Or for that matter, a 16 year old who has sex with this 16 year old girlfriend. There is no gender equality in our legal system.

Fully agree Shirley and jimboandbear. There needs to be more options on this poll to allow for these scenarios.

Why just foreigners Declan? Surely the crime is the same regardless of a person’s nationality or ethnicity?

I think that there should be more clarity in the definition of a sex offender,rather than having a blanket term to describe all offenders. A rapist is a sex offender. A paedophile is a sexual deviant. I imagine you could argue all day about the classifying the various types of offenders. Personally I believe a paedophile should be tagged,until such time as laws are passed that will allow the worst offenders to be executed. ( that is not meant as a joke ). I get annoyed as hell when the civil rights brigade start defending the offender and ignoring the victim.It is a very difficult problem to approach with a blanket solution.If you vote yes are you voting for all offenders and if you vote no are you also voting for all offenders. Tagging is a definite option for some of the more serious offences ,and I include rape as one of the more serious offences ,by a long way. Some other offences would probably not be considered so serious ,although they are sex offenders if convicted. Possession of certain types of pornography is a sex offence.Its a very large grey area that needs more specific clarification .

Surely going to gaol for however many years is the price? As far as I’m concerned, if you’ve done the time you’ve paid your debt to society. Electronic tagging should only be used in cases of parole.

Jail time or not, they are still sexual offenders who are let back into society. And because they are sexual offenders,

I would think the likelihood of them being a repeat offender is higher than that of a first time offender.

If a sexual assaulter is tagged, and they have no intention of breaking the law again, then they have nothing to worry about.

Friend of mine was raped & almost killed about fifteen years ago.

The guy went to jail, served seven years, refused council king while in there & was released.

Three days after release, he was picked up in the same area having assaulted a girl (who thankfully wasn’t raped). He was stopped by two polish guys who spotted what was going on & beat the crap out of him.

Leopards & spots.

All perpetrators of violent crimes should have GPS chips embedded in them in prison. Forever tagged.

I believe it should depend on the crime committed. Not all sexual offenders are have the same mindset or would reoffend Three examples come to mind

1) sexual child abuse. I think they should have a tag for life.

2) rapist? I don’t know.
Serial rapists should have a tag for life. But should someone who had too much drink on a night and shared a bed with someone but got the wrong message and acted completely out of character? If they pleaded guilty and served their time, are they likely to reoffend? Do they deserve to be tagged for life?

If it was remediated rape then I think they should.

3) unlawful cardinal knowledge?

What about the case recently where a 20 year old man and 16 year girl were in love, but her parents didn’t approve of him. They reported it to the cops and he was found guilty, even though the girl in court said it was always consensual? Should he wear a tag afterwards, even though they are now a item?

Each case is unique and I think if a person is likely to reoffend, only that type should be electronicly tagged

Electric tagging no! 200000 volts of electricity yes

Definitely have to agree with you on that one, should be done on a case to case basis.

The above comment was directed at Falstaff.

“Unlawful CARDINAL knowledge?” lol – a lot guilty of that too.

OU812, and how exactly would a tag have stopped that? A location isn’t really all that useful – the Gardaí won’t be monitoring it, and even if they are then they won’t know if there is anything sinister going on until it’s too late.

This is true . If they have no intention of re offending then they shouldn’t be worried.

Paul I agree fully with all of that. There will be some who claim that this threatens civil liberties or human rights. I would be in favour of using any technology available to monitor persistent offenders. Frankly, I myself am far more interested in the civil liberties and human rights of the victims of persistent offenders.

Agree with both Paul and mister there! Civil liberties would be the buzzword if such measures were brought in, the likes of daly, Wallace et al would Ava field day! The country is way too soft on law breakers

Mister, not just the civil rights of victims, but of ordinary innocent citizens going about their lawful business. The rights of victims and ordinary citizens should take precedence over those of recidivist offenders, especially recidivist sex offenders.

