the dole have a fair idea who is cheating the system.its the man and woman who has lost their job through no fault of their own whom i feel sorry for.who have to wait sometimes months before their dole comes through and who are trying to do their best to get a job. i just hope ms burton clamps down on the right people.

Tightening the screws on welfare cheats is all very well. But I remember when I was in Thatcher’s Britain in the 1980s. Whenever they tried to make things more difficult for dole cheats what happened was that the cheats would adapt to any new rules and would find ways to continue cheating…but many legitimate and especially vulnerable claimants would find their lives more difficult as they tried to cope with the new rules and jargon.
We need to be careful not to do that.

I agree with clamping down on dole cheats, but it’s important that innocent people aren’t punished as well. Demoralised youngsters don’t need more difficulty in their lives…they need encouragement and real options.

I once gave a lift to a young guy to Cork city from Mallow and in the course of conversation asked him what he was doing.. he said he finished his leaving cert about a couple of years ago and wanted to take life easy so he is on the dole. He also said he is living with his parents and has no intentions to look for a job in the near term…

I am a diabetic and am eligible for a GP card and have been refusing to take it coz i have a job and can pay for my expenses. I am an immigrant from India and was shocked to see the way people who dont want to work are pampered in this country. I appreciate Me. Burton to be bold enough to make the statements about some people who are exploiting the state and tax payers money.

In India if we lose our job there is no support whatsoever, no child allowance, no dole, no medical card, no Gp card, no job seekers allowance. ireland is fabulous coz it helps its jobless get back on their feet and supports them in helping to get back to the job market but Ireland is also terrible that it encourages further laziness among those who want to be lazy and milk the system. Some one in my town threw a party in the local pub for being on the dole for 30 years!!!

Need I say more??

she should have a good look around the Dail and particularly the Seanad and identify those who sit there for 5 years just for the money!!!!………96,000 euro a year for nodding your head!!,,,

I know people genuinly struggling to get anything and only ever being able to get the odd temp job who have always worked. That being said I also work in a bookies and seen plenty of the other kind. One of the shops I used to work in would have people yelling at me “I pay your wages” til I pointed out my wages paid their dole! Its horrible that there are people genuinly struggling looking for any crappy job and then there’s spongers who do fuck all with their time.

were the comments not directed at those who choose not to work ? ? not those who are unable ?

In all honesty she is right to a point. If someone is offered training that will improve their employment prospects and refuses it without good reason they should be penalised in some way. Also, I know from when I was unemployed that it is very difficult to get work in other sectors. I was told I was either underexperienced or overqualified and that was on the rare occasion you could get your job application acknowledged…

can anyone tell me please,that if someonre is caught defrauding the dole,they still get their payment with a few bob taken out of it to pay back what they stole in the 1st place. does this even make sence if true?

Why did it take so long for the penny to drop?

How do people who are not on dole afford to upskill themselves? I have noticed that people who are on dole can avail of courses either free or at a reduced rate, whereas the people who currently hold a low paid job and would like to improve their skills are sometimes prevented as many courses are expensive.

Maybe I have missed something along the way as I am a retired person so have not done a lot of searching with regard to courses.

Does anyone think that her plan of cutting payments to people who refuse work or a course is really about rooting out people who are working on the side, e.g. if they can’t turn up for a course they must be otherwise employed?

I’m going to go further than Burton and say that the anti-social scumbag class are taking the dole as a means of getting by week on week, year on year. We all know the type of people Ms.Burton is talking about. They are the ones with the white socks tucked into their black adidas tracksuit bottoms trying to intimate the rest of society. Well, there is an easy solution to this problem. Sort out the “these” folk from the actual decent people “having” to claim the dole as a means of getting by and threaten them with community service if they are too lazy to work. These scumbags are complaining about the foreign workers over here “stealing” our jobs but yet, when it comes to doing a hard days work, they’re nowhere to be found. Actually, you could find them, in an alley either robbing some “pur YoUNg WaN” or shooting up some crack… Well done Burton, you’re fecking right!

