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Dublin: 19 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Column: I’m so grateful I had an unplanned pregnancy in America, not Ireland

An Irish girl recalls her experience of deciding to have a termination – and her relief that she was away from home.

Image: BrownGuacamole via Flickr

I WOULD TRULY love to be able to submit this piece with my name attached. However, as a young woman in modern Ireland, I feel it’s not possible due to the stigma and negativity attached to the subject matter.

I love being Irish, I love my country, I love my small town, but this is a very dark moment for Irish women and their rights.

The majority of Irish women who choose abortion have to travel to the UK to carry out the procedure. Deciding to have an abortion is a tough enough process to undertake, without the physical, financial and mental anguish of having to travel to another country in secrecy.

All of this explains why I was so lucky to have gotten pregnant while in America and not in Ireland.

I learned my lesson the hard way a few months ago while on an exchange to America.

Interning in New York for a year and working in a bar, I had an irresponsible encounter with an old crush. One thing led to another, and we ended up sleeping together that night.

The sex was uncoordinated and alcohol-fuelled. He didn’t come at all, never mind inside me. Which was a good thing, I thought, as we stupidly hadn’t used condoms and I had recently come off birth control.

Sex education

The typical Irish Catholic of my age with limited sex education usually would not be too concerned about pre-ejaculation. You see, in this Catholic country, where the division between the Catholic Church and State is often unclear, sex education was not a priority when we attended school. To this day many of my peers – 20 to 30-year-olds – admit to having limited knowledge on sexual health and contraception issues.

Still, about five hours after the unprotected deed was done, I started getting ‘pregnancy paranoia’. My dramatic Catholic mother had warned me that I had “highly fertile genes” and that all five of my siblings were unplanned. So I decided to take Plan B, mostly to put a stop to my paranoia.

Many Irish girls in similar situations are very hesitant to get Plan B.

Up until recent months, it was only available by visiting a doctor to get a prescription. A few months ago this was changed and it was made available over the counter in pharmacies. To obtain it, one must have a consultation with the pharmacist. The Irish solution is – wait for it – build a glass room in the middle of the pharmacy!

This glass room is meant to be a general private consultation room, but among my peers it is nicknamed the ‘morning after box’. In a small town like the one we live in, where you know everyone and everyone knows you, it’s pretty embarrassing to be seen shuffling out of that box on a Monday morning after a weekend contraception failure.

Courage

During my most recent trip to my local pharmacy to pick up a prescription, I silently observed and empathised with the terrified-looking teenager in a local school uniform who entered and exited the ‘morning after box’. I’m guessing she felt the same way, judging by her frightened manner and the ashamed expression on her face. I was proud of her for being brave enough to have the courage to protect herself, even at the risk of facing embarrassment.

In New York, I easily obtained the pill at CVS, popped it that day, and vowed never to be careless again.

About six weeks after that I was constantly tired, had low energy levels, and weird cravings for red meat (which I rarely eat) and chocolate. I was telling my friend about these cravings, which I suspected were signs that my period was coming, as I hadn’t had one since I had taken that morning-after pill.

The next day at a bar, a friend bought me a shot, which I drank and promptly puked back up.

The same friend with whom I had had the ‘period coming’ conversation with looked at me worryingly and promptly popped out to pick me up a pregnancy test.

I went to the bathroom with her, giggling at the ridiculousness of the situation; I felt at the back of my mind that I was overreacting, but that I’d do the test to calm my mind.

And it was positive.

Young, single, pregnant

That night, I repeated the process four more times, just in case the others were faulty. Surely I couldn’t be pregnant? I’d barely had sex AND I had taken Plan B.

Long story short, I was young, single, alone and pregnant in New York; and scared shitless. I told the father, but he proved to be not very caring, understanding or supportive.

However, I was surrounded by a most amazing group of friends who were willing to help me with anything, from arranging appointments with Planned Parenthood, to accompanying me there, to offering assistance with the expense. It really showed me the true kindness and love of the people I had met in a foreign city.

In New York, I was able to be open with my friends about what was going on and have the ability to talk through my feelings with an incredibly supportive and non-judgmental network of people.

In Ireland, one simply does not talk about such an experience openly among their peers, even though I would consider my group to be liberal, intelligent young women.

I have told a few close friends, and while they have reacted to my experience with kindness, compassion and sensitivity, I’m utterly terrified of my parents and wider social circle finding out.

Stigma

I was lucky to have gotten pregnant in a country where I had the right to choose and the ability to be open and honest about my situation. However, I returned to Ireland a few months after, carrying this secret, unable to tell friends and family given the stigma surrounding it.

Termination is never an ideal choice; however, it was the right one for me at the time, and I feel that I have learnt and grown as a person as a result of this experience.

I am silently grieving for Savita Halappanavar and her unborn child, and publicly supporting demonstrations in support of her cause, while still keeping secret the story of my unborn child for fear of stigma in my small town. I only wish that Savita could have had her experience in America, where proper abortion legislation is in place to safeguard the life of a woman.

I hope that Savita’s death has not been in vain and that legislation will be introduced towards the separation of Church and State in women’s health issues.

Reprinted with permission from xoJane.com, where a version of this article was originally published. The author is 25 years old and wishes to remain anonymous.

Open thread: Do you remember when buying contraceptives was illegal?>

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Comments (220 Comments)

  • i think she was brave to share her story, she used emergency contraception she had no support from the father and was not ready to have a baby. she didnt brag about it just told her story.

    Reply
    • I thinks its so sad she didnt have the courage to proceed with the pregnancy, and experience the love of that child. Also, the poor baby never had a chance to live and be nurtured.

      Reply
    • Padraig, that sort of judgemental attitude is *exactly* what she was talking about. You don’t know her, you don’t know her situation, you’ll never have a womb, you’ll never have a crisis pregnancy, so less of the guff about her “courage” eh – it takes far more of it for her to write about than it takes for you to judge her here.

      Reply
  • I think it’s a sad commentary on how far we haven’t come in women’s rights that people are so comfortable labelling women as murderers who choose to have an abortion. People seem very comfortable assuming the choice was a simple and uncomplicated one that women should be villanised for making. I think it’s a bit easy to be honest to throw around these accusations without truly understanding the process they must have gone through. As for the comments about dealing with the consequences of their actions i.e. a one night stand, it really isn’t that simple. Bringing an unwanted child to term and giving birth can have a long term psychological effect on the mother and the child. We consistently ignore the 12 women a day that almost 4,500 Irish women a year that seek an abortion in the UK for various reasons. If we keep ignoring this we are just making it someone else’s problem. We need better education, better support and to begin a dialogue so we don’t keep ignoring this issue. We should have the right to choose what happens to our bodies and calling these women murders is bully tactic that shows no compassion or humanity towards the woman.

