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Dublin: 16 °C Tuesday 21 May, 2013

Polish Ambassador responds to Irish Independent’s ‘Magda’ dole article: Full text

The Ambassador to Ireland has described the article about a Polish woman living on the dole in Donegal as inaccurate, selective and subjective.

The Polish embassy in Dublin
The Polish embassy in Dublin
Image: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

THE POLISH AMBASSADOR to Ireland has responded strongly to an article in an Irish newspaper which purported to give an account of a Polish woman’s life on the dole in Donegal.

Marcin Nawrot criticised the piece in today’s Irish Independent for its inaccuracy and said that it was ‘subjective and selective’ in how it presented the story.

The article purported to be about an account given by ‘Magda’ to a Polish newspaper about the benefits she enjoyed from the social welfare system. However in a letter to the News Editor of the paper, Ambassador Nawrot said there were a number of inaccuracies in the Irish Independent piece which could have been avoided through a proper translation or a more objective approach.

“In terms of her describing her life as “Hawaiian Massage”, at no stage in this article does she make such a statement,” writes the Ambassador.

“What she actually says is that she has completed a FÁS course in Hawaiian Massage and that she’s planning to open a massage business next year. I think you can agree that this misrepresentation completely changes the tone of the article”.

He says that there were “many other inaccuracies… throughout the Irish Independent article which could have been easily avoided if only the Polish article had been translated correctly or its content presented in a more objective manner”.

The Ambassador cites the contribution of many Polish people to Irish society in recent years.

“The decision to remain in Ireland that so many Polish people made in the recent years is a decision to make a valuable contribution to the Irish state by living and working here, integrating with the Irish society and being a part of it all in good times and bad,” he wrote.

“It’s impossible to imagine that this decision, sometimes a very painful one, is made on the basis of the unemployment benefit or other kinds of support granted to the jobless by the Irish State”.

The letter in full reads:

Dear Editor,

I refer to the article “Welcome to ’good life’ on welfare – how Polish waitress embraced La Dole-ce Vita” published in the Irish Independent of Feb 1.

Firstly, let me focus on the article itself and on its level of inaccuracy relative to the original article (published in the magazine Wysokie Obcasy to the Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza of Jan 29).

I wish to stress that the authors of the Irish article use the facts presented in the Polish article in a very selective and subjective manner. The subject ‘Magda’ states in the Polish article: “I have a big problem with being unemployed, I don’t want to live at the State’s expense and for that reason I use this assistance to allow me start up my own business”. I believe that this is the sentence that best summarizes the context of the original article and it is decidedly unfortunate that it has been omitted in your article.

In terms of her describing her life as ‘Hawaiian Massage’ , at no stage in this article does she make such a statement. What she actually says is that she has completed a FÁS course in Hawaiian Massage and that she’s planning to open a massage business next year. I think you can agree that this misrepresentation completely changes the tone of the article.

She also never describes the place where she lives as s***hole (in fact she loves it and is very passionate about it), she merely refers to other people saying that.

There are many other inaccuracies of that type throughout the Irish Independent article which could have been easily avoided if only the Polish article had been translated correctly or its content presented in a more objective manner.

I fully understand how potentially damaging this article might be to the good reputation that the Polish community has amongst Irish society and I ask your readers not to judge us on the basis of this solitary article. You have managed to get to know us well in recent years and you know our work ethic and our system of values which, I’m sorry to say, is inaccurately presented in this article published in the Irish Independent.

The decision to remain in Ireland that so many Polish people made in the recent years is a decision to make a valuable contribution to the Irish state by living and working here, integrating with the Irish society and being a part of it all in good times and bad. It’s impossible to imagine that this decision, sometimes a very painful one, is made on the basis of the level of unemployment benefit or other kinds of support granted to the jobless by the Irish State.

Polish people that come to Ireland are young, well educated, dynamic and ambitious people who make a conscious choice to settle down here. Their first priority in life is to make an honest living for themselves. I cannot say that people like Magda don’t exist – they do in every society and community around the world, including the Polish community in Ireland. On the basis of my personal experience with so many Poles living here, I can assure you that people like Magda constitute a very small minority of Poles in Ireland, and are in no way representative of the entire Irish – based Polish community.

The danger of an anti-immigrant atmosphere developing during harsh economic times is well-documented throughout history. I would hope that a major newspaper such as the Irish Independent would be conscious of this and take great care when fact-checking such a potentially inflammatory article.

Yours sincerely,

Marcin Nawrot
Ambassador

Read the letter from the Ambassador here (PDF)

Waitress told: ‘Go back to Poland’ after description of life on the dole in Ireland

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Comments (233 Comments)

  • Good to see this being being clearly explained, and good to see a newspaper being pulled up on it.

    Reply
  • ‘The Independent’ … what a rag.

    Reply
  • Ever notice how much of the indo’s content is sourced from other places-London times, A.P., Reuters, the guardian etc.
    They’re copy-and paste merchants of the lowest order.
    I mean, this story itself was about another story in another paper, and they even managed to screw that up!!!!
    Damned amateurs!!!

    Reply
    • Yep ..Easy Huh !! Ever notice how much of the indo’s content is sourced from other places-London times, A.P., Reuters, the guardian etc.
      They’re copy-and paste merchants of the lowest order.
      I mean, this story itself was about another story in another paper, and they even managed to screw that up!!!!
      Damned amateurs!!!

      Reply
  • Fair play to the ambassador for setting the record straight, disgraceful how the Independent allowed such a badly-translated agenda-filled piece through the editing process, completely undermines the newspaper’s credibility in my mind – how are we to know their pieces filed from other parts of the world aren’t selectively translated like this one?

    Reply
    • Hey, the Times will lie about you even when you write in English.. Remember that girl that took her life after her article and the Times muddied her name?

      The major news outlets are merely the Ministry of Truth. They rely on fallacies, weasel words and misquotes to manipulate via false rhetoric. They are counting on the fact that we are not trivium educated and as such do not spot all their little tricks..
      They are there to push agendas and nothing more.

      For that reason I like the user contribution element of the Journal. As we have seen, a contributor to the earlier story on this raised the alarm over the authenticity of the Indos article. I find you can learn almost as much from the comments as the article itself (and that’s by no means meant to diminish the journals reporting, just that a balance is far easier to achieve and is rather a large plus)

      Reply
  • Pretty impressed with the speed the Polish Ambassador got back to ye. Pity our politicians aren’t as efficient as this diplomat. Box of Ferrer Rocher on the way to Marcin Nawrot !

