Passage from holybibly.com

During the Middle Ages (about 600 years ago), the Roman Catholic Church at that time, decided to make the change-over from pagan religion to Christianity a bit easier, and therefore allowed the new converts to maintain some of their pagan feasts. It was agreed, however, that from now on they would be celebrated as “Christian” feats. So instead of praying to thwir heathen gods, they would now pray to, and remember the deaths of saints. For this reason the church decided to call November 1 the “Day of All Saints,” and the mass to be celebrated on that day “Alhallowmass.” In consequence of this, the evening prior to this day was named, “All Hallowed Evening” which subsequently was abbreviated as “Halloween.” In spite of this effort to make October 31 a “holy evening,” all the old customs continued to be practiced, and made this evening anything BUT a holy evening!

Sounds like he’s jealous cos the pagans have nicer gowns this season.

Not too shabby either for a cult that uses an instrument of torture and execution as its symbol…and whose main celebration centres around a cannibalistic ritual of consuming body and blood.

I won’t go into their history of burning non-conforming questioners and recycling recidivist child abusers.

And Varadkar has announced he wants their opinions on the new child protection referendum.

Look out kids..don’t matter what ya did…

Pagans go around dressed in black telling people what to do..whereas priests…..more drink!!

And the worshipping of trees at Xmas

It’s considered an Irish/Scottish holiday as it is historically observed by Gaels (Celtic). Scottish people historically come from a mix of Picts and Gaels who formed the Kingdom of Alba. It’s also popular with the Manx who are Celtic as well.

It’s one of the midpoints, this one being between the vernal equinox and the Winter Solstice. It’s also smack bang in the mushroom season, methinks this may have it’s relevance in the myth that at this time of year the gap between the living and the dead is weaker, which leads into the tradition of Samhain.

Not just observed by Gaels, Kevin, but also by the Brythons (modern day Welsh, Cornish and Bretons) who know it to this day as Calan Gaeaf in Welsh, Kalan Gwav in Cornish and Kalan Goañv in Breton. And the Manx are not just Celtic, but Gaels as well (albeit a Norse-Gaelic mix).

@Brian – Gaels are a Celtic people. Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Cornish, and Breton are Celtic languages. As for Samhain I know most of those countries celebrate Samhain but it is considered an Irish/Scottish holiday and is historically a Gaelic tradition.

As a Celtic scholar and a speaker of three Celtic languages (Irish, Manx and Breton) I know who the Gaels are. They are one of two current subgroups of the Celtic people. The other group being the Brythons. Each of these countries celebrate Halloween with their own customs. The Manx, for example, have Hop-tu-Naa, while the Welsh have their traditional singing for the Hwch Ddu Gwta (a tail-less black sow) and the tradition of boys dressing up as girls and girls dressing up as boys. Documented evidence shows that the festival was commonplace in Roman times, not just in Ireland and Scotland, but throughout the British Isles and even celebrated in mainland Europe as far south as the Alps (by the various Gallic Celtic tribes). The common theme in this entire area was the lighting of bonfires, celebrating entering into a New Year, and remembering the dead (as it was at this time that it was believed that the gap between this world and the Otherworld was at its weakest). Many of the traditions we have today associated with Halloween are not Irish or Scottish. Pumpkins are the modern day equivalent of the ancient Brythonic will-o’-the-wisp which comes from the ancient Welsh pwca. Bobbing for apples comes from Ancient Rome as the apple was associated with the Roman goddess Pomona. Trick-or-treating comes from all over the British Isles with its origins in both the Irish Láir Bhán and the Welsh Mari Lwyd. Try reading The Stations of the Sun by Ronald Hutton for information on Halloween throughout the British Isles. To say it’s an Irish/Scottish holiday is only partly true. To say it was a Celtic holiday, however, is entirely accurate

Either way English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Manx, Bretons, and Cornish people historically descend from the same people; DNA has shown that our ancestors came from Iberia (what we refer to as the Celts). Which I assume you know. I know it is a Celtic holiday but it is considered to have started with the Gaels (who are Celtic as we have said); regardless if the Celts brought it with them to Ireland or not it’s still an Irish/Scottish holiday. The only reason Halloween was popular in the United States was because of Irish and Scottish immigrants not because of Italians or people from the Alps. I like to believe history when it says it’s a Gaelic/Celtic holiday vs. it goes back to the Romans and now the Italians can claim it as their own holiday. The people of the Ireland and Britain are a unique people and are overall different from the rest of Europe when it comes to culture, traditions, and appearance wise. If one says it’s a Gaelic holiday then therefore it is a Celtic holiday of course. If were going to go back that far then we might as well add African traditions/holidays to the list.

