The people are hungry: It is because those in authority eat up too much in taxes.

Lao Tzu

And while we’ve reached our limit:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=494852363900431&set=a.148461985206139.40836.116110171774654&type=1&theater

Those who try to control, who use force to protect their power go against the direction of the Tao. They take from those who don’t have enough and give to those who have far too much!
Tao Te Ching, The book of the way, Lao Tzu!

This is such a slap in the face to the Irish tax payer!!
Our visiting EU “partners” should be transported by mini buses !
May be then WE might feel we live in a real republic and not Animal Farm,

Don’t sart that crap with the Audi cars. They are not costing us anything. Audi sponsor every EU presidency and lend the cars to the relevant country. They’ll be gone in 6 months to the next country.

I haven’t reached mine. I still have a little bit of wiggle room for my life to get shitter before I actually lose my house or starve :)

# Malachy Scott.. Malachy you are incorrect ! These Audi,s are new and registered in IReland
They are also RH drive , not much use in the most of the rest of the EU.
THe real point I am trying to make is we are dealing with Perseption , and many of our EU partners including Germany who think Ireland is doing very well and needs no extra help.
Lets show them a bit of austerity .
I

As far as I’m aware they are registered as new in every country. Not sure why you think they’re RHD ?

Malachy, there is another picture of the cars face on and they are definitely right hand drive. Also, I’m not sure but would it be possible to re register cars as new somewhere else when they have been used already?

Malachy examine the pics …. All the Audi’ s are rhd! I fail to understand your point that cars registered as new new in Ireland can after six months be registered as new again in the next EU state to hold the presidency ,

Does it matter if they’re the same cars or not if Audi are paying?

What you seem to not get is that both are a tax on property, therefore can be lumped in the same category.

But they’re different Act’s different leglislations etc. There were waivers which reflected people’s personal circumstances in the HC Act and different buildings are exempt in the LPT. Different fines and penalties apply in both Acts. Has there been circumstances before where an Act has been repealed and thus had no force of law, then a couple of months later one Act was re-birthed but only so the defaulters could be reabsorbed into completely different leglislation? I presume they’re going to attempt to do this by way of the Finance Bill my question was how can they legally do it? Or as you put it Gareth how can they legally be ‘lumped in’ together?

It’s like this Anne. The laws not there for tax dodgers to hide behind.

They cannot transfer any outstanding charges from household charge to household tax, unless of course you sign-up to the contract for household charge first. Its all a game of confusion & fear. Don’t be fooled by anything gov says.

The irish tory party will find a way to get the money by hook or by crook.
If it is illegal to take it as the law stands,,,,,well hey ho,,,,they’ll change the law.
The labour party know its wrong to back them,but they dont want to lose their new found wealth.I cant wait until labour is in opposition.
Watch them eat humble pie for another 15 years at least…..

@ Anne Gardener, excellent post. From a narrow legal perspective, it is a misuse of law to use one law to enforce another. Legally speaking, each of the taxes is separate and distinct from the other. If the property tax was a lot more substantial, a legal challenge might have been made on the basis of that point.

The revealing thing was the requirement of a PPS number to register and to pay for the tax.

From a fiscal perspective, I see a property tax as a sensible and, if properly implemented with some reflection of means and capacity to pay, a potentially equitable tax. Unfortunately many households have been left in the position of being unable to afford to pat the tax, even by making sacrifices.

I disagree that in a modern society people should be expected to surrender television and Internet access. These are part of the democratic flow of information in our society even if RTE, our national broadcaster, has a predilection for errors.

The widespread opposition to the imposition of property tax indicates to me a growing disenchantment with our particular system of representative democracy.

As a general point laws are only successful and effective if they have the adherence of he general populace. Although I intend to pay the new property tax for as long as I can afford it, I am opposed to harsh measures against those who refuse or are unable to reply. If there is any retributive or Draconian element in the enforcement process, it may cause me to rethink my compliance. I dislike harsh Government which fails to empathise with the plight of those most severely damaged by the economic policies being pursued. We are a society and in these days of hardship we must look out for each other.