    Reply
  • Barry 01/02/12 #

    Selective reporting by a rag (Irish Indo) in my view,

    Reply
    • SeanS 01/02/12 #

      @Tom That’s a strange way of looking at it. It obviously isn’t that simple. Us not reading it doesn’t change the fact that others will, some of which will take what’s written at face value, which could be potentially dangerous. False shi*e like that shouldn’t be published, especially where it can colour perceptions.

      Reply
  • The Independent article was a sinister attempt at inflaming opinion against Polish people – gutter journalism at its worst and a win for The Independent in the race to the bottom.

    Reply
  • the Irish independent and inaccuracies go hand in hand . never let the truth get in the way of sensational rubbish …all the better if we can make it racist as well !

    Reply
  • The Irish Independent should be investigated under the Incitement to Hatred Act .

    Reply
    • independent.letters@independent.ie and info@independent.ie

      Make your views known people.

      Reply
    • Absolutely. This type of journalism is highly dangerous and as the ambassador correctly points out in harsh economic times the rise of intolerence to immigrants can lead to severe consequences.

      Reply
    • Very true Philp

      Reply
    • Why? If you don’t like what they write, don’t buy their rag. Simple as that.

      Reply
    • SeanS 01/02/12 #

      @Tom – strange way of looking at it. It obviously isn’t that simple. Us not reading it doesn’t change the fact that others will, some of which will take what’s written at face value, which could be potentially dangerous. False shi*e like that shouldn’t be published, especially where it can colour perceptions.

      Reply
    • Its not really that strange a way of looking at it. It is just a libertarian way of looking at it. I don’t need nanny-state legislation to prevent my perceptions from being coloured. Now, if it could be proven that this piece led to someone violating the rights of another, then that’s a different matter, but up to now, its just a pile of words arranged into a piece of sh*te.

      Reply
    • So Tom you would only take action if someone has the shite kicked out of them? Do you not think newspapers should be held responsible for what they print?

      Reply
    • SeanS 01/02/12 #

      It’s a bit naive to suggest that national media cannot influence peoples thoughts and perceptions, you may think you’re above it (which I highly doubt) and that you’re an infinitely free thinker, but like the rest of us, your judgement is only as good as the information its based on, and that’s to say nothing of how bias might affect it. By your logic, if every newspaper decided to pursue and anti-foreign national agenda and printed article after article with the same false inflammatory shite as the indo article had, anti immigrant sentiment wouldn’t change.

      Reply
  • Delighted. The Indo has once again, been shown up for what it *really* is.. An untrustworthy, lying, manipulative rag. They’ve been doing this for years. It’s not fit to line a cat’s litter tray.

    Reply
  • Irish Independent:

    Sometimes I sleep till noon and the nearest beach is five minutes away

    Original:

    Day start is always the same: go to the beach to see the sunrise. It charges me for the rest of the day. Once, I slept until noon, now pity that life.

    Irish Independent:

    Apart from her clear intent to take advantage of our social welfare system, to describe her home as a s***hole just adds insult to injury

    Original:

    Do I have a problem with the fact that I am on benefit? Wonders. Yes. I do not want to live at the expense of the state, so I treat it as a support that will allow me to set up their own business. In the afternoon we go for coffee for 3 euros. The same can drink at home, but the point is – explains Magda – to support local businesses.

    If we had proper investigative journalism in this country we would not be in the shitter, with the standards of the Indo.

    Reply
    • Is this gutter journalism not also teetering on in sighting hatred / racism? The very least they can do is to issue a front page apology. Its idiotic journalism like this that may encourage hatred and anger, the result of which can invariably lead to violence. Journalists have a responsibility to society, even those who write for a publication that could quite easily be sold as toilet paper or animal bedding.

      Reply
  • Shameful reporting from the Indo. Just like its sister paper Sunday Indo that employs ex senators like Harris and Bertie’s old mrs. I hope the new editor takes the paper in a new better direction. Employ young journalists who need a start, not the well heeled.

    Reply
  • Somebody obviously using Google Translate in the Indo office. How am I not surprised!

    Reply
    • Read the article this morning with Google translate and it wasn’t bad- immediately clear that the article someone at the Indo put together was written to get a reaction. Cue Senator Harte who was an absolute eejit to jump on the bandwagon- his Morning Ireland interview this morning was a disgrace.

      Reply
  • Be great if our ambassador to the Eu Mr Kenny stood up for us the way the polish ambassador stands up for his.
    Well done.

    Reply
  • The Irish Independant should be ashamed

    Reply
  • Gutter press! I know lots of non-Irish people in Ireland working the backsides off to stay afloat and contribute to the economy and society. To portrait this story in the manner the Indo did, smacks of the lowest levels of journalism and the reporter (s) in question should be sacked. It was sensationalising a situation, which was inaccurate, in the hope of fuelling fires of racism and social unrest in Ireland against non-Irish people on welfare or low paid jobs.

    Reply
    • Most non-Irish people I know work 2/3 jobs to keep their heads above water, many more work to save money and have done so for years. Good luck to them all, especially to our Polish friends who are very well known for their work ethic

      Reply
  • Lamb 01/02/12 #

    Was this deliberate by the journalist in the Indo? Surely.you can’t get it that wrong?

    Reply
  • Greg Harkin & Norma Costello ( writers of the story), what a low for you and your paper. Slack journalism and fast bucks.

    Reply
  • During the race relations troubles in France in the 1980’s there was a “Dear Mustapha” letter from Dreux which was alleged to have been written by an Algerian immigrant who claimed that life in France was easy, fantastic and that they (Algerian immigrants) were going to take over France. The letter was proven to be concocted by the far-right in France as a way of stirring up anti-immigrant feeling among ordinary French people. It worked to a certain extent. I wonder if there is a similar agenda at play here?

    Reply
    • Has to be yes. I think it’s a way of getting the benefits reduced for everyone but say it’s only the polish who are taking advantage of it. Some people desperately need those benefits and all the government see’s is a number which can be reduced to save money. They are so far removed from the people on the ground they apparently represent.

      Reply
    • What make Polish different from Irish in your opinion that Polish are taking advantage while irish desperately need support?