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  • The author of this piece made her decision based on her situation. Her body, her life her choice. Yes it wasn’t as serious a situation as Savita but nonetheless absolutely serious to HER she made the best decision for HER life. Savita tried to make that decision several times over the course of 3 days during which time (as she was as a dentist and medically aware) knowing she was gravely ill. How dare anyone in this country deny either of these women their basic human right. I hope this changes our laws. I hope Savita didnt die in vain. In a way its poignant that she was neither catholic or irish because it highlights how ridiculous it is to have religious beliefs involved in such circumstances. So archaic, so barbaric. I actually think if she was Irish or catholic it would have been brushed under the carpet. It would be interesting to see a pro-lifer put in Savitas shoes and to have them told, yes you’re going to die and you’re going to miscarry anyway but this is a catholic country. Would they plead for their lives and ask the doctor to do anything they could? Everybody should have a choice. Full stop.

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  • It is amazing that in “modern Ireland” how people are still judgemental and how they put their own ideals/beliefs before an individual even if be they are member of their own family. Women must have the right to choose and Doctors needed to be empowered to making medical decisions to protect the woman. Great story, glad that lady wrote it to share with us, really sad she can’t put her name to it but that’s Ireland for you.

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  • True, i suppose being an adopted person I only see my circumstances. At the end of the day we can blame the state, we can blame the church but its the people in Ireland who are so quick to judge others and give them a hard time over decisions they make in THEIR lives. There is a serious amount of ignorance in this country and I for one think its quite sad.

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  • Senator Ronan Mullen saying that the chairman on the Savita enquiry is biased because he is pro-abortion is like a Saudi religious cleric saying they don’t want a westerner on the committee on whether or not women should be allowed drive because of an alleged bias.

    Reply
  • “I’m so grateful I had my abortion in America, not Ireland”

    You can’t have an abortion in Ireland. Isn’t that the whole crux of the debate?

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  • I don’t understand why men in Ireland are not held more accountable for the birth of a child. In essence, the father’s name should be placed on the birth certificate and should pay child support.

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    • John F 21/11/12 #

      Marlon. There are lots of fathers out there who would give anything to have their name on their childs birth cert, the decision ultimately lies with the mother. Fathers rights in Ireland are amongst the worst in the developed world!

      Reply
    • Thanks for the enlightenment…. This is a tragedy. Truly Ireland really must take a look at itself and decide does it really want to be a First World Country… Or does it prefer to stay in the dark ages or governed by Victorian Era opinions and laws. All people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, sex and age should be given equal rights. Picking and choosing who should and what is most comfortable looking forward and not back is how our laws and rights should be addressed.

      Reply
  • Well done for having the strength and compassion to share your experience, it seems that the only people not able to offer an opinion on this tragedy and the issue in general are the women who have been directly affected. Such a shame society has forced you into anonymity.

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    • Over 10,000+ have viewed the story, so I guess if it inspires even one more Irish woman to be honest and share their experience, then sharing such a controversial, yet honest story was worth it.

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    • Or was it something else that brought anonymity? Verification of the story, perhaps?

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    • Bullshit, this is the age old crap of omg what will the neighbours say, if you live your life like this then stop whining, I have friends who have had abortions (over 20 years ago) and have never hidden it, why should they, they have not been judged or ostracised. This is the year 2012 people I as a hated Irish Catholic (in a free society lol), can tell you that I do not judge people on their lives, I strongly support gay marriage, I strongly support the right to choose when it comes to abortion, but if this story is real then this girl truly does need help. Is this a follow up to Carrie maybe, she talks like her when describing her sexual encounter, pregnancy paranoia, ignorance in sexual education please. By the way I am 40 so i am worried that your peers 20-30 didnt have sexual education where did you go to school, in a bush. You had an abortion good girl, now get on with your life and stop going on like we care, I have more to worry about in my life like corrupt governments, and trying to make a life, not your paranoid fear of the neighbours talking.

      Reply
  • This is an honest, real life story, be it warts and all, however, it is a story that many young Irish women can relate to but are afraid to discuss openly for fear of stigma.
    The intention of the article was to speak honestly from the heart; it is more frank, honest discussions of this topic that will finally topple over the stigma surrounding the issue.
    Contraception can, and did, fail, and one cannot comprehend the mental distress surrounding an unplanned pregnancy until one is stepped into such shoes…

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  • It amazes me that some people still pronounce judgment on women who have sex “she should suffer the consequences” Why? The man she had sex with didn’t have to? “Pro life”, religious fundamentalist and right wing types want to control women, their bodies and reproductive systems, they want women “punished” for having unlicensed sex i.e. outside marriage or with more than one man ( while of course there is little judgement from them on men for having sex with multiple partners) that is the reason that they are anti choice, they do not want women to have any choice or control over their own lives, bodies and sexuality, they hide this with their so called “compassion” for women and foetuses, its all about control- force the woman to stay pregnant against her will even if she has been raped, ill,or has an unviable foetus or even in danger from the pregnancy.
    They don’t care about a pregnant woman’s right to life. But even in a non life and death situation like the above, they have no right to judge her for having sex or for having an abortion, it’s nothing to do with them, nobody knows each individual’s personal situation and they certainly don’t have to right to force anyone to stay pregnant against their will, that was her decision alone.
    If abortion were to be legalised you wouldn’t be forced to have one so if you are against abortion, a law permitting it will not affect you! Their views on this should not have any place, nor should have any influence on state legislation, its fine to have opinions, if someone is anti choice, that’s their choice, ironically, but they do not have the right to have their opinions set as law to curb the choice of others.
    It’s all about control and they are very afraid and angry right now that they might lose a small part of it.

    All we will get if “X” is legislated for is a definite law on when the doctor can intercede to terminate a pregnancy i.e. when the Mother’s life is in direct danger and even then it won’t be clear as it’s subjective, this is the bare minimum, there will be no termination if it’s felt that the Mother’s health will be damaged for life but she’s not in danger of death, her health just isn’t important enough,there will be no termination if they think she might die without a termination, it has to be definite. She gets no choice with her own healthcare in this regard and will be at the mercy of doctors trying to decide if she might or probably or definitely will die before they feel they can legally terminate.

    Even this very limited form of abortion is unacceptable to anti choice hardliners as it gives a tiny amount of choice to doctors and women having difficult pregnancies. How can you call yourself “pro life” when you think the best outcome is for a woman to die while miscarrying instead of having a termination? Savita’s foetus was miscarrying anyway, she could have been saved but now she’s dead too. Judgmental moralising should not be mistaken for compassion in people who think a pregnant woman should sacrifice her choice, health or life for her foetus no matter what the consequences for her or her family.

