No no Angela would not give permission !!

Nobody gave the Icelandic people permission to pull the plug on their government, it’s not for us to wait for Labour to do it, its for us to leave the government with no choice but to pull the plug on themselves. If this government serves its term and imposes starvation and homelessness on its citizens, its our fault.

There was no government election manifesto. The Government came into being after the election. Anyone who votes for a politician on the basis of promises only has themselves to blame. Also, you can’t expect a party to deliver completely on a manifesto unless it has an overall majority, and even then it’s highly unrealistic, because implementing a manifesto involves others, and we don’t have a dictatorship, changes must be negotiated.

Good point, labour will become the next greens if they are not careful.

if Labour had any balls they would have stayed in opposition.

A problem is labour aren’t voicing their objection to certain policies. They’re playing happy families as shown from the non- press conference recently. I voted labour in order to see change come about, I wanted something better but it’s more of the self – serving same. Sherlock, rabbitte, Gilmore and Quinn are all reasons I won’t vote labour in the future.

Richard- your arguments are valid, but you are ignoring the elephant in the room. People are angry BECAUSE Labour have been so placid and willing, when implementing FG’s policies. They have shown no backbone or willingness to defend the plight of ordinary working people. While having great policies makes for an interesting election, it is implementing them and remaining true to your supporters that makes for great governance. Labour have failed the people spectacularly, and I can assure you they will pay a hefty price in the next election. FG are what they are, and their voters know what they are getting. The country has a large conservative, centre right population, who can relate to their top-down thinking. Labour, however, are silent passengers, who claim repeatedly to be left wing and socialist, but yet work tirelessly to implant right wing initiatives and repeatedly disappoint their support base? Does this seem like blameless party actions to you? Should people accept Labours rhetoric, and be grateful that they say they care, even though they have no intention of actually doing anything about the plight of the nations working class? They are a centrist party, Richard, which should abandon the socialist rhetoric altogether, and stop paying the working class a disservice by giving their issues lip service, when both their heart and agenda is focussed on maintaing power, at all costs. They are FF/FG in a cheaper suit. They are pop- culture socialists, at best, and consciously misleading their supporters, at worst.

Phew, might have turned up 12 months early

Sinn Fein wouldn’t have the greatest of track records out of power…..

… or in power, the state of the North these days. Their shutting hospitals and schools left right and centre up there. The two face of Sinn Fein, although, I think this is the fifth or six side I’ve seen at this stage.

SF pay lip service to socialism. Socialists tend to think tax is a good thing. If you are annoyed about paying various forms of tax, voting socialist won’t make much sense.

JTHM,

In your bubble, nothing makes sense. You are a conservative supporter of parties like Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

Actually no – I went from voting SWP to SF, but was so disgusted with SF when dealing with the party members face-to-face that I swore I’d never vote for them again. I’ve never voted FG and never would. I’ve voted FF once in my life, and that was to vote for the candidate, not the party. I left Ireland years ago and it’s unlikely I’ll return until after the current crop of political gougers, cronies and sociopaths have been pensioned off. Get your facts straight and make less assumptions about people. In other words, stop following the SF drone model. Not even the SF higher-ups respect the SF drone.

Voting Sinn Féin for *LOWER* taxes…..

You obviously don’t know anything about Sinn Féin so.

Yes they could

Anyone but FG – LAB – FF

Elrat,

Having being lied to by FG, I will never vote for them or LAB again. Personally, I will be voting for SF in the next election.

Elrat, Dan Hannan a UK Tory MEP predicted all that has come to pass January last year: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100073206/irish-election-all-the-main-parties-promise-to-carry-on-with-the-current-disastrous-strategy/

It’s remarkably accurate:

So let’s assume some sort of FG-Labour government. It will pursue the same policies as the current administration, but obviously won’t say so.

”What’s the alternative ?”

That’s the problem with the rigid Irish electorate. Never let go of your traditional party lines and afraid for change. That’s why the country is a bankrupt slave.