      Reply
    • @Mark I’d hazard a guess that if there is an agenda at play here, it is, like John has suggested, to demonise all those on benefits.

      @Bart You have misread what John has written. He is not suggesting it is “only the Polish”. He is saying that this is the impression the letter was meant to give. Two different things!

      Reply
  • This is what you get when you’ve got the Polish coming over here and not taking our journalism jobs.

    Reply
  • The Irish Independent’s article is inaccurate, distorted, selectively biased and constitutes a serious breach of protocol. The Polish Ambassador’s comment that such reports can fuel anti-ethnic minority sentiments and be potentially inflammatory should be well heeded. Hundred’s of thousands of Polish workers who contributed billions in tax payments and Pay-Related Social Insurance, have since left Ireland due to a decline in employment opportunities, and never elected to take out benefit payments. The Irish Independent’s, ‘Welcome to ‘the good life’ on welfare’ article, inaccurately translated and reported, is detrimental and prejudicial journalism which in way serves the public interest.

    Reply
  • For many years now, the Independent has been deceptive as an offering to the newspaper-buying public. On first impression, looks and reads like a respected newspaper of record. On closer examination, has the quality of a red-top tabloid.

    Reply
  • The Independant, jounalist invovled and its editor are a disgrace. Its like Tabloid rag journalism at its worst.

    Reply
  • paul 01/02/12 #

    the Irish Independent is to run a story tomorrow saying that the Polish Ambassador is claiming the dole whilst over here

    Reply
  • The indo should be made apologize for this, they shouldn’t be allowed get away with such and inaccurate and inflammatory article.

    Reply
  • Wouldn’t it be splendid if Irish politicians stood up for their people like this proud gentleman. Alas, from all I have observed, the very opposite is the case.

    Reply
  • Anyone have twitter account details for the people who ‘wrote’ this muck. People should be openly and calmly held to account for such “churnalism”. As should the paper itself.

    Reply
    • Agreed that there should be accountability – but I’d ask that people *don’t* post links to anyone’s Twitter/Facebook, etc. Don’t want to turn this into an internet lynch mob. Plus there’s the issue of exactly where the fault lies – was it a mistranslation? Was it in the editing process? We don’t know, so don’t want to go rushing to blame one person.

      Reply
    • Christine, well done for publishing the Ambassadors response. Be it translation or an editing decision, there can be no doubt that this is just bad journalism. When righteous indignation replaces asking questions, you know that journalism has just slipped another few feet closer to the bottom of the barrel.

      Reply
    • mis-translation? that’s very diplomatic of you Christine.
      Google Translate does a better job than they did.

      Reply
    • @Christine: You can’t by any means say this was a case of mistranslation. More of creative translation. I’ve checked the original translated by Google and no way you could write the article as such. See it yourself: http://goo.gl/oM8Rd. Single girl, former hostel worker, soon to open massage spa under back to work scheme vs. welfare leech, former waitress living with partner who plays golf.

      Reply
    • *diplomatic voice* I think the Ambassador put it well when he said the inaccuracies could have been avoided if the article had been translated correctly or presented the content more objectively.

      Reply
    • Better an internet lynch mob than an actual lynch mob though Christine.

      Reply
  • If the translation is as bad as this suggests, then you can only conclude that someone’s trying to stir the s**t.

    Reply
  • Statement on Good life on Dole-ce Vita article
    Today an article entitled ‘Welcome to the good life on welfare- how Polish waitress embraced La Dole-ce Vita’ was published in the Irish Independent. The article is quite inflammatory and injects opinion into report. There are quite a number of discrepancies in the article, which make it for incredible reading.
    The Polish Ambassador has advised, that the article presented in the Irish Independent and that presented in the original version in Gazeta Wyborcza are very different. The Irish Independent article says that ‘Magda’ refers to her life as a ‘Hawaiian massage’. The Ambassador says ‘she has done a course in massage and hope to open her own business relating to that area’, which is the very type of initiative the Irish government has been encouraging.

    The tone in the article describing the ‘wonderful golf courses’, implies they are getting their green fees waived, when this is obviously not the case.

    While on the one hand, the county is described by Magda as a ‘s***hole’ and on the other as an area of ‘beautiful scenerey’ . Again the Ambassador advises that in the original Polish version of the article Magda is very positive about county Donegal but that others, whoever they may be, have described it as a ‘s***hole’

    Show Racism the Red Card Co-ordinator Garrett Mullan said: ’It is unfortunate this article was published in the manner it was because the version in the Polish newspaper and that in the Irish Independent are very different from each other. Media outlets have a particular responsibility for accurate reporting, particularly in this current climate, as we must be on the guard against racist attitudes increasing within our population.

    Furthermore, with tens of thousands of Irish set to travel to Poland this summer, it is vital that they do not travel with inaccurate stereotypes in their minds’.

    Reply
  • Such a pity that more Irish people can’t speak European languages.

    Reply
    • Indeed

      Reply
    • Why?

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    • @Inda Kinny obvious that if there was someone at the independent who understood Polish the article would have been translated correctly
      chopper…… google translate is good for rough translations but it doesn’t understand grammar..

      Reply
    • Chopper 01/02/12 #

      Appreciate that Michael, I wasn’t trying to be an ass to Mensah, so I checked the original Polish line in a few translators (poltran, imtranslator, babylon) – all were very similar to google translate for that one line.

      As an aside, one of the journalists of this “piece” – Norma Costello – has worked for Polish newspapers in the past, so I’m very surprised at the translation issues in the article. It’s more likely based on the opinion of whoever edited it after her and what their agenda was… For quite a while now the Indo has been stirring the proverbial by pitting Public vs Private, maybe now it’s Employed vs Unemployed and/or Irish vs Non-Irish. Anything to sell a newspaper, eh?

      Reply
    • The divide & conquer mentality, Chopper. Keep them distracted & at each other’s throats. Like the public vs private sector act. The article is disgraceful. However, if good is to come out of it, it does raise awareness at how our welfare state is being abused by some of “all” nationalities including our very own Irish citizens. Hopefully our welfare system will be tightened up & properly monitored so noone, no matter where u are
      from, abuses the system.

      Reply
    • How do you know that more Irish people can’t? FWIW, I speak four mainland European languages. However Polish doesn’t interest me in the slightest.

