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Dublin: 12 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Mortgage relief, EU summit, the IRA and an Anglo default: an eventful morning in the Dáil

It was a busy session of Leaders’ Questions…

ENDA KENNY has been challenged on government plans for cutting mortgage interest relief programmes, his agenda for tomorrow’s EU summit in Brussels, and the repayment of Anglo Irish Bank bonds in an eventful morning in the Dáil.

Kenny and Fianna Fáil’s Micheál Martin locked horns over the government’s plans to change the mortgage interest supplement scheme, saying Fianna Fáil would be seeking a Dáil vote to overturn planned changes.

Martin reported that Joan Burton had issued a statutory instrument which would see that scheme abandoned – a move the FF leader said “essentially begins the cutting out of mortgage interest relief”, a separate scheme.

“How can the Labour Party stand over phasing out the ending of the scheme?” Martin asked. “Where is the social solidarity?”

Kenny said the move was part of the reforms recommended under the Keane Report on mortgage arrears, a claim Martin contested.

Referring to last night’s announcement that the new insolvency legislation would be published on Friday, the Taoiseach said he wanted to make it “perfectly clear” that the legislation would address only people who “can’t pay” and not about those who simply wouldn’t.

This was unrelated to the Keane Report, he said, commenting that the use of legislative means for debt resolution would be lessened if other codes of practice were followed.

“You seem to be blissfully unaware about a measure that your social welfare minister took, that basically restricts low-income families” from accessing mortgage relief schemes, Martin accused.

The EU and the IRA

Sinn Féin’s Gerry Adams was next up, citing Kenny’s Irish Times interview this morning – where he admitted Ireland would not be “the focus” of leaders’ attention – as evidence that Kenny was simply not raising Ireland’s concerns at European level.

Adams concluded that Kenny was in favour of “even more dilution of Irish sovereignty and even more EU involvement in state budgets,” and asked the Taoiseach if he favoured “EU federal propositions”.

Kenny said this was “wrong on all counts” and listed the various measures – including project bonds, liberalisation of European Investment Bank funding and the redeployment of structural funds – he had pushed in Brussels.

“The challenge is to find politically a creative way of not withdrawing money from envelopes which are allocated to individual countries,” Kenny said, pointing out that Greece and Romania currently had European funds set aside for them which they were unable to use, because they could not match the EU funding with their own domestic investment.

“The problem that we face here is that, if you accept the principle of European decision-making and European sharing of liability, the corrolary is also true,” the Taoiseach said, saying the previous government had “lay down” in front of previous directions given by Europe.

“The principle of the acceptance of European decisions, and the European sharing of liability, was not applied in this country – to our cost,” he said.

Adams accused Kenny of “extreme revisionism” and told Kenny not to pretend that his trip to Brussels was akin to “a Munster final” where he was attending as a spectator rather than a player.

The Taoiseach took exception to the former remark, pointing out the historic events in Belfast and suggesting that Adams himself was also looking to revise history, quipping:

There’s one thing I have in common with you – and that is that neither you nor I were members of the IRA, or the IRA Army Council.

Anglo bondholders

For the technical group, Richard Boyd-Barrett complained about the full repayment of unsecured and unguaranteed Irish Bank Resolution Company bonds to their holders, saying there was a “very simple and very cruel” truth to the repayments.

“Somewhere in the Mediterranean or the Caribbean, a multi-millionaire speculator will be cracking open a bottle of champagne,” while Irish families were made homeless and schools lost teachers, Boyd-Barrett said, issuing a stark order to Kenny.

Refuse to enrich the multi-millionaire speculators in Anglo Irish bonds, and go to the European Council and tell Angela Merkel that we’ve had enough.

Kenny said he shared the dismay that the public had to honour banking debts, but pointed out that most of Anglo’s post-guarantee liabilities had been met under the previous government.

Defaulting on Anglo’s remaining bonds, he said, would raise doubts over whether other Irish banks might do similarly, and whether they could access the necessary liquidity from the ECB.

Boyd-Barrett suggested Kenny believed maintaining good relationships with bondholders was more important than the provision of services to children with learning disabilities or small rural schools.

“Half a billion euro, you are intending to pay back to these bondholders, so that our reputation is good with them – is that what you’re saying? Angela Merkel must absolutely adore you at this stage.”

