Fiona, I can truthfully say I would abide by this directive because it has affected my own family directly and they just adhered to new requirements. It was a River SAC in our case which is just as complicated in terms of pollution and human health when you are a farmer.

Government owns it, of you look at your folio in the Land Registry it states “does not extend to mines and minerals”.

It’s the governments or more correctly the State owns it.

All natural resources (including wind, which I thought was odd) belong to the state, it’s in the constitution.

Well then, so why are turf cutters allowed to cut turf that the state owns? That kinda settles it in my mind.

It isn’t a simple as that, generally neither the state nor the turf cutter owns the freehold of the bog, it’s often a third party with the state having the rights to the turf. The state then apportions the right to cut turf to other nearby land owners as an appurtenant right to their freehold. This works in much the same way as a right of way, you dont own the land but you owb the right tocross it, or in the case of turbary, cut it.

I have emailed you although I’m a bit freaked out doing it lol I promise I will listen, I really do!! I can’t promise we will agree but I hope we can respect each other.

nothing to be freaked out over at all – we’re very friendly people here in Kildare …as long as you agree with us – just kidding. LOL

Reada, even the South American rain forests happen to be in use by the people who live there. Environmental solutions that don’t account for the people living and working in any particular environment are no solutions at all. Have you read the turfcutters proposals?

The only reason they are trying to stop people cutting turf is so the oil companies have more control

Auntie Dote, are you for real? The copy and paste piece of crap that TCCA put out expecting people to accept it, no methodology, no statistics, no references, no authors? and most of all no evidence for claims made. People in rainforests generally tend to practice sustainable ways of live, not all mind you but that whole other can of worms, turf cutters are not living in any kind of harmony with their environment and certainly not sustainable.

Stop reading propaganda from vested interests and read/view some proper information by even googling if you don’t trust my links below.

My My Réada we’re going to agree on something, wonders will never cease. Bogs take hundreds of years to recover (if not longer) but some rural communities seem to think they can just keep cutting and it’ll all be fine. They are also using studies which show the bogs to have increased in size to justify their cutting. But unless the laws of nature have changed I’ll take it the measurements taken for the different studies were slightly different.
Though I’m not going to agree with your attitude on the EU. We are the EU as much as anyone is the EU.

Soon it won’t be a problem anymore :D

Raised bogs are only about 2% of the total Irish bog. 99% of turf cutting will not be affected. They are being generously compensated, to give up their turf rights in the raised bogs, and can go in most cases to other near by bogs that are not protected.

There is enough bog outside of these ones, to be able to resolve this issue very quickly.

Bord na Móna are NOT cutting SAC raised bogs so that is why this Directive has not affected them. Futhermore this is not just EU Law, this is IRISH law and has been around since 1997 BUT the government gave an ILLEGAL derogation to the turfcutters on protected bogs so none of this is exactly a surprise!

Bogs are not be cutting by hand with a wee man and a sléan, they are being cut with huge machinery for money and while they provide fuel for homeowners the turf is also being sold at great profit by some of these people protesting their “right” to destroy the small number of these protected sites. This ban isn’t just some crazy whim, other countries abide by this directive as well and are expected to prevent damage to these rare habitats. The bogs are worth far more than fuel, they act as flood defences when they are functioning properly i.e. not drained and not being dug up for an unsustainable fuel source. The bogs filter water thereby protecting water supplies which is pretty important for public health, cutting releases peat into the water system polluted the river, destroys wildlife and when peat contaminated water is treated in our water treatment plants it results in the formation of compounds which are dangerous to human health. So for the sake of a minority the rest of us should have poor water quality, pay for expensive flood defences downstream of the destroyed wetlands and lose some of the rarest habitats in Europe not to mind say Ireland. Well as an Irish person I want a say in this travesty and say Deputy Flanagan and the vested interests of TCCA do not represent me and do not have the right to impact my life negatively due to their determination to destroy this valuable asset.

