How on earth has a tax on earnings got anything to do with a tax on property, I don’t pay my car tax or the vat on my shopping from PAYE so why should it be any different for this charge.

So yet again the PAYE worker pays while others can attempt to avoid compliance?

I have to assume by this that it may be done via tax credit reductions rather than expecting employers to process and remit payment for any property tax. What if property tax exceeds credits. Can they be negative? Lots more questions than answers.

Are there not legal difficulties with deducting this tax from salaries? Doesn’t it mean that the employee will have knowledge of how much their employees house is worth? Would something like that be allowed under data protection legislation?

Definately not, it should be collected by Noonan and Hogan goung round the country, picking people up by the ankles and shaking out the contents of their pockets!

yet again those with ‘creative accountants’ would no doubt find a loophole to avoid paying this tax, or even a way of getting it back as a rebate!. the majority of people in this country are already pinned to the collar by tax’s and charges and cant afford to pay any more, government should be spending its time finding ways of cutting expensive budgets from all departments, not increasing the burden on the already overstretched pockets of Joe public.

if the government still havent been able to get a proper list of who hasnt paid the charge yet (after months of trying), how are they going to deduct anything from their wages? also unemployment is at over 14%, how exactly do they plan on getting the money off that 14%?

Election in January

Hi folks – Just before this kicks off, as with yesterday we’d ask that you try to keep contributions focussed on the subject at hand (as in, how any tax should be collected) as opposed to the merits or otherwise of the property tax in the first place. The latter question is something we’ve already covered at some length (!) and no doubt will be returning to in the future. Thanks, as always, for your understanding!

If they want to do it fairly a bill should be issued to each household with terms & conditions so home owners can make their own arrangements to pay the tax. That way people can adjust finances accordingly & there is no ’2 tier’ system created!

Dear oh dear, still trying to discuss the right way to do the wrong thing. The focus has moved from should there be a property tax to how it should be implemented, and people are falling for it hook line and sinker. There does not need to be one, or if one is going to be introduced it should include guaranteed services which we are currently paying through the nose for, that we will be effectively paying twice for under the proposed system.

Personally, if the property tax covered (as it does in many countries) medical, household waste, water supply, schools/schoolbooks etc., it might be acceptable, but it will not. It will be used to pay down other peoples gambling debts and we will see no benefit. A further insult to the injury being endured by our people.

I dont think there will be enough left in the PAYE pocket to deduct

No it should not be collected through paye as not everyone pays it. Banding houses into categories like in the UK then fixing a price per band and allowing 12 monthly instalment plan to pay the tax is a more fair and just way of collecting the tax. Everyone should pay if it’s to be fair rich and poor alike not just the paye workers – we are targeted enough for everything else !

This idea is so easy and so unfair that the government will love it.

Most of the rest of rest of the Irish tax system is based on the simple of screwing as much as possible out of ordinary waged people, through PAYE and related systems (such as PRSI and the USC). This works very well for the government, because these taxes are very cheap and easy to collect.

Collecting a big harvest from these PAYE taxpayers reduces the need for the revenue to collect taxes from those with the real wealth, who make their money through capital gains and self-employment, and are outside the PAYE net. It’s much harder to get taxes out of them, not least because their tax liabilities have to be declared by them rather than being reported by an employer … but also because the rich can afford clever accountants to hide money and exploit tax avoidance and evasion schemes.

So, never mind the injustice. The Irish people repeatedly vote for the political parties which screw them in this way, while those same parties are funded by the tax-avoiders. That’s why the government keeps on doing this sort of thing: they know that they will get away with it.

What gives the government the right to directly take money from a persons hard earned wages for a tax that people weren’t asked or consulted about and worst all a tax that was introduced by a foreign power who have no idea how the country works

If we stopped paying the bondholders and cancelled the odius debt . we would not be having this conversation ….it is madness to think people will pay this tax …our country is being stolen away from us and we are talking about helping the thieves…wake up

I have yet to see the rich/elite/politicians, taking any pain. How much of a coward are we all, to be accepting this and they given themselves pay rises at the top end! Really people, WTF has happened to the fighting Irish?

Absolutely not. Those who can affort massive vaue homes can affort swindling accountants that will duck, dip dodge this tax. I’ve heard quotes of 7 to 8 hundred blips for an average 3 bed, anyone able say if this could be the case or am I off the mark (hope to jaysus I am)?

I still want to know where exactly €69 billion disappeared into? Who’s accounts did it land in and why if its owed back, we the poor saps must pay it. Pitch forks and torches lit and ready for names!!!