    Reply
    • ‘Choice’ is equated with life, health!!

      Choice being whatever whim or fear that takes you??

      Or is it ‘choice to kill another human being?’

      Use real words, please, and not nice-sounding weasel words like ‘terminating for ‘killing,’ ‘viable’ for ‘too troublesome for me.’

      Even the factual ‘end-of -life’ is preferable to ‘termination of foetus.’ As if a foetus was some sort of cancer. And ‘termination’ was like cancelling the milk-delivery.

      Reply
    • @kelly. Well said.
      @peepingass. Grow up, everyone’s situation is different as are everyone’s beliefs. Nobody is trying to persuade you to do something that doesn’t suit you so don’t ram your opinions down their throats.

      Reply
  • Just saw Ronan Mullen on news- what a little inconsiderate rat – smirking into the camera with his 1950s idealogies – Jesus I almost give up on this country

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  • John Coole- obviously you have never carried a baby in your womb for nearly a year and suffered the mental, emotional and physical agony that goes along with a pregnancy. I could never give a child up for adoption. It would take some serious strength to do that. My point is that it doesnt seem to be an option anymore for people who might be strong enough.

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  • I’m sick to death of this argument (discussion). No women will ever know what the right choice is until she has to consider or make that decision. And this thing about men not having any input because they don’t have a womb is utter crap!!

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  • @Annie Cleare & @John Everyman. Cheers for the light of reason from John. A foetus/embryo becomes a child with the hopes, dreams and aspirations of the mother. A collection of unconscious cells remains just that. The tragedy of miscarriage is the loss of those dreams – the child and the attendant hopes and fears are one. The decision to terminate is, in a way, a Schrodinger’s Cat scenario where a decision has to be made. Shame on those callous fanatics who marry the two separate issues for their own ends. We need to call these people out on their bogus epistemology and not allow them to hide their nasty, vindictive “pro-life” stance behind hypocritical sympathy.

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  • I appreciate the author sharing her story, we don’t hear enough in this debate from women who have direct experience of abortion. I guess the story resonates with me as it is quite similar to an experience of my own in my early 20′s. I was just in a new relationship & after an incident where we didn’t realise until too late that the condom had split I took the morning after pill & thought it would be ok but still got pregnant, so it does happen. The doctor told me the morning after pill can sometimes be unreliable if the condom failure happened to coincide with the most fertile time of the month which I guess it did in my case. Anyway I just wanted to share as some people don’t seem to believe how the author could get pregnant.

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  • The author was not bragging, she was telling her story, informing us if you will of her experience. There was no ‘child’ in this whole article, understand that. This country needs to wipe away it’s religious and backward thinking and I mean that across the board. It’s so sad that such a great little country is being ruined by religion and people not using basic common sense.

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  • While termination is freely available in the Stares it is only carried out for medical reasons on the Medicaid program. If you require one for “lifestyle” reasons (horrible turn of phrase) then you must obtain one privately. These terminations are not carried out with any form of scrutiny, or standard, and very often the termination can lead to a serious case of septicaemia or displaced organs, or even broken bones (I have worked there, and it wasn’t out of the ordinary to have a young girl dropped of anonymously at the ED with some serious life threatening situation arising, very often we had to treat them without knowing as much as their name). If termination is to be legalised in Ireland it must be made available publicly, funded publicly, on demand for everyone. That is the only workable, safe solution.
    As for the “pro-lifers”, this was not a baby or a child, or a human. It was a foetus. It wasn’t capable of life, and it was the choice of the mother. She made the choice that was right for her, and she had the courage to carry that out on her own. Before you any of you say that termination isn’t safe in the States, look to how it is carried out there – they are carried out by people who wouldn’t pass for butchers in an abattoir in many cases. And before any of you say this doesn’t happen in Ireland, think again. And the reason? As long as termination is not available, there will always be a need for backstreet butchers.

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  • I can solve this debate with one sentence. Mind your own business. It’s not your business if I decide to end a pregnancy, it’s not your business why I chose to do it, and guess what?! It’s no body’s business how I ended up pregnant in the first place! The problem with Ireland has always been people living in each others pockets. Move out of the dark ages and stop projecting your opinions onto people who do not need to hear them. Pro lifers would be better off protesting for a better life for the living, breathing, existing children in Ireland that are neglected and and overlooked by our overwhelmed health/social care service. Cretins the lot of you.

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  • Yeah, agree with above. Drunken mistake and medically required intervention do not equate. I wouldn’t include this in Savita debate.

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  • I think trying to link this case to the Savita Halappanavar case is unfortunate because there are no similarities between the two people involved.

    In Savita Halappanavar’s case the issues for discussion are whether delaying the removal of the unviable foetus contributed to her infection and death and therefore whether the hospital staff could have acted earlier even given the grey area that surrounds the law on this in Ireland and beyond that how we introduce legislation that gives clarity on this matter.
    In this lady’s case there was no health threat just a wish not to have a child which in effect is a call for abortion on demand which is something that does not command majority support in this country whether we like that fact or not.

    Just before the red thumb brigade start let me point out that I am in favour of introduction legislation on the X case and clarifying the law in regard to this matter so that women who find themselves in situations where their life or health is at risk can be sure of getting whatever treatment they need to protect themselves.

    I just feel publishing this story now and attempting to make a linkage between the two cases is a little unsavoury.

    Reply
  • I’m in my late 30′s and we were taught in sex education about pre ejaculation and the risk of pregnancy, every myth was dispelled for us in 3rd year or it could have been 5th year. My daughter learned about it in 1st year in SPHE so I don’t believe the “author” didn’t know about that. And I know plenty of women who have travelled for abortions, they have spoken about it with their friends, the stigma is not there between good friends. As for not telling her Mother, I can’t imagine many women would want to tell a parent, I wouldn’t discuss my sex life with my parents, let alone an abortion.

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    • it really depends when this is from because to be a single mother in the 1990s is a lot different than it is not my friend had a child alone in the 90s she was young and the commuinty called her names spat at her. the midwives treated her like she was disgusting person with no morals . things in 2012 are very different in that case.

      Reply
    • I went to a school that wasn’t run by nuns and we did learn about pre-ejaculation too. But none of my friends that went to public schools did

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    • andrea i went to a all girls convent school i was never really taught about conterceptives my parents did. i remember in home ece i had a nun for a teacher the sex ed section was skimmed through no mention of condoms pill ect . it was funny i remember thinking a nun is teaching me sex ed what the hell do they know about sex ed . i remember laughing at this with classmates .it was basically women have sex when there married and they have sex to have children im not joking at all .people only have sex when their married

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    • She mentioned that it happened a few months ago and that her peers are in their 20′s and 30′s so I would assume the same for her as she she also mentions the Savita incident. I just know that sex education is taught in primary school now (nothing graphic at that stage of course) and then much more in depth in secondary schools. I wouldn’t judge anyone who has an abortion, just don’t blame lack of knowledge about pre ejaculation for becoming pregnant in the first place. It was a drunken mistake on the part of the pair involved, not the church or the school teachers.

