There’s no way they’ll send people around knocking on doors! It would cost way too much, take way too long and the response they’d get from most people will be the same, i.e. “Fuck off”

jaysus id love if they came to my door, been half starvin the rottweillers since before the last general election, just in case…

Typical council tax £1100 pa plus £400 water and sewerage. Latter not paid if on private water and septic tank. However weekly bin collection, street lighting and reasonable road repair, subsidised country buses, fire brigade and ambulance thrown in!

Yawn

It’s got to be the banks…

go ta bed
back to sleep wit ya

well dave,
u can either look at the reality of the injustice going on in society
and say its getting boring guys, just accept it
which u seem to have,

or in my case make a stand for what i beleive in.
Ur choise is urs and my choice is mine.
terribly sorry that my financial position and social conscience is boring the pants off ya

Toorkell above, you won’t be yawning next year when Big Phil sends you your invoice for €1400. Doormat.

As I said before.
Phil Hogan is getting desperate.
Desperate because his plans have not worked out as intended.
His latest idea is to instruct all Co.Councils to literally knock on peoples doors to collect 100 Euro.
Wow. What a plan.
Wow. What will this cost?
Hang in there until the end of the month or possibly a little longer.
I can see this charge faltering.

I see banks may be looking for another digout. You better dig deep lads.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/spectre-of-more-bank-bailouts-looms-188231.html

And how easy it is for the ministers to say “It`s only 100 euros, when they themselves are EXEMPT from even paying the household charge!

I’m just going to jump in here to debunk the thing about ministers being exempt from paying the household charge. It’s something that’s come up quite a lot in threads about the household charge over the past week or so – understandably – but one of our reporters did a bit of digging and found out that it’s not true. Ministers do indeed have to pay the household charge:

http://www.thejournal.ie/government-ministers-homes-not-exempt-from-household-charge-389793-Mar2012/

Christine, what does this say in Q/A # 142 in this: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp

That’s what our reporter looked into. It turns out that the answer in #142 is phrased really, REALLY badly, which has led to this confusion.

When it says that residential property ‘owned by a Minister of the Government’ is liable for the charge, what it means is property that comes under the jurisdiction of the Minister – such as army barracks, which is technically owned by the Minister for Defence – will not have to pay the charge. Ministers will have to pay for any personal properties that they own.

Guessing there’s a lot of red faces in the government this week given the amount of confusion caused by that answer in the Dáil.

Thank you for the clarification on this, Christine… Goes to show that if they can`t phrase something correctly, one wonders about their governing abilities too! Considering that the government is there to serve it`s people, they should be liable for the household charge as well! No exceptions. If it`s good for the goose….

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0323/1224313766388.html

Ministers may be liable for the charge.. But dies anyone honestly think they ate going to pay it themselves? It will go down on their expenses and won’t cost them a cent!

@Stray Mutt!

Agree with you! I broke my sides laughing when I heard it on the radio this morning! He honestly thinks that ordinary staff members from the Co Co offices are going to drive into estates, get out and knock on nearly every door to ask for EUR100! He got to be joking. If I was a staff member in Co Co I would tell him to” f . . k off and do it yourself. If you think I’m going to take dogs abuse (rightly so) at doors of houses and also probably have a dog set on me, you can sing for it” That’s what I’d say to him! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!

Do they realise the expense of sending people out to go door to door. you have to pay for their car costs (petrol etc) you also have to get them insured and train them on how to collect the levy and since there is thousands of people gone from the councils what services are they going to sacrafice to send people out. he is getting pretty desperate now!

#Joseph. Sorry to hear you’re struggling, I had a very tough few years myself. But you or I struggling won’t make your contention that the 100 euro is going to pay for the banks any less true. I posted you a link yesterday clearly explaining that only 5% of our deficit this year was caused by the banks. You read it and you commented on it but you still complain about the banks today. So are you confused or lying?
http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html
“If we do a simple counterfactual and magic away the €62.5 billion we have pumped into the banks, the projected deficit for 2012 would fall from €13.6 billion to €12.8 billion or 8.0% of GDP. Eliminating the effect of the bank payments would knock 5% off the deficit; 95% of next year’s deficit is not related to the bank payments.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0323/1224313766388.html
“But the guardians of the public finances were as inattentive to the risks they faced as were the guardians of the financial system. They pumped out every cent that flooded into the exchequer with no consideration of the sustainability of revenues streams.”

