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Dublin: 12 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

Column: Athens is burning – so why are Ireland’s streets still quiet?

We haven’t rebelled at cut after cut, writes Fergal Browne. So are Irish people really such pushovers, or are there more complex factors at work?

Fergal Browne

The streets of Athens have been set alight in recent days as thousands of protesters clashed violently with police over controversial austerity measures. Yet as cut after cut is announced in Ireland, the streets are still quiet.

Here Fergal Browne asks whether we’re really taking this all lying down – or whether there are more complex factors at work.

AS 2011 WHITTLED by, the Economist described the austerity measures here in Ireland as having “been accepted by Irish people with surprising stoicism”. In a year when Time magazine proclaimed The Protester the person of the year, and with Ireland’s history of rebellion, as well as the prevalent and pervasive hardship, it might have been expected Ireland would have been caught up in the wave of protest. But it wasn’t.

While protesting took place from Mullingar over the army barracks to the continuing Occupy Dame Street, little ignited the general public to protest in the tens of thousands in 2011, except the students. This in spite of most preceding years producing at least one demonstration with participation over 50,000.

In the face of austerity, public outrage has surfaced, forcing Government climbdowns on several occasions. Public anger at the budgetary announcement of cutting disability benefit to disabled people under the age of 25 resulted in a climbdown within 24 hours of the announcement. The protest against medical card means testing for old-age pensioners in 2008, which the Fianna Fáil-led government feared would lead to a backbench revolt, resulted in backtracking and attempted face-saving by the government. This would suggest large and emotive protest will not result in a ‘revolution’ – but those who protest loudest and strongest will draw more attention and achieve success.

Even this year’s student protest seems to have a similar effect. The large protest focused attention on Minister for Education, Ruairí Quinn’s reneged-on pre-election promise not to increase fees. Fees were increased, but the €250 increase was considered modest, especially in a department where a large section of the budget has to remain untouched due to the Croke Park agreement.

Those who could make themselves heard are the country’s workers. With mortgages in arrears running at 10.4 per cent – an almost two per cent increase since July 2011 – and domestic demand down by 24.9 per cent in the last four years, the working population on average incomes could easily be christened with the British ‘squeezed middle’ moniker.

The large scale demonstrations of previous years were organised by the trade union movement, headed by the trade union federation – the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU). So why none in 2011?

‘People considered it a sort of national cleansing’

“Back in 2010, a lot of the anger was focused at Fianna Fáil. So, after the election, there was a honeymoon period. People considered it a sort of national cleansing. Look at the protests in 2011. They were very badly attended. But the anger is rising again”, says spokesperson for the ICTU, Macdara Doyle. “People have to remember that the demonstrations between 2008-10 were the biggest demonstrations in 30 or 40 years in this country.”

Many have been critical of the unions. TDs from the United Left Alliance have called on the leaders of the trade unions “to step aside and make way for a fighting leadership”.

Meanwhile, general scepticism around the leaders ofthe trade union movement, like David Begg, the general secretary of the ICTU and Jack O’Connor, head of SIPTU, exists. They are both people whom the Occupy movement would surely call part of the ‘one per cent’. During the boom, Begg served on the board of the Central Bank, while O’Connor is an active Labour Party member. Not exactly ideal to lead protests against the banks and a coalition government involving the Labour Party.

The wages of the trade union leaders has also raised the ire of workers, with both earning a basic salary of around €120,000 per year. Whether they are entitled to such a salary is a separate debate, but it does seem clear workers have been disillusioned by the trade union leadership, who earn salaries similar to that of politicians and bankers.

This frustration has manifested itself at the demonstrations. At the ICTU march in November 2010, attended by 50,000-100,000 people (estimates vary), David Begg’s speech was widely booed by those in attendance, while Irish Times journalist Fintan O’Toole’s speech was broadly well received.

Union membership is currently at 34 per cent of the working population, of which 45 per cent are in the public sector. A sector which has been protected, to a certain extent, from cuts as a result of the Croke Park agreement.

“The bulk of protests that have taken place in Greece have been by public sector workers. You can be guaranteed that if Greece had something like the Croke Park agreement, it would immediately diffuse a lot of these protests there”, says Doyle.

‘We have no choice but to cede control’

In Spain, meanwhile, the drivers of the Los Indignados (The Indignant) were the young unemployed – in Spain youth unemployment runs at 45 per cent, compared to Ireland’s 24 per cent. The protests in the summer brought several million people out across Spanish cities last summer. The protests in the Arab world were also led by a young population who, as a part of a burgeoning middle-class, were sick of dictators meddling corruptly in their daily lives.