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    • I went to schools run by Loreto Convent.
      In primary school we had one day of formal sex ed. Our teacher was the famed Angela McNamara.
      She told us of the rhythm method so I don’t think pre ejaculate was ever mentioned as a concern.. Indeed, we were not to have sex before marriage so I guess it wouldn’t matter anyway.
      She also told us girls in hotter countries get their periods earlier and as we were in Ireland not to expect periods until we were 15 / 16. Imagine my shame thinking, “I got mine when I was 10, there’s something wrong with me”.

      My folks had already done the talk with me when I turned 10, so I understood how things worked, when I told my mother what the results of my sex ed class were she was incensed..

      Don’t remember there being ANY formalised sex ed in secondary school.. Nothing about relationships bar the fact you had to get married and have kids..
      So maybe she went to the same schools as me? We had a high rate of girls being asked not to return after junior cert because they had gotten pregnant..

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    • i wasnt having a go andrea i was just saying the sex ed i recived in school was laughable maybe you got better i didnt

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    • @Kellyanne, I know you weren’t having a go at me, no worries there. The author of this article is actually 25 (it says it at the very bottom). I just know that younger generations receive much better sex education in school than we did. I can’t tell what age you are from your picture, I’ve never been any good at that unfortunately. But a 25 year old had the internet, better teaching practices in school and even different tv programmes than my generation. Information from clinics and doctors is also very clear especially when you’re going on birth control (which she mentioned). Accidents happen, that was my point. But accept responsibility for your own mistakes rather than blame anyone and everyone else.

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  • The Pro-life brigade are out in force again it seems.You are one of the many reasons I have no tolerance for religion interfering with our legal system. It is up to middle Ireland to step off the fence and vote this political embarrassment out of existence. Anyone who is not able to keep their religious beliefs out of politics should not be in that profession.

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    • You can be pro life without being religious.

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    • Exactly like. The pro abortion people can’t get this into their heads do. It’s the spin they use all the time

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    • Don’t feed him Luke. He is more of a religious nut than any religious person I have ever met.

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    • anne nobody is pro abortion people are pro choice theres a major difference

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    • Anne & Luke sure there can be pro-life and not religious people, after all there is a gay Muslim society, so therefore Islam is entirely compatible with gay rights. James as for you calling someone who has been active in atheism/skepticism for many years, a religious nut, you do really seem to be part of the reason why I am.

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    • The only difference is a play on words. I’m against abortion so I’m anti- abortion, those for it are pro.

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    • i dont know anyone who is for abortion. i do know lots of people who are for choice. it may not be something they would choose for themselves but they have enough compassion and common sense to understand and agree that each individual woman has a right to control over her own body. if you’re pro life, good for you, dont ever have an abortion. but dont tell me i can’t have one. my uterus is none of your business.

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    • Roz 21/11/12 #

      It’s not pro abortion and don’t be so naive! It’s pro choice or in most cases pro contraception! Pro life/ anti abortion people always think it’s that we think the answer is abortion! Abortion is the last choice if u ask me but i would still like the option to do it if needed! I’m fully behind contraception and I think having the knowledge behind that and the maturity to openly talk about it are the two most important things a person entering into a sexual relationship can have. It’s not about being pro abortion or anti abortion and I think that’s where people lose sight.

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    • John F 21/11/12 #

      @vitaminb. What about the rights of the father of the child? Remember its not Uteri its UterUS

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    • i think its important for the guy to be involved in making the decision but at the end of the day its the woman who is pregnant,not the man so i feel that the final decision lies with her.

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    • “Pro-Life” is a complete misnomer. It was invented by self righteous bigots
      to make themselves feel good and use it as a weapon against anyone who disagrees
      with them, suggesting that they are in some way anti-life.

      There is only Pro-choice and Anti-Choice.

      .

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    • Murder is murder it just goes by different names…

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    • Murder is a legally defined crime. An abortion is not murder, it’s procuring an abortion.

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    • Cyril, making biased and smug assumptions about the religion of people who prefer life over death is bigoted, in my view.

      The real Middle Ireland prefers life over death and will continue to ensure that the most voiceless, vulnerable members of our society – the unborn – will be protected from those who would use their lives as a political tool, and a personal luxury.

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    • just to clarify…state schools are usually church associated. Sanctioned Sex education doesn’t mention contraception or pre-ejaculate. If your sex Ed mentioned those things or even disease then you’re pretty lucky

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  • @paul. That child wasn’t a child it was an embryo. To attach feelings to an embryo is misguided. What I am amazed about is that the author was pregnant at all after no full ejaculation and the use of the morning after pill. It seems a bit far fetched to me.

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  • While I feel for any trauma this lady went through I believe this article is wholly inappropriate and insensitive even to mention Savita’s case in the same breath.
    It is, granted, a personal story but focuses on lack of responsibility and give fuel to those who believe in abortion on demand. It does not add to the current debate regarding X case legislation.
    More responsible editing should have kept this story back for a later date.

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  • This country is moving backwards …at a pace that is frightening …

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  • Live and let live…..people do what they have to do….

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  • Nice human interest story but has little to do with the incompetency that went on in the recent case which was them dressed up as something that was done due to abortion laws . The investigation, if it is done properly, will show incompetence followed by excuses !

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  • Whatever happened to adoption? My birthmother had me when she was 18, it was obviously unplanned and in 1987. She wasnt forced into it, she just felt she wasnt ready to be a mother. So as a result she got to live her life, I got to live mine and my parents who couldnt have kids, were given a child. Everyones circumstances are different so im not gonna judge anyone for whatever decision they make, but when did the choice just become parenthood or termination?

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    • Because there is a stigma attached to adoption, if a woman goes around looking pregnant and then no baby at the end of it a lot of woman then start negatively talking about that woman and how less of a woman she is for giving up that baby, there’s also a stigma attached to being a Lone parent apparently every lone parent lives with their “partner” and has 5/6 holidays a year

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    • So a child is destroyed so people don’t have to answer a few awkward questions!

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    • Maria 21/11/12 #

      Ruth, I agree. It is a selfless and brave woman who suffers the pain of going through pregnancy and birth and gives up their child for adoption. They are true mothers in the sense that they put their children before themselves. They deserve our every respect.

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    • John F 21/11/12 #

      @bpdeasy. Thats it in a nutshell really, I suppose in the case of the author it’s easier to swallow a few pills rather than facing up to your responsibilities!

