As opposed the the taxes found in nature?

I’d rather they brought everyone who works, no matter how low their income, into the tax net. Then they can look at increasing the USC for those of us who earn more.

Scrap it NOW!! I call it the Seanie Fitz Fund…nothing to do with me…I have to pay my USC of approx 300euro each month…I wana take this bloody Gov to court over it!!!!

@ James: That’s already the case. USC is charged at 2% on the first €10,036. Income tax is charged at 20% for the first €32,800.

Sorry Eoin but you are only partly correct. People earning less than the 10136 in a year are exempt. This is correct I think. The exemption was introduced in the last budget.

Really Terry? Because if you’re self employed there’s no floor on the USC..

My apologies – there is, but it’s around €4k..

80k gross is circa 50k net and thus 4.5k/month and yet only 500 left after mortgage and petrol?! Classic ostentatious Celtic Tiger property purchase by the sounds of it, I’ve little sympathy for you.

Dear Kieran,
Dear Kieran, if I was looking for sympathy I can assure you I would mot be looking for it here.
If you read more carefully what I wrote you would see that I did not buy a house but built one or least got someone to build it for me. It is a 4 bedroom dormer bungalow with the added luxury of a granny flat for my wife’s mother who needed to be looked after and who has since passed away. I also drive 2 hours to work and 2 home every day, you do the math re the cost of that as you are an accountant.
Unlike you I have every sympathy for those that did buy a house during the celtic tiger era and who are now in negative equity, I think about them all the time, paying for a house that will probably never recover in value.
As someone who worked in a bank that was complicit in the downfall of our economy you have some pair!
But thats the story with the Irish, we can’t seem to stick together can we? Always taking a lump out of the next person when we should be directing our anger at those that claim to represent us.

Well said Paul. This situation is wrong, and punishing the victims of the financial crisis is not going to help.

Paul €450 a month in your hand is still more than €5000 a year after all expenses!!.., what do you want ???? as for cost perhaps you should look at getting a smaller car with 450 a month cash in hand?, I am sure you can get something smaller and petrol savings will pay for it ?.

A lot of people would still think your lucky

The Celtic tiger gone get use to it, & welcome to living like the rest of the world.

Vincent , TD’s earn €96k. that is why the figure is being set at €100k.

This would be a short sighted decision made by the public service with little understanding of the market. For multinationals All that will happen is the higher paid jobs will get moved out of the country to other countries and the lower paid lemmings get to stay and pay all the tax. This is already happening in many cases.

I think that everyone should carefully read what Vincent says. He is not earning 100k and pays a whopping close to 40k in taxes. 40k in taxes. That’s a lot of money. In taxes?

@Jim

Do you have any evidence for that? Anything at all?

Because it makes no sense that a multinational employer would care less about a higher rate of USC – there are no employer contributions. No skin off their noses.

By your logic, all management positions in multinationals would already be located in Switzerland, Luxembourg or the Caymen Islands, where employees can pay little or no tax.

Jesus bleedin’ wept.

Voodoo,

It is obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about. Son, the €100k+ earning managers talk to their bosses and tell them ‘the rules have changed since I signed up, now I am much worse off so please pay me more, move me out of here or I will accept the offer I got from competition’. Multinationals look after their talent and do not have this ‘I don’t give a damn about your welfare attitude’.

Ok chief, that seems a bit odd, because in my experience multinationals can generally find someone only too eager to take care of a role, particularly a management or professional role, from within their own organisation if someone decides to take up a better offer elsewhere.

If a company is located here to take advantage of a a low corporate tax rate, surely the cost benefit analysis will generally come down in favour of either adjusting remuneration for a disgruntled staff member who feels that their €100k+ just isn’t enough these days, or letting them go and bringing in younger, hungrier “talent”. Multinationals look after their bottom line, son, or hadn’t you heard?

If the role itself is one that can be offshored comfortably, and talent satisfaction is a key aim for multinationals, including minimising tax burden, then why weren’t most of these roving roles located in the likes of Switzerland or Luxembourg in the first place. In any event, Long story short, I’m still not seeing any evidence for this supposed talent drain from multinationals owing to our supposedly draconian tax regime.

@Vincent

Meant to say, dunno about this “Ireland Inc.” business, a nation state is a very different entity to a commercial corporation, or at least it should be.