Kenny suggested that Boyd-Barrett’s suggestion of walking away from IRBC’s remaining obligations would damage the reputations Ireland had built up since the EU-IMF bailout.

“If you think that in that ruthless world of commercial lending, where these situations apply, that this country can expect to continue to be funded if we were to default or not measure up to our responsibilities… at least Ireland’s reputation in the sense of a country that will do what it says it will do [...] provided we get the extra assistance and flexibility shown to us,” he said.

The Taoiseach quipped that Boyd Barrett did not “live in the real world” to think otherwise, describing his policies as “absolutely nonsense”.

Read: Government calls banks in over mortgage arrears

More: Kenny calls for sharing of bank debts – as Merkel again rules out Eurobonds

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Comments (37 Comments)

  • There is just a plain truth to the matter that Enda is not a confrontational person, he is a sit quietly and wait person. There are merits for having such a character but at times when the people in charge should really be employing a more hair em and scare em approach Enda just simply hasn’t got the character or the personality to do it. If he got up and did a desk thumping, saber rattling performance in front of other EU leaders he’d be laughed at because they’d know it was all an act and he wouldn’t have his heart in it anyways. This is where you want the lines of a Phil Hogan (now Im not his biggest fan, in fact I think he’s the most ignorant and egotistic member of the cabinet, what I mean is a person with a but of attitude and clout) being a belligerent Antichrist in meetings and refusing to let go of the issue…or somebody with a similar bit of attitude…Enda has all the presence and ferocity of a chihuahua in a straight jacket with all it’s teeth knocked out…that’s also in a coma!!! Merely loves her meek little puppy…I wonder does she let him ride around in her handbag when he visits Brussels?? :-p

    Reply
    • @mcbab. If you feel like you must look up to kenny and address him with capital letters then you are the insecure one.he doesn’t deserve them. Neither do you for that matter.now go play with a wet cloth for a while and stop lecturing people with more intelligence than you!

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  • Edna has finally lost the plot and its astonishing how quitely Miss Burton signed off this latest kick in the teeth for distressed mortgage holders. How in gods name do these two clowns think that restricting reliefs to those in arrears only will help an already disasterous situation. Perhaps they don’t understand that the majority if not all those getting this relief are currently on Interest Only options, in other words whilst not technically in arrears, they are only parking captial aspect of their mortgages. It would seem to me that the net affect of this latest bizzare decision will infact be to encourage mortgage holders purposely go into arrears to obtain the relief. The Notion the banks will suddenly wave a magic wand and help those who loose this relief is plane madness. It should be pointed out that the amounts actually given on this relief are only a percentage of the actual interest on existing mortgages and at best it might make up a third of a montly interest interest payment.

    So congrats to this wonderful government, this latest move will in fact make an already perilous situation even worse. Extraordinary stuff. The Hillarious Irony of this move is people are quite simply better off having their worthless houses repossessed and then applying for generous rent allowances of social housing, it seems to me Mortgage holders are actually penalised in every respect and entitled to Zilch in the current situation.

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  • On the day when MMcG shakes hands with the queen this appears to me a very lame and cynical attempt to dampen the symbolism and hope for the future residing in the gesture.
    Everyone is moving on except kenny, wasting everyones time with ‘quips’ about the IRA and how it’s basically the last governments fault that they can’t do quite so much now. He’s full of it! I don’t know how he sleeps at night.

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    • I don’t know how Amy stupid fg voters can sleep at night

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    • Just heard Enda’s jibe on the radio Ailis. He really is a toad. Here we are on an historic day and Enda Kenny pulls a stunt like that. While I am not a monarchist and have little interest in who QEII shakes hands with I’m glad MMcG kept his jibes to himself and didn’t remark on the thousands of people who were killed by her forces. There is a time and place for that and today isn’t it. Enda Kenny is not fit to be leader of any state. I wish to god he’d disappear before he leaves us in a worse state than FiannaGaeLab party have us in.

      Reply
    • mcbab 27/06/12 #

      Ailis. Capital letters for the Queen and Enda Kenny too please. Your prejudice is screaming out ! Shows how insincere you are.

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    • Dame edna no back bone kinny is as usefull as a chocolate tea pot. how’s that for no capitols macrab

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    • @Réada- I’m glad I didn’t hear it, I’d have broken something in a sudden rage! :)

      @mcbab – thanks for pointing that out, completely subconscious on my part. Gas, that. I’ll definitely be doing it on purpose in the future though!
      When enda decides to put his people first, I might award him a capital letter.