Yes it is for the banks and the *ankers who destroyed our country so let those very same *ankers and bankers sink but they are not getting another red cent from me

#Bernadette.The two articles I linked above clearly show the the vast majority of the money we’re repaying isn’t going to the banks. So unless you’ve got some economic experts that says otherwise I’d suggest you’re mistaken in your belief. It’s important to realise that just because enough people repeat an untruth it doesn’t become true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0323/1224313766388.html
“Three claims are frequently made:
* Most public debt is a result of taking on banking debt;
* The economic and budgetary outlook would be transformed if banking debt could be offloaded;
* A bailout would not have been needed had it not been for socialised banking debt.

These claims are, respectively, plain wrong, wrong and debatable.”

they can’t be wrong and debateable,,unfortunately clarification does stand in the way of alot of political hay,,,,and journalistic hay!!

There are three points, one which is plain wrong, one which is wrong and one which is debatable. Not seeing any logical or journalistic issue with that. Of course I also posted what Seamus Coffey, lecturer in Economics in UCC said…
http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html
“If we do a simple counterfactual and magic away the €62.5 billion we have pumped into the banks, the projected deficit for 2012 would fall from €13.6 billion to €12.8 billion or 8.0% of GDP. Eliminating the effect of the bank payments would knock 5% off the deficit; 95% of next year’s deficit is not related to the bank payments.”

Perhaps those who believe something other than the above would have some proof for it? Very easy to blame the banks on the price of cheese or whatever they are being blamed for today without any proof.

@ Gary.
You are correct to point out the government overspending is not limited to the banks.
The ‘Cantillon effect’ is attributed to aa 18th century Irish economist who described the effect a bubble has on asset prices. He describes how certain areas of the economy expand to unsustainable levels during a bubble. These activities must again return to a size proportional to the overall size of the economy to permit sustainable growth to return. While this has already happened in construction and other property related areas, it has not yet happened in banking or in relation to government spending.
http://www.theasiamag.com/cheat-sheet/the-cantillon-effect-explains-property-prices

@Sean. I like how you worded that and ignored most of what I said. The government has pumped money into the banks but *95%* of our deficit this year is nothing to do with the banks… FACT. Yet all we hear about is the banks, no to taxes and no to austerity. But when you realise the overspending is not due to the banks you quickly also realise that there will have to be new taxes and more austerity. There is absolutely no choice. Even if we dropped the banks tomorrow we would still need new taxes and austerity. Some people in here are in fantasy land.
BTW, I’m curious, you say that there hasn’t been a contraction “in banking or in relation to government spending”. But government spending is down at least 10 billion in the last few years and the banking sector has been heavily cut back. So it’s appears to me your contention is incorrect. Though maybe you can explain to me how you’re against austerity but seem to also want government overspending stopped. As that doesn’t makes sense.

If this tax isn’t supported, you can expect a tax elsewhere to pop up. We’re paying whether we like it or not

perhaps so paul,
but until our glorious leaders really start
standing up for us
they can get stuffed as far as im concerned.

G’day, Joe !! Brace yourself for a shock. I didn’t pay so far & after all the bullyboy tactics from the Govt recently over this, they can go swing for it. I detest bullies & the only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to the bully. Nearly 75% haven’t paid so far. from what I read. That is not to say I’m against the idea of it as long as the cost of it is fair, the money does go to where it is meant to go & everyone – no exceptions – makes a contribution. That last point was where I had the problem with it. All the exceptions. But – no. I do not take kindly to having the nation being bullied & handbagged into paying. They messed this up & it certainly does not inspire confidence.

Declan
Im proud of ya darling! X x

Nicola – it’s: Phil Hogan, Grovine, Co.Kilkenny.

We want people to send it to the right place. :)

@Gerard Murphy,

You forgot one thing Gerard, your house is now worth about EUR80-100,000 less than when you bought it! Yet, you are still paying a morg. for the worth of the house when you purchased it. Not fair, very unfair.

The whole country is not on its knees. Many are but many are not.

well said Gary

Well said Gary……

Great comment Gary.. I echo every sentiment! I would also add the reversal of all advisors salary increases over the supposed ‘cap’ !!

Roger that Colonel McNamara!

