You know if the people who are earning the big salaries didnt have as many ” loopholes” in the tax system whereby they can legally work their way around avoiding tax, we wouldnt even have to have this discussion. There has been so much corruption in this country and so many people availing of tax loops and incentives — that is why the country is now in the state it is in. One example I recently heard of was a tax free allowance for doing up a property that was over 17 years old at the time. A person was able to claim allowances on 150,000 euro for doing up their property etc WITHOUT HAVING TO SHOW RECEIPTS for what work was done !!! This would not happen n any other country. We need to radically change our tax laws and the way tax free allowances and distributed and managed.

We earn our money fair and square too (most of us) … but that doesn’t exempt us from taxes.

Why this is still only being discussed as a mere ‘concept’ at this stage is beyond me completely!

I’d be interested to know what you define as ‘Higher Earners’ though

If we’re all being squeezed – they can be squeezed too.

irish politicans are knee deep in coruption and in bed with the people who destroyed this land ,thats why they wont do any thing to them LET ALONE CHARGE THEM EXTRA TAX THAT THEY CAN WELL PAY……..

I think firstly wages, waste, corruption, value for money, ridiculous pension agreements all need to be tackled throughout the upper echelons of the public sector (not the rank and file – they’ve done as much as they can already).

Lead by example, then we could also look at how the rich can help rebuild the country they might have played a part in running into the ground (tax exiles and property developers we’re looking at you).

We can’t afford to pay the extra tax. I have mortgages on all my properties to pat and how can you expect me to pay for my domestic staff. You riff-raff also forget that I have very high private school fees to pay. You poor people simy don’t have my expenses. And our skiing trips aren’t getting any cheaper. The insurance on my private art collection has also gotten more expensive. So sto your whinging. You can afford your little taxes, I can’t!

As a low earning public servant I had a pension levy forced on me, much to the joy of many private sector workers. In a public sector top heavy with over paid staff I wouldn’t mind seeing some of them taking a bigger hit!

I don’t know what all the fuss is about!
So what if the top 200 richest people in Ireland pay no tax whatsoever?
So what if the businesses they set up are up to 110% grant aided by the tax payer?
So what if the renovations to their mansions, the purchase and upkeep of their racehorses, and the restorations to their classic cars are all channelled through company accounts so that all that nasty VAT can be claimed back?
So what if international fraud investigators are dumbstruck that not one person has been brought to justice over the financial dirty- dealing which resulted in Ireland being hit so hard by the current recession?
Aren’t we glad to have them? Aren’t we willing to lay down and take anything so that these wonderful people won’t be discommoded?
Obviously we are!

The big difference in big earners here and the U.S. is here the hold on to the money, while in the U.S. they create jobs. So I am all for taxing them. How about 95% for those people that got golden handshakes when they were being thrown out after bringing banks and other companies to their knees.

A little bit disappointed in the Journal on this one. This is more like a tabloid poll. Ask anyone and they will all agree, tax higher earners more. It’s an emotive question so the poll is gauging emotion not opinion.

The fact is that increases in taxes or wage cuts on low paid people takes the money out of the economy. This is simply because rich people have surplice money which they save while the poorer people spend everything, a bit of a simplification, but not by much. The fact is that increases in taxes for the rich is less damaging to society.

We know that everyone didn’t make a lot of money during the boom years so taxing someone who has recently improved their career, and now creating jobs and increasing productivity to create more should not be “mixed” in with people who made millions during those boom years. There needs to be an incentive for all of us to earn more and gain from this extra income otherwise, whats the point?
Wealth is not simply measured in terms of income, particularly if you are an employee. You could lose your job due to matters beyond your control and if you are asset poor or in serious negative equity, you are no longer wealthy (following the sentiment expressed in the article). So, it is simply incorrect and lazy to say that everyone earning 100k a year is wealthy. Go talk to the hundreds of architects and engineers who may have earned 100k a year during the boom years but who are now hopelessly unemployed and emigrating, and ask them now how their “wealth” is.