The turf cutters had 10 years and more to seek alternatives, they chose to assume they were above the law and they ignored all offers of compensation and mediation thinking they could bully the government and indeed the EU into allowing them destroy the last vestiges of the natural of the ENTIRE Irish population. They were offered alternatives & relocation where possible, they have been offered money & fuel so what more do they want? Culture my arse, not a lot of culture in a JCB & Hopper is there?

Guy who lives in city, again another favourite argument of people like you…town vs country is such an old and overused argument and completely invalid when the issue at hand affects ALL Irish people and not just a selfish minority.

Grants are a con, have you ever spoken to anyone who got grants from SEAI? I know lots of people in cities, towns and countryside who use solar successfully to heat all their hot water, I know people in the countryside using geothermal heating successfully, my own family in the countryside heat their entire house using a wood burning system, insulation also helps with bills.

You could plant some trees now and they would be ready for use as firewood in 15-20 years, until they mature you have €2,000 a year (15 years) and if if you weren’t so resistant you may not even need to spend all of that on fuel should you think outside the box instead of sticking in a rut and refusing to look to the future.

Contractor, kickback, inflate prices….what are you talking about? Turf cutting contractors?

Finally, what guy? whose afraid to identify themselves? Not really making a whole lot of sense there. maybe you need to lay off the conspiracy websites as well.

Yeah force the people to buy taxable fules I realy think this the reasoning behind this.

Bord na Mona are not cutting raised bogs though. They are on the 98% of bog that is not raised. Different type of bog.

To be fair Fagan’s Bord na Mona were responsible for the destruction of vast tracts of raised bog in the past which is partially why we have so little left and why, now we know how important they are, we need to look after them properly. Bord na Mona do not cut any protected raised bogs which is why they are not subject to this ban, no conspiracy just simple legislation and truth.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of any assistance.

Really Kemberlee can you provide statistics on that? Futhermore Bord na Mona are NOT cutting legally protected bogs where as the TCCA & their followers ARE. Have a look at this video of a domestic contractor cutting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irBQcKSeFVc

right on simon, we also need our turf to heat the house, our “old” supplier has been told he can’t cut anymore !
so where to get it now ? we are looking now here in clare to find a new supplier, because we need our turf !

Well said James, alternatives like EcoTourism have been dismissed on many occasions by TCCA as have co-op energy schemes, SEAI schemes to retrofit houses, coppicing schemes and more. I think these bogs could be amazing community resources for so much more than fuel.

Why should we give up our land it our right to cut our own bog will it be your farm tomorrow this a fraction of what bord na mona cut but thats all right for the Government .We have been cutting bogs for hundreds of years before any union and we will still cut them , like everything in rural Ireland close us down or lock us in like prisoners .Europe is doing ETHNIC CLEANSING of rural area. Now it war on us and we will fight for our right in every which way to gain that right .Give the people their own land we don’t want anymore .

Sorry scrap the part about compensation, I didn’t realise that they were actually being compensated.

And Tim it hasn’t just happened overnight either and it isn’t just some quack from the EU. Irish law and EU law protect these habitats, Ireland and Irish people voted the EU laws in and took the money from the EU for doing same. This isn’t just some new whim this is ongoing since 1997 and there is a lot of scientific and economic data to support the ban on these sites. UCD/EPA produced the BOGLANDS report published in 2011 which is a very comprehensive report and consults a large cross-section of society. It can be found at the following link http://erc.epa.ie/safer/iso19115/displayISO19115.jsp?isoID=236#files and was featured on Eco Eye http://www.ucd.ie/bogland/BoglandEcoeye.html

Lies and misinformation from Deputy Flanagan & TCCA have played a large part in this mess and confusion plus the FF governments refusal to deal with the issue means it has come to a point now where FG have to act.

My bad EMD

I know, making sure we don’t destory protected unique habitats, bastards!

Nonsense. We are the EU, as much as anyone us the EU. All these deals are done by consensus and we agree to them in advance. I am so sick of the crap that the EU is some sort of faceless bogeyman out to get us. Too many, politicians especially, who take credit for the good work from the EU and point the finger at the EU if there’s something unpopular happening. We are the EU… fact.

