I live in an isolated part of Clare serviced by a taxi. Simple as, its there if you want to use it, not expensive. Loneliniess isnt caused by pub withdrawal.
In fact some of the pubs here are the most godforsaken places on earth, with proprietors that make Mick the Barman look like Nelson Mandela.
My suspicion, enhanced by the kerry origins of this story, is that this is more Vintners bullshit.

exactly

That is exactly the problem, although buses probably aren’t the answer. Minibuses, each covering a small area, would be much more flexible. They should operate like taxis so you phone them up and they give you an estimated time when a minibus will be with you. This gives the operator the chance to do multiple pick-ups/drop-offs and prevents the wasteful driving around that buses do just to keep to a schedule. Of course, they could also offer scheduled runs for particularly busy times/routes.

And it would still be a commercial service, albeit subsidised (perhaps subsidise the cost of the vehicles). Ideally it should be run locally and not by a large or semi-state body so they maintain some sense of community responsibility.

Spot on there Jamie. Perhaps they (‘government’) will use some of this new household charge towards subsidising more public transport schemes in rural areas seeing we’re told this charge will go towards paying for ‘local services’…..doubt this will happen though

Great idea Jamie! Would create employment and lower road fatalities, plus all those people would get to not their pints without worry about the trip home.

‘Enjoy their pint’ I meant! Doh!

The most sensible posting I’ve read so far Jessie.

Or people in what we call the local community could offer someone a lift…

Jessie very much like your idea. When I go out at home where my parents live in Laois. A taxi home is over 20 euro . A cheaper local taxi service in rural areas would be very worthwhile . Yes there are people doing it illegally and I have used them occasionally . I don’t care. Saves a fortune and it’s a realistic price home . Well done on your comment I think rural politicians should look into this.

Nobody is talking about falling off a bar stool were talking about 2 pints and your a “scumbag over the limit criminal ” whose driving a vehicle..

Alot of rural publicans do this already either with a mini bus or their own car.Their business would not survive otherwise.But some people just refuse to give up the car no matter what.I live in the country go to my local 2miles away and if i have few beers leave the car behind,collect it next day after been dropped home by pub owner.A neighbour over 60 has his few beers refuses a lift and drives home regularly.

Very expensive to get that done as the van would need to be licenced as a limousine by the Taxi Regulator at €1,045 for the first licence and insured as a hackney which is another €1,500-2,000 a year as well as yearly NCT’s regardless of age of vehicle. I don’t think the rural pub trade is busy enough to afford that outlay…

I’ve a horse outside!!!!!!!

This is another argument against one-off housing in rural areas. If they lived in a village they could walk to and from the pub and drink as much as they liked. Also, it’s crazy how dependent we are on alcohol in this country. A choice between getting langered and suicide? Give me a break.

He has to make a living too !!!!!!

People go to the pub to have a drink, an alcoholic one.

I think I’d prefer to go to the pub and NOT drink if the only other option is to sit at home alone (and I do regularly). Also have people in rural Ireland never heard of designated drivers.

Michael, It’s hard to find a designated driver up the side of a Kerry mountain!

John, if one is to decide to live “up the side of a mountain in Kerry” as you put it, one has to assume that there be a certain amount of isolation and lack of services associated with such a lifestyle, that should not excuse someone from the abiding by the laws the land.

I think you may have missed the point I was trying to get at. There are many other solutions to the problem of socialising in rural Ireland, I know of towns where groups of publicans have gotten together to offer shuttle bus services to their locals, and one pub in particular where the owner and his wife will drive people to and from the premises at any time.

Relaxing of our right strict drink driving laws is not the answer, especially if one must drive home “up the side of a mountain”. I’m sure those roads are none to safe at the best of times.

