Dave

Equal rights for all people of Ireland in actually included in Article 40 of the Constitution.

This Minister has no idea what she is talking, as you have pointed out the Constitution does not include a defination of Marriage.

If I were an elected TD I would push for a vote of con confidence in her.

I know. The States also pledges to protect the family (which is defined in the constitution) but is quite happy to only recognize one parent in a same sex family,

Dave

That would be Article 41 you are talking about again you are correct no defination as to what a family is.

So I know what the Constitution of Ireland actually says more than our EU Affairs minister? That’s encouraging…..

very few things are defined in the constitution.
marriage has always been understood as being between a man & a woman,
& all men & women ( with a few exceptions) have the right to marry.

well no actually its not , by giving certain rights to one section of society in turn can take away the rights of the other , so by giving adoption rights and marriage rights to homosexuals you at the same time take away the rights of others to live in the traditional family unit that has been passed down through generations of their ancestors.

therefore whatever the situation is , giving rights also takes away someone elses rights

Homosexuality was always understood to be illegal until 1993. Things changed.

Same sex marriage will not give gay people adoption rights. Gay people can already adopt.

Warped logic is a terrible thing !

it sure is,
& i bet that you reckon that te guy with the …… ahem …… “warped logic”, is the other guy !!

Please Freebies.. Explain how allowing homosexuals to marry will affect anyone else’s marriage? In fact, please explain how your comment made any sense whatsoever..

Saying that homosexuals getting married will affect heterosexual marriages is like saying that someone else eating a load of sweets will affect your diet. The problem with that logic is that it isn’t logic, it’s just bigots clutching at straws..

Freebies

So giving people rights is a bad think.

Getting rid of slavery which took away the right of one human to own another human was bad. Giving women equal rights to vote and own property took away mens rights to control women was bad. Giving the state the power to imprision a criminal and take away his freedom must be bad.

Shall I continue or was banning child labour also taking somebodies rights?

Ah Carcu, you know that banning child labour robbed those kids of the opportunity to earn a decent living (oh no wait, they weren’t, they were just being exploited).. Perhaps it was stealing the factory owners profits by forcing them to pay adults a fair wage?

We all know that banning slavery robbed the slave owners right to exploit another human being by virtue of their ethnicity..

And as for letting women vote – sure that robbed men of the right to tell women what to do and ignore their wishes.

Yes, allowing for equal rights, it robs control over your fellow human from certain members of society.. That must be what Freebies is getting at..

It’s so true though no reality at all, now I bet you that similar arguments were proposed by people when black people fought for equality and justice
Their were people like the minister I’m sure who would be full of arguments that traditions should also have been kept

But intelligent people changed society for the better, we need this in Ireland, not this bigoted attitude
Which does nothing but create hate fear and misunderstanding

We don’t need this in modern day ireland

This is the most abstract contorted argument I have ever heard… For generations Irish people lived in thatch cottages passed down through their ancestors and then modern technology like bricks and plaster came along and took away everyone’s right to live in thatch cottages… Have you ever met a gay person have you ever just got to know someone that happened to be gay.. You would then realise that gay people are exactly the same as everyone else and just want to go about their lives like every1 else.. If you don’t like gay marriage.. Here’s an idea don’t get gay married

Don’t worry Freebies couldn’t explain that

stamper Macdouglas – “But intelligent people changed society for the better, we need this in Ireland, not this bigoted attitude”

yes , you mean like in the US where madmen are running around with guns killing everyone , is this the type of “modern” society you aspire to ?

also the real bigots are the people that wont consider anyone elses opinions unless those opinions recommend legalising everything.

Carcu …. getting rid of slavery is completely different to giving gay people marriage rights , the reason being is that gay people never had the rights in the first place where as slaves had a right of freedom before it was taken away and they were enslaved , therefore you are giving slaves back their rights which they originally had . I hope this clears this point up for you .

Er, it was the church that took away their right to get married (marriage existed before the church you know!). Until the church started spreading their bigotry around the world homosexuality wasn’t feared / demonised the way it has been. For example – Native American tribes held transsexuals and homosexuals in high regard, it was the church that ostracised them..

So really fighting for gay rights is restoring their right to be who they are without judgement from ignorant people..

Shanti , I dont know about the Native Americans but I know that in Ireland gay people never had the right to marry , therefore they have not lost any rights and so it does not compare to slavery because slaves are simply getting back their rights which the had before their enslavement .

Me too,when it’s said correctly I honestly ask ‘Who?’ No doubt about it it would pass,hopefully there will be no Prop 8 or re-runs

By name as well by nature!