Actually, it is now accepted in academic circles that the peoples of the British Isles are descended genetically from populations who migrated from Iberia. The Celts, however, were never a homogenous ethnic group. Instead, Celtic culture was simply a culture which was adopted by the native inhabitants of the British Isles and other territories (similar to the way the Irish adopted many English cultural aspects when we were part of the British Empire, including the English language). Celtic culture started in the Alpine region of Switzerland, Austria and France (La Tène and Halstatt cultures). I don’t disagree with you as to the reason why Halloween is today popular. Halloween was originally very popular throughout Britain too but lost its popularity after the early 1600s as a direct result of Guy Fawkes (although it never lost its popularity in Scotland or the Isle of Man). When his plot to blow up parliament failed it was decried as a popish plot. As the Catholic Church had accepted Halloween as a Catholic feast Halloween lost its attraction and Bonfire Night was moved to the 5th of November to coincide with the events of the Gunpowder Plot. If you read what I wrote I never stated that Halloween goes back to the Romans. I simply stated that the tradition of bobbing for apples goes back to the Romans and their Pomona holiday which occurred around the same time as the Celtic *samani and was adopted by the Celtic holiday (in a similar manner to how other pagan customs were adopted into Christian holidays). I don’t see how your “African traditions/holidays” fits in. They may have similar holidays and traditions (I don’t know) but they certainly weren’t at any stage incorporated into the Halloween tradition. If similarities exist then they are more than likely simply coincidental. You say it’s a Gaelic holiday, but that ignores the Brythonic element from which we also get many of the customs associated with Halloween.

I know that we were influenced by Celtic culture and that they weren’t a homogenous group. Being Irish I still consider myself Celtic; the meaning of being Celtic is associated with the peoples of the Celtic nations. So yes technically we are not Celtic by blood but what we consider Celtic really is are Iberian ancestors. Sorry I thought you were inferring that Samhain is originally Roman. The African comment was sarcasm as humans started out originally in Africa so where do we draw the line on which tradition belongs to which group; that was tied into me misinterpreting your Roman comment. I understand other customs have been added to Halloween but I’m referring to the holiday’s original origins. It is historically Gaelic and is referred to as a Gaelic festival. Just like Kilts are considered a Celtic symbol but they are originally Scottish not Irish regardless of Kilts being a symbol of Gaelic culture/traditions in Scotland.

great idea Deirdre. Me too.

The ring in the brack is banned now as ‘a choking hazard’ or were you being sarcastic?

There is a ring in the brack I bought , I had to cut around it .
Is nothing safe any more ? Ah well , back to my tea and Hocus Pocus ( On dvd)

@Rebecca The ring is not banned in the brack. I found two in the brack I got yesterday.

That’s good, i thought the world was going nuts! Sorry though, my bad, i heard some baker talking about the fact that he’d been working for years with the one company and they were no longer allowed put the ring in the brack…maybe just that one company though!

thank the gods for that.

It is no coincidence that Guy Fawkes and bonfire night in England is just a few days after Halloween,the gunpowder plot to blow up parliament was regarded as a popish plot. And to demonise the plotters and excuse the Ghoulish method of execution bonfire night (Halloween) was moved to 5 nov and renamed Guy Fawkes .The politics of the day.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks; do you think if Jesus ever comes back he’s gonna wanna see another cross?

Hear, hear

Of course they forgot that they merely created all saints day to try and take away from Halloween, but it never worked and they are still crying about it :)

The two days are related, it’s unclear what absorbed who how and where. It’s lost in the mists of time and theories abound.

All Hallows Eve, though, has to occur just before All Hallows Day. The clues are in the names.