Well said minister, maybe labour aren’t that nuts after all. Im sick of seeing d welfare system abused by my mates while I work 16 hour shifts for peanuts because I have some pride in myself.

tony 100 euro a week to a young adult living at home getting there bills paid by mammy and daddy can give a “good” lifestyle. look at the clubs and bars at the weekend full of this age group do a survey of them a lot would be on the dole. system stinks. someone with 20 years stamps out of work for first time and gets the same as someone who never worked. and in the most part gets less as they dont know or wish to ‘work’ the system. joan is telling it as it is. but lets not say everyone on the dole are lazy cause thats def not the case. joan should push any money she can spend on getting genuine ppl back to work.

She is right. There are plenty of bums with no aspirations or intent to work. There are also plentyof people itching to work. Burton could have put a bit if thought into how she was going to make here statement. The government have and continue to anihiliate potential employment, but I am still glad to see that they are going to go after the sofa brigade

…I don’t think Aengus Ó Snodaigh or Sinn Féin are in any position to comment here. Joan Burton makes a very valid argument reguarding “career welfare recipients” who in good times & bad, have never made any inroads into getting a job, or finding any meaningful way way to give back to the State. If anything I’m surprised that the number is as small as 55 (the number of specific cases Joan Burton was referring to). Nowhere is Europe do the longterm unemployed have it so easy. It’s time to toughen up & get real.

Well done Joan Burton, i dont mind anyone getting the dole who has lost their job, while they look for another. The people who dont want to work should get nothing. Why should I do 80+ hours a week to give these freeloaders money for fags and cider, whos the fool

bollocks all of it!!!!! every person on the dole should have their dole stopped if they don’t apply for jobs. they should give written proof, names of companies and types of jobs applied for BEFORE they get their payment. problem solved!!!!!! spot checking should be done on everyone!!!! you lie you don’t get the dole simple as!!!!!

This is not new. Parts of Ireland have the same problem with generational unemployment that can be found in the UK and the US. In addition, when I came home in 2006 I was absolutely shocked by the ‘gastarbeiter’ attitude Ireland had developed over the Celtic Tiger. Many young Irish feel they are simply too good and too important to take a low paying unpleasant job. Ever wondered why you never hear English, let alone Irish, spoken on the garbage collections? ‘Cos the Polish aren’t so far up their own arses they’d rather sit on the dole than perform a very necessary service (ask Naples, if you don’t believe me). The meek shall inherit the Earth.

I work in an electrical store and this morning I made people spend €950 with welfare checks. So trust me they get plenty more than the €185. Last week I had sum1 buy a tv and digital camera with welfare cheques.

You arent entiltled to anything if you are living at home with “Mammy and Daddy” – If you leave college you dont get a cent till you move out or get a job… even then its only 100 euro a week IF you are able to move out a and pay rent and bills.. get real, there is no one “living at home off Mammy +daddy getting 100e for the pub”… Joan Burton decided to go after young people in her comments… not generations who wont work and are recieving thousands in social welfare cheques and payments plus a free house. There are plenty of people who NEED the social welfare payments BUT dont get them due to circumstances and background. This too is unfair- its a biased system. Ive been in and out of employment for a year (we all have our sob stories!) – i cant recieve a cent because im under 25. I work wherever I can.. without “mammy and daddy” putting a roof over my head i would be in Austrailia like so many others. Im the one stuck in the poverty trap and i have a bloody MA. Burton is right in advocating social welfare reform BUT it better be true reform and not another attack on young people… We want jobs not a life on the dole despite what you say.. where are the 15,000 jobs you promised us??

I agree with Burton on this one. At the risk of seeming like a crank, here’s my suggestion.
Replace unemployment benefit (and certain others) with a universal benefit to for all citizens over 18, set at a ‘survival’ level? All tax credits and loopholes abolished to simplify the tax system and ensure the wealthy pay their share. A universal benefit would compensate for the loss of tax credits, while it would encourage those formerly “on the dole” to work since they would be able to keep their earnings (less tax of course).