You’re hazard guessing at this stage. Firstly, there ain’t no magic pool of talent ready to replace the outgoing mid to senior managers. It’s not about hunger and eagerness but about skills and experience once you’ve passed the €100k. Secondly, our new tax regime is only 3 years old and for such shifts to convert into obvious trends it takes a bit longer. But only a fool can believe that adding 10%+ tax burden on higher earners will not make it more difficult to attract and retain high earners.

If I’m hazard guessing, my man, then so are you.

But here’s a fact: ironically enough, multinationals like situating here because of our tax regime. Here’s another: a certain amount of management and professional roles are required to keep the Irish branch offices of multinationals running smoothly.

It only needs concern us if significant numbers of the actual roles are being offshored because of an increase in USC, and I don’t see how that would happen, because of the lack of employer contributions. If it’s simply a case of people prioritising the bottom line over all else and choosing to take an equivalent job abroad, that’s their choice, and good luck to them. But it seems highly unlikely that enough people will (a) make that choice, there’s more to life than the bottom line, especially when it’s not exactly an 80% top tax band that we’re talking about here, and (b) take their role with them, for it to offset the benefits of raising additional revenue in this way.

Don’t kid yourself for one second that there isn’t a pool of sufficiently well educated and skilled talent, both in this country and throughout the EU, waiting to take their places. People with realistic expectations, for whom a €100k+ salary seems more than attractive, even given an extra couple of points taxation on their earnings over that amount. Especially in management.

What I’m seeing here, in the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, is an attempt to transpose a stock corporate taxation argument, the old “we can’t tax multinationals because of capital flight, they’ll just up and leave” type scaremongering, and applying it to a situation where it just does not fit.

You can make of it what you want. I know several guys who left such positions, myself included. Our positions were not adequately filled because staff isn’t there. Here in the ME I see an increase of applications from Ireland and other European countries for specialist and management positions. I know how multinationals work as I have worked with several during my career and each time an effort was made to keep such staff and replacements are not easy to find.

True, but since when have those with incomes over €100k been middle class? This is the top 10% of earners we’re talking about, they take just shy of 30% of the total income in this country and their disposable income has actually increased by something like 10% in the past 5 years, while every other income decile has seen their incomes shrinking.

I really don’t see this as a measure that’d lead to anyone “struggling and starving”, exactly the opposite in fact – it might help preserve services for those who genuinely are teetering on the brink.

Nonsense. My disposable income went down 20% from 2008 to 2011. As far as preserving services is concerned, how much services did you preserve since myself and five other €100k+ buddies of mine left over a year ago? That’s €250k per annum in tax you’re no longer collecting plus spouses income tax plus VAT and plethora of other taxes. Come to think of it, 80% of my income was going to the government in tax and banks as interest. And you want to tax more? Good riddance to you.

As for the autor’s question, it is rather silly. You may as well have asked “are you making €100k” in which case the answer is obviously no and otherwise obviously yes. That is the thing about taxation, what begins as punishing the rich (usually meaning anyone who makes more than you) because ‘they can afford it’ eventually trickles down to ordinary Joe soap.

Ok chief, a single person on €100k could expect to take home €4,928.00 per month at current rates, not including perks, €5,223.00 for a married person who’s the sole breadwinner.

Now, if you can’t afford your mortgage and a good standard of living out of that, then I do have to wonder. If you and your buddies feel so “punished” by paying an extra couple of percent given the state that the country is in – literally half the population left with less than €100 after bills are paid – no offence, but I have to suggest that maybe it’s good riddance to you.

To be fair, though, €100k falls more so within the second highest decile, who’ve seen their disposable incomes stay more or less static, it was the €170k + bracket who’ve seen the 10% increase. But the line has to be drawn somewhere – €100k is still almost three times the average industrial wage.

Maybe you and your buddies were just unlucky, although if you werre “struggling and starving” on that money, I’d respectfully suggest that you work on your budgetary skills.

To be fair, though, €100k falls more so within the second highest decile, who’ve seen their disposable incomes stay more or less static, it was the €170k + bracket who’ve seen the 10% increase. But the line has to be drawn somewhere – €100k is still almost three times the average industrial wage.

Maybe you and your buddies were just unlucky, although if you were “struggling and starving” on that money, I’d respectfully suggest that you work on your budgetary skills.