So do I!
God we’re juvenile, but she’ll never be anything other than Lucinda Cretin.
I abhor her stance on almost everything.
How is she a representative for us?

We all do Dawn ;-). I think all people have to keep in mind is that a vote against gay marriage is a vote for her side. That should be enough to ensure a yes vote!

I’m not sure it would but for very different reasons to Lady Traditional.

I think a referendum would result in incredibly dirty tactics from those opposed to it. It will be an ATTACK on marriage. An ATTACK on the children and I honestly think it would start to link gay men with pedophilia. The idea of gay men raising children seems to be the only thing the opposition can come up with and I just fear it will be ugly and quite sad.

I do respects people’s opinions (mostly) but I have yet to hear any reason why gay marriage shouldn’t happen. The only thing that comes up is that if we allow gay marriage we allow gay people to raise children. Which ignores the fact that gay people do raise children and are not fully protected.

Honestly it should be pushed through with legislation. Why is it in Ireland we need a Constitutional Convention to decide if we need a referendum to change something that is not defined in our law? We didn’t have it for Civil Partnerships.

Dave – There could be some dirty attacks in the referendum campaign, but I don’t think the result would ever be in doubt. Three in four voters support equal marriage, the supports just too high, any No campaign would have to be extraordinarily successful to claw back that lead. The recent votes in America, and the debate in the UK at the moment, show the No side just isn’t having that kind of success. Mostly, their not even using those kinds of dirty tricks, because they tend to be counter-productive and make the No side look alarmist and unreasonable. That said, there probably will be dirty tactics and slander used by both sides, as in most referenda campaigns. But the biggest danger to passing an equal marriage referendum would be holding it as a stand-alone vote and getting a very low turnout for the Yes side, like with the Children’s Rights vote.

Well said Connor, some things should absolutely not be put to a vote, this been one of them!

Conor

Congragulations on your civil partnership, I hope both of you a happy and long life.

I must also apologise that this state considers it acceptable to not vindicate you rights under Article 40 of the constitution.

Many thanks Carcu. The state appears happy to take mine and my partners taxes but not extend us the same marriage rights as everyone else. Good job I am not bitter about it :-/

You are right Derrick. No more room for Democracy Enough of that kind of thing.

We elect politicians to make legislation on our behalf so that we dont have to hold a plebiscite for every single decision of national interest. If they dont make legislation they are not doing what they are paid for.

Human rights aren’t about democracy, they are about treating our fellow human beings with respect.

I respect the fact that there are some out there who are uncomfortable with homosexuality – no one is forcing them to marry a person of the same sex, or even to associate with homosexuals – but for them to be able to ensure that homosexuals rights are ignored or denied is wrong. No matter what way you choose to dress it up.

is she lookin for voes next time around

I’m sorry Connor you are getting red thumbs for your comment, good man I’m happy for your civil partnership all the best in the future and hope you will some day get married.

Lol ah I always get red thumbs from the iona instituters and arch conservatives on here! Well used to it :)

I don’t think her opinions are necessarily reflective of the party, her constituents or the public at large. She’s a puppet of the creepy Iona Institute and its creepy US backers. She has no place in public life.

Bigots are bigots forever. She doesn’t represent the opinions of her constituents.

How is it that she knows all about the irish peoples supposed negative opinions towards germany and narcisistic views on our neutrality but cannot speak so authoritively for our views on same-sex marriage? It smacks of an opportunistic politiician not sure which way the wind is blowing and not staking her colours to the mast as a result.

Yeah, I wonder how she would feel to be described as chattel..

I wonder how many cattle her dad gave to her husband to take her off his hands. That’s tradition too right? Oh sorry we moved on from dowries because progress.

As yes the “Institute” that supports another “Institute” that was involved in the coverup of child rape.

I think her and her Iona buddies need some pills, it’s time they all felt the love and loosened up a bit..

Is human biology tradition or can we change that too.

Ian, there’s more to marriage than biology.

No Ian, human biology is biology and nothing to do with tradition. Go back and play with your toys.

Human biology? It’s interesting because the overwhelming majority of biologists, psychiatrists, scientists, etc. are Liberal/Secular and Atheist.

‘Tradition’ is a stupid reason not to change the status quo. We ‘traditionally’ sent ‘at risk’ girls to Magdalene laundries…

Human biology? What sorcerous blasphemy is this?!?

It’s a logical fallacy too.. Appeal to tradition, “oh but we have always done it this way”, by the same token there is the appeal to novelty (we should do it because its new), both are fallacious arguments..

This is about human rights, neither tradition nor novelty should enter into it. If we are equal, we should all have equal rights to marry whomever it is we love.