She’s dead right. There are way to many out there sponging off the state.
There’s plenty of jobs out there, but some people have grown accustomed to their lifestyle of leisure, that they can’t be bothered actually getting a real job.

yeah. people don’t like the truth…

Yes it makes me sick to see people who have EVERYTHING, cars, houses, parents who support them like crazy and as a lone parent mostly when there partner is living with them and just dissapears “in the closet” when the welfare officers come around. Lone parents like me then who are depending on it and REALLY need the money are thrown in the same pot! That is not fair – even of course scared how it effects ME when they get harsher now i absolutely agree that something has to be done! Wish me luck ;-)

The “sofa brigade” are a small minority who do need to be sorted out, however there are not the jobs out there for the numbers of school leavers who find themselves let down by this country. Not all of them have the transferable skills to emigrate nor should they have tp!
Job creation is the key and that is yet another broken promise of this Government, while billions are paid out to bodholders in the last two weeks .

Of course some school leavers are claiming social welfare as a “lifestyle choice”. Also, young women having “X” amount of babies to get a bigger house etc. I know people who have done this. The system is wrong. Anybody who thinks this doesn’t happen is naive to say the least!

There are some people who choose the dole as a “lifestyle choice” as she put it, but that’s always the case. I doubt there’s anymore since the recession hit than there was during the celtic tiger years, it’s just become more acceptable in a wider section of society to be unemployed now because everyone now knows someone who’s been let go.

The dole and social welfare are there to protect the people that GENUINELY need assistance through no fault of their own. People that lose their job are entitled to it and as a society we need to look after our people in their time of need. For too many years there have been spongers that haven’t worked an honest day in their life, while our pay packet gets hammered every month to keep this country afloat…. There are plenty of jobs out there if you are willing to work, but some people think that working in a shop, restaurant, service industry is beneath them for some reason… We need to change people’s attitude towards work and that is going to be the hardest thing.

Well-said Joan Burton. Even during the boom, there remained a residual number of people claiming benefits and allowances whilst making no effort to seek employment at all. We live in a society where as citizens we have a combination of rights and responsibilities. We have the right to be caught by social safety-nets if we fall upon hard times through no fault of our own. Nevertheless, it is also our responsibility to participate in society in a meaningful way and to the best of our ability. All too-often, the focus is on the former whilst the latter is neglected whether it be a hard-core underclass of welfare cheats or a hardcore business aristocracy who continually avoid paying taxes, whilst decent hard-working people, both middle and working class pick up the tab.

However, I am concerned that we may be descending into the politics of populism, and that we are beginning to tar all claimants with the same brush. The basic fact remains; unemployment has trebled in the last four years through economic forces alone. People didn’t suddenly decide to down tools and become lazy in 2008 and 2009. The focus must also remain on fostering the conditions necessary for job creation.

There are no jobs in Ireland?
True. There are no high paying jobs in Ireland now for those with no skills.
In the past few years, those with no skills got jobs on building sites. The money was fantastic, the work could be hard, but no skills were required.
These are now the majority of people that are filling up the unemployment register. Is it the states fault that these people decided to leave school to go into non skilled jobs?
I know all about the shortage of construction jobs. I’ve worked in construction for 20 years. I’ve worked freelance for the past 7 years, as there was never any jobs in North Donegal for my skills. Freelance gave me the freedom to work close to home if jobs came up.
My point is this. I’m used to working away from home. From Dublin, Portlaoise, Naas, Belfast and elsewhere around the country. I’ve had no choice.
Since this recession started, I’ve managed to get 3 seperate contracts/jobs. I’m almost finished my 3rd. I’e been out of work for a total of 2 weeks during the past 3 years of the recession.
My secret? I get off my arse and go looking for work. I’m currently working in Scotland. I do 2 weeks straight through and a weekend off. This contract only has a few weeks left. Then I’ll head to London if I have to.
Not once have I considered sitting at home on the dole and waiting for a job opportunity to appear outside my house. I go looking for a job, and take what I can get. It may not be ideal, but I don’t sit on my computer all day complaining about my situation. I get on with it.
Before anyone asks, I have a wife and 2 children. I’d do anything to support them. And that is what I’m doing.
To those that want to get off the registar, make it happen yourself. Don’t expect someone else to do it for you.

Maybe Joan should attack these scroungers before attacking the poorest in our society….

Since General Election in March to the end of July ( 5 months)..
Ten LABOUR TDs have between them, claimed a total of 213,650 EURO just for their expenses..
They also have a salary of 92,000 EURO per year..

LABOUR TD Dominic Hannigan Total expenses since March..22,415 EURO..

