Well said Little Jim!! Lovely people here is one of the reasons I am still living and contributing in Ireland!

Here here! And the craic is awesome!

I feel the multicultural love here, sure the craic unites us ;)

I got onto the 37 bus last week and heard a young Asian child speak in 3 different languages including Irish, wanted to clap I was so impressed.

I don’t want to seem unkind but if they feel very very strongly could they not return to their country of origin?

They toook ‘r jobs!

Little Jim. You are actually proud of holding to a moribund and backward insular (natives’) mindset . By proclaiming : “its just the way we are” – only goes to show that you’ll never change your limited outlook on life – even when held upside down over a crocodile’s pit.

No one took your jobs. Because the jobs didn’t belong to you in the beginning.

@marlon

Easy tiger !

I don’t want to be rude in reply but please don’t make statements like that

Little Red Thumb Boy… I don’t take your comment as being rude. However, when people imply that the jobs in Ireland belong to the Irish….. Or outsiders and Blow Ins are taking Irish jobs…. How should one reply?

Django, I am very proud to be part of this little island nation.
There’s a strong sense of “us” here that you won’t get anywhere else. That does make it tough to integrate into but it’s worth it. People like it here because we are the way we are.
Stand up and be proud brother.
Big hug for you!

@marlon

Perhaps you should think about the generousity of this country for allowing foreigners in here to work in the first place.
Try entering the US or Australia and see the difference.

I don’t apologise to you or anyone from abroad who has come to live here.

We Irish built this Nation.

We were here when the interest rates were 15% and there were almost 300,000 unemployed and the standard of living was bad.

We were here when few even knew we existed as a nation and certainly didn’t want to come and live here.

We built this country that it was desirable to foreigners to come here to earn money or to get welfare or both.

Ireland didn’t ask anyone from abroad to come and help and Ireland has no obligation to thank any ‘Johnny come lately’ from abroad who came here to make money.

So Marlon if you are a guest in this country, then I would be saying less not more

Little Red Thumb Boy… Do me a favour and sit on your thumb! You are talking pants. Yes … I am a guest 8n this country wbo pay my way and pay taxes. You speak as if the Irish have never moved else where. There are thousands of Irish living in America illegally, all the while Irish politicians lobby the US Government them citizenship. Is that fair?

It sounds like you never moved off this island. And if you did… You had a bad experience. Whatever the case, hope you find happiness.

Sorry little red thumb bit where do the billions of euro in aid from the EU factor into the pat-ourselves-on-the-back attitude there? F*cking idiot

no one took the irish people their jobs.. evryone here can get a job.. its either laziness or professional background or hard work that determines wether you get a job or not… rather than complaining.. do something about it.. employers dont just hire for the sake of hiring.. ive been here for 9 yrs nearly and i dont have a part time job while studyin.. so wat u on about??

PS: i love irish people and the craic… i have great irish friends who just dont think that way..

What cracks me up about a lot of these new citizens is that they never seem happy, having left places where they did not wish to live in for whatever reason they are happy to come to ireland and when they have their foot in the door start to whinge and complain , what Ireland offers in many ways is far superior to what is on offer to immigrants in many other european countries, would we be made feel so welcom in Nigeria for example I think not , stop crying and looking for attention and as always you have the option to go elsewere

Buyintialy…. Though I “generally” love everything Irish… I think everyone who relocates to a new location suffers from some type of culture shock. For some with strong ties at home often find difficulty adapting to the new location (food, language, familiarization with culture and systems). I believe the whinging that you speak of isn’t necessarily meant to inflame, but a coping mechanism…. A way with trying to understand what they know to what is new.

When I lived in Boston , I had Irish friends in Dorchester and Southie who often had family members from Ireland trying to make a go of it in America (both legal and illegal). Watched the newcomers evolution of attitude change from excitement to lethargic in energy as they became more and more home sick. As this happened… They whinged more and more.

