The way it’s taught is ridiculous. It should be taught the same way we learn German or other languages. Instead you are made learn stupid stories and poems instead of how to speak it. I remember for the oral exam being handed pages of stuff to learn off by heart and not knowing what a single word meant. Funny how most Europeans can speak several languages but we can’t even manage two. The education system is clearly to blame.

As an Irish language activist – I would prefer to see the following option. A core subject that focuses on speaking the language, improving young people’s confidence in using it. I would not have it assessed, take the pressure off students and learn to enjoy the language. If our goal is to increase the number of speakers, then we need to change the mindset.

An optional second subject could be added which focuses on poetry, Peig and all that other stuff that most people (including myself) are not interested in. For me – I just wanted to be able to speak Irish. I couldn’t care less about reciting poetry. If people wanted to do it, they could – and it could be assessed. But only make the conversational class mandatory – give students a chance to grow in love with the language like I did. School destroyed any love I might have had for it originally.

I finished secondary school in 2010. When this question is asked I always compare it to how I was taught German. When learning German, we spent the majority of our time learning vocabulary, tenses and grammar etc. There was always a massive emphasis on speaking what we have learned in front of our peers.

I never had that with Irish. We might have to read a passage aloud in front of the class from some author that nobody had any interest in, but it was a rare occasion that we would be told to converse as gaeilge. We learned our tenses etc, but they weren’t exactly drilled into us like in German class. In German the basics were repeated over and over and over until we got them. Once you have the basics everything that comes after is much easier. I was never particularly strong at either language, but I learned Irish for fourteen years, and German for six and by the end I was far better at speaking German.

I’m not sure how detrimental to the language it would be to make it optional, but the fact of the matter is that the course material is to blame here, not the language itself. Teach it like European languages are taught. It’ll give students the confidence to speak it. Less poetry and prose.

I was taught Irish from the age of 4 to 18 and barely know a word of it now!

Irish needs to be taught by people who are passionate about the language and there most definitely needs to be a shakeup in how it’s taught.

I have been learning Irish for 15 weeks and I think that I could develop any basic conversation (how are you, accommodation, work, hobbies, etc.), so it is not a problem about difficulty.
As I did not attend school in Ireland I don’t know how the language is taught but if after 14 years students are not able to speak a word that means that there is a problem somewhere and maybe it would be a good idea to try to fix it, otherwise we’ll be hearing that sad sentence coming from Irish people “I hate Irish language”.
You cannot imagine how much craic I have building sentences with my favourite words:
Tá mé ag obair in ollmhargadh beag cois farraige le mo thuismitheoirí i gContae na Gaillimhe agus is bréa liom é, tá mé an-sásta ansin! Yes! Huahuahua!!! “ionad siopadóireachta” and “faoin tuath” are also my favourites.
Slán go fóill agus tóg go bog é, a chairde!

Foriegn languages should be encouraged. At this point, Irish is foriegn to most people. So give students a choice between several languages (Irish, French, Spanish, Latin, German, Italian and Greek). By the time I left high school I could get through Spanish, french and German.

While in college it was mandatory that studied a foreign language as a graduate student. So I studied German and Swahili. Languages can be enjoyable if there is a reason to study the langauage and the learning process is learner friendly.

The question is…. Is the irish being taught in a learner friendly method?

Something you chose to learn is always easer to pick up, rather than making people do something they don’t want to do,
We should encourage people to speak Irish not bully them into it

I hated Irish in school , I would have done anything not to do it, I now hate the fact that I can’t speak much of it. I’d love to be able to speak my native tounge . It being compulsory might be part of the problem though, from a young age I was given Irish as a punishment.. (sitdown and shut up or il give you 5pages of Irish to write) I was never going to look at it positively from then. We all should be native speakers but I don’t see that happening again so those of us who want it should be able to speak it well, the same goes for all compulsory subjects , better having 60% of people getting 80% than 100% of people averaging 40%. Incentivise it and focus on knew teaching methods..

The fact that 1.8% of the population speak Irish daily tells us a lot, and I suspect the real figure is significantly lower. The language is effectively dead for the vast majority of us. Despite being taught it for 14 years, I have never had occasion to use it, and would much rather have spent all that time on one or more of the major international languages, French, Spanish, German etc. Along with our near neighbours across the Irish sea, we are the worst in Europe at speaking another language. This is due partly to the primacy of English as a world language, and the laziness that this encourages in its native speakers. In our case its also due to the difficulty of Irish and, in my experience, the grinding dullness of the material (Peig etc), as well as the teaching methodology. For many, the long struggle with Irish tends to make the thought of learning another tongue an uninviting prospect. Another factor in our poor showing in foreign languages is that we start learning them much later than our European neighbours, usually only beginning at secondary level at which point the French, Germans, Scandinavians etc have already achieved a significant level of competence.
What should be compulsory in school is the study of at least one other language. Those who wish to learn Irish should have the choice to do so, and those who wish to learn a major world language should be free to opt for that instead. Students are far more likely to have, and maintain, an interest in a language that they themselves have chosen to study. I would have loved to study Spanish at school but the subject was not available then. I subsequently learned it, and now can competently converse with up to 400 million others around the world. Personally I’m much happier to have acquired this skill, rather than any ability in what some would regard as my native language, and I don’t feel any less Irish for it.