It is not only about how much you take home, it is about relative position. And if one takes home 6k and then after two years takes 5k on the same or higher gross then questions of viability of such an environment are asked. 5k is not much, pay an average mortgage and creche for two small kids and you will not be left with much. Then come the groceries, insurances, pension, holidays, etc.

The media seem to be missing this point. This extra 3% already applies to some people. The real facts are not being presented properly.

couldn’t agree more – don’t let the socialist/commie idiots hear you though.

Oh yes, those terrible spongers on welfare.. The majority of whom are most certainly not there by choice..

We have high welfare rates, but we also have a high cost of living. Have you ever tried living on benefits? There’s a lot of people who like to throw out the tired old “it’s a lifestyle choice” cliche but its pretty safe to assume that they have never been in the situation where they were forced to live that “lifestyle”.

It’s like the free housing rant.. People get the impression that rent supplement for example covers the whole rent – it doesn’t, and there’s a maximum your rent is permitted to be, usually set much lower than the going rates.. Add this to the fact that most landlords discriminate against those claiming this help from the government and you push people into cold, damp accommodation with poor energy ratings. This leads to more health problems, but sure hey – why would anyone else care? These people chose to be on benefits right?

And before you make some cutting remark about me getting off my ass and getting a job, I have one thanks. But I also have friends who are disabled and unable to work who must live on what you term “generous” welfare.. They’re the ones who are truly struggling, but yes – Of course our welfare is too high, They should get up out of the beds they’re confined to and work if they want a better standard of living shouldn’t they?

Shanti Om , you are missing something , something big . They are providing employment. Less people on the dole and. More paying taxes. Not bad!

Shanti , got my remarkS mixed up there. Sort. I was aiming at the clown who ranted about multi-nationals.

Amount of likes this comment got is disgraceful – our welfare rates are not actually the highest in Europe. There were a number of studies done into this. They’re high, but don’t forget we also provide shit services so that raises effective cost of living(needing more private medical treatment for example) quite a bit. Many people are struggling to make ends meet now – not to mention how poorly the government treat carers.

Socialism isn’t just about welfare and it’s amazing how clueless you are on it, as well as the other 130 dipshits who are saddling in with you. If we were a socialist state, we wouldn’t have such a high unemployment rate to begin with.

Yes, because we’d all be (un)employed by the State.

“It’s those on higher salaries, the so called coping middle class, who are suffering the most.”

Bullsh!t.

The incontrovertible fact of the matter is that lower earners have been hurt more by austerity measures than higher. In 2008-2009, the top decile of earners actually increased their disposable income by 8%, while the bottom decile lost 26%, the second from bottom lost 14%.

We’re developing a working poor here – 1,855,000 people have under €100 per month once the bills are paid.

Now, I don’t give a sh!t what anyone says, if you’re on over €100k and you aren’t doing better than that, then you need to get yourself a financial advisor.

All of which is aside from the fact that taxing high earners has major practical reasons to recommend it over cuts or flat measures like the VAT increase or property tax that disproportionately target the poorer segments of society.

The effective corporation tax rate in Ireland may be as low as 6.5%, according to Department of Finance figures: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1024/corporation-tax-rate.html

See now that’s something I really can’t get my head around.
We can’t raise the corporate tax rate because apparently all the corporations will run away, fair enough.. But they’re not even paying the already quite low corporate tax, if they’re paying almost half at present then surely we should be able to close the gaps so that they pay what they are supposed to? It’s still less than anywhere else’s corporate tax rates, why would they run away if we simply asked them to pay the 12.5% they agreed to when setting up here?

Am I missing something huge or is the government?

You can’t rely entirely on the top 1% either. A little over €100,00 – €140,000 maybe would be best. You would get a lot more people that way who can afford to pay.

Also remember that any complaints higher earners do have, lower earners have them and then some.

Not everybody of the 400 thousand on the dole are ‘bum’s doing f**k all. Most are out of work because of an incompetent government and recession. Many are actively trying to get back to work sending out countless CV’s and doing courses. Can I ask you though what is “everything else paid for”? I have friends of mine who have lost their jobs and are getting €100 a week (rate for u21′s) and nothing else.

Paul your comment is based on the assumption unemployed people don’t want to work. have a look at how the unemployment figures have risen in the last few years then tell me all these people should be made homeless because they can’t afford mortgage payments and day to day living. Or you could get your head out of your ass apologise for that close minded comment. your call.