LABOUR TD Kevin Humphryes…Total expenses since March..15,705 EURO.

LABOUR TD Michael McCarthy..Total expenxes since March…21,395 EURO.

LABOUR TD Michael McNamara..Total expenses since March..24,755 EURO

LABOUR TD Derek Nolan..Total expenses since March..24,755 EURO.

LABOUR TD Ann Phelan…Total expenses since March..19,985 EURO.

LABOUR TD Brendan Ryan..Total expenses since March..17,960 EURO.

LABOUR TD Authur Spring…Total expenses since March..25,850 EURO.

LABOUR TD Alex White..Total expenses since March..15,705 EURO.

LABOUR TD Ciaran Lynch..Total expenses since March…25,225 EURO..

Oh in terms of plans for real jobs, I suggest investment in generic pharmaceuticals manufacture, computer software and hardware manufacture, Public works investment to name a few.

Big difference you are talking about criminals who are defrauding the state and every effort should be made to resolve this problem, cutting the money of people on the dole will not stop the defrauders and only force more people into even worse poverty than they already in.

Joan Burton is correct in what she says.
There are many people who choose to live their lives on the dole. Too many.

This did happen in the 80′s and 90′s too. I can remember an in-law being followed to work on a building site back in the early 90′s by dole inspectors. He knew they were following him, so just packed up his tools and drove back home. They had no proof he was working and claiming the dole.

The difference today is that the focus is placed on immigrants (sorry. Foreign nationals. I don’t want to be called racist).

Here’s where people call me a racist:
The Polish and Eastern Europeans are screwing the system far more than Irish people.
They work here off the books (how many of you have had the leaflets in the door offering window/chimney/ anything cleaning?), then they send the money they make back home.

Then you have the ones no longer living here, but still claiming the dole.
Remember the Icelandic volcano? How many tens of thousands were caught out by that one?
We need stricter border controls to prevent that from happening again, but no
TD will say it for fear of being branded as racist.

Then you have the African Elephant in the room.
Apart from making jokes about e-mails from Nigerian royalty, we’re not allowed to talk about the people from Africa claiming to be persecuted and conveniently landing in Ireland to escape the persecution. International law dictates that refugees have to claim asylum in the first country they land in.
There are no direct flights from anywhere in Africa to Ireland.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ve no problem with refugees coming here. If anything, I’d have more. The problem I have is that the ones coming here are doing so because of the welfare system.
A genuine refugee wouldn’t be worried about how much money they are going to get on the dole. They would just want to be safe, and would be happy to get to anywhere in the EU.

Minister Burton is correct when she criticises our home grown sponges, but the foreign ones are larger in number and really need to be dealt with too.

Better control over people entering here from other EU states is badly needed.

Retinal scan should be the only way to claim the dole at the post office or dole office,no payments through bank accounts except for the sick , disabled and elderly this would clear out fraudsters , anyone who refuses work or training should get no dole at all only food vouchers. Also no more work visa’s for foreign workers how the hell can we get people of the dole when we are bringing in foreign workers to do hotel work.

G’wan Joan! It’s about time someone has the guts to say this publicly. Too long us ‘immigrants’ have been getting blamed for robbing the system but the culture here is just as, if not more, guilty but no one is willing to admit it.

I wholeheartedly agree with Joan. We have a culture of “fall-back” and dependency on social welfare if we can’t find work. There is plenty of work out there and the one major criticism I have of the government at the moment is that there is too much emphasis on job creation and not enough on activation services. We need to re-engage people back into employment , support them but also make them accountable for looking for work….. this is the missing link between the unemployed and employers looking for staff at the moment.

I think Joan Burton is right about this.. But its not just some working class school leavers that are abusing the system as seems to be suggested in some of the comments above. I know of graduates that basically think they are too good for most jobs. They think that because they have a degree or Masters they are somehow superior to most roles and therefore won’t apply for most jobs. They apply for jobs that they know they have little chance of getting because of a lack of experience and this allows them keep claiming the dole. There are also plenty of graduates out there with career specific degrees that are only seeking work in that area. For example teaching graduates that are only applying for teaching roles or architect graduates only looking for . roles as archictects (which are few and far between). As far as I’m concerned, these people should take any job they can get even if its working in McDonalds, rather than expecting the taxpayer to fund their lifestyles.