The sentiment usually expressed when a question like this is asked is usually agreement that people who earn over a certain figure pay more tax on their income. I have no idea if there is anything such as a fair tax. Yes, some people did make a lot of money during the boom years, but that is not necessarily reflected in their current income but how would we even begin to decide how their wealth was indeed created. An export business built up during the boom years creating employment that had nothing to do with the construction and banking industry – should the owners be taxed beyond existence and we ensure that they have the same disposable income as someone say, earning 30k a year? I think not. The property developer who made millions and now has a couple of mansions, a house in Marbella, four cars and a lavish lifestyle – should he/she have a level of disposable income imposed on them through higher tax? Yes, we would all scream – but that because of what they are and not because it is a fair tax system.
But who decides and determines what level of disposable income anyone should have? Based on the thinking in this forum and others, some people clearly want someone on 100k to have the same after tax income as someone on say 25k or 30k which is simply not fair.
It is clear that all of us will pay more tax. There is no fair system. There is only the certainty of tax.

We can all give an opinion but at the end of the day, it means nothing to the real people who manage this country as they never have and never will listen. And to be honest why should they as we just do what the Irish do best moan but accept!

Closing all the tax loopholes that people who can afford an expensive accountant are able to avail of in this backwards country would be a better place to start.

That being said I don’t see any problem in taxing incomes over 100k at 50%. Its a myth that Ireland is a high tax country.

Only in Ireland would it be discussed as a concept..if a right winger like Berlusconi can do it so can FG and Labour…some joke!

Tax Gay Byrne.

I think yes as they really were so greedy through the boom and 5 cent for example? They dont feel it at all!!!
Yes they should – cant be that people on welfare (real welfare not the scums) have to be squeezed again . Where? They cant survive anymore!
And there are still ENOUGH rich people, real rich ones out there when I see in my little town here in Kerry still enough 11 cars and then a second 09 one!!
YES YES and again YES!

I think the rich people of this country should be left alone, they pay their taxes just like everyone else. The people to take a good look at are, the bankers GOLDEN CIRCLE, I’m sure these people own second businesses & have properties all over the world. Not to mention the GOLDEN hand shake when they move on. Take a good look at the people who are running for the presidents job, what is their present income,( gay Byrne for f– k sake 77 years of age that man should hang up his boots buy a pipe & enjoy a smoke, ) what’s wrong with looking for a 35 or a 40 year old man or woman that has the qualifications & looking for a job. I could go on and on, all their doing is looking after themselves.

How many of these high earners actually exist? And this would generate how much? People are utterly deluded if they think many people get this cash into their pockets. Most real high earners get their earnings in stock option form or some other method that can be held until taxes are more favourable. You might get something for maybe one year, until they hired better accountants and got their wages put through another country.

AND, our tax system is already proportional. Higher earners do pay higher taxes. Anyone earning over 32k pays 41%. Plus the levies. Anyone earning over 99k pays an additional 6% on the total.
http://www.finfacts.ie/taxfacts.htm#incometax

Utter utter waste of time. Reduce spending and bringing everyone into the tax net would be much more use.

start by taxing "artists", the money from u2 alone would be millions

The trouble with this poll is, it’s far too vague. There’s not even a context given to how much “rich” people pay, or what we constitute as rich.

There’s also the problem of diminishing returns in tax. When do we reach this point?

A state in the US raised income tax on people who earn over $1m with the intention of raising around $106m to help plug their deficit. They ended up losing something like $250m because the rich people left town, leaving the gap to be plugged by middle and low income earners.

Be careful how you construct a tax debate.

I have to say I was once someone who didn’t want high taxes on the rich. The reason some of us vote NO to this is because we aspire to be rich and want the space tax-free for when we make it there.

Recently though I’ve come to the view that we need higher taxes on the very wealthy.

Firstly because we have a huge budget deficit.

I’m not of the utopian view that the rich can pay for everything but a solidarity tax here or a third band of income tax could raise a few hundred million euro.

Secondly because I disagree with the idea that this money has been earned fairly.

Incomes rise gradually as you work through the working and middle classes, however once you reach six figures, the incomes scales just start to explode upwards. I can’t see any justification for some of the salaries that people earn in Ireland. Experience, education and work hours are not enough to explain it. I wouldn’t change this system (capitalism) because it’s the basis of our overall wealth but it should be taxed more than it already is.

Finally because new research shows that “income equality” or the earnings gap between rich and poor within society might be a cause of many of our social problems.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence

The evidence here shows a major correlation between income equality and all our major social and health problems. The numbers show that more equal countries are healthier, more educated, thinner, less violent, and more cohesive and community based. I’m not too sure myself as to why this is the case, but the numbers are too compelling to ignore.