There are always alternatives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-SiYQ8s_6I

Elrat, if the only alternative is to remain with this government of thieves and plunderers then id take my chances. what else have Ireland to lose? Nothing. By 2015 the bones of the Irish people will have been picked clean. There will still be new tax after new tax, all designed to pay or another salery cap cheat and backhander, for tax cheats and loan defaulters. Like i said, I’d rather take my chances

FG/ FF… Only solution to keeping SF out. Labour and FG are going to get hammered in next election but FG will probably have enough seats to form up with the party that’s in 3rd place, probably FF.

Can’t see there being enough SF/socialists/independents to mount a serious challenge next election.

Yes there definitely aren’t enough real parties like the Independents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA

The Independents are not a party. That’s why they’re called independants.

Will be voting Sinn Fein again, muppets will vote to keep the status quo though, and on and on it goes

Most of the independents are parish pumpers. To wish them to be near power is just a wish for the old “deals” that were done with Lowry and the Healy Rae’s in the past.

And don’t think that the likes of Ming or Wallace won’t want a few sweeties for their constituencies too.

They will.

Create a divide in fg more like.

GRT – the link is not working :(

That’s all well and good, but we know when the next season of Geordie Shore starts, do you?

That’d be one way to promote emigration…

It wouldn’t promote emigration. Only the posh snobs who advocate class warfare constantly brag about leaving if they don’t get the result they want. Nothing more than a conservative taliban.

Yes it would. It is not a matter of current politics, it’s a matter of a significant proportion of the population seeing SF not as a political party, but as a terrorist organisation who promote hatred and violence. I am NOT saying I hold this view, I am neutral on the subject, but is naive to dismiss that many do believe this. And please don’t throw terms like “taliban” around, it makes you sound like a tabloid.

Sinn fein will make good gains in the next election at labours expense. Ff will gain slightly, fg will have a marginal drop, independents will do well and we might even see the return of the greens. Labour are definitely the losers in this game. I’ll be voting independent in case you ask. All in all I think it’s still fg election to lose. If the economy is improving most people won’t want to rock the boat, that how ff hung on in berties last election, better the devil you know etc. If I had to put a bet on right now it would be for fg to win, forming a gov with a neutered labour and a group of indos. Though imagine if we got a fg ff coalition!

@JTHM, we all moved on after the Good Friday Agreement, you need to stop being childish and do the same, and in case you haven’t been around the last 18 months, emigration is in full swing

You Reacted… Good of you to show your ignorance, maybe read a comment before you comment on it. Classic leftie logic – if it gets the blood pumping and the ire rising, no need for it to be true.

Yeah, not sure where you’re coming from there, nothing and auld cuppa and a hug won’t cure Karswell *ruffles hair*

@ You Re… you criticized a commenter ( JMTH ) for giving an opinion when he/she clearly stated that this was not his/her opinion. You didn’t read his/her post properly. You were wrong. What’s not to get?

“On the 27-11-2010, 100,000 people marched in protest against their ongoing immiseration by a criminal Irish government, hell bent on forcing on them and the most vulnerable in Irish society the gambling debts of their cronies in the financial and property developer sector of the Irish economy.”
Nothing has changed, fine gael need to be told to leave like ff were. There plan all along was to just continue to do what ff were doing and they told us nothing but lies to trick us into voting for them. We need seriously change in this country to rid Ireland of corruption. We messed up last time because we should have given the people more say in what happens because our government has messed up everything they try to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0AKtj7nZG0&feature=related

Must be an election year. Let me check.

Yep.

Kenny for Ex-Taoiseach 2012.

Credible alternatives: Socialists, Independents and SF.

Socialists……lol

People having some difficulty understanding the word ‘credible’ – ‘socialists’ or ‘sf’ haven’t a remote passing resemblance to the word hence the reason 90% of the country laughs at the notion of them been in power when it comes to actual general elections( NOTE- Twitter or Politcis.ie polls aren’t the country!!)

Sean,

The country comprises of placid voters who voted to destroy the country in 2002, 2007 and 2011.

Traditional family values runs deep in Irish voting culture (mostly in 30+ age group).

