Of course. Lack of childcare is the main reason that many people can’t work, and can’t get training – FÁS schemes used to have schedules that were impossible for people minding schoolgoing children, for instance. Even at the height of the boom, people were prevented from working by the cost of childcare.
And a government-run scheme would, hopefully, be properly inspected and run to a high standard.

It’s a great argument for other countries. Who have at least semi-competent government. Here, however…

In ireland you get the offer and when the women take up the course places they’re told within weeks that there won’t be any jobs at the end of it. great fcuking craic isn’t it!!

Here’s an idea. Find 4 or 6 other families in the same situation. Each of you picks a day not to work where you will mind the children of the others while they do. You have no childcare costs and the kids grow up with friends.

Stop relying on the state to be your nanny.

How can you have an effective, modern and productive economy without having something like this.?

Daisy made a great suggestion and it got a load of red thumbs.

The article’s title should be changed. The only money “the government” has comes from tax payers. The title should be: “dear feckless parents, would you like the government to take money from the pockets of your fellow citizens to pay for your kid’s childcare, with a substantial amount of the collected figure going to fund generous pensions for the collectors”. That would be more honest at least.

I’m sure that some will now argue that state funded childcard is a social good. Maybe. But that’s not how this article is written. My advice to “entrepreneur Sarah NicLochlain” is to set up a childcare business.

“dear feckless parents, would you like the government to take money from the pockets of your fellow citizens to pay for your kid’s childcare, with a substantial amount of the collected figure going to fund generous pensions for the collectors”

Oooo, yes please. I mean, before my kid was born I paid enough in tax to send ten kids through four full years of college each and I didn’t get out of doing it because I hadn’t fathered them, so now it can be your turn to help out :P
(After all, I’ll wind up paying far more in tax in the years after child benefit stops so it’s not like I’m done with the tax thing forever).

:D

LOL No thanks, I don’t feel like helping you out. Try the troika.

get real

Completely agree Niall. That would be such a beautiful solution.

Sandra maybe you should get down off your vitriolic high horse an come up with something constructive. So far the only suggestion you have made is that only people who can 100% afford to pay for everything associated with raising a child, should have kids.
Using this logic only the extremely elite would have children. Is that what ulu want?
Every society in the world provides for their children from communist china to capitalist America. If you believe truly in what you say then you are dangerously deluded. Children are the future of society and we must provide for them, progressive ideals like the use of the elderly should be welcomed not dismissed without a moments thought.

grand parents have being filling this role for many generations.

Modern grandparents probably won’t be sticking around. When my kids are raised I’m planning to be off seeing the world…that’s if I have a cent to my name at that stage. It is an imaginative suggestion though.

parents should not have to fund education costs?????! are you for real???! as I said before DO NOT have kids if you can’t pay for their education, health and welfare out of your own pocket.

Sandra I can’t fathom why you got so many red thumbs? I agree, people should not be having children they can’t afford to clothe or feed. Certainty not several children if you & your partner have never worked a day in your life.
But I do think the government should be helping with childcare and doing more to help parents (not just women) stay in employment and contribute to the economy.
While I agree with your sentiments it’s not realistic to say that no one should consider having a child unless they are wealthy enough to cover every facet of raising them. Because that’s a very small minority.

Jeasus cruella devile is a princess in comparison to you Sandra. God forbid you should open your heart to the warmth and unconditional love a child has to offer. These children you speak so vehemently of are our future…..applying your logic it would be a bleak and dire future.

Ryan O, it seems Sandra is a troll and we fed her…. silly us.
Just checked her twitter account, 0 followers 0 following.

ryan I’m not a horrible person like you think..I would love to be able to have a child of my own…but if I did I would pay for them one hundred percent and not expect any state funding! except for their education…our future as you say and I agree.

At Sandra:
Who will pay for your pension one day if there aren’t enough young people around to generate the funds?
Nobody’s expecting to have absolutely everything paid for them but something’s got to be done about some of the crazy costs involved here.

The world is not black and white….

abbi it is a small minority I know, I just cannot agree with some of the expectations some people have from the state with regard to their own children. I would never like to see a child go hungry or without a proper education but responsibility for a person who chooses to have a child should lie with them…no? why am I wrong? sorry to offend any parent here.

a troll? I just joined twitter today…why would you check me out?? weird

Agree abbi. Trolls get a bit put out when you call it. Lack of sunlight and all. Must be great living under a bridge with no kids.