Perhaps we should revive the ancient Celtic “tradition” of instant divorce. That was around long before our constitution. Wonder what other traditions there are out there that would get the Ms Crighton’s underwear in a twist?

I’d love to know who red marked my comment.. Please provide me with some reasoning as to what you are disagreeing with

Paul I’m straight but difference with me and other straight people i see you as you equal and that means you should have same right as me to marry no ifs or buts! How can I as a human being deny you because your gay the right to marry no human being should be denied that right simple as. We are all equal born equal and die equal love has no bounds.

No, it’s not required. But its the last desperate hope of the crazies that have been running Ireland for far to long.
I think it would be passed, but it shouldn’t be held in the first place.

There’s nothing in our Constitution to prevent gay marriage. In fact, you could argue that the Constitution’s reverence towards “the family” means that it’s unconstitutional to NOT have gay marriage as any Irish citizens being raised by gay parents (one of whom is unrecognised) are being denied their constitutional right to a family.

Thanks ispini i wasn’t sure if it was required.

It’s not required but they will hold one just to stall for time. They didn’t need a referendum when they sold us all down the river, the whole Lisbon treaty was so that the EU could do what it wanted with us without having to bother with them. So why now does Ms EU 2013 want a referendum? Thought her kind hated the things and thought them a nuisance.

James

Im a proud hetrosexual who believes in equality. However I would not give her one. For fear of catching what she is spreading!

I hear ye

Should say: Marriage predates any of the religions who are so opposed to it for gay people.

Seriously?! WTF are you on?!

I believe it’s called satire!

Lol well that made me laugh at least, but teasing the zealots with a post like that will get you in trouble :)

But Connor, it’s so much fun winding them up and watching them go!

This Government will only call the not required referendum once they know the majority of younger people will have emigrated leaving the older generation behind, in more ways than one.

Carcu is right, the younger generations are leaving in their droves, so a key demographic needed to pass such a referendum would not be here to support it.

Aidan I respect your contribution but I still think it is completely unacceptable that this woman was appointed with ‘special responsibility’ to Immigration, Integration and EQUALITY, being opposed to same sex marriage.

I agree, I don’t understand why that’s her department either or how she can combine her opinion and her job.
I genuinely think she’s just so out of touch and for someone who’s only 33

Why is that?

Same Finglas who elected the first of two openly gay TD’s?

Look at previous referenda and the results!

I think Conor is making reference to those area typically voting against whatever amendment is being proposed. I know Donegal has bucked the national trend in previous referenda, so maybe its the same with the other areas?

Donegal will vote No, always does.

Urban areas including all the ones mentioned will vote YES.

Blanchardstown is not a constituency, nor is Finglas or Tallaght?? They are all mixed with middle class areas in their constituencies – Castleknock, Glasnevin, Knocklyon and dont generally have high No votes. Dont know what you’re on about at all.

Lucinda Creightin is a dinosaur in a dress. Christian conservatives are thankfully a dying breed. You cant stop enlightenment.

Dont mind gay marriage but kids is a no no.

I dont mind you gettin married but having kids is a no no

Why?

It will pass, the biggors that oppose it are normally only trolls who wont be bothered to vote either way. Its about time its recognised, and people need to realise irs never gonna go away. Equality is the only way forward and I hope to be able to marry my Fiance as we shouldnt be shunned for loving eachother! Its 2013 not 1913

If that yoke of a woman is against it, then I’m all for it. She makes me cringe every time she opens her mouth.

Hate? you know a lot about that.

Awh, because the bigots are going to lose this one, they instead try and attack the media for reporting on anything to do with the subject.
Sad and pathetic. And a wee bit funny.

She supports civil partnership but opposes civil same sex marriage? Really. Her allegience to the Vatican and the Iona institute tells the real story. She is a nasty little Fascist.

She’s not a fascist. She’s a bit misunderstood and she’s never going to win the greatest personality of the year award. Leave her alone.
Relax! A gay marriage law will be passed eventually because the majority of people support it. Democracy will prevail.

….because….? *waits patiently for rational answer*

Might be waiting a while Chris :)

Now Derrick gay marriage feels wrong inside me but don’t get me started on gays adopting kids or whatever method they use! Men and women procreate men and men don’t! Women who can’t have kids adopt yes but a woman’s body is functioned in a way to create only some have an unfortunate mishap! to me it’s just disgusting but again just my opinion and yes it is allowed but so are opinions

Macca, you were doing so well – what happened? Are you trolling?

Gay people already have kids you know.. The only thing is that their kids are stuck in this legal limbo because our laws are stuck in the 1800s.. This means that the kids are at a loss, not because their parents are failing – but because society is. This is why equality is so important.

