any reference to the Nazis with regard to the situation in Palestine is fraught with all sorts of pitfalls, so i think comparisons drawn between Zionists and Nazis (while easy to make) are REALLY unhelpful.
It just gets their backs up, and does more harm than good.
reasoned historical and legal argument, and protest are the only real routes open to people “over here”, while resistance to occupation is the right and the duty of every Palestinian “over there”.
of course, that makes me anti-semitic in the eyes of those who refuse to accept the fact that the semitic people (the people of Shem) comprise both the hebrews and the Philistines who both lived relatively peacefully together in the area of old Palestine from biblical times until 1948.
it doesn’t for a minute take into account the vile doctrine of Zionism developed in Europe in the late 19th century and carried through to the twentieth on a wave of European nationalism that said that Palestine was unoccupied as Palestinians did not exist!!!!
i’m sorry to go on, and i could further, but i am SICK, SORE AND TIRED of hearing the Zionist slant on reality on the media as expounded by the likes of charlatans like Alan Derschowitz et al.
the “record” needs correction by way of facts

Cyril. I don’t really think this has anything to do with religion at all. I think it’s about justice.

It has everything to do with religion Reada. Why is every Islamic State with the exception to Turkey despotic? It is about religious gullibility and exploitation of it. Why isn’t Sweden or Netherlands not torn apart? Why has Ireland, Italy Spain and Portugal a defunct political system? As a culture we all follow leaders and don’t think for ourselves. This is systemic in Catholic cultures but is extreme in Islamic culture. The reason why Turkey is democratic to some degree is that Ataturk drove out the Islamic clerics and constantly preached the importance of education and secular values. Now with his demise rampant Islam is on the ascendancy again in Turkey. While I don’t subscribe to Marxism the opium of the people analogy is an apt description. Just as every culture uses some form of recreational drug they also have cultural delusion that is retarding social progress. I’m not for one second suggesting banning religion but when it leaves the churches and becomes pseudo intellectual or political it is time to stand up to it.

I always have to laugh at westerners commenting of the despotism in islamic states but conveniently ignoring the role western cash, weaponry and influence plays in proping up those very same despots. If you want the truth about why most islamic states are controlled by despots cyril, you should take a look at the value of whats underneath them instead of ignorant remarks about the religion of their population.

True left of course its all the wests fault. The ordinary citizen were always so sceptical of their foreign appointed leaders. Regular open meetings are held in daylight and on the media there where the Atheist association of Saudi Arabia openly blog about secular governance. If we look at the fact that the Muslim population is only a fraction of the Jewish population and yet year after year Muslim scientists punch above their weight in terms of Nobel science prize winners. The west is known for its inhumane treatment of women and the dirty yanks are preaching sexual inequality on an ever enlightened Islamic population. By now I hope you realise I’m being highly sarcastic. I’m not ignorant of US oil interests in some of these States but if you think Islam has nothing to do with the ills of this region you probably should stop reading the handbook of Al Qaeda propaganda you seem to be browsing.

Fair play to ya cyril, you never let the facts get in the way of a good diversionary ‘quick look over there’ rant. Now would you like to explain to us what despotism in islamic states has to do with prisoners being held without charge in the secular democratic state of Israel?

It has everything to do with perpetuating this cycle of violence. I’m no fan of US foreign policy in general but to blame the psychotic rage of Israels neighbours on this is part of the problem. If anything the US only exploited this to have some degree of stable oil trading and not stealing it. But back to your point a country like Israel whose neighbours are in the stone age banding together in a religious crusade is going to influence how the Israeli people vote and react. This constant threat of being under attack triggers a defensive mode. I don’t agree with many things the Israeli or US govt have done there but they would bring about peace were it not for the delusional rage of its neighbours that is making peace impossible. I went to Israel thinking the Jewish side would be as intransigent as their enemy. Having been there I know the vast majority are secular sensible people. The country is far from ideal having a religious bias but to equate Israelis as being anyway as irrational as their neighbours is not seeing clearly. I had been to Egypt in 1998 and they did revere their president they shouted anti Israeli sentiment everywhere. One even blamed the fact I didn’t trust the drinking water on the Israelis. This type of mentality makes violence inevitable and the Israelis will come out on top.

So it’s fine to hold them without charge? Did you also support the internment of Catholics up north or is it just the muslims who should be denied human rights?

