certainly help as will cross checking with service providers and The Land Registry.

Agreed Reg, but I fail to see funding Mickey Mouse more lavishly will lead to an improvement.

Taxation in Ireland is incredibly progressive. People on high earning pay way more tax… I don’t know why anyone should have to say sorry to you for being succesful in life, for working hard , for making sacrafises when they needed to be made in order to get on!!!!!The people you are so found on condeming are the ones who pay the vast majority of tax in this country….they are also the ones who create the jobs and spend their money in the domestic economy….
The other cohort you seem so keen to defend are the ones that pay virtually nothing….clog up our social welfare system and our hospitals etc. etc…

There’s also a fine of two and a half thousand Euro for those found guilty. Add that to the costs being awarded against the law breakers and I would suggest a stampede to pay after the first two or three cases. These pages will be mighty entertainment when this happens………….soon!

Heard it too, laughable. Theres another 10 million quid being handed to unsecured bondholders in a couple of days. Use that for he parks. Theres also a BILLION being handed over by AIB which we own to unguaranteed gamblers on the 1st of october, or 5 years of the household charge.

They have no moral authority to demand money from us for this unjust charge.

OUR INCOME TAX pays for street lights!!!!!!!

Thanks fella i for one appreciate that.

Me too ;o)

Medical card holders are not exempt…

Aln,
You don’t need CAB just call up social welfare and report them. You obviously have lots of info which will give them a head start in their investigation.

Aln you are some plonk you can not see what is gone on the money they are after is not for service to local att”"it is for bond holders and they are paying it to them Gamblers who lost. 500,000000 last month the month before and next month 1 billon that is why they want the money if you lose in a betting office you do not get it back or in any walk of life how ye can not see this ??????

When Revenue are in charge of collecting the Property Tax I’m sure they will do what they do best in respect of trawling through issues just as you’ve described and also collaborate with CAB. It would be about time in this dishonest little Nation.

Collaborate with CAB?? LOL!!

Cheers for showing us that you have absolutely NO idea what you’re talking about

@ Mick Internet policeman Collins
You chat some shite !!!!

It’s those who haven’t paid who should be ashamed. It’s the vulnerable who suffer when people stop paying taxes. Just look at Greece.

It’s the government that should be ashamed David. Trying to implement a unjust immoral tax that takes no account on house size, household income and location.

do you own a house David

David, many people who haven’t paid the tax have donated the money to charities instead instead. the government are going to do any good with it.

@ David : I actually, genuinely feel sorry for you.A staunch Catholic,Fine Gael supporter,who is so brainwashed it makes you talk out of your backside.

So John you admit that most people CAN afford to pay this tax but are refusing to.

I commend anyone who donates to charity but it’s no excuse for not paying your taxes.

You just don’t get it David, do you?

Brian I paid. I have always paid. I wasn’t one of the eight hundred thousand cheats and thieves who had bogus non resident bank accounts and I’m not one of the eight or nine hundred thousand whingers and sponger who fall for the Shinners rhetoric until the Revenue man comes knockin on your door. You ask me to grow a pair at the same time as you admit to law breaking when the country is on its knees.
You are a degenerate and your IP address has just been forwarded to Revenue.ie.
Now I think my pair have become a little swollen.

uh David Higgins, vomit! your just a puppet face for a puppet party who’s running the Government.
shame should be on the governments before and present!
I have no shame, just disgust for our Government.

Yes there are some who can afford and choose not too as a form of protest for what the government have and are continuing to do. Now, do you own a hous? how much tax do you pay on your wages, you being a student I’d say not much? what country do you think you might get a job in after you studies?? and do you really think vulnerable people will get anything out of the money collected from a property tax?????

Mick Collins

you are an obnoxious individual. I have come across some nasty people in my life but you have take nastiness to a whole new level. You paid the charge because you dont have the balls to stand up for yourself and say enough is enough. I wouldnt wish bad luck on anyone, but for you I am willing to make an exception and I hope you get bad luck by the bucket load and that life throws a great big spanner at you.

Mick Collins: you’re an insult to that name.

I suppose all the gallant non-payers will be out salting their local roads and fixing water bursts this winter when the councils run out of money for such niceties. Cant see the likes of eirigi arranging work parties for real work.
Don’t like the tax, its another unfair burden but at the end of the day it still has to be paid.