Speak a bit of Irish to any foreigner and 9 times out of 10 they will will say that it is a beautiful language,whether they understand it or not..And it is.It should be taught in schools but without all the outdated poetry and stories that have no relevance in the modern world.This is what turned me off it at school.If it was taught in a modern context younger people might take it a bit more.To let it die out because it has been made so uninteresting by the outdated coursework involved would be a terrible mistake and totally avoidable.

My youngest daughter had to take Irish at national school. She is in a non-Irish speaking family (we are from England). From 4 to 11 she was more or less top of her class in Irish, but it has all gone downhill since starting 2nd level school. I say it’s the teaching method not the subject, and it is a shame that she has lost interest and skills because of this.

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas?? 14 years and that’s the sum total of it!

No aspect of any culture should be forced down anyone’s throat. If the Irish language is as popular as its advocates continually tell us it is, then there is no need make it compulsory.

The way it is taught now is atrocious I think. As someone who tried to stick out HL Irish, I found that because I had little to no foundation in the language I was mostly learning pages of literature and poetry off without having a notion what it actually meant.

I think if it is compulsory, it needs to be taught like French/Spanish where you learn the basics in secondary school and work from the ground up. Expecting the majority of children to be able to discuss the history of Irish literature or to discuss the imagery and themes in a poem when they can hardly string 10 sentences together is clearly not going to work.

I don’t think its used enough in Irish life. Unless someone is using a language a lot after leaving school it wont be retained. I know a few people who were very proficient in Irish and have trouble remember any of it a decade after leaving school. Its unfortunate but it does seem to be a waste forcing it on children when they have no interest. Its better suited to someone who feels they will make good use of it in their future career. I feel it should be made optional but maybe encouraged as a choice.

I think it should be optional after Junior Cert. You cannot teach a language to people who do not want to learn it.

I studied Irish at higher level for the Leaving and really enjoyed it but there were many who didn’t; whose skills were in sciences and maths but had no choice but to spend inordinate time studying Irish. I certainly think it should be optional but with bonus points at higher level.

Anything by optional is an imposition. Forcing a redundant language on children in the name of ‘Irishness and national identity’ is a cod. My Irish is still very good today and even if I had opted out of the language I would have been just as Irish. Some nut about mentioned that religion and Irish should be compulsory. That’s crazy talk straight from the horses mouth! My children will study neither Irish not religion. They will remain just as Irish as chose who CHOOSE to.

I’d be most in favour of it being compulsory up to junior cert and optional for leaving cert. That approach would give everyone a good base but it wouldn’t ram it down people’s throats at leaving cert when students can resent it. It should be taught as a language and not a subject like English and ideally I’d also include pieces on culture and history.

I am always mortified by the fact that I learnt Irish for 14 years and can’t speak a work of it. I believe it’s an important part of our culture and heritage but we really need to change the way it’s taught in schools. There is no reason why Ireland couldn’t become a truly bilingual country. If the Israelis were able to resurrect Hebrew, then why can’t we do it with Irish.

As the mother of a child sitting his leaving cert this year, I have very strong opinions on this.. he has HAD to learn, or this year, sit through a subject that he has absolutely no interest in. He is doing foundation Irish, because he has to. Wouldnt it have been better served for him to do a subject that he actually wanted to do and that might help him further his future career. It is an outdated principle that this language HAS to be taught. I agree with the other comments, it is a beautiful language, and certainly shouldnt be lost, but seriously, some people are language naturals, and some are not. There would still be plenty of children who would chose the subject, just as there are plenty who chose French/German, etc. Come on Minister Ruairi Quinn, be brave and change the whole outdated system that is the Leaving Certificate…..

Yes it should be but more worringly is why students are doing religion as an exam subject????!!??

Considering the amount of time spent teaching it, the abysmal rate of fluency when people finish it and the fact the only people who actually benefit from learning it are the people in the Gaeltacht and the next generation of teachers who teach it. The only reason our government stand so resolutely behind the language is because their ranks are staffed by teachers. Having the language mandatory is frankly unfair to everyone outside the Gaeltacht, the children from the rest of the country are competing for limited college places against a group who get an easy A from Irish (plus bonus points in other subjects, assuming they still do this), having it mandatory then forces children who would be better able to pick up points in other subjects towards a subject many struggle with and which has no practical benefit beyond the leaving cert.

I did my Leaving Cert 3 years ago and personally, I love Irish. I enjoy speaking it and using it, and I went on to do it for my first year of college. However, the way it is taught and the syllabus for schools needs to change. When I started Secondary school, I hated Irish because I couldn’t understand it. We hadn’t been taught it properly in Primary school and were expected to have a certain level of competency starting first year. I couldn’t understand the classes and consequently hated Irish. After spending 3 weeks in the Gaeltacht after my Junior Cert, my whole outlook changed. There, we were taught to speak the language and the rules of grammar (which were never fully explained to me in 10 years of learning the language).

In the North, it is optional, but for the students that do choose it are taught how to speak the language. Rather than doing 13 poems, 5 stories, 1 play and learning the history of the language, they are competent in speaking the language. I think that the Irish syllabus as we have it now should be divided into two, as it is with Maths. Leaving Cert students have to do Maths, but for those who have a real interest Applied Maths is an option. If the Irish course was divided into two subjects, Language class and Literature class, more people would be confident and able to speak their own language.