Maybe everyone earning 100,000 and over deserves it. I personally don’t agree.I’m sure there’s instance of people earning that simply because of who they know/connections and not because they’re the best person for the job. As it stands someone earning 16,016 + is taxed at the 7% rate. So is someone earning 100k, 150k, 200k etc. I think it’s fair that people who can afford to pay a bit more in USC are charged a bit more.

You make being on the dole seem like a lifestyle choice. I’m sure for the vast majority of people, they’re on it through no fault of their own and are receiving any payments because of necessity and not due to laziness. If so many people hadn’t emigrated then the unemployment situation would be worse. Obviously not everyone can emigrate due to mortgages, small families etc. so those that stay may have to receive the dole while job-hunting. These same people have paid their fair share of PRSI to entitle them to receive the dole so it’s not as if they’re scamming the system!

Not everyone who earns more than 100K got there be because of who they knew, and not everyone earns over 100K sits down scratching all day. Silly comment.

I agree.That’s why I said ”I’m sure there’s instances of people earning that simply because of who they know/connections and not because they’re the best person for the job” implying in some instances. Never said that applied to everyone.

Look, people who are in the high tax bracket are already incentivised to avoid doing work because of high taxes. I am not close minded, if people want to get a job badly enough they will. If its that hard, why not reskill or start a business of their own. Why not spend 40 hours a week working up a new skill/portfolio and have experience with a new skill.In Ireland (in general) we sit on our ass and wait for something to be handed to us on a plate. I know personally if i lost my job and my skills were surplus i would reskill myself pretty quickly. Anyone under 21 and sitting on the dole doing nothing about it are better off being shipped to canada/australia. At that age there are no excuses.

@seamus – everything else = free house,free medical, other allowances. My main problem are the people unemployed pre-2007. Everything should be cut, in general they spend their days between the pub and the bookies which we all pay for!!

Just a note – a few things holding back business start ups..
1. Funds, thank you incompetent banks
2. If your business fails you are literally on your own. No jobseekers benefit, you might qualify for Jobseekers Allowance, but as its means tested, you might be giving up everything you have first.
3. Skills or Ideas. It’s not really the all round simple answer, in order for your business to succeed there needs to be a market for it, unless you have an idea for exports – where exactly is your customer base? Our economy isn’t exactly thriving at present..

It’s very easy to say start your own business, in theory its quite easy to do, it’s even quite easy to go get yourself on the BTWEA programme (and makes the live register figures look better for the dept), but the reality of actually running the business and working for yourself isn’t for everyone.

Given the general tenor here, I suppose I’ll have to pitch this in terms of your own self interest … which some of you seem to worship, while letting your sense of entitlement blind yourselves to the fact that your wellbeing and wealth depends on that of others in your community, also. Anywho….

Paul, very simple reason that “bums on the dole” and public services shouldn’t be cut further, but the shortfall should be made up in taxation – the bottom deciles have already been sh!t upon from a great height in the past few budgets.

According to the figures, in the first couple of years post-crash ( http://politico.ie/images/politico/society/thorsdottir-income-ireland-iceland.jpg ) the bottom decile has took the brunt of the pain, losing 26% of their disposable income.

Meanwhile the top decile have increased their disposable income by 8%. But, lemme guess, these people are heroic wealth creators and don’t owe anything to anyone? Right? Who’s John Galt, wha?

The point you’re missing is that these “bums” spend every cent they get, every week. Even if it is, as you claim, in the bookies or in the pub, that’s still money that’s going into circulation, paying someone’s wages. Meanwhile, the top deciles can take their excess earnings above cost of living and squirrel it away somewhere, Isle of Man or the Caymens, say, taking it out of circulation.

Finding the poll result here shocking, people really have drunk the kool aid. It’s really not that difficult when you think about it….

why punish this who got off their arses, got an education and got a well paying job?
why not tax heroin and dutch gold?

I’m of a slight socialist bent and I’d be happy to pay a little more if it helped provide important services for the vulnerable. But cuts are being made regardless and the money raised is being spent on banks rather than people. While this is the case I’m more likely to cheat tax and oppose increases than view them as a necessary price for a better society.

Well said Ciaran.

It shows the lack of real thinking that goes into these decisions when they pick an income level which is a round number! Why not €85K or €120K…….says it all.