I recognise the point that the rich pay a large chunk of our taxes, however that is only income tax. I’ve yet to see figures that shows that the rich pay a fair % of their total wealth in taxes. I’m not in favour of a wealth tax because it causes capital flight but more income tax is needed.

The main argument against higher taxes for the rich is that they are mobile and likely to take their entire tax bill abroad.

In the US they looked at a tax increase in New Jersey and found that only 1% of higher earners moved out of the state to escape the tax!

It’s much easier to move out of New Jersey to another US state than it is to move out of Ireland to another country!

I say we call their bluff.

They say they’ll leave but in the end they won’t.

They’ll put up with it because at the end of the day they’re still very well off.

The option that reads ‘No, they made their money fair and square’ should be changed to ‘No, WE made our money fair and square’. Because that’s who’s voting for it.

A flat tax rate is not justifiable under any circumstances – the advocates of a flat/one tax rate want the extremely low paid paying the same rate as the extremely high paid. take an example example a person earning 20000 a year taxed at say 25% so they are left with 16000 to live on. A person earning a million is left with 750000 to live on. It’s regressive unjust, unfair and destructive of social solidarity

Although there’s an option for “they can afford it”, that’s not the reason I would vote yes. The reason is the massive feeling of inequity prevalent in the country nowadays. Even though this measure would bring in only a small amount in the greater scheme of things, it would make people feel like we were all in the same boat, rather than being shat upon by the better off.

Your missing a fourth answer possibility
No, they already pay higher taxes

I am fed up being depicted as the bad guy. I am what I would call an upper middle earner. I don’t make a vast fortune, but I am comfortable. As a result of this i don’t qualify for handouts at either end of the scale (no social benefits at one end, no bailouts at the other end). I am being hammered by the banks, harassed by revenue while it is clear in survey after survey that exactly my level of earner is making the biggest, indeed if not only, contribution to the taxes. If you notch up our taxes any more, we will all just either give up working or leave the country.

I suggest we tax stupidity. Or maybe a “levy” would be better…

The is the worst example of daft populism; you cannot tax past a certain point without negatively affecting the economy. That means that LESS income is generated as the punitive tax rate drives the economy downwards and disincentivises entrepeneurs & businesses. But the governemnt love this kind of stunt because it’s popular (just look at the reaction to comments)
I work 55-60 hours per week, employ 12 people, & between tax, levies and NI contributions, I pay 57% tax on my earnings. 57% is a LOT.
Add 10% to that, and there’s no point in me working that hard. That’s bad for everybody, especially my employees. 67% of nothing is nothing.

This poll again puts forward the idea that a high earner today is automatically someone who “benefited from the boom”, or that someone making good money today is automatically rich.

Neither is true.

Many may make good money for a couple of years, but may have spent years working up to that level and may find that they can only earn at that level for a short period. High marginal tax rates on those people cannot even pretend to have any basis in social justice.

It’s a simple choice really and is up to them: pay a proper share of tax now – or wait until their greed and inaction pushes unrest and lose their possessions in a revolt fuelled by their greed and inaction

Yes I think they should pay more.

Taxing a percentage of a persons income is fair to a point. If all high earners are maying the same 21%/42% tax as the rest of us thats fine. There is a point where putting a further tax on high earners does become realistic. Using an extreme example, if tax for someone on the minimum wage is increased by 5% it would be devastating on their income, however if it was someone like Bill Gates, a 90% tax could be imposed without damaging their standard of living. (Thats just an example, in no way am I condoning such high taxes)

“Should high earners or those who made a lot of money during the boom years be now subject to additional taxes in Ireland?” So are we going to levy retrospective tax over the last 10 years?

It is completely ridiculous to subject those on higher incomes to a higher rate of tax for several reasons:
1) They already pay a higher absolute amount of tax.
2) It completely ignores the prevailing reasons why they are on a higher income.
3) It will drive high income earners who are generally wealth-generators from this country.

They are many people who benefited financially during the boom years and that still is the case during this recession and as such they should pay more in taxes. Its only fair. The low and middle income earners cant foot the bill for everything. Also tax breaks need to be abolished and changes need to be made regarding who is exempt for paying income tax. They are some organisations who dont pay income tax but their workers do. That needs to change. Everyone and i mean EVERYONE has to do their part.

It’s urban myths like that which fuel a lot of this nonsense.

In the USA for example, the wealthiest 5% pay nearly half of the income taxes, most countries probably have similar figures.