Have posted before on this subject. My 7 yr old goes to a gaelscoil and from day one in Junior infants they were spoken to in Irish. She’s now in first class and completely fluent (to the level of vocab that a 7 yr old should have) and its an amazing thing to hear her and her pals chat away to each other ‘as gaeilge’ . They love the language as it is just second nature to them. That’s the only way to learn a language. Speaking it!

Unless I am completely wrong the only 2 remaining “professions” where Irish, and Honours Irish in the leaving cert at that, are a necessity are Law & Primary Teaching.

You can understand why so for Law as according to the constitution;
Article 8
1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

However the question for Primary Teaching is not so cut and dry. To be considered for entry to Primary Teaching under the CAO an entrant must have Honours Irish. However the other compulsory subjects at Leaving Cert, English & Maths do not require Honours Leaving Cert results for entry to Primary Teaching.

Why is this? Is it because The Government, Ministers & Department believe it is less important to have high calibre English & Match Teachers at primary level then Irish? Or is it because having Honours Irish enabled to them provide jobs for the yokel Gaelgoir’s?

Finally up until about 200 years ago Irish was mainly a spoken language, so why have our Educators decided it is more important to conjugate verbs then speak the language? If you go to France on your holidays you are not expected ask for your shopping my writing out everything grammatically correct, you are expected to speak or at least attempt to speak the language.

I am now an Educational psychologist and reflecting back on my education is something I have done as it relates to my career. There are a few problems that cause an issue with learning Irish. Teachers don’t necessarily know fluent Irish. The system does not allow students to be immersed in the language and the amount of time to learn it is minimal. Compulsory Irish hold back quite intelligent young people from accessing certain careers, both educationally (with minimal points for ordinary level) and practically as with governmental jobs etc. Ireland’s nostalgia to the past needs to come into the present. Culturally we can have Irish and promote it heavily but NOT force it upon leaving cert pupils!

Nein

Like so many people, I have passed my verdict on Irish and its teaching by walking away. I doubt if I have ever uttered two consecutive sentences since my schooldays.

If it was optional and completely reformed, we might actually want to learn it! You spend most of the time having poetry and stories rammed down your throat instead of actually learning to speak the language. I’d love to be able to speak Irish but instead of that, I can answer the common questions asked in the oral exam and I can tell you all you need to know about mothuchàin!

I don’t subscribe to this “country without a language is a country without a soul” carry on…the very phrase itself is dripping with guilt and masochism. In fairness, if people think proficiency in the “cupla focail” will somehow contribute to our national self-esteem they are sorely mistaken – look at the people who say it : mad ole concertina playing national school teachers completely divorced and insulated from reality! :) (Well that’s a generalization I know, but ya know the type!:) I liked Irish in school, I did very well in it, I have no bitterness about it. I have bearly uttered 10 words of it since then. What I don’t understand is why it has to be compulsory to the Leaving Cert, it occupies a disproportionate place in the Leaving Cert syllabus than it deserves. If it is about keeping the language alive -concentrating on Oral and Aural Irish should be the focus until Junior Cert and then provide a poetry/history of language/prose etc option to Leaving for those who wish to pursue it. Why we torment thousands of Irish students with the current method of teaching is beyond me, when frankly the energy, money and ability should be directed elsewhere and we might even achieve greater proficiency in Irish while we are at it!

The argument is always made that people are better at French or Spanish than they are at Irish. I believe it should be taught as a foreign language all the way through primary and second level. Let people choose to study all the literature in third level or translate them into English to be studied as part of the English curriculum along with existing texts. It should all be about conversation in Primary school.

It’s ridiculous that any subject should be compulsory at Leaving Cert. level, and if that means the end of the Irish language, then so be it. People will choose whichever language suits them (already happening) and trying to use Irish as a compulsory subject to change that has already failed. In any case, It’s not up to someone with a particular political view to decide what language should be spoken, not in a democracy.

totally agree with Sean the language should be broken into two parts one subject should be purely focussed on speaking and enjoying the language and another subject should be created which includes studying poetry, essay writing etc. for those who are interested. main focus should be on people using and speaking the language, if it is not spoken it will die. T?r gan teanga, t?r gan anam.

If the state was serious about Irish then all schools would be Irish medium. There is no point in making people learn the language for they will hate it. Anyway the way it is taught is mad how can you learn how to read and write a language when you cant talk it. Irish medium primary schools is they way forward.

For my leaving cert I learnt off Irish essays never understood a word, but still got a b

Don’t get me wrong, part of me agrees that Irish should remain compulsory however part of me also looks at the negative impact imposing a compulsory tag on a subject has.
Let me use the making compulsory of history in secondary schools as an example of this.
When I went to secondary, history was optional past third year and it was great as you got people who were truly interested and curious in learning it doing the subject.
But now that it’s compulsory, you don’t get that so much. Making a kid do a subject because he/she HAS to do it does not always create a positive memory for the child.
The subjects they do have to be subjects that they are interested in doing to nurture an interest for the future..

Well, I’m not Irish, but I’m coming from Brittany. Brittany is a small region in the north west of France, that used to be independent (until something like 500 years ago), and had its own language “Breton”. Unfortunately, we did let our native language fall into disuse and ended up speaking only french, at least for most of us! I find it a shame that we let that happen, “Breton” is so beautiful and I would love to speak it.