      Reply
    • SeanS 01/02/12 #

      @Tom That’s a strange way of looking at it. It obviously isn’t that simple. Us not reading it doesn’t change the fact that others will, some of which will take what’s written at face value, which could be potentially dangerous. False shi*e like that shouldn’t be published, especially where it can colour perceptions.

      Reply
  • I held my fire until this piece. The journalist who originally wrote this piece, should be ashamed. Totally irresponsible, and almost racist.

    Thank god the ambassador spoke out.

    Reply
  • I think the most worrying thing about this article is that FAS organise and teach Hawaiian Massage classes. That should be investigated.

    Reply
  • CMD 01/02/12 #

    Just checked now (3pm) and the offensive article is still in the top 6 on indo app news items. No sign of an apology or correction. Rag publication and low life journalists.

    Reply
  • Once again, the Independent fumbles and drops the ball in its seemingly never-ending decline into needy, populist, sensationalism. The worst thing, though, is that these two reporters, like all journalists, are educated; they were schooled in critical analysis and objective reasoning. It seems this means quite little in the face of a ‘scoop’. Sleep well knowing that you’re fuelling narrow-minded prejudice.

    Reply
  • The Irish Independent has fallen so far in recent times that they have to look up a long way to even see the gutter… Credibility gone a long time before this story.

    Reply
  • Hi, guys. Here is the proper translation of the entire text in Polish newspaper:

    http://www.dublin.polemb.net/files/Poles%20in%20Ireland-translation.pdf

    Reply
  • If I had a euro for every time that the Indo published an article bashing immigrants that was based on lies half truths or misrepresentations I’d be typing this on a Macbook.

    Hats off to you Mr Ambassador.

    Reply
  • ‘Meanwhile Donegal Labour Senator Jimmy Harte – who was contacted by the Independent about the article – said he wasn’t given the full story and he’d happily take his comments back if the article is wrong’

    Just confirms my original post that he probably doesn’t even read the bills he votes for/against…Being a politician is a helluva job isnt lol… So someone tells him, the grass is yellow and he comments on it without checking the facts. Donegal must be proud of having such a incompetent idiot in office.

    No need to take your comments back Mr Harte, people of Donegal will take back their votes for you in the next election

    Reply
  • For those of you wishing to give a piece of your mind…

    independent.letters@independent.ie and info@independent.ie

    Reply
  • What I like about the journal is that this morning there was/is some really disgraceful comments made, I see none of these commentators responding to this article, no doubt they will be referring to the Polish woman in Donegal as a point of fact for years to come. There has been some real damage done to both Polish people and those people who have few other options except the dole at the moment.

    Reply
    • …and that “shit hole ” thing
      This is what was really written in the original text:

      “Donegal, a county on the Northern tip of Ireland, for some it’s the most beautiful place in
      the world, for others – biggest nowhersville. Wherever you look, green hills and beaches
      stretching towards the horizon, just like on a postcard.”

      Reply
    • I spotted one Richard. ;)

      Reply
    • I must admit that when I read the Indo article this morning I was really pissed off. Not at the Polish girl but at the system which wastes my hard earned cash. It annoys me that the moneys which I’m paying for the common good are being robbed. We all have to pay taxes and we all complain about it,. Wouldn’t you pay them gladder if you knew that they are being properly managed and distributed accordingly? I know I would.

      Reply
  • How hard would it have been for the independent to find a polish speaker to translate the article?
    The fact that morning ireland didn’t bother with 2 minutes research before carrying this story with an inflammatory interview with a an idiot says it all. Good man Jimmy, you may be a gobdaw but at least you’re an Irish gobdaw.

    Reply
  • That’s very poor journalism. There are plenty of real stories out there. Work a bit harder and you’ll find them.

    Reply
  • More demonising of people on benefits. The Indo has sank to the level of the Murdoch propaganda machine.

    Reply
  • This article is beneath contempt- and stirs anti polish emotions which are totally unjustified. The poles are a great race of people who work hard and have little interest in the dole.

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  • To be fair Polish workers have been good for the economy and have worked at jobs well below their qualifications. For God sake you cant tarnish all Poles as wasters based on an article written by a low class daily paper. Read the article and then base your comments on fact. Obviously reading is a rare skill among Donegal labour TD’s. Mr Harte would be better served ensuring all people in this State are treated fairly and with respect and keep his idiotic comments for the Dail bar and spend the money he would have spent on an imiganary persons airfare buying pints for his labour mates whilst learning the basic skill of respecting people. Donegal should be ashamed of Mr Harte

    5 minutes ago · Like

    Reply
  • The ‘Irish Independent’ have a lot of questions to answer for running this article, which in my opinion is just racist. If the reporting was accurate which it would seem its not, I still think selecting one of the many races that are now part of life in Ireland and characterising them as scroungers and dossers is shocking in this day and age. There are people who abuse the welfare system in this country and I would think the majority of them are indigenous Irish. It’s worth remembering that the reason people from Eastern Europe and elsewhere came here. It was to work in difficult low paid jobs that were available to the perpetual contingent of Irish people who chose to remain on the dole rather than fill these positions.

    Reply
    • The Daily Mail has been doing this type of journalism with an anti Irish slant since the 1960s in the UK . It appeals to the white middle Classes and helps to re-enforce there since of prejudice in the feeling that emigrants only come to a country to scrounge of the locals It is a hugely succesfull format and has turned the Mail into the best selling ” Broad sheet ” in the UK
      Independent News and Media just copied the style in there Titles here and yes it works .. Just look at the vile Anti Foreigner comments posted on the various social media sites since early this morning.

      Reply
  • I have e-mailed every member of the Parliamentary Labour Party and its press office. So-far I have got one response from Michael McCarthy TD. His line is that the journalism is at stake (which is true). However he doesn’t accept that Sen. Harte was reckless in making the comments that he did, as he did so on the basis of what was presented to him.

    I do not accept this, surely a member of the Oireachtas should know to confirm the accuracy of something before commenting on it.

    Reply
    • Good man Conor. Are you following my lead and jumping ship?

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    • @Réada: I don’t particularly want to, I’d rather fix the Labour Party than abandon it. I just can’t believe what happened today. How are we supposed to go out canvassing for the Local and European Elections with this kind of nonsense being spouted? It is difficult enough to defend Labour in a climate of public service cuts as it is!