I am sick of being told that we should be grateful to the EU. I am tired of the EU interference . I am Irish first last and Always :) Yes we are part of the EU, but my god do we have to give up everything to them ?

Even faceless bogeymen can be right once in awhile…

Absolutely and pigs will fly !

Susie. What exactly have we had to give up to the EU?

Auntie Dote, Holy God what are you talking about? This has been on the cards for years, some of the stakeholders i.e. turf cutters were well aware of what was happening but chose to ignore it. Other stakeholders, namely the general Irish public, have not been consulted by the TCCA, the Peatlands Council or the government when the wheeling and dealing was going on lately. I’m a stakeholder so why doesn’t my opinion count? Oh that is right, it is because I disagree with the destruction of these sites and the lies being told by the vested interests of Luke Flanagan & TCCA.

Read the BOGLANDS report, check out the internet yourself, look at the videos showing the devestation and then you try to engage with turf cutters who have never, ever entertained any discussion or mediation which may require that they accept the law and move towards a sustainable future.

Denis, have you read any of the previous comments or links provided? This has nothing to do with Bord na Móna who are not cutting protected sites *sighs* Your lack of knowledge on this issue is astounding for someone supposedly promoting a green agenda, please go and inform yourself properly before you comment. Honestly you are the kind of person giving green agendas a bad name when you keep shooting off your mouth without any obvious knowledge of the habitats, ecology or the issue at hand.

Regards,

A seriously frustrated member of the public

EMD,

Whoever or whatever you are, you really are full of bull. What do you know about what I’m trying to achieve? Have you looked? Have you actually done anything yourself to try to address the whole green issue, apart from filling these pages with caustic and abusive comments against people who ARE giving years of their own time? I never saw you when I was out and about in all weathers physically active in bringing my message to the public, albeit still incomplete and lacking in certain knowledge experience (some of us DO admit that we don’t know it all). I learn more each day, and have had detailed discussion with people at high level in Bord na Mona, the EPA, planning department, waterways and fisheries, Coillte, and too many other bodies to list here.

Fortunately there are many hundreds of people who support me compared with the handfull of sideline knockers who heckle from their comfortable armchairs. Don’t talk to me about lack of knowledge.

Denis, what are you on about? You don’t know me so you couldn’t know what I do or whether I am out and about. I am making caustic comments, yes I am, because I am pretty fed up of misinformation and poor science being bandied about by you and others. I have never purported to know everything, who does? I am however informed on this issue while you patently are not or you would not be bringing Bord na Mona into the equation. I also know that Bord na Mona have and are engaged in restoration work on some of their properties and I also know that Bord na Mona are not above the law and are currently subject to invesitgations of some of their activities. How you can say Bord na Mona should be stopped and their bogs reflooded and support the destruction of protected sites at the same time is contradictory at best.

I know that Coillte are also engaged in restoration projects, that their working practices can leave a lot to be desired and that the results of the afforestation and felling are multiple and damaging to our environment. However, again, they are not relevant to this discussion.

This issue certains around a small number of protected raised bogs which have been designated as they constituted the best example of what was remaining of this habitat in Ireland. They were designated under the EU Habitats Directive (92/43/EEC) which was transposed into Irish law in 1997, the turf cutters were at that time given a derogation, illegal under the legislation, for 10 years in which time they were to phase out cutting and seek alternatives. The rest as they say is history and have brought us to the point where we are now.

The common misconception that this is a few individual who go out and cut a tiny bit of bog each year by hand to fuel their homes. This couldn’t be futher from the truth as referenced by Valverde et al. 2005/2006, BOGLANDS report 2011 (EPA/UCD), Friends of the Irish Environment report (2011) and by the numerous videos and photos available of the wholesale destruction of these bogs. The black economy surrounding this “industry” is also documented within the BOGLANDS report as are the economic and environmental (negative) impacts as a result of the ongoing cutting.