Irish has the chance to have a very beautiful language (though really hard to read, write, speak), that hasn’t died yet. I think it would be a shame to leave it suffer the same fate as “Breton”, which from what I gathered during the six month that I’ve been living in Ireland for, seems to be slowly but surely happening.
The only place where I actually managed to meet people speaking Irish was in Aran Islands, and Achill Island. Most people that I talked too, would just go and dispatch the language as a mere school annoyance, that isn’t useful at all. Well, sure enough, this doesn’t look like a useful or easy language compared to English, but why should everybody keep on wanting to speak English all the time? Isn’t it good to get some diversity, and at the same time keep your language alive?

So I obviously think that it should be taught in school, so that everybody, should they choose to, could speak Irish with any other fellow Irish.
Obviously, it shouldn’t be a boring subject taught like a useless language, but taught as a real language, that you could actually go on use all over Ireland.
And yeah, I think primary school as well should teach Irish from a very early age. That way they would just naturally learn Irish without even noticing it, and it wouldn’t seem like such a hardship to learn it!

Please, don’t let Irish disappear, you would definetly regret it later if you do!

This notion of ‘tears when irish homework has to be done’ irritates me so much! Most children hate all homework, regardless of subject. It’s negative and hostile comments about the Irish language from their parents that encourages children to feel the same. Every child dislikes a particular subject in school, why the extra drama if that subject happens to be irish??! Sometimes it’s maths, sometimes it’s English. There are never any calls to remove those subjects from the curriculum

The current secondary school Irish curriculum is terrible, I love Irish and would love to be fluent but it was the archaic curriculum in secondary that made me loose interest! Expecting 16-18 year olds to have an interest in archaic poems and stories is ridiculous, the curriculum needs to be updates and modernised for students to have an interest!

Of course it should be. A nation that loses its own native tongue is already conquered…

I was a good student of Irish until I began secondary school. The jump from what we had been doing to what was expected was impossible. I dont remember much instruction on how to actually speak or form sentences. I grew to hate the language as it was forced down my neck and I remember always being given huge passages to translate…what was the point in that, I wasn’t allowed a dictionary in the exams? I have never had any interest in Irish since then. Years later I have taken up Spanish and while I seem to be doing a lot better in that then I ever did in Irish there are still huge differences I can see between other European language learners and ourselves. I really think we need to be taught grammar in school. Once we have a grasp of grammar it is far easier to learn another language. How can I use a direct object pronoun when I don’t know what that is?I know grammar is different in each language but it is far easier to follow when you have a grasp of your own grammatical terms. Secondly I agree, focus on speaking and have a literature module for those who have an interest. Language is for communication and that means speaking. Thirdly I think Irish should be optional, I never liked Irish but I love Spanish. That does not mean I am not Irish or love Ireland, no, I just prefer Spanish. You will work so much harder at a subject you love then one that is forced.

It should be compulsory but not examined. Like PE. Take the pressure off, make it more fun, emphasis on speaking the language rather than learning poems etc

No…. Replace it with computer programming. A far more beneficial subject that should be compulsory in this day and age

It should not be compulsory at any primary or secondary. Same goes for Religion.

Learning Irish is irrelevant. Better off learning a language that benefits you when abroad. Irish is useless, I don’t mean to sound harsh but we all know it’s true.

How many students come out of school fluent in French? German? Spanish?

Looking at the results so far, an overwhelming majority (75%) of those that expressed an opinion want Irish to be optional at secondary school level.

This rather negates the infantile piece of lazy journalism by Aodhán Ó Deá, also on journal.ie but when one digs deeper, we see that the lad is funded by Irish language quangos, so no surprise there.

Fine Gael failed to follow through on their pre-election promise to make Irish optional at LC and this will cost them dearly in the next GE as many like-minded business people and employers understand the shortage of STEM and foreign language skills among our second and third level graduates.

Nil!

Teach a few phrases and a bit of language history and leave it at that. The language is not just dead, it has been dead for a very long time. The vocabulary itself now is limited with every second word english anyway.

If someone wants to study it let them do it in college as part of a celtic studies course or something.
They should be pushing German, French, science etc., rather than wasting time on it.

BTW fair play to all the excellent french and german teachers in secondary schools in Ireland – they never get enough praise. I came out with great French after only a few years and it still stands to me.

I still get cold sweats though about learning bales full of irish poems about women jumping off cliffs or committing suicide and living in misery, but more than anything the teachers were all criminally bad and barely showed up most of the time. The whole enterprise is more cultural scam job than teaching.

The fact is that in the 20th and 21st Century the Irish culture that shaped us was by irish writers using the English language their own unique way – that should be celebrated more, not the 18th, or 19th century ireland of famine and colonialism.

I do think though that the should replace the language teaching with an Irish culture class – including our folk tales and myths etc., which have sadly been neglected

i despise the Irish language due to being forced to learn it in school. It didn’t even make a difference as I am now 22 and couldn’t say a single sentence if I was asked to. I hate hearing it on tv when Irish presenters throw in a word or two, i change the radio or news whenever they start blabbering it. If learning it was made optional for me as a child I probably wouldn’t have chosen it but I also wouldn’t hate it like I do now.

No.
Its useless.
Let students pick a subject they might have an interest in not a dying language that will be of no use to them.

Very interesting poll…

Whilst I fully agree with Seán & Leonard, I do not agree with K. Doran.

I think Irish should be thought as a core subject to regain interest in it.

I think a major issue with people in their 30′s today – possibly above – is Irish was drummed into us in school. Been schooled in a catholic school, if students made a mistake during lessons the aul bata mór was taken out removing the fun factor of learning such a wonderful language.

