reduce for one reduce for all

Abolish property tax and cut spending on entitlements / wages / grants, etc.

Rural Home Owners would be very unjustly treated!

Household Tax …….. for what “local” services?

Rural Home Owners get:-
1. No mains water
2. No public sewage system
3. No street lightning
4. No footpaths
5. No cycle lanes
6. No buses
7. No Dart
8. No Luas
9. No public parks
10. No subsidised theaters

http://hometaxpetition.net

People need to ask for abolition of property tax. There are plenty other avenues besides penalizing someone with a roof over their head. Property tax is in effect a tax on jobs – just a different name.

My stamp duty figure , time of purchase is exactly the same as above …. I Will not be forced into paying more … Big Phil and co can go f**k themselves …

your management fees have nothing to do with this, they pay for your building repairs, bin collection ect. Pepole who own house still have to pay out for repairs and bin collection just like you pay a management company. so what’s your point

Silly letter in the Irish Times today, someone complaining about management fees in relation to property tax. http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

Does he not realise that people who have houses also have to pay for their own garden maintenance, driveway, repairs, insurance, bins, repairs etc etc. How do people who own apartments suggest that the lighting and maintenance of communal areas as well as insurance, maintenance, bins etc etc be paid for?

Reg it’s not just people in apartments who pay management fees, lots of people in newer housing estates pay them to cover the costs of lighting, maintaining roads and footpaths, public liability insurance for these private roads which are open to the public, mowing lawns in the greens, planting flower beds and shrubberies etc. These costs are borne by the council in more established areas but by homeowners in newer developments, including housing estates as well as apartments. How is it fair that we chip in for maintaining public gardens in posh areas, but when it comes to repairing roads and pavements only residents pay?

Why have the local authorities not taken over the maintenance of these housing estates Paul?

My comments were in relation to apartment owners as per the letter in today’s IT.

Perhaps if you reread my comment you will see that I cite none of your reasons. I fully accept part of the management fee make up is in relation to repairs, bins etc. This is not my issue. I am paying privately on taxed income my management fee, as well as local taxes for roads, public parks etc through income tax. I.E. I’m paying twice.

Various reasons but it’s fairly common.

Where I live there’s an underground car park under one of the roads so the roads, footpaths, street lighting and other costs are for residents to pay. Lots of developments had it in their planning conditions that a management company be formed and the local authority will never take it over.

Yes taxing the people who already pay percentage wise the most already in taxes? Why would you bother working hard and doing well?

Perhaps the person on a low wage should have worked harder to earn more money?

How much did the educational qualifications of those on €100k+ cost them? Is it really unfair to ask a little more from those who have most to give and who have benefitted most?

Tax the wealthy,they are the ones who are paying less tax than the ordinary working people because they have accountants who know all the loopholes to avoid paying tax

Conor do all people on a low wage not earn their money?

They do earn their money, no the high salaried people don’t all have accountants getting them off paying tax, they pay more than everyone else percentage wise if you care to look up Ireland’s tax rates. The people on low wages had every opportunity to work hard and educate themselves so why punish those who had the gumption to do exactly that?

Anne, I think you’ll find that Ireland has a pretty progressive income tax system and that the rich pay the vast bulk of the income taxes collected. No doubt there are some super wealthy who can pay accountant to avail of tax avoidance measures but even these have been tightened up on in the last few years.

With all due respect Conor, thats a bit of a generalization. Just because you earn more it does not mean you work harder. I have personal experience of this. Granted, the better paid may have spent longer in college alright.

Well in fairness I entered college in 2007, I could’ve got a well enough paid job at the time like so many other people did without further education.

But no I chose to live on less money while going to college whilst working at night and at the weekends. Life is a choice and those choices create consequences.

The people who chose to work hard and get an education should not be expected to pay for the people who chose to take the easy route and just take the job in the good times.

Conor Mr Fingleton, was well educated and well payed, still messed up,
Education in of itself is just a stepping stone, an education that is subsidised by the rest of us,
Senior mgt payed themselves very well in good times, example greater percentage pay increase under benchmarking , pay cuts now should see greater pay percentage pay cuts also for these senior mgt
Private sector pay for the directors continue to rise while laying off and cutting pay for the rest
Be fair

Actually if you look at him Fingleton wasn’t that well educated. Cheers for subsidising my education but I’m paying you back by subsidising your dole. :-)

Not my dole , never claimed in my life, thank god

I didn’t run for government and I dislike them all, FF, FG whoever, with the same contempt.

So should people who don’t have pebble dash and have to paint their houses.

Nonsense.