Denis can you honestly hand on heart say that scientists & officers from environmental agencies agree with your crazy notion of letting this cutting continue on these bogs? If you really have met such people from these organisations they are a) not representative b) incompetent as they work in governmental agencies and bodies and should understand the law of Ireland. 100′s support you doing what? Support your endorsement of the destruction of wetlands through supporting comments like that you have made today?

Finally bog restoration is extremely complex and while it does include restoring species of bog mosses it also requires hydrological expertise alongside practical solutions for actively rewetting the bog and encouraging active peat formation through encouraging plant communities necessary for same.

Just because people have always done something does not mean it should continue indefinitely. These bogs, a small number of them have been deemed to be valuable natural habitats and worth protecting.

Government are pissed off that they cannot tax you for using this form of fuel/heating/energy, think that’s what it boils down to. They are just dressing it up as something else IMO.

Orlaith – you really should get out more. Stop visiting all those conspiracy theory websites. Look what happened to Jim Corr – not good for you!!

lol Reg, very true indeed!

Sherbet Bell, my kids have been on bogs, in woodlands, on mountains, heaths and farms. They don’t have computers, playstations, Xbox or any of those consoles, the eldest is almost 11 plays football outside all day long every day. The TV doesn’t go on some days at all so I really think you can’t assume because I don’t cut turf I know nothing of the outdoors, positive child rearing or teaching them about the environment. Can your children identify common birds, name plants and discuss reasons why trees and plants are important, maybe they can as I don’t know you but my kids certainly can.

Your argument is pointless here, even if I sit my kids in front of the TV all day it doesn’t make mine or any other opinion less valid. The general public are entitled to benefit from these bogs too, they will benefit in terms of human health for future generations and conservation of these important areas for future generations to learn about and enjoy.

I agree sherbet…The turfcutters are actually providing a service as they treat the bogs with the respect they deserve.There is no waste generated by the cutting or pollution.The produce a product for their use only.It is city dwellers or greens that have this rose tinted view on what is good for the environment.Turf cutting has been carried out by Irish families for generations without any recourse to modern machinery thus leading to mass production and waste.Its grand for those who just knock a switch on to create heat or energy in their homes.By their actions they are causing more damage to the environment than any turf cutter will ever manage in their or their families life time…

Only thing I disagree with Fiachra is saying EU have handled this badly, successive governments allowed the issue to go unchallenged and now it has finally reached endpoint. This government just inherited the crap dating back to 1997!

I mean that in the sense that resentment has festered and has now got to the stage where it is more about eurosceptism rather than the issue at hand- obviously manipulated by eurosceptic parish-pumpers like Ming Flanagan

Well said Fiachra, I concur.

We’d be much better of with out them,I love poverty!

I think the people who want to leave the EU should be allowed to establish a reservation somewhere, where they can continue the “traditional” Irish way of life.

It would be a good idea to teach your children about the value of the bogs as wetlands, carbon sinks and habitats before you destroy them completely forever and they are let wondering why their Dad was so shortsighted to allow Ireland’s resources to be lost forever.

At least my kids will get to experience a bog, it’s wildlife, it character, it’s traditions, it’s secrets. They’ll understand the process, they’ll develop skills with hay knives, slansand pikes, as opposed to developong arthritis in their thumbs from a playstation. They’ll have something very rich to pass on to their kids about OUR heritage and traditions, and will have a far deeper appreciation for our resources.

If you want to protest, tie yourself to the gates of a board na
Mona plant where more damage will be done to our bogs in 5 minutes than I’ll ever do in a life time.

Sean, who said anything about protest? There will be no wildlife left for your kids if you keep cutting so you are fooling yourself and that is FACT. Bord na Mona are not the issue here, people like you are who want to keep on looking to the past and refusing to move on into the future as we all have to. You can teach your children far more about the bog by looking after it and teaching them about its value in preventing flooding, for wildlife by taking walks through it rather than draining it, cutting it and burning it.

My children and their children have a right to see these bogs too as Irish people.

I was being very reactive there and gave you a thumbs down, but I’ve given a thumbs up for balance.