So, schools should find a method that sparks interest in Irish and promotes wilful learning, rather than beating it into students

As for religion, rather than just teach about one religion why not include a theology lesson, teaching about world religions?

If Irish had not been taught in school I would be unable to speak it! I would not have this whole new other world open to me! I would be the poorer.

D’fhéadfainn mo thuairimí ar fad a thabhairt trí mheán na Gaeilge, ach cé a thuigfeadh mé? Táim cinnte go bhfuil roinnt daoine i measc na léitheoirí a bheidh in ann mé a thuiscint ach faraor is mionlach atá ann. Ach don mhionlach sin, táim cinnte gur cúis shonais daoibh í go bhfuil e indéanta cumarsáid a dhéanamh sa teanga álainn seo. Beidh sé suimiúil cé chomh diúltach a bheifí i leith mo chuid tuairmíochta Gaeilge.

I believe as our official language it should be compulsory, but there must be changes in how it is taught. We don’t learn French or German in this way, because it does not work. Primary school teachers have a high level of Irish, so why not conduct everything in Irish (with the exception of English). Creating this foundation in Irish would highly improve language capability and confidence; and promote students’ willingness to practice Irish. Irish is a beautiful language and one I wish I spoke fluently, and while I tried, the way it was taught was to insure an adequate mark in examinations but no real understanding of the language.

We definitely need a reform in the way it’s taught. An Cearrbhach Mac Caba won’t exactly benefit you in life the way learning vocabulary of any language will! We can still appreciate our poetry and prose but efforts to preserve it through the curriculum have severely backfired leaving most students with a dislike for it!

Irish is an easy language, however I struggled with it simply because of how it was taught. Even moved to a school where Irish was optional, because i had such a hard time with it. Learning Irish though Irish works for a certain percentage of the class not all. Also, students with Dyslexia will struggle, so having it optional for these students is important to their overall confidence. I don’t agree that Irish should be lost as our language. Does anyone remember the days that students got extra points if they did the leaving cert in Irish?
We really need to address how it is taught and give kids options.

The issue is not with the language, or even the teacher’s, it’s with the curriculum and how it is taught. This, in my opinion, goes for German, French, Spanish etc as well. I came out of secondary school with basic conversational Irish however I lived in a Gaeltacht from 8-18. So my conversational Irish comes from where I live, not what I was taught. I studied German for 5 years and can say very little. Even if you put me in a situation where I had to speak it I think I’d struggle severely. After 5 years.

The entire educational system needs reform. This question gets rolled out every so often and people have (understandably) strong feelings on it, but I feel it should be more “Should any subjects be compulsory at 2nd level” rather than consistently bringing up Gaeilge. At Leaving Cert level I don’t think anything should be compulsory, but again that’s relying on the education system being good enough to Junior Cert level that everyone has a good basis in English, Maths, Irish etc. Which it isn’t.

I’m Swedish, my husband is Moldovan, we gave our children English as a first language, because we thought it was more important to give them the language of the country they’re growing up in, but now when they are studying both our mother tongues out of their own choice it would be nice if they got some support in learning Swedish and Moldovan instead of Irish, two languages they are actually using. Irish is beautiful but it should be optional. I was forced to learn Finnish, because my mother is Finnish, I hated it and it wasn’t until I moved there in my teens that I learnt enough to manage, now when all my Finnish relatives are gone I don’t use it any more, but I love hearing it, I love Finnish music. Forcing a language in school will kill it, not bring it back to life. The Irish English is already a different version of English, funnier for sure.

I voted No, but I would have no problem with in being compulsory to junior cert level. But most certainly not to leaving cert level. It is disadvantaging students with maths and science based strengths.

Is Irish were not a compulsory subject I daresay the vast majority of English-speaking schools would immediately drop it because there would simply be no demand for it. I can only speak for myself, I love the language and use it every day, in a Gaelscoil, and outside of education, in sporting and social occasions. Therefore the language is categorically not dead. VERY underused yes, but not dead. The Irish curriculum in its current state is atrocious. Communication is the point of any language. I would instantly drop the literature and focus instead on encouraging the oral language. If the course were changed to these requirements I would have no worries about it not being a compulsory subject because I feel if people were open-minded and gave it a chance a lot of them would like it. As it stands though, the Irish course does no one any favours and were it not compulsory there would be no hope for the future of the language.

The poll should have asked should Irish be optional for the Leaving Cert.

Language is evolutionary! Galige is in my view, on life support but with little to no chance of recovery.

It currently has some tangible connection to our past and the nostalgia that is conditioned into many of us keeps it clinging on to existence. With time, this I would predict will fade further and people will not bother to learn it on a mass scale, just as they don’t learn old Galige or the grunts that the current and of thousands of other dead languages evolved from.

Globalisation is not all bad! From an outside perspective it may initially appear more homogenous but to an individual life becomes far more rich and variable. How limited was life in Ireland in only the 1950s by comparison to the rich variety of today’s world?? Would you go back?? One global language can only enhance this variety in my view, with easy access to all to information and ideas from within all sub-societies within our global society.

For those that wish to pursue Galige as a hobby or interest, it’s great to have the option and I hope you get great enjoyment from it. Due to globalisation there are literally millions of additional interests that could now also be pursued by those looking for something different. So many things that could never have been imagined in 1950s Ireland or before.