I think to be honest Yvonne the vast majority of people agree that we need the drink driving laws to be implemented and I certainly am not justifying anybody drinking and driving, I think the bulk of the discussion here is about rural people getting home from the pubs in a safe manner for themselves and more importantly all other road users. I don’t think the coroner was suggesting that the law be changed to facilitate people in rural Ireland-it isn’t clear from the piece above exactly what the point he was making was, but I personally believe that it is a question of providing some sort of a transport service in rural Ireland, whether that be done privately by the publican, the local community or the government is what should be up for discussion here. I live in rural Ireland and I know many elderly people who’s main outings are Mass and the pub. I’m not talking about people getting legless here but just having a few sociable drinks a couple of nights a week, I find it amusing when I read the posts suggesting the pubs provide proper coffee machines snacks etc, the likelihood of a 70 or 80 year old man giving up his pint of Guinness for a latte and some tapas is about as likely as I winning the euromillions tonight.

Mary, “I’m not talking about people getting legless here but just having a few sociable drinks a couple of nights a week” is pretty undefensible talk. The whole point is that you don’t *have* to be paralytic with drink to be a danger on the roads. You ‘just’ want people to be able to drink-drive twice a week (104 times a year!). Well, *that’s* okay, then!

Yes, I think we’re all agreed urban transportation needs to be improved. But the current deficiencies in the service provide no excuse or justification at all for drink driving.

you don’t drink, hahaha dont make me laugh!!! The way you criticise sound like someone under the influence, big time,joker!!!

here.here…well said. publicans need to move with the times instead of moaning that laws designed to save lives are costing them.money! coffee non alcoholic beers..promotional prices on minerals for designated drivers.

Nothing wrong with non alcoholic beer but the reason most people have a few drinks is because it makes them more relaxed and sociable and I know that, if an elderly man in particular, has some worry or problem and goes to the local pub to meet up with a few pals in all likelihood he will talk about his problem AFTER a couple of drinks, that is a fact of life………drink makes us more chatty and more likely to talk to others. I’m not talking about somebody getting legless here, just having a few sociable drinks. I know people who’ve never drank find it hard to comprehend why anybody would actually want to drink, well I believe for most moderate drinkers it is the social aspect and the fact that it allows people to be more open and perhaps talk about things that they feel they wouldn’t be able to do without the extra little prop that alcohol gives. Maybe that is a good or a bad thing who knows? but it is the way life is and surely instead of trying to change everybody living in rural Ireland to become teetotalers-which in turn would mean there would be no pubs to go to anyway!!! wouldn’t it be much better to try and work from where we are and find a solution to the problem of getting people home safely?

Just as a side point, Mary, recent studies have discovered that the “relaxed and sociable” effect of alcohol is all in people’s heads. Where people were given non-alcoholic drinks but led to believe they were alcoholic they behaved in that relaxed and sociable way; while people given alcoholic drinks but led to believe they were non-alcoholic suffered the impairments of being drunk without actually becoming more sociable.

Now, I say that’s a side point, because there’s no *easy* answer coming out of that. But it does point out that there’s no physical need for people to be getting drunk in the pub to have a good time — it’s the cultural norm of “I need a drink to relax” that needs to change (a long and difficult task)

tryed that and after 3 bottles it gives you the shits

Ha Ha the likes of you cant be taken serious,stick to the issue’s ,or did you have to much to drink,AGAIN!!!!!

I do not drink alcohol…slainte!

At least 99% of the cars in Rural areas have lights on them !!!

@Jimmy, that’s not the point… The fact is that rural roads are far more dangerous that one’s in urban areas… mainly because there’s often no pathways for pedestrians, or streetlamps. Also, the speed limit is higher outside of towns. Therefore, there definitely should not be an acception to the drink driving law. However, there should be something done as for a lot of people its simply not possible to walk to their nearest pub. A good solution might be if there was an organised- cheap shuttle service that could bring people home. Regular taxis in rural areas cost so much more than in the likes of Dublin.

Strangly enough the most people walking dark country roads at night are those walking home from the pub. I do not want to be seen to be promoting drink driving, because i don’t.

yes

Glad its not you making laws

Fine point well made.