Yes and Oliver Wendell Holmes also said “I won’t accept anything less than the best a player’s capable of doing… and he has the right to expect the best that I can do for him and the team! “ The taxes imposed on us at the moment are not for the benefit of the people of this country but for the benefit of the few. Our hospitals, schools, roads housing and the poor have been sidelined so that bond “investors” can be repaid from the public purse as a reward for reckless investment in private institutions. Is this the “best” we can accept from our team and begrudgingly pay our taxes? These are not the actions of a civilized society. I have no problem with paying my taxes when they are used for the purpose intended. Currently one in five children live on or below the poverty line in this country, the largest children’s charity in the country has to close for a week. We do not live in a civilized society, I will not pay.

Well said Glyn..

“The great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving.”, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr

That’s the point Glyn, it’s where is this country going and how do we get there? I can completely see how some people feel this tax is unfair and even anti-social, and there are good points made. In my opinion these are the actions of a civilised society, to take the hard and the very hard decisions together. We live in democracy of sorts and the people through their representatives have spoken, and that’s why I paid because nobody gets to pick and choose what they are willing to pay for. This tax will only be revoked through political will mainly through the fear of TDs not being reelected, cynical but probably true.

Ok we’ve been paying taxes for quite a while now, are we in sight of a civilized society yet?

Hmm, too much tax and you become uncivilised.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, what kind of loonies are on here? If the best anyone can offer in protest, is commentary and bull. Then the Country is screwed, fighting Irish my Arse? You never beat the Irish, they are kicking the stuffing out of us and this is the best all of you can do! Pathetic Irish!

I think the term “Fighting Irish” really refers to our liking for fighting each other.

Divide and Conquer.

Two wrongs don’t make a right Stephen? What did I say that was wrong?
I will agree that the fight has gone out of the majority of our people. But not all.

Amen brother.

I believe a lot of people have excused themselves from being “in it” cos it’s just not fair!

Even thats a cop-out for me….I was 1 of the cowards who emigrated. Msg me when its cool pls :)

Ann I would like to point out that I have never reported anyone to the Authorities but I do admit to forwarding boastful Postings on this site where contributors exulted in telling us they were law breaking. Are you trying to tell me that I was or wasn’t doing my civic duty?

I think you might be hammering water with that one there Damocles, a whole lot of effort for very little reward

It’s just C&P it takes seconds.

http://damoclesbda.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/household-charge-groundhog-day/

Why should people cut out things to pay the bond holders? Not all laws are just. Racism, execution and homophobia were once laws, would people be such sheep to accept them again because Kenny and co. say so? Why should people pay for gamblers who lost? You don’t see the poor addicts sat in Paddy Powers getting offered they’re money back.

They lied from day one of this and they don’t deserve to hold office.

Yes Bryan, because paying €100 is the same as Racism, Execution and Homophobia.

Hey, Bryan, next time I need someone to blast off a series of disjointed sound bites you’re my man, ok?

I’ll break it down for you! “Not all laws are just”, (Laws regarding homophobia and execution have been introduced back into societies around the world), are we never to question what leaders write into law?

@ Rob

These laws were changed that’s what happens in a representative democracy. We elect people to represent us, to pass laws, to spend our contributions and oh yes to collect taxes. If you don’t like the way it’s turned out then elect different people to represent you.

Plenty of great laws about to obey……..”the law of the land” blah blah

we must obey “the law of the land”

by the way, I think Ghandi had something to say about unjust laws and all no?

Ghandi and MLK had specific criteria they met before choosing to ignore the law. None of these have been met for the household charge. Both would pay it if they were alive today.

Ahem:

MLK:
“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law”

Fail.

Oh, and don’t try to speak on Ghandis behalf. The man was the polar opposite of the self serving greed and dishonesty your party stands for.

Ah right David, so the bit that suits you is accurate and the bit that doesn’t isn’t. You’re with the right crew alright! LOL

You need to adjust for the fact that the polling sample is massively skewed in favour of those who don’t want to pay. This is clear from the massive left-wing and Sinn Féin support seen on previous polls on this site.

There’s no need to adjust for the “haven’t paid yet” group because there’s no evidence to suggest that this group rises or falls based on political views. If anything I should increase its share but I wouldn’t want to rub it in that the game is up for the Household Charge campaign ;)

Its not about politics or affiliations david, its about right and wrong. You wouldn’t understand.

Ah David, don’t you know this is actually a blue shirt site?

What’s right is always worth fighting for. The household charge is wrong, plain and simple.
Why should you pay for something that you already own?

PRISON for not paying such an UNFAIR tax is government DICTATORSHIP.IRELAND WAKE UP STOP PAYING AND TAKE UP THE STREETS LIKE THE SPANISH AND GREEKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!