Let’s not waste childrens education on hobby fodder!

NO. Its a useless language. Better to learn Polish since its the second most used language in Ireland.

One has to ask the question WHY is the irish language still being taught badly? The answer can only lie with teachers that have very little interest in the language itself. If that is the case then the language is well and truly doomed. I think it should be scraped at primary level and introduced as an optional subject in second level.

That way, teachers in primary can spend more time in areas that they have an interest in (the primary curriculum is huge; science, literacy, maths, music, art)

Also at second level students can take it up at the same time as french and german. (if they so choose) As a consequence they will have a more positive approach to the language and be taught by a teacher who enjoys the subject themselves.
Finally the irish language should be modeled on the same system as french and german at second level; more speaking, scrap the literature and essay writing!

The final question posed before the poll is: “Could poetry, prose and history of the Irish language be taken out of the current course and put into a separate, optional subject?”

As a Leaving Cert. student with a grá for Gaeilge, I believe this is a better question to be asking. Its no wonder that almost half of respondents so far are in favor of removing the compulsory status of Gaeilge. The education system turns the language into a nightmare for many, who grow to hate it during their time in school. I myself had much less regard for it before spending some time in the Gaelteacht.

If Irish is presented as a ‘dead’ language then people see it as pointless. But the fact of the matter is its a rich part of our culture which many seem keen to forget.

If we present Gaeilge as irrelevant, it will be. It would be much better to encourage actual fluency, with an optional, literary focused subject. That students can leave school with less Irish than French/German/Spanish is deplorable, and a sign that we’re simply doing it wrong.

The old slogan of ‘Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam’ might be taking things to extremes, but it has always been important to the people of this country to preserve their independent identity. Why start stripping it away now?

Irish, like Latin, should be available only to students who express an interest in it.
The current approach is just ridiculous.
The language of this country is English. Live in the real world!
The printing of all government papers in two languages is simply laughable and in this economic climate an unnecessary waste of money which could be used to alleviate the unjust tax burden laid upon a people already pushed to the limits.

I would like to see it as compulsory up to the Junior Cert. Following that, it should be optional. It’s not to everyone’s favour, but I don’t think we should abandon it as a core subject or make it optional until the later years. I can see the reasoning for making it optional right after Primary School, but I would still keep it there until the end of the Junior Cert.

They really need to look at how it is taught if they want to see a proper change. When I had to sit through it, there was more emphasis on the poetry and stories than the actual vocabulary itself. I could write a 4 page essay but I couldn’t hold a basic conversation until I was in 6th year. I always felt well chuffed when I could throw a few sentences back and forth with someone else in Irish, but then the hate for the language would creep back in when I had to answer questions about the themes of An Cearrbhach Mac Caba.

I could probably still write a basic essay about how I won the lottery while working in a part-time job on my summer holidays. If I’m feeling generous, there’ll be a paragraph about what I spent the winnings on.

I’m rather amazed by the people who think Irish is useless.

If it’s so useless why is it used so much in standard English conversation? What’s the English word for Crag? Banshee? Smashing? Galore? Gob? Hooligan? Keening? Phoney? Slew? Slob? Slogan? Smithereens? Tory? Whiskey?

Why do so many of you have Irish names? Or are you not aware of their origins?

If you don’t think it’s useful, you don’t understand the value of language.

I think everyone should be taught the language of their country! Start then early when they first go to school, it will be second nature to them in no time at all. There should be no need for exams in how it is spoken or written either. Less stress for those learning it then.

Irish is an official state language. It should be treated the same as English. If one is compulsory then both should be. Would could equally make an argument that English literary studies are a waste of time and resources.

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas?

As a Leaving Cert student myself, I believe it’s very important for Irish to be taught in secondary schools in the country. The course itself is stupid and very long for honours. But don’t you think it’s important for us to speak our national language? The Spanish speak Spanish, the French speak French. Why can’t the Irish speak Irish?

I think it should be compulsory but not at the level it is at! There should be two different Irish’s thought! One for everyone with no difference in level! Where you learn grammar and vocab and emphasis on oral an understanding what you read! The other should be essays and poems and literary stuff! I love the Irish language but I can’t speak a word of it because I wasn’t thought it right through the years! The emphasis should e on learning the language not learning poems and essays off! That doesn’t help sustain a language! Personally I think the whole education system needs an overhaul!

A easy solution to this would be to turn all primary schools into galescoil, that way all of the children starting school at age five would be able to actually speak Irish by age twelve then it would be appropriate to decide weather the language should be compulsory in secondary school. I’m assuming that all primary school teachers have a level of spoken Irish above that of a twelve year old.

T?r gan teanga, t?r gan anam.

It would be a terrible thing if we lost our language even more than we already have. It’s good that I had to study it until 6th year, because only then did I start to understand how important it is to keep it alive. But what everyone’s saying here is absolutely true – there must be a change in how it’s taught and a focus on oral, conversational language instead of written.

As someone that studied Irish all the way through school but now can’t speak a word I still think it should be compulsory. It’s our native tongue and if it becomes optional I’m afraid it would die out which would be a shame. I would love to be able to speak Irish and after all the years in school learning I should be fluent, I was a pretty good student. So I think that’s where the problem lies. We should stop trying to teach it like english, just teach people to speak it, then if they want to study it further there could be extra modules that get bonus leaving cert points or else they can just do it in uni. Like I said if I could speak it fluently I’m pretty sure me and my friends would use it alot. Esp if you meet an Irish person abroad you’d def use it. I feel the same about the way French and German are thought. Whats the point of leaning these subjects for so long and not being able to speak them when you finish school. Surely it points to something fundamentally wrong in the way they are thought. If you can speak a language you can pretty much read it, your writing might be off but like I said you could study it further if you wanted to. Being able to speak it is the main thing. Otherwise it’s useless.