No offense but your rant there is equally as close minded as the types of rants you hear from the people you’re giving out about.

There is only one answer to this, as the laws are probably for the better and safety of others i am inclined now to think that the responsibility of the persons who give out these laws should also provide transport cabs at sceduals to the rural community,it is only fair that the freedom of having a pint at the we local pub is not taken from people in rural areas,i am sure they have other interests other than drink,but after a tough days work or even sitting at home all day with age,,a pint and a bit of craic with the other locals is a good way to unwind,a service should b provided

You’re right, but the problem isn’t the drink driving laws but the lack of acceptable rural transport. Fixing that problem would have a host of advantages far beyond bringing old fellas home from the pub.

Well said Deborah! Esp bit about functioning alcoholics.

Your a sad individual you’ve never had a drink yourself or had friends………………

I think you do not what you are talking about, if you were a sixtysomething farmer, single and living in rural ireland you might find life a bit more limiting than it is currently. The pub is the way Irish people socialize, like it or not, other activities are on the fringe, hopefully that will change sometime soon.

So, Frank & John, the options are – go to the pub for alcohol. Or stay home, get depressed, take your life. What kind of strange reality is that?

LOL Michael option 1 for me….opt 2 is too depressing to think about

Give me an example of something that can be done in rural ireland, socially, by old lads, living in places where the local amenities likely consist (in their entirety) of a pub, a post office/shop, and another pub then.

“Do something else” is a bullshit solution used by people who’se heads are completely up there own arses, because we’re talking about situations where there’s nothing else to bloody do.

I’m not in favour of drink driving law exceptions, but I’m not going to belittle these people. The lack of viable and extent social alternatives to sitting around and getting drunk is a major problem in this country. I would be surprised if most of those people who suggest ‘doing something else’ didn’t spend at least one evening in the pub per week.

Barr freak accidents, Drink driving is the lowest cause of deaths in the country= Fact. 57 percent are single car crashes where only the driver is killed= Fact. 1 of 3 crashes is alcohol related which to me would indicate that bad driving is twice as likely to get you in an accident as drink driving. suicide is a much bigger problem than drink driving.
Quote-They should find a way to socialize that doesn’t include alcohol as a must. what happened to free will. if they have a fuckin pint or ten they should be allowed if it makes them happy. this is slowly becoming a complete nanny state.
i feel sorry for anyone whos lost someone to an accident but every smoker is risking their life, every fat person is risking their life, driving your fuckin car is killing the ozone etc and naturally their risking their loved ones happiness aswell. thats life. welcome to earth.

I’d rathe die young and free than old never having been free.

With a personality like yours Paul Kealy,the only stars you will see are the ones you get after someone knocks you out!!!!!

Harsh…very harsh. I am a man of love, not violence.

@Louisa….I am not ageist, I concur. However, I do not think that social integration or any societal shift in attitudes towards the elderly can be found in the bottom of a glass. There is a whole periphery to be examined, not just the transportation of the elderly to pubs. However, on that point, perhaps making it clear to publicans (legally) that transport be made available to drive people to and from the pubs in rural areas might help matters. The industry is on its knees, why would they resist?

Sorry Piaras i live in the country and that is a bullshit comment.

Píaras does make one good point, the majority of road deaths occur in rural areas due to more hazardous nature of older roads (narrow width, poor forward visibility, lack of hard shoulder/footpath etc).

Most older people from rural areas I know are more likely to call into a neighbours kitchen for a pot of tea and chat than go down the local.

Piaras is right. I live in the country and the driving standards are appalling even in broad daylight.

Well, first off, that’s an assumption on your part. What evidence is there for that?

Secondly, even if true… so?

I think if you think about it, you’ll see that’s your own pre-judgements about people coming out. Most of the people on either side of the discussion make no reference at all to where they live.

I think drink driving laws need to apply evenly to everyone. You’d probably assume I live in a city because of that, but I don’t.