Nonsense about ‘tax dodging’ aside (which probably only work for the ‘super’ rich) it’s the people earning 100k a year that pay the vast bulk of the states current tax take as it is.

It would make a little more sense to remove the distorting tax reliefs that disproportionately benefit higher earners, such as pension reliefs, ALL property reliefs (including mortage interest which vastly favours higher eaners at direct expense of tax payers).

There is also a major problem with PRSI rates for self employed – the very wealthy self employed tax payer basically gets a generous discount, while the poorer (probably the majority) of self employed get a discounted rate compared to PAYE workers but then lose critical benefits which they may need. Really there should be some arrangement to allow lower earning self employed to voluntarily pay a higher rate in order to retain consistent welfare entitlements which they may need. At the moment they can only do so by paying an effective rate of 14.75% (i.e. pay both their own AND the employers share).

It certainly makes no sense to me to whinge about a paltry 100 euro a year property related tax while doling out huge discounts to property owners simply because they have both a mortgage and earn enough to pay a higher tax. What this essentially does is penalise lower income mortgage owners and tenants.

We need to be careful with this. It’s should be a case of give us your money because your rich. Isn’t that a lot like looting? What about the forward thinking hard working rich people in this country who’s enterprises have created thousand of jobs? We don’t want to drive these people out of our country with Henry viii style wealth taxes. These are the people that will get Ireland back on it’s feet. Not lazy politicians looking to pick everyone’s pockets. Well dine to the rich I say.

OMG What a response to this poll!
The ordinary decent Irish citizen is being screwed by it’s own Government & I feel this is an appalling situation.
Soon, I fear they’ll start taxing the ordinary human being the air they breathe!
That’s how farcical I believe those in politics are!
I wonder how soon the catalyst will come to these shores!
I fear it won’t be pretty…………….

Depressing result, that so many think people should be separated from what they have earned from their productivity. If anything high earners should pay less tax. After all it is they that provide so much employment for others, take the risks and loans to set up businesses. Why should they be penalised more than the employees who take no risks and, relatively speaking, have an easy ride? There is nothing moral about forced taxation in the first place, and everyone from high to low earners pay too much, so that politicians can line their nest, and the public ‘services’ coast along at everyone else’s expense. No wonder Ireland is broke, with the kind of attitude to taxation reflected in the result of this poll. Envy produces no wealth but lower taxes, for all, does.

Just want to add that a flat tax system would be much more equitable and efficient.

It saddens me that in the state of the public finances & social balance we are still in, how all the communistic ‘government artists’ bombard opinion polls in favour of taxing those successful of our countrymen. It also frustrates me how demeaning we Irishmen can be to our successful brothers.
I adore and admire my more successful piers & friends and in return they also respect my current financial crisis knowing one day soon I shall return to the same success levels to which I was not so long ago..
Yes we have to look out for number one at the end of the day but dont be mooching & scraping scars into those who are keeping our little island just afloat, instead get off the couch & get a career!

Whatever about this measure, I think it would bring in more if we smartened up our residency requirement for those claiming to live abroad. I would suggest that unless an Irish citizen can show proof of taxes paid on all income, supplied by their chosen alternative country of residence, they should be levied at the appropriate rate in Ireland.

No, there should be one tax rate and everybody should pay it, including those who, through various loopholes, get away with paying next to nothing.

There is no economic, social or moral reason why There cant b a 3rd rate of tax on earning over 100k.It will not hurt the economy, full bank accounts which r not spent locally or r invested abroad.Its low and middle incomes who spend locally and help the economy yet thats where they want to cut wages and tax it really is stupid. Remember they say we all got to take the pain.Yea right what is pain
If i hear any more lectures from IBEC ISME on this I’m gonna b sick…I dont want to generalise but every person who caused the wrecking of our country earn well in excess of this and alot are still creaming it of the rest of us how have they got away with it? Why are FG afraid or unwilling to tax the rich i wonder?maybe because ordinary people don’t do brown envelopes. I would love to see who financed their campaign. i would guess the same people/crooks who put FF in Govt. First get rid of the loopholes for the rich so they pay their fair share like the rest of us.. ie bono Denis OBrien Oreilly McManus ect…Bankers, accountants,politicans,and prop developers….If your able to pay then pay close the loopholes i would have thought the IMF would have wanted it

*that should be well done to the rich I say. (bleeding iPad)

Fair and square… what a load a ….

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-was-murdered-back-in.html