      I must say the snotty response I got from their press officer on Twitter wouldn’t inspire me with any great faith.

      Reply
    • Conor this past few months have been a slap in the face for me. I’m finished with them. How they think they can keep credibility sleeping with the Tories (Irish Branch) is beyond belief. My heart was bruised before but it’s broken now since the budget. :-(

      Reply
    • Well done Conor, this will of course high-lite the lack of quality of our politicians. Populist parroting and spouting slanderous accusations just to grab a bit of limelight. Senator Jimmy Harte should resign immediately. I firmly believe that the Irish people should insist upon higher standards from our public representatives. Using the Indo as a reliable source of research to comment on such an issue is nothing short of disgraceful.

      Reply
    • I got a reply from Senator Harte. It still doesn’t excuse not checking the accuracy of the article first, but fair play to him for responding to me. Anyway, here’s the response:

      Jimmy Harte Jimmy.Harte@oireachtas.ie
      18:47 (20 minutes ago)

      to me
      Dear Mr Kirwan

      Thank you for your email and I made my comments in good faith on foot of an article from Irish Independent and I am annoyed with that paper who have a responsibility
      to produce the accurate translation. I was on air with the Polish Ambassador who said that he would have reacted as I did in the situation.

      My comments were qualified and I said that this person was NOT a typical Polish person and I know how hard they are working and struggling in Donegal.

      I trust you will accept my bona fides and I look forward to clarification and retraction from Independent Newspaper.
      Senator Jimmy Harte
      Seanad Eireann
      Kildare St
      Dublin 2 +35316183615
      and
      7 Castle Street
      Letterkenny
      Co.Donegal +353749111005

      Reply
    • I have received the same exact generic reply. But fair play to the Senator, i replied back to his letter, and he has replied to me within 20 minutes. I will not disclose what he said out of respect, but i was satisfied with his reply.

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    • Regardless of the fact weather the article was correctly or incorrectly translated. The proper comment coming from a senator should be something along these lines: “We are aware of the imperfections of the social welfare system. We will do whatever it takes to prevent its abuse”. His Idea of deporting that girl was just plain stupid. Is this his solution to the problem? Does he want to banish the Irish people who abuse the system too? Where would they go? Madagascar? Certain Adolf Hitler had similar plan in the 30s.

      Reply
    • Quite right Peter, if only we had sensible people like yourself in positions of power in this country rather than those who make poor judgement calls far too quickly!

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    • Cromwell had similar ones here too Peter. Please don’t judge us all by these imbeciles.

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    • I’m always judging by the best person I’ve met and not the worst one. Not even million senators Harte would damage Irish people’s reputation in my head. Ye are sound nation :-)

      Reply
  • Here, here Declan. I spent a fair portion of my morning attempting to comment on the article published in the Indo, only to have each and every one of them censured because I dared to criticise their illiterate journalists and because my comments weren’t the typical ‘we want twenty more years of Fianna Fáíl’ that the paper so desperately craves!

    Reply
  • Oh ffs. The spelling police are out again. Groan.

    Reply
  • Additionally please leave your comments to the useless senator jimmy.harte@oir.ie oh wait dont bother he wont read, as he doesnt read half of the bills he votes for/against

    ‘Last night a Labour senator based in Donegal said the claims were ‘outrageous’.

    Senator Jimmy Harte told the Irish Independent: “This woman is doing an enormous disservice to the Polish community in Co Donegal and to other hard-working non-nationals.

    “She has clearly taken advantage of Irish hospitality. I would like to see her go back to Poland and if we can find out who she is, I’d gladly pay for her flight home.”

    He added: “Apart from her clear intent to take advantage of our social welfare system, to describe her home as a s***hole just adds insult to injury.”

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    • Done! I would expect he issue a public apology also

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    • She might not have, Luke. But, how many other non Irish citizens, including Poles, take advantage of our over generous welfare system. Even the Ambassador recognized that some are taking advantage. Shame on “all”, Irish & foreign, who do take advantage & take what they are not entitled to. I am glad this story has been cleared up & double shame on the journalists involved. It seems some journalists think themselves above reproach. That has to change & the welfare system has to change to make it clear that “fiddling the system” is not on.

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    • I think he already did. He made these comments after reading the indo. He retracted them after he heard the true version of the story.

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    • I wonder who voted him in?
      This guy is a disgrace, even if the story was true his solution to the problem is to sweep the dust under the carpet.
      I don’t think that sending this girl home would solve the problem of the abuse of social welfare system. Is he planning to send everyone away or just the foreigners? Is it OK by him when Irish people steal welfare money but when the foreigners do it it’s bad and they have to be deported? Will he buy flight ticket for everyone who abused the system?
      I would expect a senator to be a little bit less dumb. Instead of thinking about some idiotic solutions he should work on a legislation which would prevent the abuse of the system so that the money would go to the people who really need them and not to those who are lazy. Regardless of their nationality.

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  • This story only distracts us from the real scam being run by those in power

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  • The Indo ate my hamster!

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  • Delighted to see the record being put straight but really sad that the Indo tried to stoke interracial conflict

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  • I emigrated from Ireland more than 22 year ago long before the Celtic Tiger was born and slaughtered. Like many other Irish emigrants abroad we have been warmly welcomed into our new homes. It disturbs me greatly that some of you folks at home jump to attack ‘foreigners’ at the first opportunity without properly analyzing the facts. I am glad to see the Ambassador clarifying the facts with an accurate translation. Hopefully the Indo has reciprocated properly with a full apology and correction.

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  • Since so many people in Ireland unfortunately blame immigrants for all our country’s woes, which is foolish when everyone should now know how this country was and is governed by the Civil service/political elite, this article required a bit of editorial oversight. Pat Neary who was being paid a huge salary to regulate our banks and was aware of Anglo/Irish Bank lending practices and thought nothing wrong with it and advised the previous government as such, when exposed as the incompetent/possibly corrupt ejit he is, the State payed him over half a million euro payoff, plus a massive pension for the rest of his life. Nothing will ever change in this country if we don’t aim our anger in the right place.

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  • I wonder how people feel now about what they said on the previous thread here on thejournal.ie about her.

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  • Thank you Christine for reporting this and special thanks to the Polish Ambassador. Personally am sick of the urban legends and irresponsible reporting that stirs up tension towards foreign nationals in this country.