Just to clarify, I did get off my arse and got an education to masters level and as such have I higher income. Whilst I have concerns about un-equalities in our welfare system I accept I also have an obligation to finance the state I am a citizen of, and can use valid protest to query those parts of the state I have an issue with

Yes Simon.
Over €100k?
What a coincidence that a TD’s basic salary is €92,672.

@Vocal Inequalities or Un-equalities?

Simon, picking a particular figure is of less importance as the rate applies to the margin above the threshold. Special measures to deal with politicians pay are needed, like a 50% cut.

“why punish this who got off their arses, got an education and got a well paying job?”

That’s funny, since you have no problem punishing those who got off their arses, got an education, and have been unable to find a well paying job, or any job at all.

I think we need to stop pretending that this is just about political slants and that a lot of it is to do with people being stupid and having poor morals & empathy, as well as a general lack of cop-on.

Poorer people gonna hate

It seems to me that most high earners can’t see why they should have to pay more in taxes. Society as we know it dictates that those with the most pay the most. While I accept there’s quite a large number of people who abuse the social welfare system, the huge majority of people on social welfare and low income workers are genuinely struggling to survive. If the well off people think that’s its up to the Lower income people to pick up the slack, then society will break down completely.

Revolting Peasant
If I am to apply logic to your ideology then I’m sure you would agree that your intent is to punish those who earn more than average and reward those who earn below average by comparison. That seems to me to discourage hard or clever work which provides huge benefit to Society while also being patently unfair.
By the way , under your proposal two Teachers or Gardai or Nurses married to each other with any service plus allowances would pay substantially more with that thinking.
And it it interesting to note that at the super wealthy levels of Irish Society we have managed to frighten an increasing number into non residency. Indeed the experts now say that this will shift rapidly to permanent domicile abroad with a collapse in the income the State currently derives from this sector.

The average solicitor Revolting Peasant …..is out of work.
My friends son is a qualified barrister and after three years devilling can now take on this own cases. He recently travelled twenty five miles to appear in a bail hearing under the Free Legal Aid Scheme. This was his only case in a week for which he got the huge sum of twenty six Euros.
Don’t get me wrong as he is not complaining but you make sweeping statements sometimes old flower that are not supported by facts.

@Garry. You appear to be confusing pay and value. The examples of the highly paid you cite are very poor examples of value being added. Yes there are legal people out of work but the solicitors created a system where they generated costs to society through conveyancing work and then came to depend on it. Many me the rich choosing to live outside the state have been paying proportionately less than their share at any rate. Yes they were paying a lot but most likely benefiting even more.

What you miss is that paying tax is an obligation not a punishment. Yes hard work should be rewarded but not necessarily for those professions that have managed to create artifical barriers to entry.

Really?? And tax breaks to the rich aren’t populous?

Populous?

Yes populous, “tax the rich it will solve everything” and “we the decent people should pay feck all”, that sort of populous sh1te talk. Next you’ll be calling for RobinHood! The tax system is flawed for all of us, it needs to be balanced, fair and have as many people in it as possible.

Tom,

You’ve classified budgetary discipline as “populous”.
The bottom line to your argument = let someone else pay.

Una, no, we all pay but of course in a balanced manner.

POPULIST!

The money has to come from somewhere – ideally from disowning the bank debt, but that’s another story. If it’s a question of tax or cut, we’re getting back to the same point, as above – lower incomes spend proportionally more of their earnings in just making it from one end of the week to the other. This is money that circulates and pays wages, as opposed to the excess that higher earners take above the cost of living, which can end up being taken out of circulation. Further, the lower incomes have already been hit disproportionately by all of this government’s austerity measures.

Honestly, I can’t believe there’s even an argument over this.

@voodoo ” – ideally from disowning the bank debt, but that’s another story”

No it isn’t another story. It is THE story and you and your mates in the Labour Party are just trying to deflect people away from their culpability in the beggaring of Ireland. Pointing fingers at one group in society is not going to deflect people from the Labour party’s betrayal of the electorate that voted for them on the basis of their promises to help create a more equal, and a more just society.

Firstly, I’m not in the Labour Party, and I’m not mates with anyone who is in the Labour Party.

For clarity’s sake, my view always has been and always will be that the bank debt deal needs to be done or this government will be a failure, whatever else it does. Austerity measures without a debt deal represents deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

HOWEVER

The next budget is going to see a further shortfall, which will have to be made up somehow. €70m+ is not an insignificant sum in the context of hospitals and carers, particularly given that those from whom it’s to be levied can comfortably afford it, despite their protestations, and that the lower earners have already been targeted disproportionately.