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    • I’m inclined to look at it like this.
      If a woman feels that she is strong enough to carry the pregnancy to term, the whole 9 months (maybe more), including all that goes with it AND give away the baby at the end of it.
      She deserves praise and she deserves support.

      Someone who chooses abortion is looking at that option too. The reason they opt out of adoption is really an individual decision, it could be her situation, it could be her health, it could be her psychological state – it could be anything, but the pregnancy itself is the issue, not the baby.
      It is the 9 months bit that she cannot face, and to be fair – that’s a scary prospect, especially when unplanned. Look at birth scenes, does that look like something you would choose to do unless you actually *wanted* the baby at the end?

      This is where the “what about adoption” argument falls. You are conveniently ignoring the pregnancy in favour of the end result.

      Reply
  • This is my first ever post on this site. Reading this article made my blood boil. The relevance of this to the tragic Savita H. case is almost zero. Savita went in to hospital because she was miscarrying a baby she and her husband truly wanted, and she tragically died. The author of this piece (assuming it’s non-fiction) got into an unfortunate situation by putting herself at risk. Blaming her lack of sex education is laughable. The writer is clearly intelligent and articulate, and I assume she has heard of Google. She says I think that she’s late 20′s or early 30′s, not 15. Presumably in the dozen or so years since she left school she heard of contraception. She got drunk and took a chance, thousands get away with it, unfortunately for her she didn’t. I’m not judging her for having an abortion, it’s not a situation I’d like to be in, but to come on here with this whingy horseshit and to dare mention a situation where a man has lost his whole world to serve whatever purposes she has, whether to seek sympathy or to promote a pro-choice/pro abortion/whatever agenda or for whatever reason, is to me reprehensible.
    It’s possible that the doctors in Galway did not realise that Savita’s life was in danger, in which case the law as it stands says they can’t terminate, even if she is miscarrying anyway. If they did know, they should have terminated. That’s my understanding. I’m not in a medical profession. The main questions that I can see are, why did they not realise that she had the infection until it was too late? And, once she had the infection, would the termination have saved her life? Whether or not abortion should be legalised is an entirely separate issue.

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  • So a drunken one night stand is now the stuff of opinion pieces in The Journal. It is both insulting and unreasonable to compare this womans irresponsible behaviour to what happened to Savita.

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  • I have seen child neglect many times as a social worker for over 20 years and there is no evidence that it has to do with being unwanted before birth ! It is more related to poverty and lack of parenting skills . In fact there is evidence from the USA that wanted children are more at risk of abuse as they have been planned and great expectations placed on them by unrealistic parents.

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  • I’m pro-choice but I don’t think this type of story does our cause any good. If anything it could turn people anti-choice as it reinforces the stereotype of the type of feckless woman who uses it as a contraceptive. Also skeptical of any story that claims science doesn’t work. Was this secretly written by a Jesus freak?

    Reply
    • Science doesn’t work? Are you referring to the morning after pill not preventing this womans pregnancy? The morning after pill only works by trying (I say tring because like all birth control it is not 100% effective) to prevent pregnancy, if the sperm has already attached to the egg when its taken it won’t undo this process.

      Reply
    • Agreed. Your ’cause’ is all that matters! At least you were hones about it!

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    • I suppose it shouldn’t surprise me that so many people on here with such strong opinions about other people’s lives actually haven’t a clue about reproduction and contraception. This is the problem with Ireland really……… So here goes…the morning after pill prevents ovulation. If ovulation has already happened then the pill is 0% effective.

      Reply
  • Coop 22/11/12 #

    If half the ‘pro life’ preachers here saw the neglect on children who are born (maybe not wanted) and not cared for .. maybe you would channel your energy into that. I think what happened to Savita is an absolute disgrace and we only blame ourselves for this situation. Why do we always wait for some tragedy to happen before we act? Savita not only should have been allowed to have an abortion but it should have been recommended to her by the doctor that was ‘caring’ for her.

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  • If anyone is misguided enough to be Proud of being born on this oasis of stupidity called Ireland, then, let me assure the rest of the world that I am embarrassed on your behalf. What a disgraceful kip we live in. This country is like a badly kept house with the front door open to the neighbours who are now coming in as never before and seeing the mess we call home.

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  • Wasnt too scared of having unprotected sex but was scared to have a baby. How about having some responsibility in life?

    If you get drunk in the car and on the road and kill someone there is no roll back process for it as far as I know.

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  • ‘Lucky to have got pregnant in a country where abortion is available’ – I think that phrase is very sad. Medical termination where someone is at risk no problem- but abortion as birth control- no thanks.

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  • roll on the red thumbs here, its not your to decision to have an abortion that gets me (i dont agree but each to there own) . but i just cant stand this excuse it was alcohol fuled! to drunk to use contreception but not too drunk for sex! im sorry i. just dont get it.

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    • You just don’t get it? Have you ever been drunk?

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    • You’ve never made a mistake? Ever? Mistakes happen, it’s part of life. The man who never made a mistake never made anything of their life.
      Provided termination is provided safely with relevant support structures in place (sex education, health awareness, family planning, counselling), there is no reason (as has been proven in countries where termination is freely available), to believe you should ever see a woman in a termination clinic more than once.
      Termination isn’t the go to contraceptive choice for women, you should give them credit, but it’s important that when things do go wrong there is a service that is safe, reliable and integrated with all the other services that are required with termination.

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    • Mark do drunk drivers get to say that to a judge. Just pointing out a major flaw in what you’re saying.

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    • Figures

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    • @ mark.. thats exactly my point, been drunk is no excuse.. if im drunk and knock someone down in my car is that ok because ‘i was drunk’ NO its not.

      and @ james, yes i have made mistakes, show me a person who has’nt, but ive never put myself in the postion where i face unwanted pregnancy from having drunken unsafe sex!!
      it was not a mistake it was stupidity, because not only did this girl not protect yourself from unplanned pregnancy , but left herself open to all sorts of std’s and infections.. im not judging her decision to have an abortion like i said above ‘each to there own’, its these girls puttin themselves in these postions i dont get!