Alice you are spot on.

The hatred displayed by some of the posts on this page shock me. People really need to think what type of a society they want to live in. One where we attack and turn on each other (divide & conquer) or where we could apply the principals of a just and equal society where those in need are supported. Yes I agree those who cheat and defraud are punished in a suitable manner. But the resentment displayed by many comments towards the unemployed is a reflection of how individual we have become. “I am all right Jack” attitude.
No I am not some bleeding heart but I do see that there are many dimensions to the many problems we are facing as a society and we need to address them in a fair and just way.

Reform is necesary, and the activation measures being implemented have great potential but they need to be focused, targeted and helpful not punative in nature.

I wish people would get their facts right before commenting a school leaver doesn’t get 188 per week on social welfare the MAX they can get is 100 euro and it is means tested, so come on please tell me what lifestyle can you have getting at max €100

Burton is somewhat right. There are far too many lazy s**ts out there who get handed their dole money and do nothing. As others have stated though she should have worded her speech differently, I and many people I know where forced on the dole through no fault of our own. Though saying there are no jobs at all is a pile of crap. There are jobs out there, you just have to work harder to get them, if the effort is willing to be put in then you will reap what you sow.

Nice to see my well educated younger citizens describe me as “sponger, scum, cheat” etc I like to see they are so grateful for the education etc they received from my taxes over the years, but then again where do they get their information from… oh yeah newspapers like the NOTW etc, btw the maple 10 cost the taxpayer 300 million, Quinn group 4 Billion, the Banks 80 Billion, I think all the young people under 25 on the dole would have to be drawing the dole for at least 50 years to run up a bill as big as the latter , then again its easy for my brave fellow younger citizens to attack the most vulnerable, easier do that then question the 6000 tax exiles who lecture us on how to live while not putting anything into the kitty, btw if any of the employed commentators feel they are paying too much tax, I will swap with them! they can have my 188 euro weekly salary in return

How the hell do you create a lifestyle on 188 euros a week.

Wow, huge surprise there.

wild statements like this should not be made until such time as she can say, there is employment here for every single person

Im currently under 25 and living at home. After I pay my bills Im left with about 55/week. You tell me how any person can live on that for a week with the prices of food and everything? Give me a break

Joan, where’s the jobs? FAS is useless. Aren’t you going to admit your husband never works all his life? Are you doubt standard or what?

To criminalize those who have no work is typical right-wing shortsightedness. People need real jobs that pay a decent wage. This attitude of their all lazy is like the slave mocking the freeman for not being a slave. Why be proud of the fact you work ridiculous hours and get paid terrible money and make some capitalist more rich. You should be outside in solidarity with the unemployed people demanding a new fairer society with decent jobs for all. It has always been a tactic of governments to divide and conquer the working classes. And when we have a society where everyone has a RIGHT to a decent job then call the ones who dont work lazy.

YES IN SOME CASES I DO AGREE… BUT IN A LOT OF CASES THE STATE’S PAYING OUT HUGE SUM’S OF CASH TO NO NATIONALS IN DOLE MONEY AND JOB’S ARE VERY FEW FOR THE SAME KIND OF REASON’S!
SORRY BUT WE NEED TO SORT OUT OUR OWN HOUSE FIRST?
AND NO I’M NOT RACI
RACIST THANK YOU….

Even if there is some justification in what you say Joan..what a dreadful focus you have….where do your children sign on ????

You also forgot Burton, the people on the Dole didn’t choose to go on the Dole for welfare. It was you and the rest of this crony government, bankers, and developers put them there in the first place. Maybe it you had not voted for all your past dicission on the bailout and the Lisbon Treaty, were would not be in the mess were in
.
Choose your words carefully, and do the citizens of Ireland justice, please step down. Your costing the exchequer and tax payer to much money being there in office…

Of course people have a RIGHT to a decent job, by that definition your essentially stating that society must rely on some people being treated poorly in order for the economy to work. Nobody is stating that hard work isnt important but that hard work must be rewarded on its merits not by what competition dictates. Your talking about Socialism as if its some crackpot scheme devised by lunatics. Let me ask you what sounds like a better system to you? A system where the rich continue to get richer and wealth is further concentrated to the few that means economic disaster for most every couple of years or a system which is planned and sustainable where everyone gets a fair share and a fair say? I want equality I must be a Stalinist

Second attack on the poor by labour in 24 hours following shortass’s comments yesterday on smokers. Basically joan, tell the bankers to get stuffed first, then borrow on the open market and you might have some credibility.