There’ll be no love here I’m afraid, we’re getting bogged :-) down, just disagree and move on, my thumbs are killing me.

Yerra Sean we all get passionate about our point of view, I actually do understand your comment regarding tradition but sometimes we have to leave old traditions behind and start new ones. It doesn’t mean your children will miss out on loving the bogs if they don’t cut them, perhaps they will just look at them a different way. The bogs are very important to you but they are to me too and I think we as a country cannot just view them as fuel anymore when they long term hold such riches for us if we look after them, stop draining them and cutting them. I must add I don’t like Bord na Mona actions either but this issue just doesn’t have anything to do with them as they are not on protected sites.

Wouldn’t it be nice, if somewhat idealistic, if my kids and your kids were to meet on a bog and share similar views on the wonder of Irish rainforests, our bogs!

I can think of several other arguments that could be made on the basis that it’s historic tradition and my father taught me. Time change, we adapt and hopefully things get better.

Sadly, your historic tradition won’t continue too much longer as there will be no turf left to cut. I enjoyed many days cutting turf out in the Dublin mountains with my father as a child. All gone now.

Your missing a major point here, I don’t cut turf for fuel, I cut it as a lifestyle, it’s my heritage, a family tradition….
My mother gets 20 bags every year, and me the same. We burn Oil, drive cars, and source Power from esb, as im sure You do. (does it not bother you more, that sourcing oil to heat your home and drive your car, has been responsible for the greatest manmade ecological disasters known to date!)

Like I say, bnm do more damage in 5 minutes than I’ll ever do in a life time. There are many more like
me, we should not have to sacrifice our traditions because of other peoples greed to capitalize off natural resources.

Our identity as a nation is at stake,, traditions define a nation.

Personally I’m not a farmer, but do cut turf, most of the other people I know who cut are not farmers either. Just because you live in the country does not mean your a farmer, get your facts straight!!! Its mainly about not being able to afford oil to heat your house.

“crowd of bullies”? For standing up for something that’s been a tradition in Ireland for generations? I don’t know what kind of house you’re heating for €2,000 a year, I can only presume you don’t use oil.

Sharon, €2,000 a year for 15 years goes towards a lot of oil or guess what you could think outside the box and put it towards solar panels, insulation, geothermal heating, wood stoves etc. But no, you would rather yammer on about tradition, JCB, Hopper, Tractors are tradition now, and generations…..guess what we were catholic in Ireland too for generations and look how that is changing. Traditions become outdated, the tradition died long ago to replaced by large oil guzzling machines, made from well oil base compounds and causing the release of yet more carbon into the atmosphere. some tradition that is? New tradition to be made of an irish nation which has pride in its environment, pride in the health of its people and pride in conserving some of the rarest habitats in Europe.

Firstly, I don’t recall replying to you, but seeing as you have some innate need to comment on every second post here, I’ll play.

I wasn’t “yammering on” as you so eloquently put it, and I never mentioned the word JCB. I disagreed with the use of the word “bullies” with respect to TCCA members. You, in fact, are coming across as much more of a “bully”. I would very much like to know where you’re getting a year’s worth of oil for less than €2,000, but you are probably opposed to the use of oil too.

Sure – Geothermal heating, solar panels and wood stoves are all great, but how far will this €2,000 per annum go towards installing any of the above in a house currently relying on turf? If you can solve that (without mentioning something that “should have been done” since 1997), then I will change my mind on the issue. I’d also love you to point me in the direction of one case study that proves that domestic turf cutting on a raised bog has significantly damaged the surrounding area and had a negative effect on the health of the local community. This has been going on for hundreds of years, there must be loads of cases? Right?…

I have great concerns about the health of this population, contrary to what you might believe. You obviously feel as strongly about this issue as I do – albeit on a different side. I suggest you put your time and energy into campaigning for what you believe in through the proper channels as opposed to jumping down the necks of other fellow citizens who do not share your opinion.

