By the way the “2 police” are part of the protocol of “sectioning” someone, even though I was never officially sectioned. As I was made VOLUNTARY when I arrived at the hospital. But Psychiatry have taken the word voluntary and reinvented it for their own purposes.

Robin, have you ever engaged the Psychiatrists from 4 years ago for an explanation as to what went on and why? Would be worth doing and might help either 1) your understanding of what went on or 2) their understanding of your plight (or both). It might help bring closure, might open more questions but might also help change how people are treated by the same centre. Just a thought.

When I engaged with a Professor recently (after hearing him say on radio that Lithium used to treat Bipolar and “anti-psychotics” used to treat Schizophrenia is MORE effective than the treatment for diabetes, which is a complete lie as, a) there is a test for diabetes b) some of the “anti-psychotics” (tranquillizers) that he talks about actually cause diabetes and have lawsuits against them as a result), a lawyer in California who is a Psychiatric survivor, and saw what I wrote to this Professor, said I might as well be telling the Nazis to be nice to the Jews. A bit of a strong comeback but some people have had a much worse experience than me. As he did in childhood.

Engaging with these people is usually pointless. I spent 2.5 years engaging with one and realised he wasn’t really listening. Just labelling. They also have fairly close ties to the pharmaceutical industry which seems to affect their judgement. It’s not like I would ever go into a hospital setting and discuss my issues with the original Psychiatrist who would not let me out to speak to my boss or made no effort to help me salvage my job. Or when I asked to go down the town with my friend for an hour she said “NO”. Even though I was “voluntary”. The bitch could keep you in the hospital. Anything you say or do is seen as “symptomatic” of some kind of “illness”. And when there new bible is realised, DSM-5, that’s when the fun will start. What is needed is more awareness by the general population or what they really can be like.

And by the way I have some of my records under Freedom of Information. Reading those records was very traumatic as there was a lot of misinformation in them.

I had a hypomanic episode from Venlafaxine after I had a suicidal reaction to Citalopram – but my shrink told me to keep taking them!! This is while I’m hallucinating and think that this isn’t real life and the only escape is to ditch this body that feels like a prison cell, but I should keep taking the drugs that have caused it – brilliant therapeutic strategy there..
When I tried to tell the doc about this they tell me side effects like that are very rare and not to worry about it?!
Er, there’s a black box warning – “may cause violence and / or suicide”.. SSRI meds are the one thing linking the vast majority of school shootings and murder suicide rampages the world over – but lets just ignore that shall we? Let’s just prescribe these drugs to anyone who even mentions that they feel a bit sad..
(see http://www.ssristories.com for more details on high profile cases where the person on a rampage is taking SSRIs)

I was fortunate enough not to end up in hospital, my father never trusted shrinks (and now I fully appreciate why) so he wouldn’t let me be signed in. Every person I know who has been incarcerated in a psych ward got more messed up as a result. Their parents thought they were doing the right thing, doctors always know best and they said that what they needed was “focused care and attention, and a break to rest and get better” which is fancy code for “we need to drug your relative up to the eyeballs so that the next time you see them their eyes will look glazed and they’ll have difficulty following conversations, they will be flattened and their personality that you loved so much will disappear as they turn into nice little robots”

Hospitals ruined some of my friends. They managed to change one friend from clinical depression to rapid cycling bi polar disorder – and when they had her medicated she was like a cardboard cut out of herself (glad to say she’s now medication free and doing so much better – and active with Aware and See Change), another friend is currently one of those “went in voluntary but has been switched to involuntary” people.. Since her first hospital stay a few years back she’s also turned into another person, she went in with post natal depression and has progressed to schizophrenia (which doesn’t usually come on suddenly in your late 30s..)

I have heard of Ivor Browne, I agree with his outlook, I went to the doctor because I’d had a load of nasty things happen to me and I needed counselling, instead I got drugs (to “get me into the place for counselling”) they got me into a place alright – they made me suggestible, suicidal, detached – and the second lot made me stop eating and sleeping and to become super intense, believing I was invincible – it was great fun because as far as I was concerned the meds were working and this was “happiness”, but in reality I was in denial, my life was falling apart around me, I was acting like a crazy person and making people I knew (and new people I met) feel uncomfortable..

