Labour is no more.
Labour has been absorbed into Fine Gael.

There is no more Labour that I will ever vote for again until my dying days, these monkeys will wait until all the severe cuts are made THEN when it’s all done…they’ll kick a fuss, but as usual they will change nothing or reverse any cut and so goes on the vicious circle of “it wasn’t us” bull***t. If Jesus took the helm of labour I wouldn’t vote for them ever again as for FG don’t get me going……traitors the LOT!

we all make mistakes, you’ll know the next time

Sadly all the parties will let you down. I voted green back in the day as my ‘none of the above’ option and look where that got us.

Beamish ran a poster years back as part of their ‘consistency in a world gone mad’ campaign that read:
“No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in”

I think it’s time we accepted that Sinn Fein are a protest party. Their economic policies variate between the fiscally clueless and flat out batshit insane, their tale on pretty much everything is unsubstantiated populism which generally appeals to the kind of voter who lacks either the time or the ability to see that if implemented these policies would totally devastate what remains of the economy.

Of course for fantastical flat out bonkers economics we have Richard Boyd-Barrett in comparison to whom SF look almost reasonable.

There. I’ve said it. Red thumb away!

You haven’t actually said anything of the slightest economic relevance, except to piss from an assumed height on your partisan political enemies.
You don’t even merit a thumb. You overestimate yourself.

Just like our successive self-inflated governors.

Only problem is they would be worse…we need a viable alternative.

You are correct of course!

We need informed educated analysis committed to putting the original equality back in the democratic idea alongside the overblown Liberty that has become a cloak for licenced return of the same old aristocratic thinking in pin-striped packaging.

The lost Elmore,

Have we not already had the bonkers economic policies espoused by FG/LAB/FF/Green/PD’s put us in the fiscal abyss and why not try the other parties and groups who had not had power be any worse.

Labour are finished and like fg they will be destroyed like the vermin they turned out to be.
They like fg have their fanatical die hard supporters but at the end of the day the ballot box will decide the outcome.
This year is going to be interesting.

@Damien By equality I take it you mean some kind of wealth redistribution/social transfer system well above what’s there already?

Would it be asking a great deal to say what you actually mean instead of using warm and fuzzy-sounding words that are a very loose approximation of what it is you’d like to see happen.

@Al S Not really. We’ve had a sort of crony capitalism espoused by FF since the 60s with every now and then the electorate getting pissed off enough to give some flavour of opposition a whirl.

This needs to change and oddly enough it’s the Troika that are bringing it about. I’d hate to think how much worse things would be if dealing with the recession was left up to Irish politicians.

This state of affairs does NOT mean we need to give SF’s peculiar flavour of hard left economics a shot and see where it gets us. They were asked to submit their alternative budget to the department for coatings and verification – they wouldn’t do this meaning that they don’t think it’s credible either.

People are all the rage about “change” these days. It’s time they spent a little effort in specifying to what. SF’s tactic is political grandstanding, populism, disagreeing with everything and spouting figures with no proper analysis to back them up.

If you’ve no grasp on the meaning of ‘equality’ you are well and truly lost, lenore.

Try a dictionary. I don’t have time to waste teaching English to remedial learners.
Cutbacks.

How ironic.

So we’ll assume Damien intends taking money off certain people and giving it to certain other people and solving all our problems in the process.

Which is fine for a grand old rant however as an actual economic policy it might aswell be written on the back of a beer mat. In crayon.

The lost Elmore,
The public view the policies now espoused by FG and Lab to be totally opposite to their election rhetoric.other parties of ULA/SF and independents have gained support because they had their policies costed by external financial experts and the euro lackey media tried to rubbish has backfired. Ireland has more people leaving than during the Irish famine .Is this fact NOT enough proof of failed policies and approach to Europe.new party of Direct Democracy Ireland website has an alternative approach that may appeal to people who don’t fancy any opposition party in the Dail at present.

You assume a lot of things in your ignorance. You seem to have assumed in to your own narcissistic heaven.

Weird Al,

First off I’ve an ambivalent attitude to the current government. They’ve had success in some areas, failures in others but have been more or less dropped in the proverbial since day 1 with very little wriggle room. A fair analysis would take that into account.