Sharon,

I can comment on every post here if I choose to do so, this is a subject about which I am very passionate just as there are/were those posting incessantly about the houshold charge. I am not a ‘bully’ either because I have strong opinions about the subject and continue to present hard cold facts to people. There has already been too much mawkish and misleading spin from the TCCA & Ming around this issue so I’m simply presenting actual facts about the situation.

I have repeatedly referenced articles on this thread showing domestic turf cutting is damaging to bogs, just because something has been done for a long time doesn’t make it right, A long time ago we didn’t have machines, large numbers of one off houses with septic tanks, intensive agriculture, hard surfaces like roads, yards, car parks etc. causing run-off to our rivers and streams all adding to the pressure on the natural environment. A long time ago we hadn’t destroyed the world around us to the extent we have now and man cut small amounts of turf from the large number of bogs available by hand using non-mechanical transport to get it home. Those days are gone, intensification and mechanisation of cutting, draining and the cumulative effects of all the other things I described means turf cutting is not sustainable and on the few protected sites we have it is illegal. It is time for new traditions to be made on the the protected raised bogs, these can have the same community spirit but will not involve the physical removal of turf from the bogs. Furthermore you don’t want me to mention 1997 and time elapsed until now and then you bring up the distant past yourself?

In terms of human health…..effect on ground water, drinking water and effect on flooding on settlements downstream of bogs/fens, the fact that water in this areas, which has had peat released into it, ends up in a water treatment plant and is treated results in carcinogenic compounds called Trihalomethanes being formed. In terms of economy the impacts as described above also apply, flooding is costing the country huge amounts in construction of flood defences in cities and towns, the contaminated waters are resulting in poor drinking supplies which obviously has the impact on health and costs more to try to deal with in our water treatment plants. Then people are drinking this water and so on. I haven’t even mentioned the biodiversity impacts along the way and the value of same to human health and wellbeing.

I am not jumping down your neck, I am disagreeing with you and am perfectly aware of “proper channels” as you put it so why aren’t you taking your own advice and putting your knowledge out there to prove that the turf cutting is not detrimental to the environment, economy and human health? I’d be delighted if someone could come up with a supported argument and solution to allow cutting to continue as at least then I wouldn’t be consistently banging my head against a wall when these articles arise and we wouldn’t be in the shameful position we are in now. I can’t wait for those fines to start rolling in, can you?

SEAI/IEN/FIE proposed a renewable energy package to the government to allow for installation/retrofitting of homes, this would incolve availing of current SEAI grants and using the proposed compensation money. It was suggested that in this case a lump sum payment be made up front for the amount equalling the 15 years and that this should be sufficient to ensure a full refit. I cannot find the link to it right now but will post later if I can find it.

Eu blah blah Sovereignty blah blah

Turf cutters getting compensation

If you really cared about Ireland you would want to look after these habitats without it having to go to Europe. Where is your national pride when you allow a small minority destroy the natural heritage of Ireland.

The EU can’t be blamed here, we had plenty of time to sort this out ourselves but the governments pandering to TCCA and Luke Flanagan means we are now in the shameful position of needing the EU to force us to look after our country. Shame on Deputy Flanagan Shame on TCCA, it is they who are the traitors and betraying the Irish people for generations to come.

So let me get this straight: you want to preserve turf, our “most valuable of fuels” by cutting turf.

Yes, I can see the logic there.

@EMD – my story….
My family are 1 of over 100 families that are directly impacted by the designation & we have only ever cut our turf banks as a means to provide heat, hot water and cooking facilities for generations. That’s the practical side of it!!
The side that is not addressed is the “human face” of our community as a collective. Our turf cutting community are long established families, with the same family names having cut turf side by side for generations. Our turf contractor has never exploited the use of the machine, he has only ever cut enough for the families needs. Turf Cutting has been his main source of income but now he is unemployed. The bog to us is not just a fuel source; it is a life source to our families & our community.