I did not vote for the Labour Party to hurt the people and I expect our Government and the Revenue Commissioners to respect the citizens of this country, especially those who have already paid a heavy price for the profligacy of the past.

Katie…. I hope I am not misinterpreting your reply… But one would think it’s racist. However, being that you are of sound mind and intelligence. .. I will give you the benefit of doubt. Happy New Year.

Here is a video for the journal readers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJjSzXkm55o

BTW Im not a racist how dare you say that. I care about the native Irish people and I don’t like them being screwed over.

I appreciate the oversight in regards to Katie’s original comment.

Native Irish, would that include Phil Lynott and Paul mcGrath in that comment?

Any chance of a date Katie?

Do you like Gold-Diggers, James?

stephen murphy “native irish” your obviously ignorant of the fact that paul mcgrath and philo were indeed native irish as both mothers were irish so you gave a cheap dig at katie
. just as a note on the whole racial thing and native citizens. i was chatting to a guy from finland some years ago and he was pointing out the similarities between what was happening in finland and ireland both with very small populations and taking in a large amount of immigrants, the effect of a 100,000 immigrants in the uk is not as much the same amount in our tiny population. so stephen and others lashing katie out of it what would say if the plug hadnt been pulled on the boom of madness and people were still flowing in at what point do you say we have to many immirgrants whens its 50/50 ????
of course ye will come back wit the old racist card and the irish in every other country but it would be better if we all shared the worlds resources and know how .it seems a contradict that ye want to only look after the people that come to our shores for help or a better life and neglect to help the remaining people of that country to have a better life.

Declan, the only reason why I commented about Katie’s original reply to my comment (which was deleted) is that she typed gibberish which could be understood to be stereotypical African bush speak. The fact that the message was deleted confirms that others tbought the same. In no way should Katie’s opinions (though half-baked) be sensored, unless they are disparaging.

Crowe- That’s the point I am making, these guys were/are native Irish. Ask that lady, what she meant by Native Irish!

marlon grand stuff.I didnt see her comment so im just going on what is there now.i assumed it was in relation to the video link which i thought was very interesting
And as for “murphy” i didnt see any racist comments ,all i saw was your “gold digger” comments which are out of order or perhaps you personally know the girl and are in a position to declare this!!
Any way pity i got distracted from the main point of the property tax.which i have fought and will continue to do so.best solution i seen on all this is a two state solution where all the people who want to pay for the bankers,bondholders and tds enormous salaries move to one part and all of us who want a fairer way and dont want to publicise these private debts move to another where we will pay officials a fair wage for the honour of serving their country

Haha, Katie’s a troll, look at her account. I’d love her/him to say yes to your date and see your face when a fat baldy walks in.

I’m standings right next to you !!! Well said !!

Sinead and Abbi.
When you get your first Revenue demand letter and the threat of interest charges and penalties together with a possible Court Hearing for tax evasion will you still be telling us that you are not paying or will you immediately become good citizens and put your digital device away for another time?

Your wages were cut, you pay for a bin, you pay prsi and usc. So in a nutshell, exactly the same as the rest of us! Don’t whinge about spending cuts when you’re encouraging people to avoid paying tax. It’s called an economy

Hi Michael, so far I have received nothing that references the Household Charge. Not one piece of correspondence has come through my letterbox. They are not even organised enough to contact me.
I’ll take my chances, along with the hundreds and thousands of others that have refused to pay.
And, you’re right, I might cave, I might not have the balls to see this to the end but right now there IS still fight left in me and I will maintain my stand.

@sinead / @abbi- you don’t get to pick & choose which taxes you think are fair and what you will pay. Start saving ladies. That will be €100 please.

I’m not whinging. I’m stating. I’m not crying and I’m certainly not losing any sleep.

Vincent you seem to take pride in the fact that you have been shafted.
Is it really that comfortable leaning over that barrel ?