The younger generation is changing for the better.

Absolutely correct that there are no credible alternatives. Also, for all their complaining, I don’t believe any of the opposition parties truly want an election in the near future; they haven’t as yet consolidated their supporters and they are aware that, if they were calling the shots, they’d probably end up being seen as being as ineffective as the current administration. Remaining in opposition is a safer and more popular place to be.

So Sean, you must reckon that FG were the credible alternative to FF……funny that then it’s widely accepted and proven that they are doing the exact same as FF and following the same path….you must have a skewed understanding of “alternative”.
There’s no such type of voter that (wud) would swing fg ->sf?

Here’s where your understanding also flounders, ever pause to think that people who may have voted for the main parties are sick and tired of getting the same old crap, the same shit under a different banner and are willing to make the jump to SF???…… ever contemplate that or are you still part of the clique who inherits an allegiance and clings to it no matter what?

“We demand a democracy that shows zero tolerance to corruption”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBbI257cOQ

@ireland reborn, for that you need a population that stands up against corruption.

@ YRHH – please take the time to actually read my comment. You’ve replied to your assumption, not to you I wrote.

This looks like a nation that stands up to corruption here. We just made the mistake of not changing the rules. Fine Gael are following the same plan that 100,000 Irish people protested against. It’s time to get back out on the streets but this time we need a follow through plan.
The Peoples Plan
1. Make the banks pay for their mistakes.
2. Arrest all corrupt politicians and bankers.
3. Re-direct all public finances to Schools, Hospitals, and to people who enhance our society.
4. Begin using an Irish version of Direct Democracy and call a referendum on all the major problems we face.
5. Start planning for our future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0AKtj7nZG0&feature=related

@ Ireland Reborn:

1. Make the banks pay for their mistakes – how exactly? The banks are broke.

2. Arrest all corrupt politicians and bankers – one point I agree with, as long of course as you have evidence of corruption.

3. Re-direct all public finances to Schools, Hospitals, and to people who enhance our society – What about other areas that need to be financed? Roads, public transport, the gardai and the courts no longer suitable for financing? Also what is the widely accepted definition of “people who enhance our society”?

4. Begin using an Irish version of Direct Democracy and call a referendum on all the major problems we face – Again what is the definition of a major problem? Already we have had individuals on here complaining about too many referendums.

5. Start planning for our future – how long into the future? What type of planning? Frequently there are plans there, for most government departments and agencies. Irish people just don’t bother reading them.

Hi Ryan,
Thanks very much for your questions. If you want to know all the answers add us on facebook :-)

What is your scientific basis? I will be voting for the Socialist Party, never Labor again.

I’m not sure a swing of votes from Labour to SF/Socialists will be enough to get a socialist government in Ireland.
Many of those public sector labour votes could stray back to FF if public sector pay is touched in the coming years. You’d have FF bleating about how they brought in Croke park and promising the world.

Ireland is a centrist democracy. We don’t vote for hard libertarianism, as we’re culturally placid and easily led. As a formerly occupied nation we don’t vote for hard authoritarianism. We don’t vote for the hard left economically, as we’re mé-féiners in nature with an unhealthy obsession with personal ownership of property etc, and we have a relatively strong middle-class core looking out for themselves. We don’t vote for hard right economically, because we actually generally believe in decent standards of living – we like socialism in theory, but we definitely believe that some should be more equal than others, so we subscribe to the basic standard of living ideals.

It would be a massively interesting project from a purely political perspective, but I’m not sure it would come off. I think the left vote remains very fractured in Ireland. A lot of people who should form a base for the left vote are swayed by Independents. As services are repealed in rural Ireland, I can only see this strengthening the hand of the independent campaigning on something like Acute Care hospital services in Roscommon.

From a personal perspective, I will again vote independent, and it won’t be the type that gets in. I find my political and social ideological representatives (or approximations thereof) tend to be independents trying to cover all the angles, rather than big issue candidates, and so end up leaving in early rounds.