Modest!? Nothing in Ireland is modest… Most expensive car tax in Europe, most expensive (illegal) VRT in Europe, most expensive medication in Europe, most expensive politicians in Europe if not the world (excluding third world corrupt countries)…I can go on if you want…we WILL have the most expensive property tax in Europe and its only a matter of time, a few years of steady and stern increments, “Irish Style” of course and we will still have to pay for our bins and water separate lolololol….. Makes me laugh what a joke and I don’t k ow who to pity the most, the politicians or the electorate……

Well said

The point they made is that the property tax as it currently stands is modest compared to both our European and US neighbours.

If you want to go off on a tangent maybe you should go off and write an article for the daily mail?

@Conor
but do we get the same value for our money as our european and us neighbours.

No because Ireland spends far too much as it stands on social welfare and benefits, and not enough on services for those who contribute most to society.

Yes I agree Conor
my only problem with the household tax is that,
its anything but

Why are they having to spend so much on social welfare, maybe it is because they ruined the economy, ruined jobs, forcing people onto social welfare. Now they are continuing with austerity which clearly is not producing any significant growth(=jobs ) and are actually taking more money out of people pockets leaving them with less money to spend and in turn damaging the economy more leading to more job losses, leading to more jobs being lost. It pretty simple.

A tax that rewards Financial Criminal Elites, Noonan?
What next?
A tax that rewards Clerical Perverts and Pedophiles?

Julie for someone who claims to have a first class degree in Business Management, your understanding and comprehension of basic accounting and economics is laughable.

Again austerities goal is not to create jobs it is to balance the governments books.

Again there is a limit to how much money the government has.

Again the government didn’t take away anyone’s job. Bar some voluntary redundancies in the civil service.

Ireland is a small open economy that was too dependent on construction and its periphery industries for employment for most of the past 20 years. Once construction stopped, people lost their jobs in construction and its related industries. This had a knock on effect on everyone in Ireland.

You can bitch and moan about how it’s the governments fault but that does not make it true.

Conor, the problem with austerity is that it is clearly not working, it might not be the intention to put people out of work but that is what it is doing. It is a self defeating policy as it will not balance the books but put the country further into debt, less people working , more claiming the dole, less money in people’s pockets and down the spiral goes. All we hear from the government is that the country is broke and cuts have to be made yet 20 billion a year can be found to pay banking debts and bond holders , it is a case of priorities and the government has put bankers and bond holders at the top of its list, regardless of the social costs . There are other options to austerity ,they have just never been looked at, even the IMF now admits austerity has made the situation worse.

For a start , the government pays 20 billion a year to banks and bondholders is an outright lie.

Secondly what are the other options to austerity, which have been factually appraised and haven’t been made up by certain socialist TDs after a few house measures of whiskey.

Deborah, there is 12 billion hole this year excluding bank debt. We can’t continue to spend money we don’t have. Cuts have to be made and taxes have to increase. It can be argued that better choices could be made but there’s no getting away from it I’m afraid.

Agree. Politicians afraid to cut the dole, as it attacks the “most vulnerable in society” (approx half the population!). But look at what they are cutting: home career allowance, blind carers allowance, employment of modestly paid frontline staff, etc. I’d keep services and cut the dole, less unemployment and more sustainable. By the way, in favour of property tax as it can’t be avoided by high earners as with income tax.

Ok, but surely cutbacks should focus on pay (esp. high earners) and keeping people employed. Lower paid workers spend higher portion of income in local economy. Heard a quote: “in a recession, government spends, in growth, consumers spend.

Has austerity been properly appraised? The Great Depression? The rise of Nazism after Germany was made pay back every red cent from WW1?

Who’s on a tangent now Conor?

Dole was cut Thomas. But you’re right about the high PS pay and pensions. Not enough cuts there.

@conner
the reason our benefits are so high is the cost of living here is higher than the cost of living in europe (a lot higher)

The payment of twenty billion is not a lie, unfortunately , the alternatives to austerity are for government spending to stimulate the economy until it improves and the private sector becomes strong enough to grow the economy by itself. It is what they are trying to do in the US at the moment. This sneering at any alternatives from the left makes me laugh when you look at where neo liberal policies have gotten us

As I said Reg this thinking is just getting us further into the mess we are in, government spending did not cause this problem, reckless banking practices did.

Deborah, you said the government spends 20 billion a year on banks for dramatic effect which was a complete lie. Our welfare is way too high, things pretty much cost the same in the UK and they get a vastly reduced rate.

Also at Deborah there is no money to use to stimulate unless Coillte has discovered a money tree in Boyle forest park.

And yes it was government spending that got us into this mess, was pretty much Budget 2002 that led us into this abysmal state.