But then again…. Give me a Irish person that doesn’t whinge

LOL

80% working and still not happy to be precise Maryln there is a big difference between being homesick and being a professional moaner , the word ungrateful also comes to mind as stated before if as the article states that most are university educated people then one would assume a certain level of intelligence which seems to be lacking in a lot of the people, lets face the facts here if you are not happy wher you live you move simple as that maybe just some of these intellectual types feel ireland owes them somthing lol

Is the “Glass half full, or half empty”…. It’s how folks decide to look at things. I’m a Glass Half Full type of guy… However, not everyone has my outlook. I’m sure the folks that you speak of ar not truly ungratefull. Maybe the stress, frustration and confusion makes it difficult for them to actually see how fortunate they are?

And not to mention our drinking culture….

Head. Nail. Well said.

I am originally from England myself, having lived here 13 years now. If you ask anyone, i’m Irish. I love living here

I don’t think integration means having no friends from your country of origin. It’s more about attitudes! Plenty of Irish are well integrated in the US or Australia, and they still have Irish friends or frequent Irish venues, they just don’t isolate themselves from the local community. Others live between their pub and GAA games and shun the outside world. Same thing with the Polish here, some of them have diverse friends and experiences, others live inside their own circle.

How do you know that they are included in that number?

@alex,your wrong I’m afraid if you were correct the 20%would he a lot higher as in 60% ish

You’re not a mathematician, are you realist?

@Belly Up, how do I know? – I’ve just looked around to foreign people who I know personally. A lot of them. And second reason – it is not possible to get Irish citizenship if one’s is on the dole: you have to be employed of self-sufficient. And yes, you do not have to be working, which is not the same as being unemployed.

Oh right you’ve personally done your own research work on this?? Sit back down

Have the French stopped being French, the Germans stopped being German…etc etc etc. A needless fear and one within our powers to prevent.

It’s a fact of life that different nationalities don’t mix, NOT all of the time, but most of the time. When you have a large community, say for example, the Islamic community in Ireland, they are pleasant to interact with in shops, as neighbours etc., but they are quite happy to continue outside of that realm in practising their faith and culture together, without us Irish, in the same way Irish people in Saudi Arabia will secretly attempt home-brewing and have their fellow Irishmen around in the dark of night to risk alcohol-poisoning. A lot of cultures are quite similar, the Irish can slot easily into society anywhere in the UK, not so much Germany, Scandinavian countries, go further afield to Russia and Japan and it’s a totally different culture and very hard to adapt to, and so it is true of the reverse. All cultures should be celebrated, put let’s not force people to do things that are unnatural to their very being, it’s patronising and false.

Neither France, nor Germany are small island nations.

Michael — We have boats and planes so being an island isn’t that much of a big deal culturally, and hasn’t been for a long time.

” I now fear a total erosion of our own unique culture within a short few decades.”

Culture is a fluid thing; it is always changing. But you seem to think there’ll be some kind of sudden rupture. What do you think will be eroded? The language? The music? Will they come for our bacon and cabbage? Please be more specific.

Keeping ones culture takes work. Just like speaking Irish fluently. The said erosion of the Irish culture has nothing to do with poltics or laws. It is related to individual people taking pride in themselves without targeting others in a negative manner.

No, they are not. Which means they are even more open to the outside world, not less.

Which part of our culture Michael? Irish people ( and new Irish people ) are totally in control of how we retain our culture. If it is being eroded it is because of the dominance of US culture, not because of a Russian lady teaching her Irish friends how to cook borscht.

If you are worried about it, then learn to play the fiddle, invest in some Irish language lessons, coach the local hurling team and produce some Celtic influenced art. I often find that the people who are worried about our culture being eroded by foreigners are the same lads who will begrudge any centralised efforts to support it (I’m not saying that this is the case with you, but it is something I have noticed.

Fair play Dennis! I’m sure your opinion is that of the majority.

Sorry for late reply but only checked back in now. Firstly, Fear is personal, and nobody can tell me what I should and should not fear. Secondly, I do speak Irish and partake in cross-cultural activites. Thirdly, This is Ireland, and Irish Culture should be paramount. Finally, any contrary comments to my own above were based on my “fear” factor, but never acknowledged the vast majority of my comment which related to the fact we have been exceptional in our efforts to integrate non irish people into our communities in a very short period of time.