Grossly unfair to target the p.a.y.e worker who has at every turn been the first group of taxpayers to take the pain and continue to do so. Done on the pretence of local services but revenue collect for Govt not Councils. Its going on bank debt and bondholders not maintaining local infrastructure or amenities.

I think the people who paid the 100 euros may have been premature after all, God knows how this will all pan out! .

This might put it all in to context Gavin . Have a wee read see if the dots are joining .

U.N. AGENDA 21 – Do you know what it is?

Ireland is signed up to this programme which demands a dramatic reduction in current standards of living.

Fine Gael Environment Minister “Bully” Hogan was recently on an expensive state funded trip…
to RIO attending the U.N. Sustainable Development summit that is implementing Agenda 21.

Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of action to be taken globally, nationally and locally by organizations of the United Nations System, Governments, and Major Groups in every area in which human impacts on the environment.

Some key elements of U.N. Agenda 21:

1. Over 50% of the planet must be deemed uninhabitable.
2. Push people into sustainable living quarters controlled by public/private approved agencies.
3. Eliminate Private Property.
4. Eliminate need to travel unless by bike or public transportation.
5. Eliminate inalienable Individual Rights.
6. Depopulate the Planet to make it more controllable.
7. Eliminate the Middle Class.
8. Over regulate industries to push the out of business.
9. Control the world monetary system and manipulate it.

All iformation should be made public so we can make informed choices , Election in January anybody ?

Government, OUT OUT OUT NOW!!!

Deduced? You mean deducted.

A Tax on income would be more difficult to avoid or contest then a tax levied against the property itself. If they planned to tax via income would a starting point not be to get rid of rent and mortgage credits?

All well and good for the PAYE individual, but what about the unemployed who own a house? how are these going to be taxed? also, I just skipped over it, but what about people who rent? surely they won’t be targeted?

Where did the 1.5million come out of that was given to Syria, thought we were broke?

the only way property taxes should come in is if each individual county collects their own taxes and that money stays in the county. Revenue has no right to collect this money. The government seems to change ideas with the wind.

This collection method is wrong because the people who can barely afford to keep a positive balance on a weekly basis will have less to survive on, especially when all costs are increasing.

Despite it being an utterly vile attack on the middle class, I do believe that if it is to be implemented then it should be a spread out cost and one that can’t be dodged.

With that being said, Ireland in 2012 is an Ireland where the middle earners are paying for everything, the low earners are paying nothing and the highest earners aren’t paying a fair share.

If yet another lump is going to be thrown on the middle earners then the rest had better take a significant hit too.

can anyone clarify from what im picking up through the news etc that this tax be solely levied on homeowners (mortgage holders ) and local authority tenants and people in private rented accomodation will not be liable. Fine Gael and Labour have been argueing its to pay for “Local” services, roads, paths, parks etc. Are they not availing of these services. Nobody wants this tax but if its ti be paid why the inequity

THE PROPERTY TAX SHOULD BE ABOLISHED .IT IS DAYLIGHT ROBBERY.Period.

I dont agree with the Property tax, Not one bit…As I said “IF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN”

I suppose that using an existing system to collect a tax would be more cost efficient than creating a new system to collect a tax.

Were all just chatting among ourselves in this. How about going to the source direct. Your local Govt TD, or cabinet members they have email and phone numbers. My email to my local Govt TD is gone. No answer and im going on the phone or a visit. Politicians love Apathy get on their case a get a friend to do the same. Voice your opinions and question whats happening. Tommorow is too late.

croke park has to go its not sustainable why should we be paying such huge sums above the European norm 1600 hundred councillors in a country the size of Ireland each claiming about 30,000 and more Manchester has a population of 4 million and has one council whats happened with all this reform we were supposed to get why all the quangos havent been abolished same old story jobs for the boys ,protect the elite .there is no need for a property tax the money could be raised by making the real hard choices but no its easy to hit the less well off

Oops l voted yes because I thought it meant that the tax could be deducted from my PAYE thereby reducing my PAYE by the the value of the houshold charge. How much are properties worth in Hope where I live at the moment? :)

not a blonde moment ….bit cheeky of you …. if the rest of the people in the country think like you …the shower in the dail will be there for ever …. wake up and educate yourself …maybe a blonde somewhere could help