Fact is they were always going to have to make cuts and this was always going to upset people.

As for election promises, well welcome to politics. All parties do it and if you don’t promise the impossible you won’t get elected. Some of the stuff the ULA come out with would require a subversion of reality to actually implement and of course RBB and his cohorts are well aware of this.

“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number.

Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.

[Some people] have a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom. I believe that it is easier to establish an absolute and despotic government amongst a people in which the conditions of society are equal, than amongst any other; and I think that, if such a government were once established amongst such a people, it would not only oppress men, but would eventually strip each of them of several of the highest qualities of humanity. Despotism, therefore, appears to me peculiarly to be dreaded in democratic times.”

Alexis de Tocqueville

Quick question for the purpose of clarification, define success?

Sean

All law restrains freedom. Our freedom has to be governed by the limitations imposed by the freedom of others, and the rights of all to a semblance of justice.

Democracy itself is such a communal restraint.

The lost lenore,

All parties we know will make promises to be elected is well known.but a party which. Rejects its own policies in total to gain their hands on the lever of power has made a Mockery of the people who voted for them plus the wider electorate who voted and gives credence to the view of people who dont vote that all political parties are the same.RBB and SF or Joe Higgins and Shane Ross have commented on what the outcomes would be before government enacted such policies and the effects had been very accurate in their summations so far.Whatever views people espouse for it against any government is fair but a government parties that reject each of their manifestos is a dangerous step into an unknown political Pandora’s box.

Sean,
It appears the despotic approach appears to be reforming across Europe with the current actions of the EU political class.people are becoming more desperate and the US fiscal cliff if unresolved will feed into the current rise in fear across the world.

Damien, it speaks volumes that you believe that the erosion of freedom is a necessary and desirable function of government, while you are so quick to attach the label of fascist to others.
This reinforces the argument that every socialist is a fascist in training.
As Stephen points out- terms such as equality and success are meaningless without context. They are the mantra of political opportunists and the intellectually feeble.

“There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal.”
 Friedrich August Hayek

@Sean

No problem agreeing about terms requiring context.
So perhaps you would like to define your socialism for us.
Tell us why you reject any attempt at replacing equality on the democratic agenda, and perhaps whether you see ANY limit to individual freedom as you conceive it.
You through in the broadsweeping Tocqueville quote. It contains quite few vacuous rhetorical flourishes. Often a symtom of dictatorial browbeating. I’m the one trying to fathom your context. Heres a quote in return;
“Fascism is not in itself a new order of society. It is the future refusing to be born.”Aneurin Bevan.

Much harm.
Labour are the only party that inherited the analysis of Connolly and Mellows as to the background to Irish national subjugation.
Without that forensic analysis we are as a rudderless ship on a lee shore in a force twelve. No way to meet 2016, unless you are a colonial minion.

Theirs is a greater treason that mere national betrayal.

Lab party hierarchy and ICTU are fully paid up members of the William Martin murphy approach to economics espoused by FG/FF/IBEC/SFA/ISME/RTE d4 view of the world.Gilmore would have Connolly,Larkin et al arrested for staging a strike today under present legislation in regards to public assembly.

Lab party hierarchy and ICTU are fully paid up members of the William Martin murphy approach to economics espoused by FG/FF/IBEC/SFA/ISME/RTE d4 view of the world.Gilmore would have Connolly,Larkin et al arrested for staging a strike today under present legislation in regards to public assembly.

Disagree there.
The PDs drove the whole political culture to the velvet neoliberalist fascistic right. They were always more blueshirt than O’Duffy in FF drag.

i was referring to their downfall

They didn’t downfall..they fell sideways with nice packages.

@joan- Hello. If you were in massive negative equity I suspect you would see it otherwise. Equally, bank assets (ie properties secured on loans) would be much higher. Prosperity always follows a buoyant property market. You’re right, though- I don’t think anyone would welcome a return to the runaway prices in Bertie’s boom.

Joan is spot on. She has nailed the carrot that goaded all the little mememe capitalist idiocy of the last 20 years of neoliberal squanderlust.