They took jobs that the Irish wouldn’t take! Fact! Same old drivel all the time, I’ve just given a job to a wonderful hardworking polish woman because I was told by my Irish citizens that it wasn’t worth their while. Nice to have a choice whether you work or not. This polish lady has 3 jobs! Paying tax on all 3. She’s contributing to this country so she’s welcome here for as long as she wants.

yes , you fail to understand that many immigrants coming here “apartment share” in groups , as such they dont have financial pressures such as mortgages to pay , kids to feed etc , therefore they are in a position to take up low paid jobs , if the irish person takes up the job they will not be able to pay their mortgage , bring their kids to the doctor , pay their bills , put food on the table etc for the kind of money they are being offered.

as for the paying of tax argument , well it would be an Irish persons tax if the irish person was given the job in the first place , you know tax will be paid regardless of who is in the job so i dont know why you even mentioned it really

She has a husband ( who works) and she has a mortgage!!! That’s why she has 3 jobs!! Would you prefer she and her husband not work and live off the welfare system? Or work and pay taxes ?? Reality check freebie!!

And if you don’t know why I mentioned her paying tax then your more stupid than I thought! With her and thousands like her paying tax we wouldn’t have a welfare system to support those who NEED it. Where do you think your welfare comes from??? Fairies or leprechauns perhaps?

so she has 3 jobs , she is taking 2 other jobs that could be made available to an unemployed Irish person ??

oh and by the way I’m not on the dole , you made a sweeping comment about where I think my social welfare comes from.

One should never run at the first form of adversity. Taking the time to understand adversity brings communities together.

They want to contribute to their new society, and hopefully feel more integrated as time goes by?

I’m curious…. What are your ways?

@tax slave. I’m Australian and have been living here for nearly 8 years (and contrary to what most people assume my parents and grandparents are *not* Irish). I whole heartedly agree with your ‘when in Rome’ point I think you can open your mind a little.

As an Australian I didn’t expect there would be any sort of cultural shift for me. There was one, and I’m still learning. As an example, Irish people ask a lot of questions when they meet someone new (where are you from, how long have you been here, how long do you plan to stay, where do you live, where do you work). I actually asked someone once if they were under cover from the GNIB checking up on me the questions were so personal (it was a joke to try to change the subject because I was getting uncomfortable). While I don’t advocate Irish people should change to suit people who move here, some understanding that someone who is still learning what is ‘normal’ might get a wrong impression. I know I said I was joking re the GNIB thing – but imagine what that could be like to people from some cultures.

As another example, I’ve been told loads how ‘brash’ Australians are. I agree this is true, but some things Irish consider to be brash, I consider to be perfectly normal. I’m stil learning things that I consider normal that the Irish consider brash (occasionally rude). I learn by making mistakes and reading people’s reactions, and at times I had to be told things weren’t acceptable. Its been an interesting experience learning all of that, but people’s willingness to let me make mistakes helped. Again, if people are from cultures with stronger differences who aren’t able to read the reactions to things they say and do, or don’t have people telling them ‘that’s not how it works here’ how are they supposed to intergrate.

I reiterate, I whole heartedly agree with the when in Rome aspect – but before say ‘a lot of them don’t want to change’ try to understand that its not always that obvious.

and I second Marlon’s question of ‘what are your ways’

I dont think anyone is resentful , they are just concerned about the pressure all this immigration is having on social welfare lists , housing lists, hospital lists , jobs lists etc etc , nobody is coming out of a closet or any sort of storage area , basically people are worried and have every right to be especially seeing as we dont have the authority to control our borders and the country is descending into chaos.