      Reply
  • If mortgage interest relief is cut for family homes they should be strung up.

    Reply
    • I believe Kenny claimed that cutting the mortgage relief schemes would force the banks to work with their customers to resolve any problems with payment schedules. Not sure how he worked that one out though.

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    • Is this like the kind of pressure you feel when the bums start washing your windshield at a traffic light? Personal insolvency will push the Irish deficit higher because the losses will be absorbed by the taxpayer. These mortage holders will only feather their own nest egg – they don’t care about anything else.

      Reply
  • Yep, poor Enda, when he hasn’t got an answer to a legitimate question to a question that affects all the Irish people, he retorts to his IRA/SF snide’s. Well done Enda, you show yourself to be one of the great Irish debaters and politicians of all time.

    Reply
  • Flex 27/06/12 #

    Once again the Gov lectures banks about Mortgages whilst ignoring complety their own mortgage book difficulties, ie Councils Mortgages etc

    Reply
    • Just curious if there are any figures on council mortgage arrears, we rarely hear anything about them albeit it would probably be lies anyway. Its been a interesting week of spin since the gov met their buddies at the banks, BOI stating how wonderful all their customers where and that they had written around a Billion euros of new mortgage business in the past 12 months (complete BS), PTSB too said they had been such good chaps, engaging specialist in collection management to help them deal with customers in Arrears? Biizzare stuff, I don’t mind sharing my own experience just yesterday were I had a review seeking interest only payments, arrears of less than 1K and a file of letters explaining HOW SERIOUS my arrears where. The Branch official was actually shocked at some of the letters, more so because my mortgage is very, very small. I must commend staff at Branch level but their HQ have their heads up their arses. The recent forced reduction in Interest rates at PTSB from over 5% to 4.6 % has made an enourmous difference. As for these figures re new mortgage business, I asked the question of the branch official as to when was the last time she handled an application? the ansewer! YEARS! As for my pitence of arrears I was entitled to park them for 6 months and then merge them into outstanding capital balance. A while lot of hysteria over nothing. It seems to me the Gov are setting us up for fun and games, passing the buck to the banks in advance of this new personal insolvency bill annoucement on friday!

      Reply
  • I never trusted Enda Kenny, from the word go i just knew the git was going to drag us down and keep us there, I did however hope I might have been wrong, not looking that way though , even sadder I honest to God cannot think of one person or party any better right now, ..

    Reply
  • Reg 27/06/12 #

    The article is slightly confusing in it mentions mortgage interest relief and mortgage interest supplement. The two are different. Mortgage interest relief is being abolished for all new mortgages from the end of the year and being phased out for existing ones. Mortgage interest supplement is a form of social welfare.

    Reply
    • Hi Reg – thanks for the comments; you’re right, it does switch between the two, but this is because the two TDs themselves switched between the two different payments in the course of their comments. I’ll tweak the piece now to make this clearer.

      Reply
  • Fagan's 27/06/12 #

    Maybe we can find the money needed in the bank account of Micheal Martin’s wife. Enough payments and donations ended up there.

    However, that was perfectly acceptable. In fact, I’m going to ask my local GAA club, if the raffle money I collect can be lodged in to my wife’s account. I presume everyone is at it, as Micky Martin pointed out.

    Reply
  • Sorry…meant to say “Merkel” loves her puppy…damn predictive texting!!! :-)

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  • Joey same here I bought my house 13 years ago it’s at the same price now..I am going on interest only for a year I fill out the forms in march and have rang the bank on many times and was told it will take a few more weeks . I have got letters to say I’m in behind around 3 k I ring the head office and am told to not mind them and bin them . This morning I get a letter from a legal company telling me I will be brought be for the courts . I have rang ulster bank 4 times to day and can not get any one to deal with this matter keep telling me they call me back . I do not have a BMW . I want to pay my house off I do not want any hand outs I just need a break to get on my feet ,, why are ppl on here complaining about ppl getting to much off tge banks I got what I needed to buy my home and it’s worth the same to day as when I bought it

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  • It boggles my mind to think that anybody would think Sinn Fein would be worse. 20 years of living on the credit card, helping to fuel reckless speculation at the expense of the real economy! Wooo hooo!!! FG and FF are the same… except that Sinn Fein promises to start a more sustainable economy, stabilize revenues, and grow the economy. Look what Kenny gave us: cut revenues and increase expenses!!! To get it to fly with the Blueshirts he’ll have to submit a plan that passes the pain on down to our great great grandchildren… and that’s assuming that we have 2% growth a year. Absolutely unconscionable!