I still cant speak it fluently after 10 years learning it! But the likes of des bishop can learn it in under a year, doesnt make sense!

Gaelic – An Pearoid Marbh

I’m disappointed that you haven’t allowed for the idea of keeping spoken language compulsory and having literature optional, therefore I can’t vote honestly on the poll.

I agree it is a terrible way of learning it. However, it is still a very important part of our culture and history. It survived through 800 years of british oppression and is the oldest language in Europe. That is something we should be damn proud of. Do we want it to go down the same route as Scots-Irish (Gaelic) or Manx-Irish and become extinct? A language is a huge part of who we are. What we need to concentrate more on is HOW we teach it, not IF we teach it. It should remain compulsory and I am sickened by how many people voted against their heritage. And I am not a fluent speaker. In fact, I’d say I am a very basic speaker of it. But I am proud of being Irish and what makes us so different to the rest of Europe. Without the language, we are homogenised Europeans. With it, we Irish-Europeans. The solution is to make ALL schools Gaelscoileanna, not eradicate it slowly from our memories, Typical FG.

Irish should be compulsary, the language is part of our heritage. If it were made optional most students would take the easy option and not choose it. Yes the teaching of irish needs to be changed , but changed rather than dismissed. Is linne an teanga agus ba choir an deis a thabhairt do gach einne i a fhoghlaim agus a usaid

I agree it is a terrible way of learning it. However, it is still a very important part of our culture and history. It survived through 800 years of british oppression and is the oldest language in Europe. That is something we should be damn proud of. Do we want it to go down the same route as Scots-Irish (Gaelic) or Manx-Irish and become extinct? A language is a huge part of who we are. What we need to concentrate more on is HOW we teach it, not IF we teach it. It should remain compulsory and I am sickened by how many people voted against their heritage. And I am not a fluent speaker. In fact, I’d say I am a very basic speaker of it. But I am proud of being Irish and what makes us so different to the rest of Europe. Without the language, we are homogenised Europeans. With it, we Irish-Europeans. The solution is to make ALL schools Gaelscoileanna, not eradicate it slowly from our memories, Typical FG. And if they want to make it only a choice, why don’t they do the same for those Irish people who want to give up english instead too? Fair is fair…..instead of eradicating the one thing that makes us Irish.

All primary and secondary schools should be gealscoileanna! As all students from gealscoileanna do better in all exams, no matter where they are from or their background. This would also show the students that Irish is a real language and not just a boring subject. Also doing the other subjects in Irish renforces the students Irish. Also students from gealsoileanna find it much easier to learn other languages. Also the Irish media has a role to play, the english language is renforced in children by TV radio and newspapers. As this is seen as the language of the real world.

There are so many reasons why I, and many others will not allow Gaeilge to become an optional subject on the leaving cert syllabus as it would be detrimental to the language. Firstly to point out that so many people who are in favour of the language being made optional fall back on the money spent on the Irish language. This is such a lazy argument. We are speaking about our national language here and the education system, therefore to say the money could be spent elsewhere does not equate i.e Many people have never claimed social benefits in this country but do not complain about that money being spent when it could be spent on the Irish language. In reality the issue is not the money that is being spent it is the way in which it is spent. I think we can all agree that all those in support of Gaeilge being a compulsary subject are recognising that there is a problem with the way it is taught and are offering great solutions to this if only we were listened to! It is very hard as a ‘Gaelgeoir’ to be under constant attack- being told nobody speaks the language and then being bullied when using it! I read a comment below complaining about having to resit the irish exam to become a teacher- its simple if you want to be a primary school teacher you need Irish, its exactly that negative attitude that I would never want my children to be subjected to. I think this is a serious issue! A teacher with a negative attitude towards the language will not get a job and suddenly teach the children Gaeilge in a positive inspiring way! Their negativity will be very apparent! As a nation we are only now grasping the idea of bilingualism and the benefits associated with it. When people say ‘ I never had to speak it again etc’ my answer to this is simple even if you never had to use the language again engaging in bilingualism in the first place was of benefit to you. As a bilingual child you posess better reasoning and social skills and a understanding and awareness of cultural differences. We have a beautiful unique language that is ours and can create bilingual children for generations to come, lets use it! There are people, like myself ( I run Art classes as Gaeilge for children) who make Gaeilge accessible and a functioning language in society, lets support this and make the language a language and not merely a subject! If everyone had a positive attitude towards Gaeilge it would filter down through generations. Lig dúinn ár dtéanga a labhairt!

It’s quite simple really. There are students who can competently speak Irish at the age of 12 and there are students who have still failed to grasp the language. We should be able to cater for both of these groups.

As a lifelong fluent Irish speaker, I shouldn’t have had to revert to learning the language as a foreign language upon entering secondary school. (And while many people would like to believe that the language is dead, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people like me when I went in to first year.) Let there be two subjects: Irish Language and Irish Literature. That way, I could have gone about studying Irish to the same standard as the English Leaving Certificate and others could have learned to speak Irish to a similar degree of fluency as Leaving Cert French.