o right I stand corrected than. its not what it looks like at all,its just the newcomers are responsible for putting unnecessary pressure on frontline social services and damn it “they are taking our jobs” ” they’re taking our jobs” any similarity to past depression/ recessions are totally coincidental no more to see here folks.
I mean I can remember when frontline social services worked perfectly and when the undiluted Irish culture rained supreme. we all happily spoke fluent irish and ate our spuds cause they’re lovely and irish…. The guy next to you didn’t create this mess and its in the interests of those who did that you tear the other guy to shreds, try being angry at the right people.

yes irish people emigrate , but why are they emigrating in the first place , because much of the jobs have been filled with foreign labour and because of this even the jobs that are available have too low a salary to keep a mortgage going and food on the table , also why should immigration policy be determined on the basis some that irish people emigrate ? to do this would be to punish the people who dont emigrate .

Freebies, you are missing the point. If you expect to live in another country and be accepted, as Irish do, you’ve got to accept others coming to live in Ireland. It’s a reciprocal expectation.

hold on a minute , people who come here are accepted , what people are saying is we need immigration control to keep jobs open to native irish people so they wont have to leave their family and friends for a foreign land. As members of the EU , we do not have the authority to control our borders and thus result in more Irish people emigrating

You dont have to be of native blood to feel integrated somewhere! Ever emigrated yourself?

I was born and raised in the states for the first 10 years of my life. Been in Ireland now for the past 14 years. Anyone who says Im not irish will get a kick up the arse.

You have to make an effort to intergate as well.

The title of the article is actually misleading. It says “Most of Ireland’s new citizens do not feel part of society” while inside it is actually “more than half of Ireland’s new citizens believe their new status has not lead to greater integration.”

It may just as well mean that they have felt integrated already and their new status did not change it. It doesn’t mean that they don’t feel part of society at all.

I am surprised to see such misrepresentation to gain clicks in The Journal. Sounds like the Indo.

You’re not Irish

we are left with our own dross..

So I’ve noticed.

Lots of emotive words there like “unprecedented”. It doesnt really stack up though, does it. Vast majority here still ethically Irish…

Ethically Irish?

Brown envelopes are ok if you don’t get caught?

Sorry Damocles, I meant Ethically.

Oh god. Ethnically even. Damn iphone and fat fingers.

Yeah, I knew what you meant, I just liked the phrase.

Little red thumb boy…. What in the name of jaysus are u sh1ting on about…?

@Dave
More than 10% of our population were born outside Ireland ! 10%

Therefore the ethnically non-irish element of our population will inevitabley grow as they have children.

I think thats worrying for our ethnicity and our cultural integrity.

Have a look at Britain, Germany and France and see the effect on the indigenous population

@EP
Comments need to be read and understood in order to make a considered comment on them.

I can’t be responsible for your inability to read and comprehend beyond the first paragraph. Perhaps you have been reading the Star too long and gotten used to that journalistic style.

I’ve lived in each of those countries except Germany, but have spent lots of time there. The english, french and germans are all still there.

@dave
Sorry, I don’t understand your point

See Alex’s comment below ?

@daniel his comment is of no use.
The 20% not working are unemployed,if the stats were don’t the way you think the 20% would be a lot higher

The 20% not working is likely to include housewives etc. It’s not necessarily people on the dole.

It doesn’t mention it here but only 205 people were surveyed. It always doesn’t mention that out of the 80 odd percent with a third level education, that 30% of them have masters and a further 8% have phds. Considering all this I would be confident in saying that the 20% unemployed is kids, housewife’s, etc

@daniel,you might be confident but your wrong the figures relate to those able to work not students children etc..

Provide a source please

@daniel,and your source?

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0116/1224328903500.html

That article specifically relates to those eligible to work and unforced my point

No it doesn’t. Where? I’m still waiting on your reference

Realist has been rumbled.

This article is talking about those that have become citizens, not foreign nationals in general. To be eligible for citizenship they have to be here for 5 years (some differences depending on the nature of application). You also have to be employed or self sufficient to receive citizenship, so even if the 20% not working are currently on the dole, its not necessarily the case (or even likely) they have been for their entire time in Ireland.