I never said they didn’t have kids! I said I find it disgusting as is in the post! I never troll! That’s you and most people’s problem here, because u go against the grain u have to be trolling!

My apologies, the reason I asked if you were trolling was the massive contradiction in your stance.
The only reason gay marriage is so important is for the protection of the kids that they do have. And if they are vetted by an adoption agency and considered suitable parents (as anyone looking to adopt should be) then they should be able to. Because ultimately the kids deserve loving parents, who love each other and want to give them a home.

You said yourself, it will have no effect on you so why bother over thinking it? You say its disgusting – you’re probably going into too much detail in your head – and there’s no need. Live and let live. They are not harming anyone else, just trying to live their lives the same as you or me. Why let it get under your skin so much?

Sorry – poor choice of words. There’s many reasons its important, I meant in context of your comment.. It’s late..

They are not doing anything to anybody else? True but tell that to all who vote no in the referendum

Who will vote no? My guess is the people who, like you, have no other reason than person distaste. Gayness is “icky” to you. They’re are NOT harming anybody else but you simply can’t get the sexual act out your head. Despite the fact, of course, that nothing that goes on in a gay bed doesn’t also go on in straight beds. It’s squeamishness, pure and simple. Your use of the word “disgusting” says it all. I’m only surprised to find that you didn’t use the words “I’m not homophobic but…”

We will see! I’d put a few quid on that it won’t pass!

Thank you for highly contributive comment without any given reason or evidence to why that is. Polls have shown consistently that most Irish people are in favor gay marriage. The extremist church called “Westboro Baptist Church” has a website called “God Hates Ireland”. Their claim why God hates Ireland is because of Ireland’s support for “fags”.

I don’t need any reason! Gays marrying in my opinion is not morally right either is gays having kids! Just my opinion on it and no many others with the same! Time will tell if referendum passes

I had no idea we had angered Westboro. I’m so pleased.

Whose Westboro and nobody’s angered! Lol

Macca. You don’t need any reason to state that you feel uncomfortable with it. However, that will not change the fact that many homosexual couples already have children, and that your poorly thought out solution (to deny equal rights to these families) merely hurts their children and society at large. It is your feelings of unease (and those that share them) that cause intolerance and hatred, and lead to bullying and harassment, sometimes even suicide.

You are entitled to your feelings and your opinions, but you have no right to deny another living, breathing human being equality.

If I’m been honest shanti I feel inside that its wrong but it will never affect me so in all honesty let them do what they like :)

That’s the thing Macca, as you say yourself, ultimately it’s not going to make any difference to you, me or any other straight person. So why does anyone bother opposing it? If two people are in love and they’re happy then let them have equal rights to protect their union and their family, we all deserve that :)

See shanti then it shouldn’t go to referendum! Even if it does go to referendum I won’t vote as it doesn’t affect me

You don’t need any reason? What? You stated “I don’t think gay marriage will pass a referendum”. That statement has nothing to do with your view on homosexuality or whatever. You don’t base a prediction of a referendum solely on your opinion or your friend’s opinions.

“Even if it does go to referendum I won’t vote as it doesn’t affect me”

It clearly does affect/bother you in some way otherwise you would not comment on this article to begin with.

As I said inside me I think it’s wrong! Then I taught will it ever affect me? No it won’t so let them do as they like!

I’m guessing your gay Kevin or have a family member gay?

No, neither. I do have a friend whose sister is lesbian and there are people who are gay where I go to school. So naturally it irritates me this issue along with other social issues that I am passionate about. I could never understand your argument that LGBT people are “immoral” as it hurts no one. The only people I am friends with that are anti-gay are my friends who are Bible thumpers.

Plenty of gay people have had kids and will continue to do so whether you like it or not and I bet they’ll raise their kids to be beautiful unprejudiced people unlike you!

You have one thing right Macca, there’s no need for a referendum, homosexuals should be allowed marry if they wish because it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to anyone else. It would however provide more security for their families and start to remove the stigma that leads to the needless bullying of gay teens.
I’m glad you were able to see that there is no need to deny equal rights to everyone regardless of sexual preference. No one expects you to feel at ease with the idea of being gay, because you are not. But to accept that others are and that that is ok, is far more tolerant than your first comment came across.

Nothing wrong with an opinion Derrick that differs to the “right” one on this story lol plenty have them trust me

That’s it shanti! There WILL BE a referendum on it and the question is why?

There’s nothing in the constitution that needs amending, so why would there be any need for a referendum? Massive waste of money when all that is required is legislation..

That’s what I’m saying! If this comes to pass the only way it will I’s in a referendum