Now there’s a well informed and highly adequate comment!! :))

On the ball there, finally someone talks sense.

you are having a laugh

Ask the people all over Ireland who were paying hundreds annually for water and sewage services for years, until protests in Dublin lead to their abolition, what they did with their refunds…

and by the way I won’t be paying the household charge

and yet they still enjoy a lot of support, its hard to fathom why, this option of picking ‘the best of a bad lot’ is not acceptable, why vote to to employ someone into a job with a massive salary and pension, when they are just laughing at you behind their hands? its just a cop out to say if you dont vote you dont deserve a say, what about if you dont vote because all the candidates in your constituency are a bunch of slitherins that just want to get paid? in the last election not one candidate approached me to seek my vote, all i was exposed to was the lies that were published and broadcast, its true Tom, our children will be next, but theirs wont…

True peasant.
Politicians are crap.
However how can we get change? Surely by not voting you’re helping the establishment types get in.
Last election I was in Clare. Nearly all candidates were FF/FG slant (or further right!) The leftie ones didn’t stand a chance.
Still by voting for a no hoper you show that you’re not happy.
I hope to be able to vote for the muppet party next time. really hope someone starts that up in my new consistency.

It’s not an Anglo tax. That’s a separate issue. We’re paying that on the never never.

We have a gap of 14Bn between what we take in a spend.

Make no mistake about it, all these taxes are propping up the Croke Park Agreement beneficiaries and for paying all the extra social welfare payments.

Anglo is a balance sheet issue

Taxes are a current account issue.

So refreshing to see somebody that knows what they’re talking about on here Paul. Too many people seem to have fallen for the lies from the don’t pay brigade.

Paul I will send you my address and you can pay mine.

For the record, I told a porky. I’m a property owner and I have no issue with paying a propery charge. I’ve already paid the 100 euro, in fact.

I’m amazed that what to me is an obviously ridiculous statement got so many “thumbs up”. Through taxes, everyone is paying for these services – even if you’re just renting a house in a rural area where no such mains sewerage or water supply exists.

I assume that this future property charge will take such anomalies into account but for now, just pretending that this is all going to line the pockets of some banker is silly. Read Dan O’Brien’s article in yesterday’s Irish Times. We’d still have a massive budget deficit even if not one red cent was going to the banks.

u don’t get it do you?
its not just simply about not paying the 100quid.

its the bigger injustices going on,
a lot of people are being squeezed from every angle,
to say nothing of the corruption in the big G,
to add insult to injury
the people are being asked to bail out banks?
would you have believed it possible a few years ago!!
bailing out the flocking banks!!! the piss is being taken out of us BIG TIME.

oh, just a wee question….
who’s helping the little man who is in trouble?
sorry to bother u with such a trivial question.

Joseph,

You’re the one who’s not getting it. As I already explained, we’d need new taxes to balance the books anyway – bank bailout or no bank bailout.

If you want to make your protest against the bailout in this way, that’s your choice. But hey…! Why just stop at this charge? Refuse to pay your car tax while you’re at it and any other tax you have control over.

What’s this about a little man in trouble? Is there a leprechaun drowning somewhere..? Okay, seriously, there are lots of little men (and women) “in trouble”, some are very deserving of help, some are entirely to blame for their predicament.

I could have been one of those little men in trouble. Instead, I used every spare cent I had to pay off this mortgage and thank God, I got it cleared a few years ago while people I know were maxing their credit cards every month on flash cars, state of the art furniture and weekends here there and everywhere.

So….could you be more specific, please with your “little man in trouble”?

u don’t know who im referring to?????

WOW!

nothing further to say to you sir

blind and determined to remain so, doesnt seem to understand that a huge % of the population simply cannot afford to pay it, its ‘only’ €100, sure my kids wont need any food that week

Eclipse
You don’t get it..

The amount of wasted tax payers money is unbelievable..
Why should we pay another cent to these idiots..
It’s bloody time the people stood up to the political elite of this country..

For example
Justifying NAMA spending €500,000 a month on property valuations every month from Jan 2010 to Jan 2012.
With a grand total to date of €13.3 million..
I mean seriously ?? WTF

Defending the €85,000 spent during the process of hiring an internal candidate to replace Kevin Cardiff as the secretary general of the Department of Finance.
John Moran was promoted from his position as Second Secretary in the department and head of the banking division.