The unions will probaly get properly involved now if the new property tax is deducted out of peoples wages- the waterford branch of the unite trade union passed a motion in favour of Industrial action in the event of property taxes being deducted at source,plus calling on all the Public Service unions not to cooperate with plans to collect-the following motion in the link-It might be early days but I expect other branchs of the Unite trade union to follow suit, plus some other trade unions to follow suit-as they will come under pressure from their members to do so.

http://www.facebook.com/UnitedLeftAlliance/posts/378995575486991

we allready pay a household charge
it was introduced when the government of the day in the 70,s removed the house rate,s and put it on EVERYONES income tax but a lot of people have forgoten this.
and lets not forget the tax on the air we breath the so called carbon/ green tax would it not suit us better if the regional government of the eu the dail kept their mouths shut that might go someway to polution down because all they seem to do is talk CRAP

The biggest con of all times is PAYE. When a worker had to pay his tax by going in and paying it or sending off a cheque there was only so much they could screw out of the worker. A few %. Now they can screw 25% because they take it before the worker even gets it. This property tax scam will be the same. Because it will be easy to steal off the downtrodden PAYE gobsh1tes, they’ll just keep increasing it. Tax is theft. It’s what politicians and lobby groups get their power from. Spending your money.

No, it shouldn’t. The govt promised not to hike up income tax.

The Property Tax should be self-declared. Anyone found not to be declaring their asset should be heavily audited to see what else they’ve been “forgetting” to tell Revenue about.

I think deducting the payment from your wages is a great idea!!!
It will be great fun if the company you work for goes out of business because they owed money to Revenue, think Target Express.
So not only will you lose your job but you could also lose your house for non-payment of property tax.
Imagine the fun if at the start of the year you own a house, but sell it in March. How long before your PAYE gets sorted?
What idiot in Government came up with this idea? Their IQ must be lower than the percentage of households that have registered so far.

My last comment was not agreeing that the Household Tax should be deducted from PAYE, definitely not! :)

Have it as the default but people can opt out. Hard to see how most households are going to want to switch away from regular deductions to finding another €500 in the week between Christmas and New Year’s (or whenever i’d be due) but you can’t stop them if they want to!

If it is going to happen, this is a good way to pay it if the amount is small, but expecting people to pay vasts amounts of money in one lump sum is stupid, the person acountable for THAT should be sacked. I would agree to pay 2 euro a week with PAYE but not the lump sum….Sorry but cant afford it being on the welfare for over three years, barely surviving on the €30 i get a week for the welfare….

Gagsy 99, one problem with freedom of speech is those that can post but hide their names.

Another is that you upset people by telling them the truth. Personal income tax used to be 1% when you sent off a cheque. Imagine trying to get someone on the average industrial wage to send off a cheque once a year for €10,000. Wouldn’t work.

Please excuse me for the cynicism but it sometimes seems as if people are more bothered by their own situation than they are for the safety of the state and the society in which they dwell.

How did a people become so selfish and jaded?

Well if that’s how mortgage interest relief is done, then no problem

I knew you would get me started on the property tax! The silly days are over – it’s essential for Ireland’s future solvency and I’m amazed it’s not here already. In my opinion, it should be based on the rateable value of the property and it should be collected by direct debit by local coucils and NOT connected to PAYE. Anyone experiencing real difficulties or in government owned housing will be exempt anyway – which is how it should be. My property in England is 60sqmetres (I know – very small). I pay 1600 euro (equivalent) per year. I’m sure it will be years before Irish householders have to pay that amount but it’s coming. Render to Caesar…

So I see that despite the reasonable request to try to keep the forum to the subject at hand we have some posters waffling on and completely misquoting and twisting the UN Agenda 21 , a COMPLETELY UNRELATED to this topic agreement , designed to try set parameters to develop the world in a sustainable way ,its a very detailed ( long) but clearly available online and any reasonable educated person who reads it will see that what posted here is just utter nonsense , as requested by the journal can we please keep conspiracy theories for another time and place not for bringing into this forum

Increase the vat on electricity, gas and home heating oil. Costs nothing to collect. Poorer people tend to have lower bills in these areas.

Going through PAYE leaves the option open for unused tax credits to reduce a persons Property Tax bill. Such a measure would be a massive help to the lowest paid workers.

When are you going to stop seeing the government as ‘them’ and accept that they are ‘us’? Less of the victim status and more of the ‘let’s work together to do what’s best for Ireland in the future’. Government is chosen by the people, for the people and should be constantly accountable to the people, while the people must agree to do what the people’s government reasonably suggests. This household charge is reasonable and essential. Please stop moaning and bite the bullet. It’s better than a cannonball : )