Or ‘Rapist’ tattoo, or whatever sexual offense they’ve committed…

That’s ok if they actually did it. I know a family torn apart by an accusation. The accused did time, was released and years later the two girls, as adults admitted they had made it up. Their mother had made them do it. (She had wanted to destroy this mans life)
I’m for justice. Not extreme measures.

So many people saying “No but should be monitored”. Isn’t tagging an easier form of monitoring? I’m sure the costs of monitoring are much higher than tagging. The option was to tag or have someone monitor them i.e. regular phone calls, sign into Garda station. Someone close to you is raped by this convicted and known rapist. Their is only circumstantial evidence so cannot be convicted again. I’m sure a few naysayers would chance their mind.

Certain convictions should require tagging no questions. How many convicted people go on to reoffend? Anyone with a criminal history should be tagged for life. Tough s**t. Safer for all of us ordinary citizens.

Id second that!

Some good points there Abbi. No idea how I’d cope or what I’d do if I was that poor chap.

On the brighter side of life, fantastic pair of pins you have there!!

Some good points there Abbi. No idea how I’d cope if I was that poor chap. Something like that would be very hard to shake off.

On the brighter side of life, fantastic pair of pins you have there!!

I hope the mother was jailed for that .

here here!!

I agree. However, paedophiles are not the only kind of sex offender.

Have you got evidence to back that up or are you a typical tabloid believer. Where are your facts. A sex offender with one conviction and a burglar with 60-70 convictions yeah I wonder which one is the real reoffender

A boy of 16 who has sex with a 16 year old girl in this country can be done for statutory rape.

I would imagine what we are talking about here is forcible rape. Statutory rape is however something we need to discuss, especially seeing as its existence merely demonises something which happens regardless of whether it is “illegal” or not. We shouldn’t be preventing sex between minors, we should be educating about safe sex, sexual awareness, sexual safety, sexual health.

Well seeing as the age of criminal responsibility is 10 it stands that a 10 year old boy who has sex with a 16 year old girl could potentially stand to be charged if it was brought to the DPP.

Yeah that’s what I said but do you think he should be tagged and put on the register, I don’t

It’s a different issue Dermot.
No, he shouldn’t be tagged, but the law shouldn’t exist in the first place.

With all due respect while what all you said is true the question was about convicted sex offenders. The majority of child sex abuse happens in the child’s home a paedophile is prolific in seeking out new victims preferably vulnerable if convicted a tag would give authorities an idea where his new hunting ground is

Think this has been done in the US and UK but had to be withdrawn in the UK for privacy and civil liberties reasons. Not sure if it’s really beneficial as it seemed to cause more hysteria then good.

Fred, your post is silly. If paedophiles, rapists, repeat burglars etc were tagged and their whereabouts stored on computer then if there was a rape or an abduction or they went near where there are children then they could be caught by mapping their location in time with criminal events. This would be a massive deterrent.

PS There is a SF book by Ian M Banks where violent criminals are followed for the rest of their life by a small robot, a bit like a drone, and stopped committing more crimes but this is a step in the right direction.

I see your point. I was thinking of the tags more as a real-time prevention tool, but this system might work as a deterrent.

Mandatory sentencing is the only answer. Many of the Judges live in cloud cuckoo land.

Mandatory sentencing is very questionable constitutionally. It is accepted tentatively by the judiciary at the moment given its very limited and specific uses, if it becomes wide scale I would imagine there would be an intriguing constitutional challenge that I can’t see the Supreme Court throwing out.

They shouldn’t be given any burial rights either, cremate them and flush it down the toilet. Wipe them from existence, a small matter but it sticks in the mind!

I fully agree, Lenore. I used to think we were a fairly liberal society, but once the mob is asked for their opinion they are just that, a mob baying for blood with torches and pitchforks. It’s scary really!

Lenore if this happened to you I would suspect your tone and attitude would change very quickly.

What is your solution? Let them sickos out and give them jobs as child minders?

