Ex-Government Party TDs by their silence, were buying votes … while not directly exchanging money with the slave camps, they ensured they got elected and onto the gravy train… they are every bit as guilty as the perpetrators.

When the truth comes out with what is taking place in our courts between the banks their buddies and the judiciary we will be looking at the same reaction here in twenty years time ,lets hope we will not have to wait this long

Sadly, it’s not true. I bet they know that too or else they couldn’t do the things they do.

100% agreed … Every TD sitting in the Government benches prior to 1996 that is still alive today, should be put on trial for supporting the false imprisonment of these victims. There was zero excuse for this. People were calling for the work-house prisons to be closed for decades, and the TDs in the Dail at the time refused to take notice. If they dont accept their responsibility, then they have no conscience. The Gardai must take action against the colluders and the perpetrators in equal measure.
Thousands died under the Magdalene regime… ‘Never again’ is not good enough. They must all face jail time, including Kenny/Gilmore/Martin and every single ex Government TD/Minister. If shutting the labour camps was not their priority, they have no place in our society. Nuns/Priests/TDs all have to face the full recourse of the law for their crime against humanity. Anything less is just hypocritical and immoral as far as I am concerned.

Not the same Brian that was boring us about the Church on the Africa question a couple of hours ago by any chance………..

What if it is?

You said it, what looks like a guard of honour is in fact a prison guard ensuring none of the women ‘escaped’ from listening to one of the surviving victims this morning on Radio 4 it was clear from her description that these women were locked up most of the time and rarely allowed outside the walls of their slave camps. How this was ever allowed to happen demands that the politicians in charge of the state, the gardai and the bishops/head of these orders up to 1996 be brought to book for the crimes committed against these women. That is going to include many politicians from all parties who are still around today, civil servants, councillors, ex garda, bishops, priests, nuns and those who worked in or ran the various day to day operations of these gulags. The families of some of these victims also have questions to answer. Finally there’s the Irish people at large, how many people knew about these camps but said or did nothing?

Excellently put Marlon. I’m not in any way religious but I echo your sentiments re seperation of church and state completely and also your mention to look towards the future.

Whoa! I don’t disagree with your sentiment, but are you seriously trying to compare the shame of the Magdalene Laundries with 80,000 murdered people?

Look at that photo, are they Gardai or prison officers? If so, what are they doing at a religious procession?

And our forefathers including yours were like the Polish living around the camps, didn’t lift a finger to help those interned……….

False equivalence, I’m afraid.

As pointed out the photograph speaks a thousand words. They were not free women/free citizens.

The Magdalen Laundries were concentration/work camps for certain. State and Church are guilty of enslaving women in those commercial for profit laundries. The Irish people must share the guilt and vow never again.

Because contrary to popular belief, the catholic church still run Ireland, you might think the ECB/IMF do but in reality it’s the prince of Rome who is the real power in Ireland. You just have to look at the Irish politicians and why it is they have failed to prosecute a single priest, nun, brother or bishop in connection with the clerical abuse scandals. Why these religious orders are still refusing to pay their victims compensation, why Ahern allowed them off the hook for €millions. Why McAleese’s terms of reference were so narrow and why even now as the report is due, he is not going to recommend compensation to the victims. Why he won’t be accusing the orders of deliberately hiding ‘Key files’ which have very conveniently ‘gone missing” as reported in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/key-magdalene-laundry-files-went-missing-says-mcaleese-3377112.html This already has “WHITEWASH” written all over it.

True you only have to look at other things that are not for the peoples good health but are being ignored, like fluoride in the water, there is soooo much evidence against it, but again its been passed by the TD’s. Not even an open debate as to why Ireland is still using it when every other country in Europe has banned it or is in the process of doing so.

Compensated by whom exactly ? The government. More money from the taxpayer. I hope the government doesn’t pay a penny and the church foots the bill.

Who’ll make the church pay, our politicians?

The State was involved. Children were made wards of court, sometimes even when living with relatives. Then they were sent to the convents/industrial schools where they were treated effectively as slaves. If they ran away the Guards were called and were only too happy to bring them back. Is that not enough State involvement for you?

The State was involved and the people of Ireland allowed this to happen.

No matter that I and others were only children or not alive when this took place, we all owe these people compensation for the Church & State’s wrongdoing and for our relatives staying silent.

The Catholic Church should, at last, be told to leave this State however and we should look to repossess and sell their land make some of the money back or give as compensation to the victims of systemic child abuse.

Thomas…. A politician would never openly disagree with the church. For them… This would be political suicide. Instead they comment behind close doors…. And wait…. Until the people demand foul. Then they jump on the bandwagon and take credit.

It’s not like our politicians have an independent thought!

I would also say… The avareage politician’s mantra is…. Don’t disrupt the apple cart!

Expect a sweetheart deal limiting their financial liability.

Hi Conor,

Cabinet meetings are held in private so we won’t hear anything on the report until later today. The Taoiseach will be in the Dáil for leaders questions from about 3pm and I would imagine the report will be raised immediately.

We’ll also be reporting from survivor press conferences later this afternoon.
Sinéad

Nice one, thanks Sinead!

Indeed. The trustees of Ruhama operated the Magdalene Laundries.

I guess it comes back to whether you believe being ‘institutionalized’ is a good enough reason for allowing human rights abuse or not. If the ‘remaining nuns’ you speak of were as young women controlling and abusing the women in the laundries then I believe whether they are trying now to care for the remaining women or not doesn’t excuse them from spending the majority of their youth either standing by and watching, not speaking out against or publicizing or even participating in the extreme abuse of these women.

these women could only have ‘inherited’ an awful past if they entered the nunnery/convent/laundry AFTER it had ceased operating, otherwise they were part of it.