It’s not finger pointing, it’s not “punishing hard work and talent”, it’s just clearly the best way to attempt to balance the books, while causing the the least possible harm to the economy as a whole, given the state that we’re in.

i was on the dole after working all my life,i have now picked up a job where i work for minimum wage …but its a job and that 100 euro extra makes a big difference to me,but let me tell you its hard out there trying to even get a reply to the hundreds of cvs i sent out,so when those lucky enough to be working refer to the vast majority of those trying to survive on social welfare as bums or scroungers i feel very angry,..there are people who abuse the system but the majority on s/w are good people who would be glad to be back in the workforce earning that bit extra and regaining there dignity,if you are lucky enough to be working and not on s/w then count you self very lucky and stop attacking those unfortunate to have lost there jobs !!!

Why should he count himself lucky? Just say he works in the construction industry and has managed to hang onto his job, that would say to me that he probably deserves to have his job. I hate people saying ‘you should be lucky to have a job’, I have my job because I was selected over the other people that applied, not much to do with luck.

Bizarre? Are you out of your gourd?

Newsflash for you – country in massive debt crisis, public services already cut to the bone, lower income groups already disproportionately targeted by previous budgets. Seeming pretty disconnected yourself there, champ.

@ voodoo_criminology Wow! You actually think a rise in USC for those receiving incomes above 100K will curb the massive debt crisis (€136bn), stop cuts to public services and stop the targeting of low-income groups in the coming budgets!

As above, no I don’t.

But, given the reality situation that we’re in, the next budget is going to bring further pain, it’s simply a question of how we distribute that pain. There are those who are better able to shoulder that burden – including, lest we forget, the top 10% who are actually doing better now than they were in the Celtic Tiger era, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask them to pay an extra couple of percent. Q.E.D.

What about the disabled?
They get the same headline amount as jobseekers, they get the same rent allowance (and face the same restrictions on accommodation), should they live on stamps too? Not just stamps but stamps for Irish only products.. So not only are you disabled and unable to work, you’re unable to decide what food you can eat too. Sure hey, why don’t we give them no money at all! Give them a roof over their heads, credits for their utility bills and drop off a package of foods and products that we deem suitable for them.. The government can probably wangle a deal to save loads on energy costs as it would be paying them in bulk, same goes for the food.. It’s not like the disabled need any freedom, they’re disabled anyway aren’t they?

If you think Im being shrill I point you to the US. If you are disabled over there you live on food stamps.

Shanti, are you saying that nothing should be done about the long term unemployed because some of them are disabled?

Of course not. But when people make broad generalisations about welfare in this country I think it’s only fair to remind them what else is included in that net.
There’s the few who do not wish to work, and then there’s those who can’t work, those who would love to work but can’t find employment and those who are merely between jobs. It’s a wide net, it takes in a lot of people..

The ones who don’t want to work are a minority of the overall figure, although with the amount of calls to “cut welfare to the bone” it seems as though some are too quick to forget how easily they could find themselves dependent upon it like all those others who would really rather be at work.

Easy to pick on people on welfare, isn’t it?

Whawha rent free, cut welfare to the bone? Have you any idea how high taxes would go up if that were a reality? take your head out of your arse

@Ruth – Why would welfare cuts increase taxes?

Please spare a thought for the disabled.. When you cut welfare to the bone you affect them too. It’s €188 per week, a small portion of your rent paid (less than half) and a narrow selection of available properties (landlords don’t like rent supplement – try putting it in as a search term on daft, also – try finding somewhere within the maximum permitted rent levels, these are available on the citizens info website). Most places that accept rent allowance have very poor energy ratings, and are tiny. Try living in one if you’re in a wheelchair..

It’s all very well and good to say cut welfare to the bone, but you would be saying something very different if you broke your neck and became entirely dependent on the state. And as for the “do a deal with lidl and aldi”, so you feel you should dictate where people can shop now too? Funny you didn’t mention any other supermarket, I stopped going to lidl because it was the same price as tesco..

More populist clap trap, much like the proposal we are discussing. Well done for falling for the “us vs them” nonsense..

What???? People go crazy when PS employees make €50k but now you say €100 is much.
5.5% of the working population earn more than €100k. If you earn more than €100 you are doing very well. A slight increase on the top 5% of earners is fair in the current situation.