When I found out about the big con that is psychiatry I cried, I was angry that this unproven (and in some cases extremely unsafe) medicine was given to me without a second thought, it almost killed me, I swallowed that muck on the fatal assumption that the Dr in their title meant they knew what they were doing.. Nonsense – they know what the manufacturer wants them to know, which a evidence based medicine has shown, is bullshit 99% of the time.

Psychiatry is the study of people who don’t need studying by people who do.

@Conor If you are referring to anything I say please be specific and I will clarify. I can honestly say that the trauma caused to me in the last 4 years of my life, not to mention the trauma caused in the last 40 years of my life, can not be described in words. I am linked up to other people through the internet and in real life who also have survived very traumatic experiences in ‘the system’. I am basing my experience on the Acute unit that I was in which is in the West of Ireland. In fact I have no problem naming the particular hospital if I have to. I am sure you may have helped some people. But others have been damaged in the system. Not to mention what used to go on in this country which was highlighted in the RTE “Behind the Walls” series. The Mental Health Act 2001 is under review at the moment for a very good reason. I am sure some of the staff in the hospital I was in are oblivious to the damage that has been caused by my “treatment” there.

I assume you are aware of the successful lawsuits against some of the drugs that are been used eg Zyprexa and Seroquel. These drugs may benefit people short term but long term are very damaging to people’s health. I was over prescribed these drugs and on them for far too long. Until I finally became “enlightened” and started to see what was going on. If you do not believe me, refer to the work of American Psychiatrist Peter Breggin and Professor of Psychiatry David Healy. Also Robert Whitaker has done a lot of work in this area.

Here is Professor David Healy speaking in Trinity recently about how pharmaceutical companies hide the results of negative trials. Scroll down to get the podcast: http://www.nursing-midwifery.tcd.ie/events-conferences/events-schedule/

When I eventually got my transfer to a private hospital in Dublin, I was allowed to go in the garden and the church. I could even go to Heuston if I wanted to. I made some handmade cards and went to lectures there. I was even able to walk to Heuston and get the paper. I was there for one week. But yet again the emphasis was on just drugging me and tranquilizing me, as opposed to giving me any type of proper talk therapy. I was there for 1 week but because I wasn’t warned of the dangers of stopping these expensive medications cold turkey I ended up having severe withdrawal within 2 weeks of been set “free”. The whole system needs a complete overhaul. There is too much of a link with pharmaceutical companies and their perks.

There is also a place in Cork called Slí Eile ~ which translates to Another Way. “Slí Eile provides housing and support services for people caught up. in the revolving door of the psychiatric system”. We could do with more services like this and for the implementation of “Vision for Change” (2006). http://www.dohc.ie/publications/vision_for_change.html

Apropos of inaccuracies:

“Finally a comment of objectivity and not personal perceptions.” Well, let’s see, do we have scientific evidence that such a thing as “mental illness” exists as a real medical condition? Do we have any kind of scientifically provable pathology? And so, do we have scientific, objective evidence that this thing, “mental illness”, comes along with “lack of insight” as part of the pathology? Nope, we don’t have the least shred of scientific evidence in support of these maybe not personal, but certainly under the circumstances no less subjective, socio-cultural perceptions of emotional distress. The idea that “mental illness” would be an objectively, scientifically provable medical condition in itself is a thoroughly subjective, socio-cultural and -political construct.

“But I can honestly say that in the last 4 years I have never seen a person involuntarily detained who wasn’t in urgent need of treatment and who didn’t benefit from the treatment.” Who defines what “benefit” stands for? Certainly, damaging people’s brains, incapacitating them physically, cognitively and emotionally, and shortening their life expectancy rather dramatically could be seen as a “benefit”. I reckon, it depends on the perspective. I for one, as somebody who also works in the field, and who has lived experience myself, regard it more an atrocity.