True Jason. I wonder do the people ranting about hanging and firing squads really care about the victims or are just using these topics as an excuse to let out some inner violent fantasy.

What a totally moronic comment Declan. Really.

Just to be really clear (as there seems to be at least one person around this morning with a rudimentary grasp of English) the fact that I take issue with concentration camp justice and on the spot executions as espoused by some truly ignorant people does not mean I think for a second sexual or violent offenders should have an easy time of it. Quite the opposite as should be obvious to anyone with more than a single brain cell.

@lenore what has a grasp on english got to do with this? . You still havent said what punishment you think is fair? All you are doing is been critical but offer no solutions. Are you just trolling or you just been ignorant?

OK Declan. Can we agree (as per my original point) that modern states can’t engage in torture, mutilation and slow, painful methods of execution?

Lets agree that and actually have a proper discussion.

What else would you expect people to want for offenders who rape, mutilate and murder young children and women! Look at that poor girl in India! I personally wish all kinds of horrible things on those evil b@sterds… Does that make me evil? I don’t think so! Someone who is willing to cause so much pain to others should be made to feel just as much pain themselves before hey are put away for life or put to death!

@ Lenore I disagree modern states can mutilate or toture or execute people. The USA does alot of executions and tortures as example. This isnt the ideal world and the punishment must fit the crime simple as.

I’m in agreement with Lenore.

The absolute sheer stupidity and mob mentality shown in the last few days on here is incredible.

The “If it was your sister…” argument is stupid. That’s not how the justice system works or should work. The victim is not the judge, juror or executioner. To the person who said the victim should chose the punishment, congratulations, that is the stupidest comment posted this year.

My questions to the mob:
Do you want to live in a civilised country?
Do you want justice or vengeance?
Do you want to become an animal like the ones you despise?

all the ,’ hang em high’ crew are full of hot air!!! its all talk, other wise things in Ireland ( on many issues) would have changed

@ Billie

My god you are some piece of work. If you were abused or raped wouldnt you want a severe sentence for that person? .
As of now 2013 there is NO justice for victims of such horrible crimes. These crimes are a life sentence for many victims but ridiculous soft sentences for offenders.

If found guilty why shouldn’t the victim have the option to hand down punishment?

What’s this crap about the mob . People want severe punishment for animals destroying innocent peoples lives. Why should these animals get away with light sentences people want justice and if that means things like death penalty or 1000 years in prison so be it.

If my brother or father did some of these things I would be sick and be glad for them to be executed or put in jail for life for potentially ruining another person or persons life.

Totally disgusting and you should be adhamed for defending these people with soft sentences and not asking for maximum penalty possible or a change in the law to make punishment more severe.

I’m not defending the animals that did those crimes. I don’t think the current laws do enough and there has to be changes made.

Here’s the important part, where our opinions are different. You are an extremist. You want vengeance rather than justice. You want blood. I believe in proper justice. For example, I’d like to see any offenders who don’t go to rehab get far harsher punishments, including permanent incarceration.

Victims should not get a say in the verdict or sentencing. It’s not how a civilised society works. Any other way means the system is not fair.

What if it happened to me? I’d want revenge, I wouldn’t want justice, which is exactly why I should have no say in the outcome of the trial or sentencing. If you can’t see the problem there then you can’t be helped.

We have reached the 21st century, you’re gung ho violent streak serves nothing but fuelling more violence.

@ Billie i totally agree with alot of what you said. However I am no extremist I just want proper justice. :-)

At the end of the day its all about ensuring victims get all the help they need. Hopefully a severe sentence against whoever done the crime helps in the recovery process if that is possible to recover.

How we get to that stage who knows but what we do know the punishment does not fit the crime as of now.

@Billie I wouldn’t bother trying to make a reasoned contribution. A combination of news stories have kicked off hysterical opinion with half the posters on here believing we now live in a war zone as opposed to what is still a relatively safe country and nothing short of an Oliver Cromwell approach to law and order will save us. Anyone who points out the obvious flaws in state sanctioned torture or murder is automatically in favour of letting every sex offender loose to do what they’d like. Total tabloid fodder, too lowbrow for even the Daily Mail.