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  • It seems the comments page on the original article is closed.

    Note comment rules: “Comments that are judged to be defamatory, abusive or tasteless will not be approved and contributors who consistently fall below these criteria will be permanently blacklisted.”

    Maybe they should apply the same rules to their journalists.

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  • I think an actual protest outside the Rat’s Nest of Lies, sorry, the “Irish” Independent, is called for. They’ve been doing this too long, they’re scum…

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  • Can anybody really be surprised that “Independent” writes garbage! Even the name is misleading, its not “Irish” or “Independent” in outlook. zIts a Blueshirt facist rag, owned by “Sir” Tony O’Reilly and The Moriarty Tribunal’s favourite thief! Look at who they have for writers!! Mr Arnold, what a joke! Major K Meyers-bigger joke! Eoghan Harris-Stickie-in-chief. The list goes on and on! Look at that they did to Liam Lalor!!

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  • Complain to the press council. Blatantly breaking principle 1,2,3 & 8 of the code of practice set out by the press council. They can’t ignore it if everyone who commented here dropped a quick e mail of complaint.
    http://www.presscouncil.ie/code-of-practice.150.html

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  • I went like mad at the other Journal.ie post @ this girl behavior, but now after reading original article in Polish language paper it’s hard not to not agree with Ambassador. Translation is very bad and some point are almost like deliberately changed, to stir up sensation by the Irish paper. The bit about Hawaiian Massage is disgraceful mistake on their side, which I could think of as a reputable newspaper as Irish Independent. Also indeed, she never called her Irish town in derogatory manner in Polish article. Where did they take that translation from? Although I still cannot support her way of life and not agree with her doings, but that’s kind of changing a lot now. The meaning of Polish article is somewhat around the lines that even on social welfare poor life a man could still be happy in beautiful Ireland, where she was not in Poland. And that she hopes to get back on feet soon and start their own business. The meaning presented by Independent is quite different and imputed very unfairly.

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  • Ugh, the Indo is a rag, but the rest of the Irish media jumped on this earlier today too – targeting poor immigrants is as lazy and dumb as it gets.
    The media bottomfeeders are whipping public opinion into a frenzy about this, and similar stories, instead of marshaling the public’s anger towards the real outrage, ie the effective swindling of over a Thousand Million last week, paid out to some faceless/nameless investors, who should have read the small print that says investments can go up as well as down.
    It’s so much easier to kick down at the less fortunate than to square up to the real bullies.

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  • Delighted to see FAS are going to solve the unemployment problem by offering such useful training courses as Hawaiian Massage

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    • It’s to complement the jet ski lessons…

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    • well the article did say she hopes to set up her own business out of it. I.d consider it good use of the course provided. If we are looking at tourism or leisure industries as a way forward for our economy we will need unique course like this.

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    • Just say for example there were 15 or so people in her course in a small town in Donegal and the same amount in every Fas course elsewhere in the country. I’m pretty sure there isn’t that much demand for Hawaiian Massage at the mo. Fas needs to be training people in skills that are needed by employers. My comment isn’t a criticism of this lady’s intentions but unfortunately, in my opinion a business venture such as this is doomed to fail! Or maybe I’m just pessimistic

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    • My sister-in-law has a Ph.D. in computer science from UCC and couldn’t find employment for several years because she’s “over qualified” or because of the shortage of teachinf/ lecturing posts out there. She did a course in “circus skills” and is now an acrobat teaching skills to children and the youth but is also very busy around Ireland preforming for festivals/ events. At the moment she’s working in Australia for a month in a circus school. She loves and enjoys her new career. I suppose my point is it will take a bit of out of the box thinking to get the country going again. Lots of people have done computer courses, ECDL, manual handling and are still looking for jobs after completing the course. Lots of people qualified in Hawaiian Massage may not be needed in one area but I’m sure their are lots of hotels, spas, leisure centres around Ireland who would love it on the list of services the offer their clients or could makefor a good self employed career. After have qualification will travel.

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  • Heer heer Rommel. LOL

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  • Crap paper like the rest, they only wrote this crap because they knew it would sell papers.

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  • Yet the word “shit hole” was never used in the Polish version. Shit hole is very offensive, and the word used in Polish text just means “a place in the middle of nowhere”

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  • Unjustified criticism, Abraza. On thejournal we are able to comment & I believe comments here & elsewhere have shaped the news in having the truth come out. It’s much more accountable journalism than the arrogant Indo.

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  • On a personal note, having worked with Polish people for six month or so. I have found them to be hardworking, genuine, sincere, honest, very intelligent, highly educated and lovely people. If anything, they seem to be psychologically healthier
    than we do. Bearing in mind that they have suffered the effects of being dominated by psychopathic regimes
    during WW2 and , subsequently by psychopathic regimes dressed up as Communist societies after the second world war, I wonder what it might
    be that we have in common. I do not have an answer. What I do know is that without the great towering genius of the Polish psychologist Andrew Lobaczewski and his groundbreaking work describing how psychopaths infiltrate politics and ultimately destroy societies, we would be scratching our heads wondering what is going on.
    So, thank you my Polish friends and from my own perspective, I wish you well

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  • We have unemployed people and unemployable people resident in the state, the former should be given all the help and assistance they need to help them find work, the latter need to be exposed as the parasites they are and need to be dealt with, both Irish and non Irish………..

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  • Good to see they’ve printed a corrected version today after admitting that “some” of the original article was “inaccurately translated”. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/do-i-have-a-problem-with-the-fact-that-i-claim-welfare-yes-3007769.html

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  • Heir Heir Réada

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  • xyz 02/02/12 #

    I feel much better after reading all these comments. Our emigration wasn’t a “lifestyle” choice too :) For a past few years many of us found themselfs in a hard financial situation and articles like this one doesn’t help at all. Papers like Independent should be punished for their mistranslations as they really might cause a lot difficulties to polish community. Lads, how many of irish reads this paper and how many can acctually see people reaction and comments like here .. not many. So most of readers might feel anger and this is not good. Magda is a good example and I believe there are couples like them…but not polish irish nigerian czech etc… it really doesnt matter were you from. But most of ppl will trying to work hard ,care about themselfs and their families, and I don’t believe that some might say .. I have a job but hey ..dole is better so I will quit today and enjoy my life living on the dole. . . Anyways I would like to thank to all supporters and people who can show their own point of view. Papers and TV lie every day and our mistakes and difficulties are bread for them. 23k views – well done ! Bless you all

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  • Because of the system we live in now…u have to becareful wat u say..ie the media…cos frustration and out of work can lead to tins like da london riots…pls media if u can sell ur papers dont make up a story….