To clarify we are not related and share different views.

I’m happy for my tax to be given to children as an allowance to safe guard their lives (especially now) its better than paying into a black hole of banks and bondholders. But that’s just me.

I agree ryan- prefer money going towards children than the fat cats in government and Anglo etc…sadly this is not the case.

At Sandra…
I understand your point better now. There is that minority alright…Continuing to have them without any regard for how they will be fed, clothed or educated and fully expecting the tax payer to provide what they cannot. I can see why you would argue that it is not up to you or I to support them in the way some like to expect.

In the meantime people who actually did give the financial impact of having children some consideration before embarking on that journey are finding themselves squeezed quite severely these last few years. Shocked to see what went out of the paycheck in USC charges alone….that was money we still had available for spending/saving before it was brought in. :( And when I compare child care costs in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe, I just want to cry or laugh hysterically.

By the way…anyone remember there being talk that Irish Childrens Allowence was among the highest in Europe and that that could not possibly continue??? Eh? Well, in Germany, it is around the 168Euro mark for the first child (and possibly second). Food for thought? I think so. :/

I won’t argue with you there Sandra.
I’m horrified by people whose career choice is simply to have children and live off that. Never thinking about how they’ll pay for those children.There has to come a point where there is proper accountability.

Stephanie.. I feel so much for parents who are suffering in the current economic climate that never foresaw how much their family would have to endure. u just feel that a new blanket of free child care is not the answer. way too many spongers of the state that would take advantage of this. would be great if instead the tax contributing parent gets tax relief to help pay for their children.

Did any of you ever hear of the very generous children’s allowance that already exists in Ireland?

The “oh won’t somebody think of the children” argument is ridiculous.

Why are you putting “single farthers” in brackets all the time. are you trying to point out that they are not that important compared to women and children. ?

Why do you say single fathers considering lots of men are saying home looking after there children not just mothers or single fathers.

Gill I agree that in concept it is a fantastic idea, unfortunately I know that the Irish Government will just make a complete mess of the whole thing. I know that their (certain) failure to provide a good service which provides a value for money service to mothers and fathers of this country is not really a great reason to not pursue this but I just dread to see how badly they would mess up.

If they could provide a good child care service to those who needed it (and only those who need it) without creating millionaire creche owners along the way (probably relatives of key cabinet personnel of course) and ensuring that those who don’t need it can’t take advantage of it along the way then I agree it should be implemented. Unfortunately I don’t trust them to get a single part of it right so I’d rather the money wasn’t wasted.

stay at home mother’s reap benefits more so than mother’s who work and struggle to pay child care. any woman who chooses to stay at home being state funded should be ashamed of themselves.

shocked??? the people who voted no live in the real “self paid” world love. go back to your knitting.

I am not sure if it really is a better quality of life for an infant to be in full-day childcare to be honest. If they could speak I think they would vote for being with their mother or father rather than have a bigger house or nice stuff… I think, given the benefits to the emotional security of the child, we should be supporting mothers and fathers to be at home with their infant children, instead of pushing them to be available for work before their baby is even one year old – what a sad society that is. Those countries people are speaking of also have much much longer maternity and paternity leave arrangements that recognise the irreplaceable role of the parent in the very early years for the child’s well-being and the need also for parents to at least part rear their own children. Can we not just support the poor children to have their parents as their main caregivers for just one or two years of their whole life for god’s sake?

Family friendly, flexible work environments should be incentivised. If all members of a family/community were available as a pool of childcare on top of a quality state funded service then we would see women taking part in all levels of employment.

I get the feeling that most people will be paying taxes long after they should or are able to.

I just don’t see why…I’m sorry but if I have a child then I would not expect the state to pick up the tab for that choice I made. please explain why they should other than ” they are our future” …if they are smart they will succeed…regardless of whether they the state paying benefits for them.

There is definitely a strong argument for govt funded childcare, education & healthcare. There is a balance though.

If things are within govt control & funding then they need to run efficiently or be taken advantage of by private companies.

Human capital is a fairly one dimensional way to look at people but the balance in an economic argument is cost benefit analysis of what is achievable.

Personally, I have no kids but see education as invaluable to the health of economy and of society and therefore have no problem with my taxes having gone there. I do think though that childrens’ allowance should be about those who are most at need.