Vincent ‘Fine Gael Press Office’ Dolan – do they pay you double time on Sunday?

@Con / JP- unlike you boys, I’m a realist. I’ve actually noticed that the country’s in a bit of trouble. I’m surprised you guys didn’t notice- it’s been on the news. So extra taxes are inevitable to get the country back on track. I’m prepared to do so. And without the crying you have to listen to on here. As for being in the pay of FG, sadly no. But I’m not proud. I’d take payment from anyone.

Maybe the gubberment should stop paying off bond holders and interest on Anglo debt and no new unjust taxes would be required? Interest on Anglo is over €3.5 billion this year that would pay for a fair few services.

There is no actual need for the charge. Our taxes pay for the councils like all other public services. This is yet another scam, like the USC.

Nice piece

Thank you.

It’s not that they couldn’t, it’s just they didn’t want to!

Everyone knows that this “tiny” 100euro charge will become approx. 400 this year. B.S.

SHAME ON YOU !!!

I wouldn’t worry about the red thumbs on here Martina some people just get bored and want to annoy people. The tax is supposed to go to County Councils and they in turn use to money but in the UK the tax is used for water charges, bins, electricity for street lights. The argument then is what about people in rural parts of Ireland who do not have access to these facilities and we will still have to pay for water and bin charges?

I wish they’d take it from source. Makes it so much easier.

Katie !! Please do not use the word retarded !!

Im looking to get out,please forward piggy banks to me so that I may get one way ticket and never return.

You shouldn’t have paid it in the first place

And why is that Fergus?

Or Fergal even…

Because it’s an unfair charge that nobody should have to pay in my opinion. There are better and fairer ways to get the money needed for these services!

In the 1990’s I paid the water charges (Approx. IR£275). Sometime later, due to mass evasion, the tax was reversed. We were told at the time that those who didn’t pay would be pursued. This didn’t happen. At the next general election campaign, I asked FF candidate Tom Kitt about getting a refund. He said “You can be assured you will not be left out of pocket”. I am still waiting. This is why I didn’t pay the Household Charge (as I’m clearly in credit) but also because it was not means tested and was voluntary anyway. They fooled me once, SHAME on them. If they fooled me twice this time, SHAME on ME.

question is where did all the stamp duty that people paid on their houses go to? what was it used for and also the council fees you pay whilst building a house. where does that go and whats it used for?the councils say its for roads and parks. Whats household charge for then/ property tax for?only to tax you again on the same property your after paying council fees and stamp duty on..its scandalous.if your council fees are used for roads what is motor tax for? i know people who paid over 40g council fees and government want more tax on that property for funding council.am i missing something here

Well said Gareth, I also paid mine and have called the local council regularly to complain about the fact that others seem to be getting away with it and if that was the case I wanted my money back. whether you like it or not it is a tax and the advantage that Ireland has over Greece is that the tax system functions and is by and large fair.

Petes and Gareth its not a tax it’s a charge, the tax isn’t coming in until later in the year. You get charged for your phone, electricity, shopping and many other services and goods that you use. You also get a bill to explain these charges. I have yet to see a bill explaining the household CHARGE and what services I am to be CHARGED for.

The household tax will be scrapped after the next election. How? Each and every candidate in the next General Election will be asked if they favour household tax, yes or no. Only those who oppose it will have any chance of getting elected.

Fully agree with Doo. It’s a fallacy that we have a democracy or a say in the way this tax will be spent. Many Councils have huge debts on their books and it is towards paying these debts, wages and swanky revamps of council offices that the money will be going to. Aoife I’ve always paid my TV licence but I have friends who havn’t. Do I wish them to be hounded so I won’t feel like a fool? Not at all. I don’t understand the begrudgery. If they paid up, pat kenny et al would probably have salary increases, there would probably be superior Fizz at the RTE Christmas parties, but I don’t think for a minute that the programming would be any better.