What bank assets banks own nothing except debt that they create illegally through fraud. The emperor has no clothes!

I agree with you, that it isn’t a good thing. Besides the fact that ridiculously high house prices could easily price the average family out of the market, there’s also the problem that if someone is having to spend a large amount of their income on a huge mortgage, that’s income that they aren’t able to spend in other areas of the economy, whether it be eating out, consumer goods etc. Affordable housing for all is a good thing. I can understand why developers and investors care, but to the average homeowner, with just their family home, I don’t see why it matters how much it’s worth seeing as if they cash in on its worth, they’re homeless.

@Frank- that’s a truly depraved, sick, pathetic comment and you should hang your head in shame.

They’re not standing by their values! They’re trying to make a name for themselves so come election time they can say “I was agin’ it from the start” and save their own seats. Obvious.

Behavioural science Michael?

You pontificate like a phukking bishop, not the highest scientific credential to flash. Or maybe you’re one of Skinner’s behaviouralists, the Pavlovian bellringers whose clangers resound yet.

Don’t feed the trolls. Well said frank. Those evil headers will vote with the party to shoot their own grannies. The whip system is the worst of every possible world.

Hilarious. Anyone pro-Government is a troll.

Damien
When you run out of facts you behave very badly.

tsk tsk..yes auntie Michael.

@al- you really should just stick the An Phoblacht logo up as an avatar.

Al
The expression is correctly written as …..ringing true !

Vincent,
Of the Irish electorate at the next general election have a choice.choice of parties that offer an anti and pro Europe choices.pro Europe choice has so far damaged the economy and social fabric of families,communities and hope.will people still so gullible to continue to back a euro body that’s wrecking their futures.

@al- the Irish Republic is made up 4.5 million people living off the west coast of Europe. While we bat above our weight in many ways, we do so because we are progressive, educated, inclusive member of the European Union-a perfect gateway to Europe for the English speaking world. EU membership has brought prosperity in the whole and genuine international influence. To even recognise an “anti-Europe” argument is to subscribe to DeVelera’s dream of thatched rooves and red haired maidens and would condemn this Republic to poverty and irrelevance. I mention this in passing.

Vincent,
An EU report on Ireland’s EU membership dated 1974-2005 is the latest this reports shows €160 billion was removed from Irish waters by foreign vessels.Ireland had fish processing plants the value would be double at €320 billion lost to the Irish exchequer.irish fishing fleet have less than 3% of the catch.not included the oil a gas sell off as well.Troika bailout Norway and Iceland got larger part of Irish waters to fish.

@Coco- Had this Government adopted the policies often espoused on here and by Sinn Fein, notably burning bondholders and throwing the two fingers at Europe, rest assured our prospects would be noticeably gloomier today. Therefore, yes this Government can take credit for the sensible path taken. Busy festive season? Were ye set up at the RDS?

Vincent they didnt adopt the shinners policies the simply adopted the policies of fianna fail
which is worse?
your call

@Frank- I don’t agree. There is no “Fianna Fáil” policy. They just adhered to the bailout conditions that were inevitable as a result of the economic mismanagement. Thanks again Micheal. And this Government have been constrained by those same conditions. Hence the similarities you identify. Now if you want a more striking change, yes you could vote for West Belfast’s Gerry Adams and co. I, on the other hand would prefer that we stayed in the EU, fended off economic Armageddon and that there was a few bob in the bank machines around the country. Also- can you imagine how many ink cartridges SF would go through if they were in power?

Vincent you know im not a shinner
im disappointed in fine gael/labour and i hate when people who are pro government call me and my likes moaners and whingers.
where is the banking enquiry
why can john noonan not identify who signed off on anglo’s books.
how come funds meant for the bondholders went to pay bankers pensions
i understand the constraints of the deal but there is a political unwillingness to deal with these issues.
there is within the government a four man special committee that pass everything and that is also worrying as we all know what happened the last time a closed decision was made in this country

Worse again, Frank.