    Reply
  • If Kenny is elected taoiseach again, I would want Connacht to be a republic again.

    Oh yeah, if Kenny can win despite worsening economic conditions, so can pigs fly and Connacht become a republic again.

    Reply
  • Mortage holders only feather their own nest egg – they don’t give a sh#t about the bank debts facing this country. So the question remains: why are these debtors only trying to feather their own nest egg? The country has a massive bank debt which these debtors helped shape.

    Reply
    • Fagan's 27/06/12 #

      It is not the Govt’s concern if they are featheringh their own nest. The Governments concern is with the welfare of the economy and the people. If the debt burden is not made manageable, then growth will not return and everyone will loose, and loose severely.

      It really is that simple, if you want unemployment and the squeeze to come down, then debt has to be written off. As is, it is unsustainable, the question is whether we default in an orderly and agreed manner or in a messy way.

      Our overall debt burden is nearly 2.5 times that of Greece. It can only end one way.

      Reply
    • Tim ‘mortgage holders only feather their own nests….’ How exactly? By paying a mortgage which feeds money and tax back into the economy? By paying their own way and not relying on government housing? and how exactly are mortgage holders responsible for the mess we are in? Last time I checked the banks that are at the centre of the economic crash were commercial lenders not residential. The mess we are in was created by the stupid lending practices and the stupid decisions of a handful in this country and you can bet that handful aren’t feeling the pain that the majority of mortgage holders are feeling. You can also be sure that the ordinary citizen in this country will have to jump through hoops to prove that they CANNOT pay, the banks will bleed them dry first before the ordinary person will be given any concession on their mortgage. The very fact that last night the govt met the banks to give them a preview of the changes just underlines how little has or will change.

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    • Oh dear. Has anyone ever wondered about the preferential mortgage rates given by banks in favour of their own employees? AIB (now owned by us) alone provided 1.8 billion worth of mortgages to it’s own staff, many of whom were part time developers and landlords.
      Should the ordinary citizen and mortgage holder be obliged to subsidise these preferential mortgage rates to bank employees while at the same some of these employees are at the helm of the institutions seeking foreclosures on the hapless defaulter?
      Now how about that for a spot of feather-nesting?

      Reply
    • The staff are still paying a mortgage, granted often at a lower interest rate or better terms than you or I but they are often in same position as rest of us, whereby they have moved on to another job, have had cuts in wages, have lost their job etc. we have to tackle this problem as a whole and not divide it up, of course there are people who will come out of it better than others but One persons debt relief is another persons cost. Its the begrudging that will get us nowhere. We need to follow the (little publicised) Icelandic model of blanket debt forgiveness before we can move on and start proper, fair and sustainable recovery.

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    • Just to add that I am not in arrears but I can understand the anxiety of people who are and I am willing to accept the cost of bailing out our citizens instead of the banks for a change.

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    • As long as the keys are handed back then yes thats no problem Niamh. But holding onto an asset for free while other families who mostly were prudent & lived withing there means now still cannot afford to buy a house in this still over inflated market cause people are holding onto all the bad property gambles in the vain hope of free write off’s is just disgusting and morally wrong.

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    • Wot market Martin? There is none. And I think that anyone holdin onto property as you describe will be waiting a very long time, the govt have no intentions of dealing wit this issue. Can I also add that people holdin onto prop as you describe would be a drop in the ocean, the vast majority of arrears are genuine, and I would even swallow the chancers if it meant we could all move on and give our children an economically healthy functioning country.

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    • Martin. I fully agree with Niamh and debt forgiveness Icelandic style. It’s not about punishing those that had to purchase houses during the boom or rewarding the prudent or vice versa. It’s about our economic future. We all pay anyway because we are all part of the economy. Something has to be done about crippling mortgages for ridiculously priced houses fuelled by the cheap money that was flooded into this country thanks to EU etc. Necessary to say in this mé féin environment that as I am renting I would not directly benefit from such a move but our country as a whole would.

      Reply

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