Peter I looked up peoples profiles to see where they were from so I couldn’t be accused of pre-judging people, I guess that didn’t work out! This debate is very simple for urban dwellers as it is black and white for them. To throw in some generalizations not everyone in the country goes out 7 nights a week and they don’t all insist on getting rat arsed when they do!.. There does seem to be a perception that it is impossible for anyone to go out and have 2 pints for example. If they want to drink they are told “get a taxi”. The nearest taxi to my relatives is 7 miles away so I think he charges a call out fee because my local is only about 2 miles from home. So it’s not worth him doing a 28 mile round trip for my 2 pints.

It suits me to drive because I can have a pint where I normally live as I live in a town, so in effect I have the best of both worlds. I can also see it from both sides as well and there simply is no excuse for drink driving in built up areas. Rural areas are different because of distance, weather etc.

Actually here is one for you Peter….

Lets ban public transport in all urban areas for one month, even just for weekend nights, and we will see how many urban dwellers like that! Not only would they get fresh air as someone pointed out earlier but they would also get fit when they had to walk home the odd mile or two! It would also save on carbon emissions, cut down on road accidents (don’t forget high viz vests) and people could walk home together and have some quality conversation on the way home. I just hope it doesn’t rain though.

The local cops who turn a blind eye if it’s someone from a “good” family is it?

No Michael, the local cops who know who is doing the fool and who isn’t. I saw this in action in another part of the country some years back. A local young lad who was given warnings didn’t heed them with the result that he was stopped in front of me one night on his way home. I found out after that he had been told that he was being watched and that there were complaints about him. He didn’t listen and so ended up getting bagged. The locals on the other hand knew that there was a certain line not to be crossed that wasn’t set down in law. This meant that people could get on with their lives with no more nanny interfering, anyone who had too much to drink was brought home and people were still able to socialize.

Except Brian, that most people don’t list that information so you’re still using incomplete and irrelevant assumptions. Besides which, several of the comments agreeing drink-driving is always wrong specify the poster lives in a rural area.

And your point about urban bus services… so what? Should rural transport services be improved? Of course they should. I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t. As far as I can see you’re attempting to mount yet another ‘us vs them’ fallacy, where people who drink-drive are excused from it because life is oh-so-hard for them and people who disagree just can’t understand their plight. But, let’s face it: “Drink-Driving: Right or Wrong?” isn’t THAT complicated a moral question, is it?

And, by the way, Brian; that “Ah, sure, we know who’s a grand lad, really” attitude hasn’t, historically, worked out that great for the Gardai in other areas of criminal investigation, has it? That’s exactly the sort of petty corruption that firm laws are needed to stamp out.

Yes Brian. And I know someone in that same situation. Committed 2 offences. Killed someone in a head-on. Then got convicted for the first 2 offences. Then got convicted and imprisoned for the fatal. Someone has to die to satisfy your approach to law enforcement?

Ted… you Lazy F*** get off your arse and walk… good idea tough !!!

I don’t have any problem with you living in the country. I just pointed out that it is unrealistic for you to expect the same levels of services e.g. public transport, in the countryside. It does cost more to provide services to dispersed populations. We all pay tax but you would have to be paying a lot more to cover the extra costs of providing these services in dispersed communities, it’s just a fact. Live where you like but then you need to quit whining about poor public transport, community facilities, internet speeds etc., spreading these services throughout the countryside is never going to happen.

What has the makeup of the respondents got to do with anything. the simple facts are that roughly 10 years ago people were dying on our roads at the rate of 1 a day, in 2011 186 people died on Irish roads, that is a drop of almost 200 a year, and despite the growing population and number of cars on our roads. Some of this can be put down to the increased quality of our roads but it is also down to the changing attitude of the Irish people to drink driving. I am a young city dweller don’t know anyone who finds it acceptable to drink and drive. If you are suggesting that older people living in rural areas are more accepting of drink driving, well then they need to take a good long look at themselves.