State provision for “other people’s children” is very generous in Ireland.

The idea that “children are an investment for our future” seems like a rather repulsive notion, but it does explain why so many are happy for the kids to pay the promissory note.

I’d prefer to see our kids inherit a functioning country where they can build a life. This over reliance on “the government” is not going to deliver that future.

*leave

then invest in them yourself!!!! don’t have kids if you can’t pay for them yourself! why in gods name should any part if my tax pay towards any benefits for your children??

Correct me if I’m wrong but taxes go towards the paying of teachers….who teach children. Your taxes also fund many national children’s hospitals…..you’d want to stop paying tax if your that bothered about paying for other people’s children.

your dead right ryan…I am bothered about paying for them. I am 100% behind paying tax towards their education etc but child benefit is unfair as I personally think that if you can’t afford to pay for your own child then don’t have one. why should I pay tax for someone to have a child…? and now they think we should pay for their babysitters???

Awww booo! Sandra has a chip on her shoulder.

Why should i have to pay tax to pay for someone who has to have a testicle removed due to cancer? I dont have testicles! I do pay for my own childcare but if they want to boost they economy, people need to work! Making people better off on the dole than working isn’t going to help that!

Sandra…im guessing you have had a lovely life, with no tragedy, upset or change?
Marriages break up, Sickness and death can turn a “planned” family that could afford children to those reliant on benefit for a time.
My neighbours partner contracted meningitis last year, sadly leaving him badly brain damage and in need of 24 hrs care, with 3 children under 7. She has been forced to give up work, with her and her children dependant on welfare.

That is an extreme case. You need to stop plucking at the heart strings and using the extreme cases as general examples. They are not.

@ siobeli, Tell your friend to look up her local “county childcare committee” there are at least 1 for each county and ask about the Subvention grant (CCS) for childcare. Your friend should be eligible for the grant and hope it’s of help to her. all the best
link for info on the grants http://www.kkccc.ie/dcya-funding-schemes.html

Well. That or stop cutting the child benefit payments…

@neasa @simon, I think she was doing the opposite. Stating that its not just mothers/women who could stand to benefit from a well run scheme like this.

As if! Right wing governments don’t do things like this! They’re trying to do away with child benefit as it is. So why would they even consider a scheme such as this? This crowd are trying to wipe out the less well off in society. Schemes like this would only encourage us to have more children. Anyone that thinks there’s a possibility of more free childcare anytime soon is completely deluded!

Forget the cost, does it give noone pause to be considering the notion of the government proposing that they look after our kids the day after they finally apologise for the Laundries?

They look after our kids for six or so hours a day already. In these things we have called schools.

Er, Rob. About that… you did read the Ryan Report, right? And the bits in there about schools?
It’s not like the state has covered itself in glory with them either. You certainly can’t use them as an example of everything going right and being perfect.

Yes I am reasonably familiar with the contents of the Ryan report and the fact that the majority of abuses in schools were committed by members of the clergy. The reason reports like that are published is to prevent the likes of that happening again.
If you honestly believe that governments of now or the future are not to be trusted with the care of children because of atrocities that have happened in the past then we may as well not argue, our views are so different.

I totally agree with a funded childcare system. It’s good social and economic policy. “Clear educational, labour market and social benefits, seen as important for the development of the Smart Economy, accrue from quality ECEC (childcare) programmes. Further to this, ECEC in general provides good return on investment – with an Irish estimate putting the return at up to €7 for every €1 spent.”- Oireachtas Library & Research Service. According to the ESRI Ireland is the envy of Europe with it’s high birth rate as these are going to be the future taxpayer of our country. This is why it’s so important to give the best start in life and why the government need to invest in quality early years care and education.

It is a good idea Denise…
…for other countries.
Leave our government run something like this and you can be pretty sure that in thirty years time, there’ll be yet another tearful taoiseach apologising to yet more abused people while yet another report is published that skips over the worst of the abuses.

Besides, if we hiked the child benefit payments and regulated the industry better so that every childcare facility was like Cocoon or Giraffe, we would solve the problem using existing systems and boost private sector employment at the same time.

France is bankrupt, according to the French minister for finance.

Almost sounds like home- happy children, mom’s healthy home-cooked food and the place where children spend most of their time. I don’t know why we don’t adopt this system- deliver our babies into the hands of the State and collect them 18 years later when they’ve been nourished, fed and are ready to take their place as productive cogs in the wheel of the economy.