The impact of this designation on our residents (especially on our older retired residents) is a cause of huge concern. It’s not just about cutting turf, it’s the social outlet, the community participation & the mental health outlet that it provides. Our turf cutters from our bog say that harvesting their turf is the best free counselling that you can get. As at various times in their lives; building turf footings was an analogy for problems that they were facing. For those of you who have ever footed turf, you know how back breaking this job can be, so to find it therapeutic is in itself a very powerful statement.

Our families live in or on our bog, we can whistle for our dogs, go for a walk across the bog at our leisure and feel the breeze on our faces and the sun when we get it. Our children have been reared with a knowledge that has been passed onto them by their Fathers, Mothers, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles to respect their environment. They have a deep understanding of the local wildlife, and can identify, our sparrow hawks, cuckoo, kestrel, owls & snipe, to name just a few. As a result of these traditions, 60 years ago the first of 5 conservation clubs were established to manage game & vermin in or around the towns lands of Mouds Bog.
In essence our bog is very much a photo album of memories of times past, present & future.

In my opinion, if the history of this is not acknowledged the solutions will not come easily. “We are where we are” because the bodies that were entrusted to their jobs have not just failed but failed miserably. We the domestic turf cutters should not be publicly held responsible for the pending EU daily fines of €26,000 – WE DID NOT CREATE THIS MESS!! – The bodies that were empowered to manage this “project” and who failed to correctly engage with the private bog owners –should be held accountable!

We are not criminals nor do we have any wish to be!
Thank You!
Fiona Conlan
Mouds Bog
Roseberry
Co. Kildare

Dear Fiona, thanks for sharing your story but it does not change facts, you had more than 10 years to change how your community used the bog, 10 years to look at alternative sustainable sources of fuel and sustainable alternative ways of interacting with each other and the bogs.

You may walk the bogs and hear the birds but that will not continue if you keep cutting and draining the bogs. You can keep walking the bogs, that will not change, you will still hear the birds and see bog wildlife, it will increase as the bog is restored and you can make new traditions with the young and old alike. These traditions will be compatible with a modern world where we need to recognise the need to protect such beautiful habitats for our health and wellbeing, to protect our countryside and water and most of all to conserve them for future generations to enjoy.

Your contractor should not be driving his machinery on the bog and taking out huge amounts of this valuable resource, yes I know you said he never took too much but for these bogs any amount is too much. Add in the drainage and the damage done driving large machines over this delicate habitat then the impact is huge and unacceptable particularly in light of their protected status.

You say it is not your fault, well the successive governments from 1997 until 2009 certainly were somewhat to blame for allowing you to continue turf cutting but ultimately you are responsible for your actions and ultimately you can make the choice to live by the law. Yes, the law, the law which Irish people voted for, the law which is Irish as well as European, the law which allowed the government to receive monies which should have been put towards looking after our natural heritage and was squandered instead. You and all turf cutters breaking that law will be responsible for our already broke country paying large fines to the EU, if you were really truly proud of Ireland then for the country you would protect our natural heritage and look to the long term instead of short sighted short term gain.

You are responsible because you are causing this mess because you refused to accept the law of the land, chose to ignore the implications of the legislation for 10 years and chose to thumb your nose at the rest of the country. You are behaving contrary to the law and if you don’t want to be seen as a criminal then you must not breaking the law and behave as a responsible citizen.

€2,000 is a significant sum of money and can be put to good use in buying fuel if necessary or more logically put towards switching fuel sources, reetrofitting homes, investment in community schemes such as coppicing or wind turbine. This is done in other countries so no reason it can’t be done here.

Fiona, YOU have a choice to act within the law and work towards a sustainable future for the best interests of the whole country or you can act against the law and cost us money in fines, cost us the health of our rivers & groundwater, cost us in flood insurance, cost us in flood defences, cost us in human health and cost us our natural heritage. That is your choice but as an Irish citizen I know which I would choose for the benefit of the Irish populace.

2’000 euros would heat our house and water for a year our bog has been heating us for genarations and will continue to do so for genarations to come. It’s a laughable and insulting offer.

Francis give me your 2,000 euro so and it’ll sort me out for more than a year. Insult me arse, it is plenty and the bog won’t be heating you for too much longer if you keep cutting it. You need to look long term and stop with unsustainable short term blinkered view.