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  • Are you actually believing this crap?

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  • If I was editor of the indo for a day … I would fire my polish translator, I would find “Magda”, (out surfing, no doubt) I would send my top investigator to find out how many polish are drawing benefits and what percentage of the community they make up, how much is going out of the country in child benefits etc…. and then I’ll issue an apology, if required.

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  • I gave up trying to reply on the Indo, Conor. It seems free speech is fine as long as u agree with what they say. Thejournal.ie allows a right to reply & that’s makes the difference. No, Abraza – Conor did not misspell with “here here”. Conor used the correct “here”. If u are going to accuse someone of misspelling, be sure u know what’s what. Now – who is “illiterate” to use your phrase ?! Have a nice day !

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  • tuba hg 01/02/12 #

    The fact is she is better off on benefit that working not that she happens to be Polish
    This is the issue the Government have to address

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    • Well said tuba. Our social welfare is inequitable as it rewards those who know how to live off the system. Follow the Scandinavian model which ensures fairness and more transparency.

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    • I can assure you as someone recently on benefits, I am far, far worse off on benefits than I was when I was working.

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    • Tom i agree. I too was recently made redundant and I can also confirm that welfare does not reward anyone. I am struggling to meet my basic outgoings (rent, food, utilities). I understand that it may appear to others to have financial benefits by claiming whatever we can through welfare, I assure you all, it is not so. Those who have ‘used’ the system long term are obviously experts at living on a shoestring…I have a new found respect for them.

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  • Lazy Journal.ie, lazy indo.
    Wake the fuck up.
    This is all simply scandalous and inexcusable.

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  • @ Declan : No, the expression is “hear hear” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear

    The phrase hear him, hear him! was used in Parliament from late in the 17th century, and was reduced to hear! or hear, hear! by the late 18th century

    Have a lovely day, you too.

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  • at least the discription of donegal was accurate #magda

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  • I would much prefer if Dumphy and his family left and we had more polish people here to replace them. The polish people are more productive and willing to work harder than the Irish. We ate a spoiled nation – look around at the amount of fat people who could not run to catch a bus they are so heavy. We need to learn from the polish people and adopt some of their behaviour and good manners.

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  • Just one question? If she is such a stand up person and has been taken out of context so much how come she hasn’t given her real name. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s appalling journalism to “translate” something so wrecklessly however, I would question her wanting to clearly remain anonymous.

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  • This explains why the polish refused to take on Irish workers in their own country in the last few years.
    The polish were given a very hard time and unfair treatment in Ireland.
    What goes around comes around.

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    • Michael have you got a link to that story? I’ve a few Irish friends over in Poland and none of them found it difficult to find work. Are you referring to another irish indo story from about a year back about an alleged signpost, saying No Irish on a building site? That story was found to be false.

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  • lots of polish do this i know some of them have jobseeker allowance and work…..(hand money )…

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    • Lots of irish people do it as well ( and other nationalities), so I’d leave out the poles bit of your comment and just say “lots of people in Ireland” instead :-) we need to stop dividing people. We’re all on this planet together and always will be.

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  • Very Ironic that less t than two weeks after the death of the great Aengus Fanning that the Indo do his memory the honour of printing a story in exactly the same style that he trained them to do.
    Both Aengus and Vinnie most be thrilled that there particular flair for selling papers and making copy lives on .
    May they R.I.P somewhere very HOT

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  • Hi Dannymcgee
    My post is based on information from polish friends who returned to their own country after the colapse of the Irish Economy.
    The polish economy was at one stage very active. Hence the Irish going there to seek employment.
    My observations are not based on media hype.

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  • GOOGLE TRANSLATION IS A BIG COD AND ANYONE WHO DRAWS COCLUSIONS ABOUT A NATION ON THE BASIS OF ONE PERSON FROM THAT NATION IS EITHER A FOOL OR A RACIST OR BOTH.

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  • this article and its responses proves the olde adage

    THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY.

    Reply
  • http://normacostello.wordpress.com/
    Journalist’s response to Irish Independent article…

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  • Im glad of the Polish are around, them boys are tough, sometimes trained, and will be great assets/allies when we finally/inevitably grow some balls and take back our country, and more importantly our Dignity as a nation.

    Attend the Turning of the Sovereign Seal, Éire’s 94th Independence Day! at the Mansion House, Dublin on the 21st of January.

    Let’s oust this provisional (unbelievable!? But true, look up Billy Maguire) government and King Geroge V’s parliament for Ireland; the ‘Oireachtas’.

    Just ask yourself….’what would (did) Iceland do?’…..because it worked!

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  • John 01/02/12 #

    C’mon, we all know there is a lot of truth in the story. Eastern europeans are still robbing the nation blind.

    Reply
    • You can’t paint everyone with the one brush, John.

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    • John is not painting all with the 1 brush, Jasper. He is raising a very important point that many are milking our welfare system. Including Irish citizens. Again – I’m glad this story has been clarified. That doesn’t mean we cannot question all on welfare to see if they are genuine claimants or not.

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    • Am, are we reading the same comment? : ‘Eastern europeans are still robbing the nation blind.’ He made no reference whatsoever to domestic welfare fraud. Neither did I; that’s not the immediate issue of contention regarding this particular comment. The issue is catch-all populism and its visceral, irrational, implications. If you feel opined on the other matter, however, I recommend you use the general article comment thread.

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    • Like there are fellow Irishmen, from politicians to bankers robing is dry.

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    • John,

      Care to elaborate on how I’m robbing you blind?

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    • @Maurice, if you are going to post a reply to a particular comment, please remain within the confines of the subject. If you feel propelled to voice your opinions on matters orientated around the country’s financial situation, and the subsequent ‘blame game’, perhaps you should express your thoughts on a more suited thread. I’m afraid ‘robing is dry’ as well as being barely intelligible, has little to do with John’s comment which espouses negative generalisation – a dangerous and erroneous device that has been employed throughout history by a whole lot of bad people to start some pretty nastty stuff; in essence, it lacks both rationality and the ability to comprehend the complexities of issues. So, if you don’t mind, keep it between the ditches.