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    • People!! Drink driving is illegal!! Drink f@#%ing, as far as I know, hasn’t been made illegal yet…

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  • Grateful? More propaganda. The USA has a Maternal Mortality Rate of 18 per 100,000 births. The rate is on the rise. In New York City where abortion is freely available it’s 27. If you are an African American woman you are twice as likely to die as a white woman. This contrasts with Ireland which has a MMR of 6. This is an extraordinary short sighted article that ignores the facts, facts that have been highlighted by human rights organizations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

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    • Ireland has been criticised numerous times by the European Court of Human Rights over our anti-abortion laws. Our anti-abortion stance also goes against WHO which states:
      “To avoid maternal deaths, it is also vital to prevent unwanted and too-early pregnancies. All women, including adolescents, need access to family planning, SAFE ABORTION SERVICES to the full extent of the law, and quality post-abortion care.”
      And one of the 4 causes of 80% maternal deaths is unsafe abortion.
      http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs348/en/index.html

      Maternal mortality is influenced by several factors and abortion is just one of many. Greece is pro choice and has a MMR of 2 in 100,000 (the best in the world). Ireland is 2nd with 3 in 100,000 and pro-choice countries Austria, Belgium, Sweden and Denmark follow with 5 in 100,000.
      The worst pro-choice country is South Africa with 380 per 100,000.
      The worst countries have the same ‘pro-life’ laws as Ireland and are Afghanistan (1,400), Chad (1,200), Somalia (1,200) and Guinea Bissau (1,000).
      http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/2011abortion/2011wallchart.pdf

      MMR does not take into account care and welfare of the woman, only if she dies. Banning abortion does not improve maternal mortality rate or eliminate abortions. It only serves to make them more difficult and dangerous to get. 4,149 Irish women travelled to the UK last year and yet we call this country ‘abortion free’. They are Irish citizens and deserve to be treated as such. What would happen if Irish women couldn’t travel to the UK and our health service actually had to care for them?

      Our MMR figure is misleading because we export women who have difficult pregnancies. Just a few examples: http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1116/world/miscarrying-women-told-to-aposread-between-linesapos-and-go-to-uk-214156.html

      Reply
    • Also our Irish ‘solution’ is only applicable to women who can afford to travel and are well enough. If you’re poor and/or too sick, tough luck.

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  • In all fairness , ya what happened to Savita was awful and in that case I do agree that a Medical Termination should be allowed at the parents request where the mother is at risk and the baby won’t make it ! However in the case of one night stands or an unplanned pregnancy , you made your bed now sleep in it , people should know the consequences in unprotected sex and deal with the consequences, there are plenty of options of contraception out there! An unborn child should NOT be killed because they were a mistake , or not planned, that is murder and completely wrong, that baby should have a chance to live there’s always the option of adoption if after 9months you still don’t want the baby, there are plenty of people out there who’d love the chance to be parents but can’t get pregnant, don’t be selfish and terminate a healthy baby, carry it for 9months and give it to a loving family ! Ya Medical Termination should be in Ireland, and what happened to Savita is a disgrace, but no baby should be terminated because they weren’t planned, grow up and deal with the consequences of your actions!

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    • How nice it must be to take the high moral ground and condemn others for making a mistake ! I hope you never make a mistake in life and expect compassion from people !

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    • No but like I don’t go sleeping around or have one night stands and I use contraception, and if I do ever fall pregnant accidentally I would never dream of terminating that baby, we all know the consequences of having sex, do you know the risks and chances of becoming pregnant, so if you really don’t want a baby then think before you sleep around or have sex, or then put up with it for 9months and put that baby up for adoption and give it to someone who would love to be a parent! That child should not suffer because of your mistake! End of !!

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    • Most women who have abortions are in committed relationships with children. Plenty of people don’t sleep around but just cannot bring another child into their home.

      I love my partner more than anything, but we are struggling to pay rent and barely putting money down for a house deposit. Should we forego sex for five years until we can afford a child?

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    • “How nice it must be to take the high moral ground and condemn others for making a mistake !”

      If I’m ever on trial for involuntary manslaughter I’ll be sure to wheel out that gem

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  • bull shite story !!!!

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  • jn 21/11/12 #

    I’m pro life, not religious, parents did not have ‘ the talk’ with me, learned a bit in school( basic condoms stuff) had plenty sex drunk or not ( not bragging ) never was stupid enough to get pregnant and blame a pharmacy or the system! Iv two kids now, I know how wonderful it is to create life. I know in some cases I’d say a person is no way capable to have a baby, but adoption is better than death! Iv read articles where women have terminations because the sex of the baby is not what they wanted… It creaps me out!!!!!

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  • Meh 21/11/12 #

    Openly irresponsible anonymous people don’t add to the pro-choice argument. Including this story to somehow equate with Savita’s is just as irresponsible and is telling of the self obsessed mindset of some(a lot) of young women these days. It reads like “My irresponsible life decisions are more important than the basic value of life”.

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  • So you had unprotected sex then fell pregnant and because the pregnancy was inconvenient to you, you resolved to do away with the child.

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  • Sorry…..the fact that you don’t sign off on this article means that this article cannot be taken seriously……………

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    • “”I would truly love to be able to submit this piece with my name attached. However, as a young woman in modern Ireland, I feel it’s not possible due to the stigma and negativity attached to the subject matter”

      - these very concerns are clearly justified given some of the comments one would think???

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  • Written by Anonymous. Says a lot. File under ‘ Fiction ‘.

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  • Alcohol fuelled, claimed ignorance on how one can be impregnated, easy solution of murdering a defenceless child. And she wonders why there is a stigma attached….

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  • Still this myth about Savita ? She died from septicemia not lack of an abortion

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  • Why is it’s a woman’s ‘right’ to have a choice to terminate a pregnancy when the unborn child does not have a right to life? If this is to be treated as an issue of human rights then how do we prioritise one above another? The mothers choice was to have sex in the first place

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    • because the mother is a human and the embryo is not i think its quite obvious that the mothers human rights are more important.

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    • Yeah Amy good solution everybody should stop having sex be they single or married unless it’s for the direct purpose of conceiving.

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    • vitaminb, I think you’ll find embryos and foetuses are also human.

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    • Vitaminb what is the embryo if not human? Is it a dog or a dolphin? That is using words to justify your position and reduce your guilt. Call abortion like it is at least. Destroying a baby.

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    • its an embryo. quite simple. and i have no guilt.

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    • If it’s not human, why does it have a heartbeat??

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    • You’re right – how do you prioritise one right over the other? Someone who is in need of an organ or blood transfusion can not legally compell any other living, or dead, human being to free use of their blood or organs; even if the life, as distinct from the health of the would be donor is in all probability not at risk. In this case the person in need’s right to life is second to the person with blood / working organ’s right to bodily integrity; yet an unborn child gets that right than no one else can have

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    • An embryo is a human life form. It is not fully formed, but it is a human life form nonetheless. Kerry, please do not use my words as a stepladder up to your high horse, in no way did I say that everybody should stop having sex, ever. All I said was that it was the mothers choice to have sex in the first place, as is clearly stated in the article. The primary biological function of sex is for the continuation of the human race, therefore making the choice to have sex is an acknowledgment of the possibility of pregnancy. The responsibility of a resulting pregnancy falls on both the mother and father; upon conception there are three entities involved, not just one, not just the mother. This woman is not a victim, she decided death was the only option in dealing with the consequences of her actions.