Mostly do not respond to rehabilitation! Watch deliver us from evil.
Monitoring or death are the only options. We could only get away with monitoring though

Thanks – I’ll have to check that film.

I agree with tagging, I also agree with an on line offenders list, do you have an on line listing in Ireland ?
In all the years I have worked with offenders I have never once had one say it was his fault and he had committed a crime .
In Australia we can check to see who has offended in and around where you live, rehabilitation has about 1% of working and most offenders say yes to rehab because it looks good on their file.

Yep it is very shocking.

You are wrong. Some people just don’t want to join your uncivilised mob.

You can’t solve violence with more violence. You are no better than the animals who do these crimes.

Everyone wants to see them monitored, tagged and locked up for life if needs be.

Just because some of us aren’t lowering ourselves to indulging in warped, sadistic fantasies (which are never going to happen) about what we’d do to the perpetrators doesn’t mean anyone thinks they should get away with it – quite the opposite.

There’s some comments here that would strongly recommend whoever made them to call into their local A&E and ask to see the psychiatrist.

…or sewn up! It’s not just men!

Really they have the highest rate of reoffending. Where did you get your facts from the usual trash tabloids. Check your stats again they have the lowest rate of reoffending not the highest.

Well, for starters by examining the numbers and related reports produced by our own Justice Department, and considering the issue in a rather less simplistic manner than you appear to be doing. If the Justice Department constitutes a tabloid in your mind, we have a very different definition of the term.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf/Files/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf

To begin with, I think I made it fairly clear in my initial post that I was referring to a specific subtype of sexual offenders – repeat (the clue is in the name, there) violent sexual offenders, not some drunk convicted of public indecency by taking a piss in Stephen’s Green, which incidentally will also see you labelled a “sex offender”, which skews the statistics and would indeed lead you to the conclusion that sex offenders have lower rates of recidivism… unless of course you actually stop to *think* about the numbers provided for more than 30 seconds.

I also use the term recidivism not only to mean reoffending in the sense of repeat subsequent convictions for the same crime, but the number of similar crimes committed by the time a conviction is acquired. The pattern of conviction for sex offenders is, according to our own Justice Dept here, admittedly rather different for certain types of sex offenders than it is for perpetrators of crimes of different natures, such as violent but non-sexual or financial crimes. Violent serial sex offenders are likely to be subject to initial conviction later in life (p.20), and have committed a greater number of similar offences by that time, so will frequently have fewer convictions despite having committed a greater number of crimes by the time it reaches court than, say, your garden-variety burglar. That’s not even taking into account the widely-acknowledged underreporting of sexual crimes relative to other categories.

The key is not only to “check your stats”, it’s to actually consider them critically.

Wow, you certainly showed that A-hole, Grace. And look, not response. I think you owned him.

How would you do that to female sex offenders?

If they are castrated that would only stop the rape not the violence. It is proven that rape has very little to do with sex and more to do with power.

Killing them isn’t a solution Anne. It might seem like a good deterrent but it hasn’t solved the murder problem in America. Why would it work here? I say this with total sympathy for what may have been done to you or someone you love, but the justice system doesn’t exist to exact vengeance for the victim. If you care about the victims, push for a solution that reduces the crime rate.

there is no solution to freaks like child serial rapists etc etc so i beg to differ i know killing them wouldnt be a deterrent For the victims i know they would sleep better knowing their is one less piece of worthless crap in this world as for other crimes it depends on whteher they have other problems such as gambling drinking drugs they have to be treated with a holistic apporoch

All I’m asking is that you think rationally about what you are advocating, Anne. We both agree that the death penalty won’t be a deterrent to sex offenders. Think about the fear and suffering experienced by old people who are attacked in their homes. Should we have the death penalty for aggravated burglary too? What about men who inflict years of pain and suffering on their spouses through physical abuse? Do we impose it for murder, manslaughter, drink driving that leads to a fatal accident? Where do you stop?
I’m not for one second saying that sex offenders shouldn’t be punished. Of course their victims have a right to feel safe and that justice has been done, but this has to be balanced with the needs of society too. As a society we should be putting our resources into a solution that works. Revenge killings are more the province of paramilitary groups and gangsters. Is that the sort of legal system you want?