€5million of tax payers money on accounted for by SIPTU.Of which €4.5 million from the HSE which would build the badly needed unit at the children’s hospital.

Wasting hundreds of millions of “OUR” money on non starter projects like building the children’s hospital in a total unsuitable and in accessible site because it’s cronies are on the board ..
Paying them selves pensions on top of pensions on top of existing salaries..

Breaching guide lines for salaries in public sector pay again for “cronies”..

I could go on but I actually don’t want to be here all night because that’s how long it would take.

It just never ends..
I say it’s about time it did

Behind u all the way Waterford… Great perspective in those wasteful clowns… How quickly many forget

Joseph,

It was a simple question. If you feel uncomfortable answering, that’s fine.

RP, you don’t have to pay it all in one go. There are options for paying in installments.

cant pay wont pay, i am already paying esb and bin charges in installments, havnt got any installment money left

Well, I’ve got 2 euro per week. I’m amazingly lucky that way.

listen to yourself, we both know you have plenty more than 2 euro a week, when i finish paying my normal bills i have €47 a week left over for food to feed 5 people, when it comes to september and new school year time, or christmas, or birthdays etc i feel physically sick with worry over what i will be able to do, you seem to have no understanding of these conditions, most people i know are in the same boat, this ‘only’ €100 is only €100 that i just cannot pay

Okay. I’m not on the pig’s back either. I’m a full time carer looking after an elderly parent and have been since May 2010 when I went on leave from my job. But I’m not going to start exaggerating my straitened circumstances. I saved my money in the good times and got on the property ladder. I also have a few thousand euro in savings which I’ve had to dig into lately for a couple of unforeseen and unfortunate incidents. Things will get interesting when/if the savings run out but for now, I’m getting by and I’m sorry but I’m not going to start feeling guilty about that. I think I’ve contributed to society and I’m continuing to do that. Others would have put their parents in a care home and expected the state to pick up the tab.

I do actually think that there should be some means test. People below a certain income shouldn’t have to pay. Certainly, your situation should qualify given that what you describe is comparable to income levels in the Horn of Africa. It’s something that the Government should have looked at beforehand.

But we do pay for all as is …. It is like the PRSI and then they brought in USC and we are now paying Twice fir our health service and the Along came James Reilly and totally obliterated what was left if it after M.Harney 2out if the same bucket (
James and Mary)

Yes starry eyed..
Why should you pay tax on a house that you stuck your neck out and worked hard to pay for thus taking the burden off the state to supply housing for you..
While people in subsidised housing paid for again by your taxes don’t pay a cent..

there are plenty of people living in council houses that work hard too, and btw they pay more rent than private renters in the town where i live, get your facts straight, not all council house dwellers are on social welfare, and many of the older ones went for council housing because there werent any other houses to live in, bully for you that you had the opportunities to get good enough employment so you could work hard and get your own house, it wasnt the same for everyone so give up with the tarring all with the same brush comments

they are re-introducing the old road tax system from january next year, bigger engine=bigger tax

Stamp duty was brought down significantly in a recent budget. It’s an irrelevant tax anyways because so few houses are being bought

not irrelevant
if u bought and had to take out a mortgage that would of had to
include stamp duty.

Stamp duty was reduced to 1% a couple of years ago for properties under 1 million.

not many people buying in the last couple of years,
doesn’t really help those who paid 5, 10, 15 + grand in the ‘good’ aul days
now does it reg

Who’d be so foolish as to take out a mortgage for stamp duty, That’s not spending money wisely now is it!

whether it was wise or not is neither here nor there.

They’re stuck payin it back,
no bail out for them
ya chump

… and i never thought I would say that one day ;-) So long I was kind of embarrassed but now things are turning and slowly I am really really glad … :-)

No they don’t have to pay, but the landlord does. And despite calls from the government, in a lot of cases the landlord is passing it on to the tenant. You have a choice, legally or illegally, to pay it. Many tenants have no choice. One way or another, the rented houses beside you will have paid the charge. Saying that though, as a tenant myself, and considering the services supposed to be funded by this charge are available both to house owners and tenants, I think if you have to pay, so should I.