Most of us are prepared to make allowances for the corruption of FF and the PD ideological entrapment that set the sorry mess up, and for the inescapable global dimensions to the crisis. But FG show no sign of understanding the dimensions of the problem. They come across as a fresh set of mindless mantra delivery boys on the phukking make, while Labour have obviouly been hollowed out by Stalinist self-serving plants.

Treason is an appropriate word. They are betraying the people, who constitute the nation. We are in the hands of a similar set of gombeen gobshytes to the ones that greased inthe Act of Union. The logic will eventually unfold to suit.

putting the cart before the horse again
i feared this before they got in
the notion of staying in power before the notion of using the power

But Labour are at the core of all that is wrong along with FF, FG and PD’s. you cannot run a country through parish pump politics. There is no competence and worse still, no leadership. It is sickening to watch the idiots and clowns we elect making a mockery of our country and forcing masses of our young and not so young to emigrate. Notwithstanding all the horrible attributes of the FF / PD governments, the present government had to be the worst in living memory.

Don’t pull your head out yet, Vincent. The POP will deafen the New Zealanders.

Give me time to warn them.

And the award for lowbrow demagoguery goes to Damien Flinter. Come up and collect your trophy, Damien. Questioning the patriotism of those who take an alternate point of view to your good self is a creaky, rusty old ruse – must try better next time.

Patriotism is last refuge, lenore. I leave it to the lost. The creaking is your own jaded neoliberal apologetics.

Tsk Damien. All this talk of treason, betrayal, graves and acts of union. Run it through a filter into German and tell us what it sounds like.

Oh, and if you’re going to indulge in a high pitched, emotive wheeze with a scoop full of loaded words and phrases, try not to assume anything about the political opinions of others.

Just because I don’t buy into the “it’s all crap, it’s all somebody else’s fault and romantic Ireland’s blah blah blah” doesn’t mean I’m neo liberal.

I’ll leave to your echo chamber, lemore. You and yourself make a lovely couple.

what accomplishments?

Roisin wasn’t happy from the first day as a Junior Minister. She wanted the full blown job from the off. The best she can manage now is a whinge to a free sheet newspapers. Even the National correspondents are giving her a wide berth.
In political life it’s always wiser to be on the inside of the tent as you can influence nothing from the backbenches and particularly when you’ve let your Party down during difficult times.
The way a lot of people on this site is that everone else was out of step except their darling Roisin. Gives us a break.

@Peasant- Interest rate reduced, a huge reduction in the cost of sovereign borrowing, economic growth, a bank deal coming, employment stabilised, house prices beginning to creep up again and the genuine prospect of restoring economic sovereignty & waving goodbye to the Troika. In short, a stabilised economy and a reputation on the mend.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA i asked you what accomplishments vincent, you didnt name one

Long term unemployed figures rising Frankfurt rule student fees rising child benefit cut 50/60 k people leaving country respite care grants cut home help hours cut Ect Ect think that enough accomplishments for one day.

stabilised?! really?!?

@john- you thought there’d be no cuts? €160 billion debt inherited? Survival is an accomplishment given the mess left behind.

@peasant- I believe I listed seven.

i know you believe that vincent, that’s what makes it so funny

This current Labour Party was a rattle bag of SF/WP/DL and joined up with FG to form continuity FF

@peasant- that’s all you’ve got? I mean, really? That’s it?

is that all ive got? really? thats weak even for you vincent, you know as well as i do that not one of those things is an accomplishment of this government, your claim is both deluded and pathetic

Bank bailout was illegal and Ireland’s debt to GDP was one of the lowest in Western Europe at the time but the Irish political turncoats decided to bailout Germany’s bankers and the dying Euro instead.

Labour my arse.

Rodrigo’s got a red arse!

@peasant- it’s amazing how every ill in this country is attributed to the Government, every piece of good news is somehow accidental. The price of power, I suppose. But for all your rhetoric, the fact remains that Ireland will be in a better place at the end of this Governments term than when they took over. That’s an accomplishment.

Mr Peasant
There are none so blind as those that refuse or cannot or are unable to see.

Mr Peasant
I’m beginning to think that you can’t read!

Roisin Shorthall is playing to the gallery. Why do people not get that? She’s gone from being an unpopular TD about to bring in an even less popular tax on cheap booze to a self appointed critic of austerity and the HSE that’s guaranteed to get reelected.