Anne, uh you mentioned pat kenny and now im thinking Joe Duffy, Marion, just overpaid rubbish, and for what? I pay tv licence too, just so I dont a get labelled”tax dodger” I just dont agree with this tax,it serves no purpose but to pay back bondholders. Services, pfffftttt. Services will get less money cause the Irish Government is handing over a few billion in drips and drabs with no returns. Everyone else is suffering, the government aint.

This was taken off householdcharge.ie

What will the household charge finance?

Revenues from the household charge will support the provision of local services. Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges. In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other services, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting. These facilities benefit everyone.

Doesn’t our income tax already pay for this service or is it just a means to nab homeowners who became unemployed and social welfare dependent?

Well said.

No. The government changed the way local authorities are funded. Local services will be made available or cut in accordance with household charge/property tax payments in each local authority area.

Before the Household Chrage was introduced, what was funding the Local Authorities all along and the bins/water. They don’t have bins or water soon and get road tax, what will the tax be funding and why is central Government getting 35% of it?

@ Kevin I wonder if anything has caused the income tax take to drop over the last 4/5 years…

Yep the ineffective policies of our government and their desire to do anything that their overlords tell them had cost us plenty of income tax

I agree with the sentiment that there are people who take everything and are prepared to give nothing back. There is a culture of people who want everything for nothing. In the current climate we must all make sacrifices . It cannot go on the way things have been. We are now paying for the misuse of funds in the past. No matter what we say or do we have to move on and try and fix the problem instead of complaing about it. That will get us nowhere. We are where we are.

You didn’t have to pay it either. If nobody had paid it then nobody would have had top pay it. It’s people who bow to everything our pathetic government says that are the problem, this change should never have been brought in in the first place.

So if everyone didn’t pay income tax?

The have nots and the have yachts im sure you made a unpretty penny during the boobytrap boom Lord Dolan.

correct dave people cannot choose which taxes they would like to pay if they are unemployed take the payment from their social welfare payment incrementally

What about non-resident owners? There are hundreds, if not more, in this category.
Every scenic area has them.

The Revenue cannot touch their incomes.

It’s not an unpaid tax, it’s an unpaid charge. You pay a tax for the benefit of the country. You pay a charge for services you receive. What services do we receive for this charge?

Its so blatantly obvious you are tolling!

Or trolling, which would you prefer?

Deadly!

I was granted citizenship two years ago, and i’m un-employed so i’m not trolling.

I at this point rarely comment on these kind of topics as the Irish will be Irish. (until the cows come home).
I don’t think there is another mentality that reacts to austerity in such a retroactive and underachieving fashion.
All talk no action.
And I don’t mean rioting in the streets but to see a nation stick together on issues such as the property tax.
If a vast majority proactively objected to this tax then at some point the government would have to reconsider.
But as this article proves…Objectors 0 : Government 1

Your comment doesn’t even merit reply

Kambe…nothing better to do this morning with your new Twitter account than troll through the Journal?

@ Kambe your comment doesn’t even merit reply.

Hey kambe,will you be my sugar momma when I get evicted, make a mean french toast

Kambe, I can give you a job at the same rates as the dole – picking up rubbish and cleaning dog crap off the footpaths.
Send me your contact details and I will fit you out with a pair of gloves, a pooper scooper and a few black plastic sacks.

Jane,

Why reply twice then?!

@ creamy, phone app fail.

Troll.

Jane, are you saying that your phone app somehow, without you even touching it, went and made TWO replies even though you didn’t want to? That is one seriously smart phone you have. Also, Paul, I think you’ll find that most people would rather have no job for €180 (or whatever the dole is) then clean up other people’s shit for the same amount of money. Anyway, maybe she spends all that free time learning things like painting or salsa or doing charity work?

What did you reply then Jane?

Gearoid, if we take in any more scroungers to add to our existing lot we will never get out of the mess we are in.
I am all for people on the dole earning their money, charity work, sweeping paths, or whatever.

Your not Irish