We have a govt that reckons that they can solve the economic crisis by putting our unborn grandchildren into modern day slavery to pay back their buddies loans.
I, for one, go with the oranges theory!
Ps I hear the lunatic asylum in Kildare street are looking for the inmates to return early!

Nobody is saying people can’t be ill/ distressed. However, it has to be asked is locking people away with medication as the only treatment is really the appropriate way to aid recovery. I spoke with a woman who was in a High Dependency Unit. She was not involved in any of OT or other recreational activities. She was well aware her mind was playing tricks on her and she said her mind was torturing her. She asked a very valid question, how being in a locked unit with only her own thoughts for company, was going to help her ? Even in her distressed state she recognised the need for distraction techniques. I recently met this woman in a garden centre where she was buying bedding plants foe her garden. Gardening has helped her to relax and gave her mind and thoughts a break. I am sure when I met that woman first, she did need treatment but their are alternatives available that promote full recovery and treat people with dignity and compassion. There needs to be more investment in counselling, music & art therapy and other discoveries. Mental illness can be an excellent opportunity for people to rediscover themselves and look at the dysfunction in society and their lives that led them to that point. The main point is though, no profession should be given that much power, as it is too open for potential abuse. Surely, that is one lesson we have collectively learnt by now.

Mad eejits!

Yes that guy who was hoping to invent a clean, environmentally friendly power source seriously needed to be locked up as he could be a danger to society! What a strange world we live in. And the use of that great word “insight” leaves me wondering about what sector @Stadler Waldorf works in. The word “insight” was all over my records. The Psychiatric industry’s favourite phrase is “lacks insight”.

I am lucky enough to have retained a good memory of what happened and have even kept a diary. And after reading “my file”, where talking to the staff was written down as “being over familiar with the staff” and where one of my families main complaint was that I was being “religious”, I do feel that the main people “lacking insight” was my family and the Psychiatric unit that I was locked away in. I don’t even get on very well with my siblings so why do they have the power to do something like that?

I never said that I should not have been in hospital or in come kind of environment that allowed recovery. My problem is the traumatic way in which the whole thing was handled when I would have spoken to a mental health advocate and gone voluntarily to St. Patrick’s private hospital, instead of the backwater that I ended up in. I should have been told that “anti-depressants” can trigger mania. That taking 10mg of Zyprexa and getting straight into bed would help. That is is not an “anti-psychotic” or a “mood stabiliser” but really a tranquilizer. Instead I got put on drugs for 3 years that have lawsuits against the makers, which led to weight gain and put me at risk of diabetes. {Never stop a drug cold turkey or change the dosage without consulting a doctor, due to withdrawal} When I just needed the drugs short term.

Not sure what you mean by conspiracy theories? If you are referring to mainstream Psychiatry,
it is one big conspiracy. It is only when you become a victim of the system and then step back
and realise what is going on that you can see why really is going on out there. I realise that
some people may have had a positive experience but mine was not. I went to my doctor
looking for help with panic disorder and anxiety and ended up with a label of “Bipolar Affective
Disorder” (BPAD) and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) from the whole experience. In fact the BPAD
was easier to cope with than the PTSD. Not to mention the stigma and discrimination
that I have come across in the last 4 years, including from within my own family. Scottish
Psychiatrist R D Laing would know what I was talking about (Rest in Peace). There is
the odd one that actually knew what they were/are doing.

I work in the legal sector Robin, and have made representations on behalf of people seeking access to their medical records because they weren’t confident enough to do it for themselves.

@Shanti – what about doctors who prescribe using generic drugs? Hardly pandering to the ‘Big Pharma’.

@Conor. Great. A lawyer/legal person. I could do with another one of those. The more the merrier :) There is one in California that I have contact with called Ted Chabasinski who is a Psychiatric survivor. Google him. I eventually made contact with my cousin who is a solicitor when in hospital, to find out what my rights were. But he was fairly brainwashed by the system. But I have “enlightened” him somewhat in the last while.