The link from CSO shows statistics based on number of PPSN issued to foreign nationals each year 2004-2009 and PAYE activity / Social Welfare claims. (http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/current/ppsn.pdf).

Table 3b, shows SW claims by % for each year. Of all foreign nationals 62% who first registered in 2004 had NEVER made a SW claim by 2009 (noting that a SW claims include one of claims like dental, and long term claims like illness and pension payments (see page 16), and child benefit (see page 2) as well as job seekers). Those that registered in 2009, all groups show high 80s – low 90s% have never made a SW claim (with the exception of UK at 79%).

These numbers are based on nationality at arrival, and does not reflect who became citizens. When looking at the numbers you should also acknowledge that there is no indication on the nature of Social Welfare claimed or for how long (e.g. someone who arrived in 2004 was as vulnerable as everyone else to increased unemployment starting in 2008).

Also 14% not having third level education does not mean they dropped out. They may have never had the opportunity to get one, or be the partner or child of someone who came with a 3rd (or higher) level education.

Im literally in the middle of absolutely nowhere,there is 1 pub,its an Irish bar and run by a guy from Mayo

And how often do we all complain about Ireland? Perhaps we should all f*** off too.

Exactly, Dave.

These people are citizens just like you Jonathan. So if you don’t like that….

yeah, because you’ll NEVER hear an Irish person say anything negative about Ireland. Never ever.

You haven’t really grasped the concept of marketing and self promotion of a business too well, have you?

yes & no , It depends on what way you look at it , you’d be surprised at the number of people who share my views

Actually no I wouldn’t but thank goodness I’m not one of them.

I love the way this racist is hiding behind a company

I am not racist , just because I want to live in the type of society that was passed down through generations of our ancestor as opposed to a USA multi ethnic society , it does not make me racist , a conservationist yes , but racist definitely not , I’d have no problem sitting down to dinner with any foreign national regardless of colour or religion , it has nothing to do with that for me.

Well, I do. And I really couldnt care less what the embittered lot up above think either. A good aul spell of living abroad might sort out their rather insular attitudes. I never lost my culture or identity living abroad and will certainly not lose it due to anyone moving here.

I’m happy to have decent people living in this society, regardless of where they are from.

“A good aul spell of living abroad might sort out their rather insular attitudes”

Well said.

It would be interesting how these same people view the current loyalist outbursts about “loss of their culture”. Here’s an idea for them: you have NO faith in your culture if you honestly believe it cant stand up to living alongside another culture.

I have a little bit more faith in us and our ways than that.

Or shift workers, stay-at-home parents (maybe one who doesn’t have work permit but wife is a nurse) … And if non-EU students, they’re being rode for fees

Great story bro, you really contribute to the discussion. Obviously you aren’t working either? But of course you feel entitled not to.

I would l love to get Irish citizenship, I already feel Irish (as well as Polish) and an Irish passport would be handy as well as an opportunity to vote. Eligible for it and all. Unfortunately there is a ?950 fee. I’ll dream on.

ah sure , everyone is a racist when you dont like what they have to say , Actually I’m a reasonable person and I dont mind a small number of immigrants , but the situation since Maastricht leaves us with no authority to control our borders and it way out of control , if you applied the same immigration ratio to a country like germany there would be a complete meltdown of that country also , its bizarre ………….. queue the FG bloggers

in fairness I think we’ve been more than generous , the recent census shows us that 17% of the population or roughly 762 000 people are born outside ireland , thats a massive jump when you think that before Maastricht in 1993 on 20yrs ago almost all of the population was native Irish .

So how do you account for the *millions* of Irish who have migrated? They’ve been accepted all over the world.Seven hundred-odd thousand incomers is paltry by comparison.

so you think we should base our immigration policy on the numbers of Irish who have emigrated ?? so we let in the same number as we let out since the beginning of time ?

Poland should let in the same number they let out since the beginning of time ?

yes your a smart guy , you should start drawing up those policies and submit them to the european parliament , you will find plenty of people there who will genuinely consider your proposals although it seems like they have already .