@anne I really hope if you have kids that one of them goes out and commits a crime than lets see how you react.

Please do not compare ‘Quinns’ to sex offenders!! Different league altogether! You’re missing the point!!

Emma, the point I was trying to make is this is not about abusers, they should never be released while still a danger. This legislation applies to convicted criminals.

This is simply a way for the Government to release still dangerous criminals back into society, start with sex offenders and then start to apply across the board.

As for the Quinns’ – with their movement of assets away from creditors and utter contempt for the legal system, they believe – like Dunne and Fitxpatrick – most of the time quite rightly, that they are above the law

Simon with all due respect the poll we are discussing here is ‘should sex offenders be electronically tagged post release from prison, why you say this is not about abusers I don’t know?? Unless I have read the poll wrong?

yes but in these austier times a rope can be re-used time and again, bullits cant.

Another tabloid believer

No a child abuse survivor who knows leopards don’t change their spots
But still believes in a fair democratic process.

IF your story is true you are hardly going to be objective now are you. Not everyone goes on to reoffend and when you say you know actually you don’t because every person is different as in all crimes some will reoffend and some won’t and it is the ones that don’t are the ones that should be encouraged to live a law abiding life.

But how does a tag stop them reoffending? Are there particular manslaughter hotspots where convicts would not be allowed go? Or would tagging them just make you feel better?

Micro chip or tag – how does a locating device stop them committing crimes? If you stop sex offenders going to certain places they’ll find ways to rape and molest in other places. Tags will do little or nothing, but use a lot of police resources in the process.

Hi Fred, I’m not sure if I like the idea myself, but I gather that the idea of tagging certain criminals after release from prison is so that they can keep tabs on their whereabouts (Think a paedophile hanging around playgrounds or somesuch) and also act as a deterrent for the offender, as there whereabouts will always be known. IMO though, criminals that are considered a risk to society, should not actually be free in the first place. Its almost a no-brainer. Deemed a serious risk, then you can’t go free.
Microchipping may be a good way of keeping tabs on criminals that the judiciary have an aversion to jailing though, like burglars etc. It means that if people get burgled, and the technology is good enough, they could be placed at the scene etc. Now THAT may be handy.

If you would happily pull the switch I’d worry about your mental state of mind. You’d be a murderer.

Women sex offenders don’t have balls. how do you propose to deal with them?

But what good is the tag actually doing? Is a garda gonna watch where each offender goes 24/7? Will there be an automated system that alerts gardai when the wearer goes to particular places?
People seem to think the tag is some sort of crime detection device. All it does is monitor a person’s location. Offenders who want to reoffend will easily find ways around this.
A tag is a good way to enforce things like house arrest, but how does it stop a rapist?

Fred I’m sure patterns could be observed. It wouldn’t take a sophisticated system to set off alarm bells if a tagged person was going to the same place at 3am each morning.

Of course it wouldn’t be a catch all system but it would be better than nothing.

How does the system tell the difference between a sex offender who goes out with his friends every weekend and one who goes to the pub to prey on women? What about a sex offender who calls over to his girlfriend’s house late at night? How does a tag tell the difference between this and a sex attack. How many times will squad cars be sent out on bogus information. How much will this stretch resources? How long before the gardai stop taking the system seriously after countless false alarms?
OK it may prevent some genuine threats but what about all of the redundant alarm bells going off? Think of the thousands of wasted man hours.
In my opinion it is worse than nothing.