I also agree, I don’t see why the landlord should have to pay when presumably they’ve already paid the nppr. The tenants are getting the same services so why shouldn’t they have to pay if we do. If the government put this charge on every household regardless of ownership of the house that they live in it would be a lot fairer and a lot easier to collect, but I do also think that ability to pay should be taken into account! You simply can’t draw blood from a stone!

apples and oranges

What part of “it’s a tax to go to bondholders and not to go towards providing what are effectively already charged for public services” don’t you get?

Peaple in europe dont have such high taxes or a new usc charge of nearly 50 a week and the likes of hollands petrol is the same price as ours and they dont pay cartax its included in that so tell ur english friends thats why we dont like payin taxes 3 times and thays why ur country is f”"cked like ours !! Im not payin this cos off mistakes from corruption at d top !

The countries that have a property tax don`t have all the taxes that Ireland has!

Apart from fuel, The cost of living is still massively cheaper in the UK.

Itchy brain they are wrong about that amount.!!!
UK. Is means tested and fair at that..
You must have been talking to someone who is a very high earner..

Yes and you GET services in the UK & US.

Ireland is a very unequal society, flat rates for housing taxes and talking about how much higher rate tax payers contribute to the tax take is all relative to the massive income inequality here. I take home about two thirds of my pay. What proportion of their incomes do the millionaires take home after all the exemptions and dodges? Scandinavians pay half their income in tax and what do they get in return? Free or very cheap high quality nurseries and schools, a year parental leave, excellent hospitals, open government where all members of parliament have to publish their bank accounts, they also get very egalitarian societies with low poverty, deprivation and crime rates. Where’s the value for money in paying tax in Ireland?

These clowns were elected on fraudulent promises, if we bought a product based on the kind of horseshit we were sold before the last election we’d be entitled to a refund. Not another red cent, only this time it’s being said by a million of us, not some liar and/or spineless politicians.

‘Broadening the tax base’ is all very well…but slamming more and more taxes onto the lower and middle income earners until they have to decide whether to buy food or heating fuel with what money they’ve got left, while allowing the very wealthy to remain largely unaffected, is NOT the way to do it.

Finally! The voice of sense!

100 euro isn`t the problem it doesn`t all boil down to money, its the principal.

Only 100 Euro?? We don’t know where its going, and we don’t know how much it will be this time next year or in 5 years time -!!! I certainly will NOT be paying it.

@ Steve I would agree but we’re not all being asked to pay. Just those of us that decided to work hard and provide for ourselves and not be a burden on the state, while those who are putting the most burden on d state are exempt, many of whom are far better off than I am!

ive copied this post from above.

“u don’t get it do you?
its not just simply about not paying the 100quid.
its the bigger injustices going on,
a lot of people are being squeezed from every angle,
to say nothing of the corruption in the big G,
to add insult to injury
the people are being asked to bail out banks?
would you have believed it possible a few years ago!!
bailing out the flocking banks!!! the piss is being taken out of us BIG TIME.
oh, just a wee question….
who’s helping the little man who is in trouble?
sorry to bother u with such a trivial question.”

Here’s a better one, lets start by not paying out 8 years worth of household charge to unsecured bondholders on the 31st March. Why? because we the ordinary householders do not owe it!

Yes Steve, its only 100 euro, but I’m unemployed after working and paying tax for 40 years. 2 euro a week means i’ve got to NOT EAT at least one meal a week So guess what? pay the tax or have dinner? I’m not missing dinner for anybody

it’s the principal….no and no…. maybe if they invoice me…but not until then

Glad to know you have 100 euro ready and available. We have a bill of 178.00euro to pay for our refuse collection by April 1, this used to be done by the Council but they gave it to private collectors so we have been paying this for the last number of years, so I don’t see why we should pay 100 for the household charge. We don’t need all the councilors we have, there are so many layers in some counties I wonder how they all are paid. I believe Luke Ming Flanagan speaks a lot of sense regarding county councils, he was part of one and tried to change it but couldn’t.

@Steve & Nicola re: it’s only €100.
Well I’m really happy for you both if you have the spare money to pay, kudos to you both. But it is not quite as simple as its only €100 for the rest of us.

Wether €100 or €10 if you don’t have it…it’s a lot of money!! And I quite simply don’t have any spare cash at all. I will feed my children and buy them school books & shoes etc before I ever pay this ridiculous not for services tax.

Problem is the waste of Billions in excessive public salaries, on far too many senior figures. Croke Park my arse! Reform the spend and I will have no problem paying even more tax if necessary!