By the way, anyone reading what I wrote should not stop or change medication dosages without consulting their doctor. I repeat this where I can. I spent a month in hospital after stopping expensive medication cold turkey 4 years ago. I did not realise the dangers. But I do now. But I stopped taking medication 1 year ago. I still have a little bit on standby to chill me out or help me sleep, but the dosage I have taken over the last year has been minimal. I hope to be completely off medication very soon. I more or less am off it already.

I, on the other hand was full of confidence, getting my records. But a person needs to be psychologically and physically ready for what they are about to read. Unbelievable what I read and what was going on behind my back. I have an extra label in there that I was completely unaware of. I was given it due to a “flattened and blunted effect”, ie I did not show much emotion 11 months after the trauma and also was drugged up.

I would not really recommend that people get their records unless for something very specific. It was extremely traumatic to read. I suddenly realised I could not trust anyone. My GP wrote something that was completely untrue. When I questioned her about it she apologised and does not remember writing it. I will never trust the medical profession again, with a few exceptions.

There has already been the Shane Clancy tragedy when it comes to “anti-depressants”/SSRI. He was on the same drug as I was (when I became unwell). And died 17 days after starting it. His mother Leonie Fennell works tirelessly to highlight the potential dangers of these drugs and on her blog. Going on them and coming off is the real dangerous times. There are several stories worldwide http://www.ssristories.com and probably some in Ireland that we never hear about. But with the suicide rate sky rocketing and the pills been given out too freely, when will the people sit up and take notice? We put far too much faith in doctors and what they say. We need to ask more questions. I follow the work of Professor David Healy and Peter Breggin. Among others.

Both of your examples here are hardly proof of your friends to be “insane”. As for your friend who thinks his mother controls his bowels, probably she controls, or has controlled, something in his life in a rather intrusive way. The language of the unconscious is a metaphorical one. Interestingly, psychiatry claims it to be a “symptom” of “mental illness” if someone has difficulty understanding metaphors metaphorically, and therefor tends to interpret them literally. The way you try to (ab)use your friend’s experience here as proof of his “insanity”, you’re interpreting his unconscious’ metaphor literally. Just like the psychiatrists who labelled him “insane” do. Who’s actually incapable of understanding a metaphor as a metaphor, who’s actually “insane” here?

As for the friend of yours who wants to use oranges to solve the energy crisis humanity faces: orange zest contains highly flammable oil. Usually, progress starts with someone having a by everybody else as “crazy” perceived idea, and just because you have more prejudice than imagination and knowledge, for instance about the oil contained in orange zest, that’s not proof of your friend to be “insane”.

No, Marian they were both psychotic. The idea of someone else consciously controlling his bowels, the self isolation, the paranoia, the erratic begaviour… , the fact that he’s more rational now on his meds. As for the oranges, my friend had no idea what to do with them, he just bought vast quantities of the, and filled his house with them. No idea how they would answer the problems of a nation. He was manic – pure and simple. And guess what? He’s rational on his medication. Neither believes that they were unwell, but they continue on their meds. Everyone around them could see that they were. Don’t try and misconstrue their misfortune into something other than the fact that they were ill.

“Don’t try and misconstrue their misfortune into something other than the fact that they were ill.” Matter of fact is that the vast majority of so-called “mentally ill” people are victims of obvious abuse (http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060514024158data_trunc_sys.shtml). Matter of fact is also that obvious, physical and/or sexual, abuse isn’t the only way how to traumatize a person. Indeed, the really traumatising aspect is not that much physical pain/injury, but the emotional abuse that usually accompanies both physical and sexual abuse, and that also may occur on its own. Just as numerous other professionals who are trained in trauma-informed approaches I’ve never met a labelled person who had not experienced abuse, one or the other kind. You can try and explain these people’s experiences away, using empty, meaningless words like “paranoid”, “manic”, “psychotic”, etc., but the fact remains that these words do not explain anything. By calling these people “ill”, you’re blaming the victim.