Ah, the public/private arguememt again. Listen, in a democracy everyone must be equal before the law, hence if they raise it for a set salary both the private and public employees must be treated equally. Otherwise all the decent public servants will move to the private sector and then you really will have the lunatics running the asylum and the decisions will get even worse

Yes Vocal Outrage.

However regardless of what salary a person is paid, the fact is that we do need efficient people in both public and private service.
However the facts are that
If you are not efficient in senior level private sector, then you get sacked or your business goes bust.
If you are not efficient in senior level public sector, then you are most likely to get a raise, get a promotion, get a large secure pension.
How do you solve this dilemma?

rent allowance,,, i have a mortgage, mortgage insurance, home insurance, and no help , just unemployment, my first time in my life out of work, and soon to be out of a home, but funny they will pay my rent if i am homeless, i am trying everything to get a job, hate being home, hate not able to feed my kids properly, why do people get rent allowance,,, i have paid taxes, my saving were my deposit on my home, have worked all my life and feel stupid paying a mortgage, when all new taxes and water rates coming in,,, think i should just give up, save a few euro up and let them take my home,,, seems to make more sense at the moment,, instead of struggling, cant answer my door as cant pay all my bills,,, where is this country going,, do they not want a middle class anymore, work,, own your own home,, all seem a thing of the past

Yeah, all those disabled people, leeches, every last one yeah?

Lest you forget when you spout your us vs them propaganda that welfare recipients include the disabled.. That rent supplement is not a lot of money and the amount of properties that won’t accept it is the vast majority (the ones that do tend to be of a lesser quality standard).
Oh, and it’s not €200, it’s €188, perhaps €12 isn’t very much to you, but to someone on welfare it’s a lot.

Exactly. I have repeatedly stated that Taxes on the rich are at a 20 yr low. Since the 1980’s, taxes on the top 10% have been falling. We have the lowest effective income tax rate in western Europe.

@ Una
Are you suggesting we should higher taxes so we can maintain paying one of the highest levels of social welfare payments in Europe???
If you want to compare to other European countries you can but not just comparing the the sections that suit!!!

Una. We have the 2nd highest tax on the PAYE sector in Europe at 51%. The “effective” tax is reduced by our low taxes on non waged income. If we persist in the fantasy that the elites earn wages we get nowhere.

Eoin,

We are the fifth wealthiest country in Europe. The richest 300 people in Ireland alone have a combined wealth of €57 billion, an increase of €6.7 billion since 2010. I’d love to see the neo-con’s cost the state billions in tax breaks that we cannot afford.

We are not. That was a fantasy created by debt Una.

Why?

why not? if blind people have to struggle to pay for dog food for their guide dogs then why shouldnt everyone have some sort of financial struggle? and i dont mean of the third holiday home mortgage repayment type of struggle

Revolting Peasant
Is your answer an ideological response to a general question of higher taxes for higher earners or a higher USC charge for those earning over one hundred thousand Euro.
The reason I am asking is that this group pays more than eight per cent of all income taxes and it is therefor unfair to bleed one section of society more than another.

@Garry i suppose its more from an ideological frame of mind, i believe that if even the poorest in society have an adequate standard of living it benefits everyone, including the most wealthy, i believe it is achievable if we all lost a small amount of greed, plus i say that everyone that has worked all their lives should be entitled to a decent pension (including household administrators), i dont agree there should be such a huge difference in pay between management and operations, and while i do agree that the longer and harder you train, whether its in a manual trade or academically the higher you should be rewarded, hard work in any form should pay, not just in professional circles

Commrad Peasant it’s not only people in professional circles that get paid more, I bet I earned more as an electrician than a lot of proffesionals.

@james i also earned more as a steel fixer than i did as an engineer, you have missed my point, so easy to accuse anyone seeking a fairer society of being a die hard commie, i was simply suggesting a reform of how pay is evaluated, a small increase in wages or livelihood for the lowest paid benefits everyone, while the continued hoarding of wealth by those in the top money brackets benefits only themselves, and i bet there is no electrician in this country getting anywhere near as much as the average solicitor these days, where i was in holland the criteria for wages was much fairer, they were based on 1 level of education/training. 2 longevity in the industry and 3 the amount of dependents the worker had, i believe ireland had a similar system at one time when it wasnt a communist country

@Tom. because they earn more.