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    • Sally, I don’t see needing a blood transfusion as equal to an unborn child being dependent upon their mother for life. I understand your analogy, but they are not the same situations whatsoever.

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    • If a person needs a blood transfusion (or organ) to survive, they cannot compell anyone to donate. Yes people choose to donate blood, and even organs (where it is practical) but no one has been forced; even when someone has died, organ donation is on an opt-in basis rather than opt out, meaning a person’s right to their organ’s carries through to death. When someone is pregnant, the foetus utilises the mother’s organs. In the very early stages it cannot possibly survive without the mother, after around 24 weeks it is viable it *could* survive (viability getting stronger with every passing week).
      The question was in relation to conflicting human rights; right to life versus bodily integrity, with the suggestion that the right to life is stronger. Someone in the need of an organ should have an equal right to life, but yet is not able to compromise anyone bodily integrity (somebody choosing to donate an organ is different), even of someone who is dead. But the argument seems to be that a foetus in need of its mother’s body and organ’s should be given more right than the mother’s right to bodily integrity – I right to life that is not parallelled anywhere else that I can think of.

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    • Cyril has created a new state of being, viz. ‘practically dead.’

      Is that half dead or three-quarters dead or virtually dead?

      Or half alive, threequarters alive or virtually alive?

      What balderdash.

      What next: ‘quite dead,’ very much dead,’ ‘barely dead’ – or the same for ‘alive,’ as the case may be?

      I’d hate to have Cyril pronouncing my death! Or my life! Or acting as my undertaker!!

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  • You don’t have to kill the baby, the adoption option.is always there.
    A few measly weeks of inconvenience.

    A childless couple get a family.
    A baby gets a chance to experience life .

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    • Again, see above. As I stated when this lady had an abortion what was inside her womb was not a person.

      As for the childless couples, there are plenty of children available for adoption in orphanages all over the world. This girl does not owe a child to anyone.

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    • Do you really think John that life is that black and white and the mother of the child experiences no emotion ? Do you think it’s that easy to carry and nurture a child for 9 months and then hand it over to someone else like an unwanted package ? This girl did what she thought was right in her circumstances and no one has the right to condemn her!

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    • @Siofra . If you use contraception then you must know that no kind is 100 percent safe so I hope you do not have a accident but you might not be quick to judge others then !
      Have a bit of compassion for the rest of the world who acknowledge that people make mistakes !!!!
      And there is absolutely no suggestion this girl sleeps around!!!

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    • Susie 22/11/12 #

      If you think pregnancy is just a “few measly weeks of inconvenience” you have obviously never been pregnant.

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  • Annie you are also incorrect when you say late term abortions are carried out for correctable disabilities. Pro-life groups have misrepresented statistics to give this impression. Statistics on abortion for example record how many abortions involved cleft palate. These babies were not aborted due to their cleft palates – that would not be allowed. They were aborted due to having genetic abnormalities that meant they wouldn’t survive outside the womb. One of the symptoms of this genetic abnormality may have been cleft palate. The same baby would be counted under every category of disability that the baby possessed. So it’s not 6 babies with minor disabilities….it’s one baby with 6 disabilities that prevent the baby from surviving outside the womb.

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  • I wonder if that child was shitless as it was being aborted? Horrible story, don’t know why anyone would brag about that. I can understand someone needing an abortion for medical reasons. But because someone had a crush and got pregnant. I really don’t think that argument is going to help abortion into Ireland. I’m not pro-life. But my heart does go out to that poor child. The reason
    why the mother was craving red meat/ well the child was craving was for the iron to prepare its development for its exciting new life. Well I suppose it’s all about choice.

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    • What ‘child’???

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    • I agree with abortion, but you’re right – not something I’d brag about..

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    • Here we go again with the anti-choice crowd’s basic lack of understanding when it comes to human biology. This lady had an abortion during the first trimester. At that time what is inside the womb is not a person, it is a collection of cells which is incapable of independent existence, cognitive thought or even the perception of pain.

      Just because you believe a child pops into existence at the moment of conception does not make it true. Many people once believed the earth was flat and they were as wrong then as you are now.

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    • So someone has a miscarriage in first trimester and they v upset and crying telling people ” Iv lost a bunch of cells”? I don’t think so. They say they have lost a baby

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    • Some people would love the usa system here, abortion on demand up to birth in some states. but shur as John said “it’s only a bunch of cells”!!

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    • Annie people are free to call anything whatever they want to call it. My point is simply doing so does not mean that what you are referring to actually is what you called it. The same applies to belief. You may say a zygote is a person, you may even believe it. BUT simply saying and believing that does not make it true. What is so hard to understand about this?

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    • I’m pro choice, but I can’t say looking at scans and these scan videos of a friends pregnacy at nearly 10 weeks hasn’t made me think…

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    • John there’s no point using logic and reason to argue with someone who’s pro-life. If they understood logic and reason they wouldn’t be pro-life in the first place! Their cretinous bigotry knows no bounds

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    • John what I don’t understand is if it’s not a child then why is an abortion necessary? What harm could a “bunch of cells” cause to this woman?

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    • @ Annie no state in America allows abortion up until birth..

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    • John Everyman, you’re right. If you call something a foetus, it doesn’t change what it is. It’s just the latin word for offspring, doesn’t make it any less of a human.

      Cian: The bunch of cells makes you look fat and people judge you, so obviously an abortion is necessary.

      BTW, has anyone heard of this thing new thing called adoption?

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    • Who is bragging ? What is it about the word Abortion that takes common sense out of every argument ? Read the article! No way is this girl bragging about her experience ! She is merely telling her story ! She made a mistake but took the necessary steps to correct it but the steps failed and she felt compelled to have a termination. It’s very easy to sit back and judge other people! No wonder she decided to remain anonymous or no doubt you would have her tarred and feathered for making a mistake ! . You are so quick to

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    • Sorry did not finish my point !
      You are all quick to judge this girl for her choice but what about the part of the bible that says ‘ judge not and you will not be judged’!

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    • You are right, you people are not pro-life, you are just anti-women!

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    • Mjhint 21/11/12 #

      Bragging? This is a woman telling of her experience. Again its all emotional bs. Talking about murdering a baby. Its time we grow up.Its like a conversation between 2 13 year olds. Just going around in circles about this. I am not pro abortion & if a member of my family wanted to have one I would discuss it with them & argue from that point. However if they decided they wanted or if they needed one I would prefer that the choice was there for them. If you think abortion is murdering a baby dont have an abortion but I dont hold that view & feel that having a choice is necessary.