@CABK. Again, I have in no way defended human rights abuses or denied that they happened. I was speaking about a specific point in time in the history of the laundries where I believe many stood by when it could have been stopped. I am not saying that the nuns had no role to play in the laundries, just that likening them to Nazis was a bit extreme in my opinion. Medical professionals and other outside individuals regularly saw these women in the 80s and 90s and yet did any of them “speak out”?

Many of the women were at this point institutionalized but left in the care of the convent. The HSE and other powers that be did not try to re-home them in a state nursing home/ensure that their families immediately took them home. Why? I can’t give you a definitive answer but I believe it is because many saw it as a form of nursing home at this point.

As to why I believe that the younger nuns at the time did not speak out…
It was only a few decades ago that teachers regular used corporal punishment – was every single teacher back then a sadist or was it because it was a social norm at the time?
Did the younger nuns experience a similar norm – the convent was effectively a closed order for many years and the word of the priests and the mother superior was law. There are many instances in life where someone should and wants to personally call for change, but doesn’t out of fear.

I cannot and do not speak for the nuns involved. Nor do I absolve any crimes that happened. I just believe that in a similar way to other tragedies that have come to light, like industrial schools, we should look at all facets of society before we dole out blame.

The Catholic church in Ireland, where do i start? An organisation that sets out , almost from the day we are born, trying to make us, as children, cower and feel ashamed.
Telling us that we have sinned ie. committed original sin and therefore should be ashamed.
It then goes on to say, of course, that they are the only ones that can save us. Making innocents feel guilty and ashamed, a controlling mechanism the church in Ireland perfected.
Thankfully that control is now slowly melting away as their sins against innocents are being exposed and highlighted , on almost, a daily basis.

I do agree that numerous sections of society had to be aware of this abuse such as the state and doctors who saw these women and visited the laundries.

But to be honest you completely diminish the role of the nuns – saying they were ‘part’ of it when the nuns were the people who ran and controlled the laundries. They were the people who perpetuated this abuse. You yourself said these nuns you visited, for example, joined convents in their teens and when you visited they were in their 80′s when most laundries had closed.

They therefore had to be the people who were abusing and controlling these women all their lives. Unlike you I do not believe that caring for the few who are left alive after this brutal hardship and suffering now they are old absolves them from what they did. Neither do I believe that saying they are institutionalized excuses them from what they did.

You may say you do not defend human rights abuses but you specifically said you do not believe that these nuns should have charges brought against them and therefore do not seem interested in any kind of accountability and justice for the victims of Magdalene. I do not agree.

It’s quite revealing the sisters have not signed up to the journal.ie or other outlets and defended these Laundries.Let them speak for themselves.

@CABK:
“They therefore had to be the people who were abusing and controlling these women all their lives.”
And you know beyond doubt that those who remain alive today were those that carried out abuse?

“You may say you do not defend human rights abuses but you specifically said you do not believe that these nuns should have charges brought against them and therefore do not seem interested in any kind of accountability and justice for the victims of Magdalene. I do not agree.”
I believe the entire blame for every abuse perpetrated should not be laid at the feet of a few – unless proven that they committed it. That’s like saying that any teacher who is still alive and was teaching during the years of corporal punishment should shoulder all of the responsibility for any child that was ever beaten in school. I have always believed the women are owed an apology, compensation and respect – but clearly that does not merit “justice” in your world view.

wriggle out of this minister shatter

@ Si. I’m not sure how much you know about the Magdalen Laundries, or how much research you have done, but I suspect it’s very little. Otherwise I don’t know how you can stand by a statement, where you claim that the women inprisoned in these laundries benefitted, or their quality of life improved because they were taken to these institutions.

errrrrr did you read my comment, did i say these people benefitted NO I DIDNT!!!, my fact was solely for the fact that everyone in society suffered in the 40`s and 50`s. I suspect you know little either on how Ireland was probably one of the poorest countries in Europe at this time.

Is your solution to poverty imprisoning 30,000 innocent women?

Whats your solution, let them die on the streets when no one would take them in or care!

@Si, research subject before you post and stop making a fool of your self!!!

Shame on you.

No point in trying to argue with any of you, its just a case of seeing black or white with you lot. I had valid points, Take it or leave it! The Church has done a lot of good also, so im not going to argue with the likes of Thomas Blake who didnt even bother to read my first comment properly. Ireland was practically a third world country when these institutes were being run, im sure there was a hell of a lot of institutes/schools run in harsh conditions similar to this in other countries at this period.

Ye horrible man….they did the work they’re owed their wages!! A lot of the Laundry was from government ran departments too! Tax Free….ask me arse.

Call me all the names you like, I’ll not be lowering myself…..but I will say this…I know enough to know that if someone did work than they deserve a decent wage for doing it at the very least. Perhaps that money tree we grew for Hurricane Sandy relief might be good enough money for our own people!!

The one egg a year wasn’t an Easter Egg by any chance………

How about from the De Valera estate? He’s the arrogant shite who married the state to that horrific cult known as the catholic church.

It’s easy to blame the Church and the State but where were your parents and grandparents when this was all happening, keeping their heads down like sheep, it’s easy to stand up and shout when you have the crowd behind you, it’s a lot harder when your standing alone………….

Our parents and grandparents were busy being repressed and told to stay in line by the Church/State.

Listen fella,The church convinced the families of these girls that this was the only option for these so called fallen women,they would get an education and forgiveness .
While the state took there children and used them as slaves.
Its a disgrace and indefensible.

The state at the time had not got the money for the 2% (now 30%) of girls finding themselves in these circumstances.

Well said