They already pay more tax, and receive far less in return. Check the figures. See which income brackets generate most of the tax take.

There is a clever way around that – under-declare your revenue.

Companies pay corporation tax. Self employed people don’t.

“under-declare your revenue.”

Tax evasion? That’s not clever.

We are paying enough tax FFS. What country do you live in?

I’m surprised this comment has received such a negative response. I totally agree with you Darragh.

There are people who earn far more than 200k a year after taxes and they are not paid in PAYE.

“Nobody deserves to take home 200K a year after taxes while people starve. No matter how intelligent or hard working they are. ”

Wow, Just Wow, That is the single most idiotic thing I have ever seen, I actually feel less intelligent for reading it,

If you feel less intelligent Stephen, it might be because you more than likely are.

What you are saying is that you justify 1 person having 4000e take home pay a week while others have no heating or food? Meanwhile the president of america, the most Powerful man in the world, earns less…. And insult me in the process

Well done Stephen, well done!

The tax reliefs and subsidies that benefit the super rich and big business are the most blatant example of whose class interests successive governments in Ireland have served. According to Dr. Michael Collins, an economist and former member of the commission of taxation, €11 billion is spent on these expenditures each year the majority of which benefit the “golden circle” of Irish society. In fact 80% of the tax reliefs on pensions go towards the top 20% of earners.

Fergal, thank you. I will be chuckling to myself for quiet a while after reading your comment.

If I was in the market for circus acts you would be high up on my list.

Don’t worry Fergal, in the new Ireland there won’t be anybody earning 200K a year after taxes … but there’ll be a lot more starving togetherness.

Complete rubbish that it lowered tax rates on high earners.

Rubbish, the USC brought the 41% to 52% tax. Most people in the “higher” bracket pay more tax now then they take home. So if you don’t earn enough you are tax exempt, if you are rich you pay a low percent or no tax. A certain group is paying all the tax and the government keeps on hitting them.

I remember reading when it came in that someone who earns €1 million a year took home and extra €30/40k a year due to the USC reducing their tax bill. I’m not referring to people on €50/60k who pay 41% tax rate. Sure wasn’t there an IMF report that said high big earners have got away Scott free

Don’t worry David we all mix up a ‘+’ and a ‘-’ at some stage.

David you are correct, the old system of levies was costing the higher earners more. From memory the current USC systems means that people earning more than €120k are better off now compared to the older system.

Ah, Jesus.

You’re actually wrong, David and Eric are correct. The top decile of earners have done very well indeed out of austerity and USC to date – over 10% increase in their disposable income since 2008. But don’t let facts get in the way…

lol, i guess your loaded and full of it. Do us all a favour and shut up you moron!

I dont think high earners should pay more usc. It should be means tested if ya want to be fair but everyone should pay the same. I dont think anyone should have to pay it at all. Its the mess the government has got us into. The country is alot worse than we even realize and I think its goin to get a hell of alot worse!

Agreed

@marnie

The Government didn’t get us into this mess, Fianna Fail (as the last Government) did.

This Government is trying to get us OUT of the mess

How anyone could disagree with this is beyond me. Personally, I think tax exiles should have their passports revoked and be declared persona non grata, never again to be allowed to enter the country. As things stand, they’re having their cakes and eating them.

If they are the rick folk, they are also the anti-government, anti-growth, anti-democratic, anti-prosperity, anti-intellectual and pro-empty soundbite folk.

It’s stupid as it is populous idea that doesn’t solve anything. We should all pay our share but these socialist/communist ideas just don’t work. We need more people in the tax net, a new tax system and a new social welfare system.

Any person who earns over €250,009 PA should also pay Income Tax on the excess at 80 per cent – Dermot O Reilly

Meanwhile, in other news.

Dermot O’Reilly is a member of the Institute of taxation in Ireland.

Whoda thunk it?

Dermot, would you like to become an honoury member of my new institute – The institute of gombeens that spend their evenings spouting reprehensible hard-line socialist bile on the Journal.ie

You may not agree with it; but I’m unsure what’s so “reprehensible” about it?

I see far more right wing sentiment on thejournal.ie than socialist ,except when specific issues of austerity come up.

thejournal.ie: Ireland’s answer to the Daily Mail, where middle Ireland comes to bleat. Honestly, this is fcking depressing.

So, Michael, I guess you earn about 59k then?….