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    • John. That’s a load of crap.

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    • Some Eastern Europeans may be doing what you say. The vast majority I have come across do not do anything of the kind and anyway, they are as entitled to benefits here as anyone else who has paid PRSI.

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  • EH WHAT!!!………………… FAS are now doin Hawaiian Massage since when??? and what the hell is a Hawaiian Massage!! She’s not the first to do and lets face it she wont be the last!!!!!

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  • Why not get a Polish person to translate the original article and put it up here on thejournal.ie? A lot of people are commenting who haven’t read the article. I’ve run it through a few translators online and it doesn’t seem totally inocemt.

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  • The Journal.ie, I’m disguited at the way you have handled this article. Your blame and run journalism leaves a lot to be desired.

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  • i dont know where the ambasator gets the idea they contribute to irish society thats a joke they send every single penny home like 95 per cent of forgein nationals that has alot to do with why the country is the way it is they just about live here for the benefits were so quick to give them even the ones working dont spend their money here its a disgrace and the sooner the better the irish goverment wake up and realise were been taking for fools by these people the better,,,

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    • Chris 01/02/12 #

      i dont know where the ambasator gets the idea that people who dont know what a full stop is contribute to irish society thats a joke they speak in one long sentence like 95 per cent of people who cand use punctuation that has alot to do with why the country is the way it is they just about live here for the benefits were so quick to give them even the ones who write dont use them its a disgrace and the sooner the better the irish goverment wake up and realise were been taking for fools by these people the better,,,

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    • Chris 01/02/12 #

      Have any evidence to back that claim up? 95% of foreign nationals send every penny home?

      And foreign nationals have a lot to do with why the country is the way it is? I presume your talking about the worldwide financial crisis that has hit ireland hard because of our reliance on property and our cowboy government.

      How did they cause that?

      Idiot..

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    • Yes Stephen you are correct the ambasatorrrrrrrr is an idiot.. The bloody foreigners send all their wages home… Damn parasites sponging on Ireland by eating our grass from the countryside, and sipping the fine rain when they are thirsty.. Instead of buying food at our stores

      How dare they damn it! They send money to other countries helping their family members..I could care less that some of them paid PRSI for past 7 or 15 yrs. These are foreeeeigneeeers they dont pay taxes. STONE them NOW!

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    • hahaha, dude, Stephen you have made the most intelligent, most articulate comment so far. You should be a professor or something. People would flock to your insightful lectures from all corners of the globe, just to get some insight into your insightful insights and your ways of thinking. You be smart man, you be bery bery smart man.

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    • BTW Mr Byrne, judging your profile picture, it suggest you are pretty well of sir. May i recommend a FAS course in nutrition, upon completion of that, may i suggest a course in respect/tolerance for other FOREIGNERS in Ireland that are currently paying their PRS,I so you may have sir a good pension when you retire.

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    • Paul 01/02/12 #

      I know of several “new Irish” who have bought homes here, who have children in Irish schools, pay taxes, buy goods and services and all that. There are also those who send some of their disposable income home to help their family and some even bought homes in their home countries. So what? How many more Irish would have starved if the young fella over the water hadn’t been a dutiful son?

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    • If they send “every single cent” home how do they live? What nonsense!

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    • Being Irish I’m embarrassed by Stephens comments. Ireland should remember how many of our citizens lived and continue to live in other countries for economic reasons and sent money home to support families. lots of non nationals have settled here with their Families and work side by side with us. I think its great because isn’t variety the spice of life.

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    • Chopper 01/02/12 #

      Just wondering Stephen, if you had to move abroad to work, would you not send any of your wages home to your family?

      Also, would you consider “non-non-national” Irish people who save whatever they can – and not a lot can – as not “contributing to irish society”?

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    • People sending money back to Ireland has fed many a child you amadán.

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    • CMD 01/02/12 #

      Stephen – what a load of rubbish you write. Parasites indeed! I know several decent hard working new Irish who do send money home in the same way that Irish who went to USA or Britain in 50s or 60s send money home to build up a small farm or educate younger family members. BTW if u are looking for parasites take a look at a certain dole office in west Dublin where those “looking for work” turned up in their pajamas. Office had to put a notice advising it wasn’t suitable attire. Bet they weren’t Polish.

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    • We did the same in the past, so what goes around comes around.Wise up,they are doing what any decent person would do,
      helping their family.

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    • Stephen.
      You fail at grammar, logic, rhetoric, as well as numeracy.

      •”i dont know where the ambasator gets the idea they contribute to irish society thats a joke they send every single penny home like 95 per cent of forgein nationals”

      Ignoring the absence of any punctuation, and deplorable spelling, it is hypocritical as you put forth a lie and a false statistic that’s clearly made up on the spot as though it was not a poorly formed idea. For you to question where the ambassador gets his ideas is the kettle calling the pot black so to speak..

      •”that has alot to do with why the country is the way it is they just about live here for the benefits were so quick to give them”

      What, you mean the benefits they paid PRSI in order to be entitled to claim?

      •” even the ones working dont spend their money here”

      They have to feed clothe and house themselves (and pay VAT) then there’s utilities, and whatever other taxes or outgoings – I think you’ll find that’s still a hefty contribution, what they may have left over would be sent home, in much the same way what you or I do not spend we might save. This is not ALL their money, a larger portion will be used to sustain themselves here. You are blatantly exaggerating to suit your agenda, this is known as an appeal to emotion. It’s a disingenuous attempt to garner support for your statement.

      •”its a disgrace and the sooner the better the irish goverment wake up and realise were been taking for fools by these people the better,,,”

      No, what’s a disgrace is your comment. There’s no fact, just an agenda based upon the spotlight fallacy (the mistaken notion that because a minority section of a group is reported in the press that all members of that group must be the same, it’s a relative of the guilt by association fallacy) the fact that it is fallacy means that it is illogical and therefore complete and utter twaddle.

      Reply
  • Hawaiian massage, a fas course in Haiwian massage, have heard it all now :-) someone fill me in please, what is a hawaiian massage?

    Reply
  • With a bit of luck they should be all gone soon you cant beat a recession to help flush the toilet!!!!

    Reply

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