How would it be distorted? That’s based on the presumption that rural dwellers have, or should have, a greater say than anyone else. They don’t, and they shouldn’t.

Besides, for all you know, 90% could all be rural pensioners and the 39% result in favour of special treatment is down to that.

The purpose of the poll is to find peoples attitudes to drink driving laws in the context of the article. This type of poll is not accurate in that we do not know from what sector of society that the results are returning from.
I was commenting on the possible inaccuracy of the poll and not suggesting anything in relation to drink driving laws.
I personally agree with our current laws and would advocate and support strict enforcement of the same.

Adrian, such a law would simply be struck down in short order. You can’t have a law that says it only applies (or applies differently) to people based on their age and gender and pay packet. It’s unconstitutional and a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, to boot.

your suggestion is simply unworkable

My first ‘tweet’ and I managed almost 100 thumbs down. To say I am bursting with pride would be a gross understatement. Thank you, I love you each and every one of you.

Congratulations. Good to be controversial. Especially on your first day out. :-)

Your vocabulary needs to be corrected, what a load of mumble jumble,100 thumbs down,you have excelled ,what are you saying ,sounds like you are getting drunk taking the kids to school,sober up loser!!!

Why thank you Reada..ah Louisa is back with us, how’s the head today my lovely?

Would you ever answer me. Was I right? Cryptically???

Me? What was the question?

Check your twitter

yes i should spell like you paul kealy, and write kids, instead of children,and gotta,i mean where did you get educated,what does gotta mean, you should go and get yourself another dram,your obviously in need of one,and get yourself a life ,after you drag yourself from the gutter.

Well that certainly put me in my place. Have you ever heard of full stop? What is a ‘dram’? As Oscar would say, some of us may be laying in the gutter Louisa my darling, but we are looking to the stars .

Have you got Twitter, or as you would write it twuvvbe?

Teri…you make a very valid point. You are very pretty but that in no way influences my change of heart. You are correct, I can not disagree with your conjecture. Sorry Louisa.

You don’t pay enough taxes or use public transport regularly enough to make it sensible to provide these services in the countryside. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere that’s your choice but don’t expect there to be all these services laid on for you. One off housing makes supplying these services for you more expensive, e.g. empty buses trundling through the countryside, up this lane, down that, around the world on the way to the village… you’ll have to organise it yourselves i’m afraid…even to surface your road and my road may cost the same, the different is thousands of people live on mine, a couple of dozen on yours

So to follow your logic Paul i don’t need to pay either a household charge or property tax as a rural dweller i don’t recieve the services you speak of.

Norman, I pay €2,000 annually in management fees to pay for the kinds of things local councils provide and I pay for public transport on the luas, which makes a profit so no need for extra funds there, so your €100 is going to the same alleged services as my €100.

“I drink and drive, I have no choice”. What a load of horsemanure. Ever heard of personal responsibility? You chose to live in the back of beyond, you should accept the consequences.

Surprised you can afford to drink with all that expense.But if you do can you not get a lift off the owner.

Of course you have a choice. There’s ALWAYS a choice. What you really mean is “I drink and drive – the choice is between drinking (which I really REALLY like to do) and not killing other people on the roads”

Seriously, now, if you actually feel that your ‘need’ to drink is more important to you than your own life or the life of other road users, you need to closely examine your relationship with alcohol.

If i had to drive on a main road with drink..that would be a different story..”but i don’t”…If i see a tractor or traffic on my road (during the day) that would be exciting .. I like socializing and why should I stay at home and be like all the other sheep in this country ?????? bring back to good old days when drinking and driving were over looked unless you crashed or worse…. Baaaa

If you had to drink-drive on safer, better maintained roads it would be different? It’s only because you’re only driving on poorly maintained, unlit, back roads that you do it?

To be honest, you sound as if you’re determined enough to create a scenario to excuse your drinking that common sense goes out the window. Same with your assertion that the moral consensus that dangerous driving is wrong is just people being ‘sheep’.