The desire to scrap Irish is a weird one. We should try to investigate why we’re so keen to dump this huge chunk of our cultural history. If the majority of the country were in favour of bulldozing all Neolithic monuments, for example, someone would take the time to find out why. I don’t expect everyone to start living their lives through Irish but I do expect a more reasoned argument as to why we’d like to delete one of the oldest printed languages in Europe – not just “I found it boring in school” or “maths is more important”.

Making it optional now would ruin the nuances of the language which make it so culturally significant. Build the education system from the bottom up. Tap into the positive attitudes that people currently have regarding Irish, put systems in place to allow our native tongue to flourish on a daily basis and THEN give 15 year olds the choice to learn about “the boring stuff” about Irish. This decision should not be made lightly. Is beatha teanga í a labhairt – is beidh sí á labhairt agamsa go dtí lá mo bháis.

It shouldn’t be compulsory. English, Maths and one other European language of the schools choosing should be compulsory. Irish is a dead language like Latin and should be treated as such. (nothing against Latin – its awesome). Making it compulsory because “otherwise the students wouldn’t choose it” is a silly argument. I would presume the reason poetry etc is a part of the Irish curriculum is because it’s part of the English curriculum and to remove it would a statement that Irish is dead/ inferior – and we couldn’t have that

I am amazed all the advocates of the Irish language here – and not ONE has pointed the job the Israelis have done in reviving Hebrew in Israel as a case for a similar revival here…and things were worse for Hebrew than they ever were for Irish. In Israel the government offers free one to one tuition in Hebrew and interactive classes on-line for people of all ages, their education system is via the medium of Hebrew etc. I think if the Irish language lobby wanted to convince the general public of the worthwhile nature of a similar exercise here they should be pointing to the success of Israel. Of course they wont do that because then the crisis of conscience arises re the Palestine question and everybody feels that it is a little distasteful… Further proof in my opinion, that this caterwauling about the Irish language is nothing more than an identity crisis for people…

Ceapaim féin that the idea of having 2 seperate subjects has great merit. Taking the aspects out that are seen as boring and old fashioned could seriouly improve the outlook on the language and how it is taught in schools. As well as that skills in speaking irish are far more useful nowadays and a great community exists for those who are passionate about an teanga. That said I worry about the short term affects that making the subjects optional would have as, with such a negative outlook, the numbers would fall significantly before impoving. Could we split the subjects up and allow outlooks to improve before introducing a choice ???

Yes, but the manner in which it is taught needs to be radically overhauled and modernised.

This debate is centrally focused upon the leaving cert which is fine, but just pause a second as you need to consider your own frame of mind as to why you are against the language as you yourself didn’t succeed in achieving a fluency as you were unfortunate to be in an environment where learning it was a great challenge (as in my case), or are your views purely based upon leaving certificate results ect??

Both cases are understandable but consider the improvements and strides being made to modern education, Irish teachers now have a two year postgraduate rather than one, they are now being thought how to teach a spoken language using media such as computers ect which will make Irish more attainable. Having good books such as Gafa about teenagers themselves will spark a greater interest in the actual material. Again ask yourself would speaking my own language mean a lot to me? make me feel more of an individual in a largely English speaking area of the world,?

Patrick pearse said “it was’nt for the difference between tá is I joined the gaelic league” and yano if were being honest were not expecting linguistic geniuses after a school standard of a language (either in French, German or English for that matter ) but a standard where people can share a joke or two, call each other amadáin and talk generally about themselves, and if this conversion is composed of 65 percent Irish and the rest English, its not exactly a crime not to have every word in the dictionary when your speaking it for your own pleasure is it?
- is the leaving cert a true reflection on you academic qualities either, as it gets more hype that it deserves.

Would an Irish language such as this for the ordinary 5-8 man and woman be worth the leaving cert experience? – I think so

How can we expect primary school teachers, who don’t speak Irish to an acceptable degree of fluency, to teach young children Irish? We wouldn’t do it with any other subject. I think this explains a lot of the resentment towards the language.
Teachers of Irish at primary level should be competent in the language and could be moved from class to class, removing the necessity for every teacher to teach Irish.
Although the teaching unions say there is not a problem with the standard of Irish among their members, I recall a holiday in Gaoth Dobhair in Donegal which coincided with a Gaeltacht placement from one of the teacher training colleges.
While standing outside a well-known pub having a cigarette, (as you do), I tried conversing with some of the student teachers in Irish. They couldn’t string a single comprehensible sentence together!
And we expect these teachers to pass on the language to children?
Time for a basic rethink.

It should be compulsory or the language will die out forever. Those who don’t care are ridiculous.

I went to an Irish primary school and on to an English speaking secondary school. I’m still a fluent speaker.
I started learning Irish at the age of 3 and in secondary school, I was considered “weird” as I was literally the only fluent speaker out of 600 students. It’s an embarrassment that most of the people in this country can’t string a sentence together in their native tongue. However, it is most definitely how it is taught. I’ve asked many of my friends (who went through education speaking English completely) and they said it was like they were “taught to hate the language” as they were told it was too difficult and they’d never be good at it. An absolute disgrace.

http://www.youtube.com/codasgaeilge For people who want to see Irish in a more casual normal manner check out my Irish speaking only gaming channel, it’s a fun way to use your Irish!!

Keep it.