Well there’s certainly no scientific basis in *I’M voting for them, therefore they’ll probably win on a landslide*

Polling shows that Sinn Féin have peaked at 25% but in recent times have settled in the mid-high teens.

Even if they managed to get 25% in a national election they’d have to go into coalition with Fianna Fáil or Labour to make it work. Independents and smaller parties wouldn’t have the numbers.

Your free you know, to avoid this site!

How’d you vote Declan?

Point is the Poll’s on this site are a joke…They in no way reflect the electorate…

I agree to an extent. The polls are more for fun I think. As I type 50% don’t think they’ll last the term. Wishful thinking.

You know where the Airport is… No one is stopping you… MOVE.

Grow up, Tim.

”Indies and Martin’s new party”

They pose a greater danger than the Socialist party. You will not be missed…

I just love Tim spirt of inclusiveness and respect for differences of opinion, don’t you?

@ Damocles

There are others if you bother to look!
Here’s a help: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79609751&postcount=188

Thanks Jeff, seems a slight predomination of the accursèd socialists though.

I’d recommend the IDP then.
Still work to be done by them but they are fresh, not attached to the present cronies and are starting from the foundation upwards. All help/instruction is gratefully received in that which is best for the country.

Don’t you mean, Too Kool For Skool option?

Brian Lenihan bankrupted the country. He has the opportunity to skip the guarantees but chose not to do so. That left Ireland with massive liabilities which forced us into a bailout and more austerity.

You are a typical illiterate and brainwashed FF follower. Keep drinking your kool aid because FF are never getting back to power again. People would commit suicide before electing FF again.

Thanks to your ‘good apple’ looking after his golden circle friends, my son came into the world with a 70 grand debt around his neck.

You’re right Steven, I think some people will disagree with you. I would for one, he was the first person I actually didn’t feel sadness for at hearing of his premature death…I remember thinking we should have closed off Dame St and had a party like we did for the two yoyo’s who visited us that summer.

@steven – not sure if trolling. Lenihan, I have gear heard was a nice man that you could have a laugh with. Unfortunately, he was also instrumental in putting a financial noose around our neck. With ffriends like that….

@ Bronagh: That’s actually the nastiest comment I’ve read on this site ever.

Why would anyone bother being a politician when nasty keyboard warriors like you revel in their early deaths? Brian Lenihan may done things wrong but he had more bravery than a nasty, horrible person like you!

IMO Brian Lenihan should have resigned when he realised that he wasn’t going to get better. He made one of the most important decisions for this country since the founding of the state, and he did so while suffering emotional turmoil and stress in his private and family life. I’m sure he probably was a nice person but he should have stood down when he was diagnosed with cancer. By not doing so, he probably made his own health worse aswell as that of the public purse.

@bronagh, what a horrible comment, you should be ashamed of yourself.

They would vote to be with the Socialists before joining FF.

Steven “Kool Aid” is a particular reference to the Jonestown massacre and a general reference to blind unquestioning belief.

I was looking at the IDP site and they don’t explicitly mention Socialism, that might be a step in the right direction.

bit of a dumb statement to make seeing as fg/lab and ff are responsible for the mess we`re in but hey ur entitled to be deluded so please continue

By legitimate I guess you mean corrupt in FF/FGs case.Accurate classification of Labour as a party of the right though..

Nope. It’s SF and Independents for future governance. I will be voting for them too.

Yes but SF wouldnt, completely opposite to their ideology and they would be destroyed after it.

Sure Fiachra, sure. DUP?

Fine Gael will sooner go into coalition with Fianna Fáil than they would with Sinn Féin.

Sinn Fein have an ideology?

In Iceland, the first European country to wake up to an economic crash, people became aware that they could and should intervene in society and started demanding more democratic participation.
The payment of bank debts by citizens went to referendum. The government was forced to create a Council to write a new constitution: a citizens’ group – without politicians, lawyers or university professors – who opened the discussion process to everybody and managed to approve by consensus a draft proposal.

In Iceland, many citizens are now organized in associations and have substantial proposals for a society where everyone can participate.

http://potspansdocumentary.wordpress.com/