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    • Maria 21/11/12 #

      So I am a woman who is anti-women?

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    • Annie 22/11/12 #

      And you think you have more logic advocating for killing unborn children? Not sure about everyone but when I was pregnant, doctors ( imagine that) called the baby a baby!! So not only a pro lifer but a medical professional calling what was inside me a baby!There’s a heart beat but you think it’s illogical to call it a baby?

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    • Annie 22/11/12 #

      Yes it does! Right up to birth under roe v wade. Don’t have to even go to usa. Uk allows up to birth if child has a disability

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    • Oh Annie why don’t you listen? I’m really getting tired of repeating the same established facts all over again. This girl had a termination during the first trimester. Now here are the three key reasons why what was in her womb at that time was not a person:

      1: it was not capable of independent existence outside of the womb.

      2: It didn’t have the capacity for cognitive thought.

      3: It’s nervous system could not register external stimuli such as pain.

      As I said, feel free to believe what you want. Believe an embryo is exactly the same as a child in a pram, believe magic happens at conception and a person sparks into existence at that very moment, believe that every sperm deserves a name if you like. Simply believing those things doesn’t make you any less wrong.

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    • Annie, the more you post, the more illiterate you seem. Read Roe v Wade – it establishes a right to abortion under the constitutional protection of privacy FOR THE FIRST TRIMESTER. Trying actually reading for yourself rather than embarrassing yourself by repeating talking points.

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    • Glen 23/11/12 #

      Seems there is a lot of argument about termination of ‘babies’ and all the negative images that entails, such as wholly developed babies resembling cabbage patch dolls being torn limb from limb as they are taken prematurely from the womb. Yes, that’s not a very pleasant image. But at 6 weeks the foetus resembles a tadpole and is about the size of a lentil or baked bean. It is not viable outside the womb. Its organs are forming. It has no limbs. It has the potential to become a child – but it is not a child yet.

      Most clinically apparent spontaneous abortions (two thirds to three-quarters in various studies) occur during the first trimester. Regardless the act of termination is still very emotional, and circumstances are individual for each woman. So let them decide.

      John Everyman is correct.

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  • Having Reproductive sexual intercourse is a deceleration of consent to be parents and all the responsibility that comes with that. Trying to turn medical staff into murderers to deal with this issue is not fair.

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  • They are so nice in New York as they don’t judge in the way they do in Ireland! They are so nice that they don’t give a damn about killing the baby .
    That is the way it should be . Just think of the woman : don’t give a damn about the child ! Modern day morality .

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  • Notice how the men get cranky and dismissive when women don’t agree with them!!

    Welll done Annie. Nick B is rattled – and how dare he call anyone illiterate? Pompous or what?

    When you have the upper-hand, expect the small-minded to resort to personal abuse!
    A
    nd these great men say they are all for women’s choice. God help us! Women better agree with them!

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  • Annie 23/11/12 #

    Your actually full of it and either naive or pretending to be. America has abortion on demand , end of. It may have started strictly not so anymore, far from it. in the uk after 24 weeks “disability” of baby can be a reason, now how is that a risk to the life of the mother? Could be a small correctable disability but will fit the criteria.
    You like to always portray that people only have abortions if medically needed to save their life, you know that’s far from the truth in uk & usa. I genuinely do not care less what you think of me to be honest, you verbally attack anyone who disagrees with you & any man that dares gets it worse, they have no opinion right? I did not lie once in anything I have said so I’d appreciate you not accusing me of it & I’d appreciate you not replying to me anymore. I’m entitled to post facts on here just a you seem to think your entitled to personally verbally abuse people you don’t know. So we will have to agree to disagree

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    • If you think it’s personally abusive, report it, rather than getting upset because you’re called out on being distruthful. America has abortion “on demand” for the first trimester (Roe v Wade was only concerned with the first trimester, as anyone who has read it knows). Abortion for the mother’s health is available throughout the pregnancy, as most people would agree with. As you recall, Savita wasn”t in her first trimester: should she have been denied a medically necessary abortion?

      If you don’t want to be called out on your dishonesty, stop misrepresenting a court judgement, not ask people to treat you with kid gloves.

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  • Seems to me this girl has written a good argument against legalising abortion on demand in Ireland. Too embarrassed to enter the ‘glass box’ in the pharmacy, which could be for any reason, how would she feel facing staff in a local abortion clinic if such a thing were to exist? Small place…people talk.
    Also, to blame a lack of sex ed for hopping into bed with a guy and not using protection, in 2012 ?? FFS.

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  • Annie 23/11/12 #

    No she should have gotten treated for her miscarriage. I’d rather wait for result of report before making any assumptions after that. No ur personal comments are not worth reporting, Iv always learned to fight my own battles. Abortion takes place a lot in usa when baby is viable, you can say otherwise but your wrong. and in uk for minor disabilities. That is not for the health of the mother

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    • It takes place rarely for the health of the mother – as you would know if you actually read the statistics. Try to educate yourself, rather than insisting on untruths which fit your world view.

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  • Annie 22/11/12 #

    After “viability” of the unborn child, an individual state can, if it chooses
    to do so, enact laws to protect the unborn child but abortion must be allowed if the life or “health” of the mother is at stake. The Supreme Court defined “health” as “the medical judgment that may be exercised in light of all factors – physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age –relevant to the well-being of the patient. All these factors may relate to health.”
    This allows abortion up until birth. I am far from illiterate, your a condescending twisted woman. you actually are so proud of yourself, I can imagine someone like you perfectly fine with even sex selection abortions

    Reply
    • Annie 22/11/12 #

      Neither. I’m not as ignorant as you like to portray me as or illiterate as you decided to call me earlier. In uk it’s up to 24 weeks & longer If child has a disability. Want to tell me I’m wrong there too? In usa it can be done up to birth for certain reasons like I said even ” Health” of mother. Before that no reason need be given.
      what a great person you are though to personally abuse people you don’t know because you can’t accept your not always right.

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    • Roe v Wade establishes a right to privacy in the first trimester of pregnancy – there is absolutely no right under it for an abortion until birth. If you think that, you clearly haven’t read it. And yes, health of the woman is the only reason for late term abortions in the US – for obvious reasons, as many health issues only arise in the later stages of pregnancy. Very few people would disagree women should be able to access medically necessary abortions.

      Annie, you thought Iraq had Sharia law (heh – nothing Americans love better when they’re writing a constitution than Sharia law!), you say insulting things to women who have ended pregnancies and you’re saying erroneous things about a US court case. I could care less about you as a person, I just wish you’d stop saying misleading things. Clearly you’re not wrong, you actually try to mislead people on the facts, which is disgusting.

      Reply

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