Put your €2000 towards a solar heating system, there are grants available for that as well

I think €2000 is crap compensation. For the love of god can we not do anything right.

Ancient turf cutting folkways involves JCBs, Tractors and Hoppers then?

TCCA spent time researching, where is the research because it certainly isn’t within the recent piece of propaganda produced by them. Generally if you publish a document at the very least you acknowledge contributors and authors, show methodology and analysis used as well as acknowledging all sources and references. It was a copy and paste job from NPWS site synopsis, other published works which were not acknowledged and the recommendations made were not based on any hard evidence or study. If so much time was spent researching why wasn’t a sample of the survey questionnaire included in the report along with statistics for each question asked? Simply because TCCA made it up as they went along and are quite simply lying in many of their claims regarding feasibilty of continuing to cut these sites.The integrity of these sites is severely compromised by cutting which is why it must cease.

None of their supposed suggestions or compromises are based on fact or on reality! Simple science supports this, something which this group have repeatedly ignored and lied about.

I can’t stand the EU. For me this is an Irish question. I still have enough respect for my country that I’ll see her first before trying to make an opportunist dig at Europe.

You’re right, we’ve got all the inward investment from the 70s, 80s & 90s and the likes of REPs is just a pain in the hole, we should just tell them to piss off back to Brussels.

Why wouldn’t I be shocked to discover that our esteemed members of government do not know what a raised bog is?

BTW Flannagan while he may be a crackpot said there was disagreement about the status of 2 or 3 of the bogs not all of them. Also if I remember correctly this was one of the things he stood for in the election. Pity that some of those currently in government don’t do the same.

Do you know what a Raised Bog is Kerry? The definition the government uses is the INTERNATIONALLY accepted definition, so unless you are a scientist with some new information then you should be shocked that Flanagan is making such ridiculous claims.

EMD, I actually voted for bog protection comes first. All I was pointing out was what Flanagan said and his reasons for acting as he is. Just because something is internationally accepted does not mean that a minister in government knows what it is.

But he was questioning what government definition is not if government minister knew what it meant! He is now trying to say that Irish experts don’t know what they’re talking about because he thinks the internationally accepted definition of a raised bog is wrong and therefore Irish people (scientists) are wrong. Jesus how low can you sink, ask Flanagan if he knows how to define a raised bog and all you’ll get is some mawkish claptrap about his forefathers etc.

There is no question about the status of the bogs this just more rhetoric and misinformation from the populist that is Flanagan.

bull crap

Most people I know who cut turf don’t use it as their main source of income.

Wait, thats not what they are saying- they were claiming it was for personal use ie. to heat their own homes- making it a commercial enterprise is totally wrong

Fiachra, therein lies the reality of this issue…it isn’t about tradition, it isn’t about culture, it isn’t about fuel for the poor wee woman down the road. It is about money, filthy lucre and I daresay oft undeclared income at that. The black economy of turf cutting is discussed within the BOGLAND report which Luke Flanagan has taken quotes from on occasion but not acknowledging that the overall conclusion was that the peatlands needed protection and cutting must stop.

Again, Bull crap…

You have alternatives particularly if you are on affected bogs, you are going to get €2,000 a year and you could invest in switching to wood, solar, geothermal etc. If you looked into these energy sources then you would probably get grants on top of your €2,000.

This emotive “I want to heat my house and feed my kids” business doesn’t wash, we all have to do that and we aren’t going to get €2,000 to help us along the way either.

It’s actually €2,000 for this year and then €1,500 for the remaining 14 years if you meet the correct validation criteria. Also that amount is per TURF BANK – we have 2 members heating their home from 1 turf bank, so the amount is split in 2.

My apologies Fiona as I thought it was upped to €2,000 for the full 15, there has been so much tooing and froing on it that I’m unclear what the final offer was. Look I have sent you an email, hope I won’t regret it. Perhaps we can chat more then?

You had two L’s in Gmail so I had to resend again, should be with you now!