Or 21 days is enough time for antipsychotic medication to begin to work for people in acute psychosis.

I thought that was bi Polar 2? That’s what they decided to tell me I had.. I was “depressed” to start with, so they gave me an SSRI which cased suicidal ideations (which led to attempts), when I refused to take the SSRI anymore because it was making me hallucinate they gave me an SNRI and that made me hypomanic, so I got changed from clinical depression to type 2 bi polar.. Mind you they tried to throw in Borderline Personality Disorder too..

Really, you could diagnose ANYONE with a condition from the DSM, it’s basically a book which pathologises human behaviours – not only would you find you had something, you’re likely to find you have many things (for the benefit of anyone else reading this – each disorder is a list of symptoms of which you need 5 to be diagnosed, no tests – just symptomology)..
New disorders are added via the world renowned scientific method of “popular vote”, and the bit that gets me is how do you medicate a *personality* disorder? Surely the personality is a result of nurture rather than nature??

Sorry, I – like yourself I presume – get very angry when the subject of psychiatry comes up!!

I have been told I’m Bipolar 1 (which is the most severe type), I had a strong feeling I’ve had Bipolar 2 (which is more hypomania/milder mania) but after watching a youtube video of Psychiatrist Patrick McKeon yesterday seemingly people who become manic on “anti-depressants” are Bipolar 3. That is just a nice cover up for the fact that “anti-depressants” can trigger Manic Depression. And by the way, Dr McKeon tells us that if I mow my lawn or paint my door then I’m “manic”. Really? I thought that was fairly normal human behaviour. I have learned not to take these so called “experts” too seriously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaAX2gAMGao

Oh, more inaccuracies: “until we have a better solution” As if there were no better solutions. Loren Mosher’s Soteria and Finnish Open Dialogue are the most well-documented solutions.

“I agree that the medication has side effects that can be quite severe for some people and extremely debilitating for the patients taking them post discharge but unfortunately it is the best science has given us for now bearing in mind the newer anti psychotic medications are a lot safer and with less side effects than the medications of years gone by.” 1. Science has repeatedly shown that there in fact are ways how to really help people in emotional distress, instead of just shutting them up: Soteria, Open Dialogue. 2. The newer “anti”psychotic drugs have different, not less side effects. They are no safer than the first-generation ones. On the contrary, the life-expectancy of those taking psych drugs has declined since the newer drugs hit the market. They have more severe side effects, and are less safe than the old ones.

“If anything under prescribing in severe acute units is now a concern as assaults on psychiatric nurses continues to rise.” Well, assault somebody in acute distress, with forced “treatment” for instance, and they will defend themselves. That’s psychology 101. If assaults on psych nurses are on the rise, I’d say it’s time for the psych nurses, and the entire system, to take a deep look in the mirror: something might just not be quite right with how you approach the people you claim you want to help. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268678

I replied to this message on Sunday but it was removed.

€20,000 was what the hospital milked from my VHI for my stay there.

I was not free to leave as I tried one day, when I did not feel safe, and I was told that I could but that they were free to turn me into an INVOLUNTARY patient! So “incarcerated” is a true reflection of my status in that hospital.

Modern “safe” drugs have lawsuits against the makers in some cases eg Zyprexa and Seroquel. Check out the New York times for articles about these lawsuits. I was sedated for 3 years on high doses of these drugs, until I finally became “enlightened”.

If what you say about the police coming to my house not being the norm, that has deeply upset me, as I know in my heart and soul that I did not endanger my own life or those around me. And I did not resist when they arrived, as I was on the phone to a mental health advocate and was been advised by him. I had made contact with him myself. I am awaiting on a nurse to come back to me to ask about that. And I will also be querying this with the GP. It just proves to me how dangerous the Psycho Psychiatric system is. And the way in which they abuse their POWER when faced with people in emotional distress.