Is entrepreneur a bad word in your vocabulary? I thought they were to be celebrated and encouraged.

its not spending its investing in our children and the parents so everybody can contribute to the economy and create jobs

Oh dear. There should be a numeracy test before you’re allowed to comment on such things.

And there we have it. A giant ponzi scheme for public sector workers. Sounds like Ireland alright.

If people have children and stay at home caring for them, do we not have the same effect? They will still be the tax-payers of tomorrow whether there’s paid childcare or not.

Fair point, but that’s not the way most of us live these days (worse luck).

I don’t like this idea because we’re already pushing too many of our problems onto the next generation. Now we’re saying the government (Joe taxpayer) should fund childcare, even though “the government” is broke. The money either comes from increased taxes or more borrowing – either way, creating an even worse situation that these kids have to deal with when they grow up … and they have to look after us as well. I’m not sure they’ll be too disposed towards our generation :D

We only have an oversupply in certain sectors.

Then you do what my parents did – try and save a little bit each week from the day your child is born, and by the time they get to college then you have 18 years worth of savings to help pay for fees. And then your child does what I did – get a part time job to help pay for themselves.

And before anyone says anything, my parents struggled when I was a child and they still managed to put a little bit by each week for my education. It was not the governments responsibility to pay for me and my brother, my parents decides to have us and they made sure they had savings to help pay for us.

Surely one of the aims of society is that the members of that society can benefit in ways that would not be possible if we all lived our lives focused solely on our own narrow needs and requirements. As the song goes- “No man is an island.”

That is not what my comment means at all. You’ve misread and/or misinterpreted my comment.

…..you know how taxes work right?

Are you really saying that because the government in the past has run stuff badly that its pointless to try and set up any scheme ever again.

Talk about the Irish mentality.

I agree with you Dave. After having funded myself through college, paid my own childcare – ALWAYS. I possibly was the exception in that as a single working mother (still working luckily) I’ve never had the luxury of hand outs, and for the brief period I was on welfare, even though it paid me more, I chose to work, and pay my own childcare, and do without myself. If you choose to have children, pay for them yourself. The system needs to change, not people. If its costing too much for childcare, either don’t have more than one child, or find a cheaper alternative. I could barely afford my own child, why should I pay for someone else’s, who probably will abuse the system anyways! Any decent working folk are ‘plodding on’ doing the best they can, not expecting others to pick up their tab.

People who don’t smoke fund the healthcare of those that do, people who don’t drink likewise…
If you’re not sure whether to have children or not, I wouldn’t make the decision on the basis of “if I don’t have children I’m not getting value for money out of my tax”.

You can’t exploit it if is available to all!

The children of today are the tax-payers of tomorrow so children are actually good for an economy, although I agree with you about state child care. To me, it’s the state interfering with parental choice and it will discriminate again the stay-at-home parent.

Well said Dave!

well said Dave and Tara. these people are so greedy

obviously this is a kinda divisive topic ,clearly if you have or want kids you might prefer the country to provide child minding and if you dont you would prefer it doesn’t. But please spare me the ‘do i know how taxes work’ nonsense , yes i do thanks i pay plenty of tax and i can avail of the health services and roads etc in return , but as someone who happens to be of the unpopular and seemingly un-pc view that I do not want children – i am not in favour of a country that is already broke having to come up with what is sure to be a new expensive government funded system that will need to be paid for and logically will need tax increases to pay for it.

Finally! I was beginning to wonder if anybody was aware of this – there already are 3 national Childcare schemes. Just look up the dept of childrens website, all with a different purpose.

Give me a break. Are you Bill Gates? Michael O’Leary?

How much tax do you pay? Are you even on the higher band? I doubt you pay enough tax to pay for a garda car hubcap.

The 400,000 taxpaying families which would be affected by this change pay more tax than you’ll ever pay.

I’m sure you were a child at some stage, jimboandbear, and someone helped you out.

They should pay for it themselves. For example, with their children’s allowance.

And you didn’t have to mention “foreigners”. We have plenty of our own free loaders.

Could a man not do it instead?

Quiverfull much Graham?

Very true Graham. Irish people have become a nation of docile obedient sheep. They live for money. People value money more than human life.

You should google the myth of overpopulation.