Take the example of murder you have the option of investing your energy in one. The first example is where someone gets indiscriminately murdered on the street. The second case is where after repeated burglaries a home owner gets frustrated and shoots the burglar several times in the back. Neither can be condoned but I will invest more effort into the killing of an innocent man. The plight of women and academics in Muslim countries is more of a human rights issue than the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. They imprison their people for blasphemy. Fix the greater problem in the middle east and the Israeli issue will eventually resolve itself.

Ah yes, more ‘look over there’ tactics. Unfortunately for you the article above deals with people in israeli jails and how they are being denied basic human rights. Would you mind clarifying for us please whether you support internment in general, such as the catholics up north suffered when they had their hunger strike, or is it just the internment of muslims you support?

You want a simple answer no I dont support internment. But your inability to see the root of this problem will ensure it continues for a long time to come. Israel have often not done themselves any favours but they are nobel peace prize worthy when compared with their neighbours.
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Ah, fair enough, so you don’t support internment but just decided to turn an article on prisoners hungerstriking mainly due to internment by israel into an attack on islam and islamic states. Seems like a ‘look over there’ thing to me.

Cyril. I know you want to rid the world of religion but I think you’re way off track from the emails I’m getting. This is a human rights issue and no time soon could you put Israel and peace prize in the same sentence. They behave shamefully. I know they were an injured people but they’ve taken the concept of lashing out to new levels. Leave it Cyril. Save it for a more appropriate thread!

Lets just say Israel do all the things you ask for lift the blockade etc? Do you think we will get peace there? Portraying a country as a bogeyman when it is besieged will not make the Irish far left honest peacemakers that is why I wrote. The anti Israeli middle east are not honest peace makers maybe through no fault of their own being indoctrinated with fanatical religious belief that compels them to seek the destruction of their neighbour and elect their leaders on this mandate. I wrote because some people see Palestinians as being somehow innocent of any wrongdoing.

I wrote because the atrocities committed by Israels neighbours are much worse but yet some Irish people seek solidarity with this movement.

I wrote because some people will use it this article to promote an anti Israeli bias. I wrote to make it clear that I believe the Arab world and Islamic delusion are the main propagators of this war. Finally I am not unconditionally pro Israel.

Reada if this is not about religion why do Muslims of every culture seek the destruction of Israel? Why do Persian Iranian Muslims, Egyptian Arab Muslims and Somalian African Muslims all rally to the Palestinian cause? The last time this happened in Europe was the religious wars of the Tudor dynasty. It is both religious and medieval and society needs to deal with this.

For me, Cyril, it just brought back the awful sadness I felt as a girl when we had our own hunger strikes here. As I said earlier I think that to deny yourself such a human urge to eat when hungry must be very difficult. But the human need for justice and fairness is very strong too. Some of these prisoners haven’t even been charged with anything.

I’m not going into the rights and wrongs of war on this thread. It’s about a hunger strike for me. You know I don’t rate Islam as a religion I’d like to join. As an outspoken independent-minded Irish woman I don’t think they’ll come recruiting me either. It would be a major coup for them tho! ;)

That we can agree on Reada the place is a mess. I was there in 2010. The religious quarters made me sick what it had reduced people to. No winners.

Cyril, i hate that expression “I’d die for such and such. . . . . . “.
if you translate it into REAL english, it all-too-often means “I’ll KILL for such and such………….”
so, i reckon we’re both on the same page re:killimg people (i.e. if you’re walkin around with an AK47, you’re a target!).
However, would you not agree that a guy walking around with a machine gun in an area of land that does NOT belong to him according to international law should be resisted with any means at the disposal of the population that that person has starved , imprisoned and oppressed over 60 years?

Stephen I believe Israel has a right to invade and control lands not belonging to them if such a place is being used as sites invade Israel. The Golan heights was a strategic site for the invasion of Israel by Syria and the west bank is a site for the launching of rockets on Israeli civilians. I don’t have an issue with Israel seizing these areas and keeping them under their control until a full settlement is agreed if it ever is. I do have issue with some of the Israeli responses to hamas rockets etc and am in no way an unconditional supporter of Israel but I believe without a shadow of a doubt that Israel would withdraw tomorrow if a peace agreement could be formed. The Islamic world is not yet ready to recognise the right of Israel to exist. Israels response while not always justified is symptomatic of this.