But then I was well used to this all through me childhood. I watched my father been locked away several times from when I was 3 to 13. He was a gentle man and died age 52. Unlike me he never complained. But I now look back at his 20 years of Psychiatric abuse, including electric shock treatment, and see it in a whole different light. I also discovered what and who triggered off his first “episode”. It was partly the bullying inflicted upon him by my uncle. Who happened to be involved in locking me away too! R D Laing would understand this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8-UT3-0_Ms All my father probably needed was some talk therapy. Instead he was stuck on Lithium plus sedating drugs for 20 years. It damaged his thyroid. It seriously damaged my childhood. And it would appear to me that Psychiatry targets vulnerable people in society.

“A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest”. Check where these “service users” are in 1 year’s time or 4 years time. The brainwashing in Psychiatry runs deep and challenging it is a difficult task.

Making a Killing: The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging – Full
Movie (Documentary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU&feature=player_embedded#!

PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS CUT A PATIENT’S LIFE SHORT BY 15 – 25 YEARS!

http://www.drugawareness.org/recentcasesblog/psychiatric-drugs-cut-a-patients-life-short-by-15-25-years

An EXCELLENT article discussing the potential of extreme toxic effects of psychiatric medications upon people’s health! Although it has LONG been known that psychiatric drugs shorten life, few ever discuss it. Rarely have I seen someone, other than myself, speak this boldly about how very toxic these drugs are & the exteme gravity of the potential harm from these drugs! This is an article you will want to read for sure!

It is also an article that I believe every patient taking a psychiatric drug needs to take to their prescribing doctor. It is time for responsibility in medicine!

Short & to the point, but packed full of critical information that all patients & their doctors should have!! I will include for you here just a couple of excerpts from the article to give you an idea of what I mean:

“People who have been labeled seriously mentally ill are dying 15 to 25 years earlier than normal [1], and it is clear that this is largely because of the effects of the drugs they are given.”

“Before proceeding, it is essential to state that I believe that suffering people have the right to try anything to ease their pain, as long as two criteria are met – and they almost never are. Those criteria are:
(1)The person recommending a treatment must learn about and disclose to the patient everything that is known about the potential benefits and potential kinds of harm that that treatment carries.
(2)The person recommending a treatment must learn about and inform the patient about the whole array of things that have been helpful to those who have suffered in similar ways (not just the traditional, medicalized approaches but all approaches).”

See the full article here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-isnt-golden/201109/full-disclosure-needed-about-psychiatric-drugs-shorten-life

And the drugging of children with Ritalin and Equasym must be one of the most scandalous stories of them all. Seeing as it has similar chemical properties to cocaine. Messing around with the brain chemistry of the developing child. I watch a child on a regular basis and it breaks my heart to see what is happening to her. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/raising-the-ritalin-generation.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&smid=fb-share

“but I sincerely doubt your involvement in a professional capacity in psychiatry remotely resembles my professional experience.” Oh yes, me too, I doubt that! As somebody who’s experienced severe crisis herself, my view of, approach to, and experience with people in crisis probably is a very different one from yours and lots of other professionals. The question is, which view, which approach is the most helpful for the person in crisis? To decide this, I suggest a look at the outcomes: on the one hand, we have the conventional system that understands crisis as brain disease, which it treats accordingly. The outcomes are chronification of the crisis, physical illness, cognitive decline, disability, early death. For the vast majority of the “patients”. On the other hand, we have an approach like Open Dialogue that views crisis as a psycho-social problem, locating the “illness” not in the individual, but in interpersonal relationships, and that, accordingly, doesn’t treat individuals with medical interventions, but the relationships with dialogical interventions. The outcomes are 83% full recovery. And nobody has to be force-”treated”, because the approach respects and values the person in crisis and her definition of herself and her experience unconditionally. Offer people in crisis a kind of help that respects them unconditionally, instead of violating them, and they will accept your offer happily. But don’t be surprised if you have to make use of force, if all you have to “offer” people in crisis is disrespect, oppression, and human rights violations. Nobody in their right mind (!) accepts such an “offer”.