She’s looking after her own seat. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey lads,

Can we calm it down and refrain from the name-calling. It adds nothing to the debate/conversation. Remember, it’s a comments section, not your kitchen table.

Thanks
Sinead

@peasant- So you say. I on the other hand judge political parties by their actions. FF had 15 years to govern. They came remarkably close to bringing down this Republic. So I’m not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt as to what they might or might not have done. Bearing in mind SF’s alternate strategy of biting the hand that feeds you and the fact that it would deliver economic Armageddon, I’m comfortable enough giving credit where it’s due to the administration that is reversing us out of the ditch Micheal Martins lot drove us into.

quote “it’s amazing how every ill in this country is attributed to the Government, every piece of good news is somehow accidental” what are you talking about vincent, is this one of your ridiculous attempts to change the subject with twaddle? tell me a single pro-active policy this farce of an administration has introduced? if ff had got in we would be in exactly the same place we are now, would you be spouting on about accomplishments then? @ michael, jeez you really are a fool, i take it you ‘none so blind’ quote is directed at vincent, the two of you are guilty of the most nauseous sycophancy, the most deluded posters on here by far, i once though you might both be the same person but no, michael is just not that clever

Peasant
Michael is Paddy Rodgers a guy who got roasted here a while back and just couldent take it and Im glad you have made the distinction between the two of them
Michael/Paddy is solely on a self obsession trip while Vincent is a firm party man
Michael corrects spelling and grammer errors in order to deflect his limited knowledge on any subjects and you will notice that he doesn’t make stand alone comments just smug snide childish retorts.

@peasant- I really don’t know how to simplify that any further for you. Trying reading it a couple of times and you might get it. Is there anyone in the house with you that could help out, maybe?

@frank- political parties aren’t football teams. You are not obliged to follow them blindly forever, nor should you. So I’m not sure what “firm party man”, means. My views are my own. What I’m not is a lazy malcontent, incapable of no deeper insight than to play to the galleries…crying about an “incompetent / corrupt” Government. I know you’re not either, for the record.

Vincent what makes me cry is when i see guys like james reilly pull the very same strokes as the fianna fail thieves you and i hate and get away scot free.

i also know by previous conversations the reilly thing does not sit right with you aswell and this is where my description of firm party man comes in. enda knows reilly pulled a stroke and you do aswell. reilly kept enda in power when the fg young guns jumped ship so therefore enda has to back his man. that hurts, it hurts the integrity of every man woman and child in the country. do you understand my fears, do you understand why i am of the opinion that fine gael are not dong the right things for the people of this country. party before people hurts me people. is that the price of power?

sorry hurts *my people

@Frank- I don’t think an entire Government can be tainted by the James Reilly episode. It wasn’t good, for sure. But in the overall scheme of things hardly a red card offence. There’s a bigger picture. If this Government succeeds in getting a bank deal, in getting us back on the bond market at lower interest rates and waves goodbye to the Troika they will have proven themselves in my books.

vincent you cant pick and choose to ignore corruption
we are not getting a bank deal. we will be getting a second bailout which will enslave us even more.
angela mercel has from the get go talked about debt sustainability while enda interpates that as debt writedown or debt reduction
the troika are here for good

@Frank- it’s too far to say Reilly was corrupt. Guilty if parish pump politics, maybe. I’ve seen no evidence of corruption. We will get a bank deal. We will not need a second bailout. We will have the Troika out of Ireland in good time for 2016. And if we do, you’ll admit you were wrong and will vote FG/Labour at the next election, of course?!?!!

Vincent a bank deal is a very loose promise. do you mean write off, forgiveness, writedown or putting it on our backs for the longer term
and what if we dont?
will you take off the blue shirt and say you were wrong vincent

@Frank- failing to achieve a meaningful Bank deal would be a real failure so yes, I’d reconsider my vote. We’re not spoiled for choice on the other side of the aisle, though.

I’m not sure if you actually believe what you wrote or are just stiring, I’m going to assume stiring as none of it is factually correct or true in any sense.