The clothes on her back are worth more than most people’s dole for a month..

The Minister seems to have lost her way. Back in 2007 her views on this subject seemed clear, please see attached link. The unemployment problem is due to, ‘Cowenomics’, ohh very flashy, chew on that little soundbite People. Young men are considered too and their numbers are put down to a failing, or perhaps F Failing Construction Industry. As Joan says that’s the, ‘reality’, of it. Of course Ministers become removed from reality very quickly. Keep churning the same rubbish all Pooliticians.

http://www.joanburton.ie/dublin-west-issues/blanchardstown-dole-queues-53-longer-since-%E2%80%9807-election

This country is f**k*d. I worked all my life (30 years) and paid my taxes, but came back to Ireland for health reasons 2 years ago and cannot get a job in this s**t country. Apparently, I am “too qualified” and the jobs I am going for (cleaning, call-centres, etc.) I get told I’m not worth training as I will leave when something more in my line turns up. Hence the employment of foreigners in kitchens, pizza parlours and so on! It’s seems people with any intelligence cannot get a job here because they cost too much to employ. This site is a classic example – I tried earlier to leave a comment, but the site is so badly designed and maintained that it crashed with all the comments! Monkeys running the country and everything in it!

you stupid shower of clowns i heard all that diatribe in the eighties if joan burton can get jobs tell her to give out most peole would rather be working than idol and be independent for themselves i don,t use foul language much but any one who say,s any differ is a dick head my blood is boiling i did not hear ye say much about the foreign nationals with 1.5 mill last week are you all afraid you be done racism when it is only the truth

she looks like kevin keegan in the old days

Will i still get Vodka vouchers if the dole is cut,All my houses are in negative equity and i only get Rent Allowance for three of them,Thank God i can claim the dole in an other EU country for three months if im looking for work.Winter in the Canaries this year,Save the fuel allowance and buy a new car when i return in March to sign on.something wrong with this country if a man looks down on another just because he is on the dole.

What a wonderfully objective person you must be Gerry b, since you can come on here and judge people who make comments based on their own personal experiences. What gives you the right to tell me what my attitude is like? Make a comment about the country, make a comment about Joan Bruton’s statement, make a comment about the forum, but how dare you personally attack people?

I have every right to say how I feel about my experiences here, and I did that without personally attacking anyone. But I guess there are some people who trawl the Internet with the sole intention of picking fights with everyone else.

Vote for Joe Higgins…He knocked Joan out of her seat before..help him do it again..it’s our choice

is this minister educated or what? welfare being a lifestyle choice!!! is she on drugs or what, this government is making welfare a lifestyle choice not the people hypocrisy in democracy yet again. she’s not worried about the next signing day she’s on a hefty paycheck what do any of these pin heads know what WE want. try leaving on 200 a well you wankers then say welfare is lifestyle choice, and by the way I have a LLM in law and i can’t even find a job the day I leave this rotten country will be the dat this country loses another bright spark. many more will leave and this government or for that matter the next government won’t give a shit as long as they get fat paychecks and nice bribes they are ok. their motto is, Give us your wealth, welfare for the rest!”

I just posted my blog on Facebook. Burton and the handout department on Welfare.

Another blistering attack on the most vulnerable people on dole who are doing there best to make ends meet.
Her days and Labours days are numbered in the Dail, watch out. You saw what happen to the F.F. and the Greens. Your next Burton, along with Gilmore and the other’s

Read my blog http://facebook.com/libertyed

This is complete nonsense. No one chooses to be on the dole for the simple reason thats its barely enough to survive on. I have been job hunting all summer and have handed out more than 100 CVs and still haven’t got a job. There simply are not jobs out there. The reason the dole queues have trebled in size is because the economy has nearly collaspsed, not because a lot of people suddenly got lazy. Unemployed life is brutal and soul destroying and anyone who envies it clearly knows nothing about it.