This suggests Ireland’s youth unemployment has not (yet) reached a tipping point to result in demonstrative anger on a mass scale. Also, social commentators have argued the high level of youth emigration – total emigration last year was 75,000, of which 20 per cent were between 18 and 24 years-old – has stymied mass protest from developing as it has in Spain. There, youth emigration is hard to verify, but the bulk of emigrants are to other EU countries which reported more thab 100,000 Spaniards signing into consulates around Europe in 2011.

It seems language barriers – 56 per cent of Spaniards only speak Spanish – hinders a majority of people from moving to economically-sound English-speaking countries like Canada and Australia. Also, Spaniards live with their parents until an average age of 30. Both factors seem to have prevented youth emigration on the scale seen in Ireland.

The reasons for a lack of appetite for protest don’t just fall into the categories of trade unionism and youth emigration. The media is blamed for being too conservative; Ireland is a conservative society; the belief protesting doesn’t result in change; and Irish people are passive, bordering on lazy – these are some negative analogies. The more benign say we are more rational than our Mediterranean neighbours, recognise that “we all partied” and the bind we are in as a result of our annual deficit and being locked out of the international markets. Therefore, we have no choice but to cede control to international institutions.

Of course stoicism and passivity could still become premature descriptions of the Irish reaction to the economic crisis. With talk of a second bailout, several more years of austerity and talk of a lost generation, before even mentioning a potential collapse of the euro, a lot more pain is on the way before we come out the other side. Only time will tell whether a tipping point will come.

Fergal Browne is a graduate of journalism in DIT. He writes at everythingiskaputt.wordpress.com.

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Comments (264 Comments)

  • We haven’t the money to buy any matches!

    Reply
  • I prefer the Ghandi method, peaceful non-cooperation. Don’t pay the new taxes, clog up the courts. That’s more our style.

    Reply
  • I think you hit the nail on the head with emigration. There’s very little incentive for people to stay and fight for change when you can hop on a plane and find a future elsewhere. It’s the historic Irish solution – ship our troubles elsewhere!

    That said, torching Grafton St isn’t going to promote any positive change. There are better ways to engage.

    Reply
  • Michael.M You are spot on. Irish people do what they got to do to survive. I think it’s imprinted on our DNA. I do believe that if we are pushed too far there well could be a backlash. I couldn’t see the Irish burning there own country. Something we worked so hard to build over the last 100 yrs. It is heartbreaking to see so much progress being financially dismantled so quickly. Honestly it sickens me!!!

    Reply
  • Emigration definately is the release valve here. And most folks I talk to are planning their escape plans.It is important to have a plan B. Half my family have already emigrated. I want to stay and fight though. Catch 22. Stay here and face hardship. Or leave and pull the plug on the negativity.

    Reply
  • I think it’s pretty pointless to burn your own country but something at some point will kick off trouble. I’m just surprised it hasn’t happened yet.

    Reply
  • Sure, Greece don’t have Liveline. We’d be on the streets too if we couldn’t talk to Joe…

    Reply
  • The government’s policy of divide and conquer (public sector vs. private sector, employed vs. unemployed etc.) has worked well. We’re too busy beating each other up to consider rioting….

    Reply
    • Agree with you totally Mike Sandover, too busy beating each other up to even notice what the government are up too. Sure look at the day they handed over the money to bondholders, Ivor Callely was arrested just to distract us all.

      Reply
  • Athens is burning..cinemas shops and other places of employment..wheres the point in.that. thankfully this has not reached our shores!

    Reply
  • Attacking your own country is stupid.

    Reply
  • The question is has it changed Greeces position one whit? I think not…protest marches are ok..burning and sacking your own country is anarchy…no place for it.

    Reply
    • They got a massive write down on their debt.

      Reply
    • there’s only one place they need to burn.

      Reply
    • The Greeks have a history of rioting and extreme behaviour. The irony is some of this was when previous governments tried to cut back, rain in spending and cut out tax evasion.

      Reply
    • bang on derek i see tony not to happy with that answer mr goody to shoes

      Reply
    • Irrespective about how savvy the Greeks may or may not be, there is no justification in reckless financial institutions being let bleed the country dry for their own gain. Follow the rules of capitalism, There is most definitely a two tier system in Europe, one for those who have to stick to the rules and one for those who don’t.

      Reply
    • How exactly are “reckless financial institutions being let bleed the country dry for their own gain”? The holders of Greek debt have taken huge losses. The Greeks were very happy to blow this money, while dodging their taxes in huge numbers. The Greek government estimates 40-45 billion euro in tax evasion currently. Only 5000 people ish are earning over 100k euro a year in a country of 12 million according to their tax paperwork – That is fucking shocking evasion. They have set price lists for getting things done illegally. There is absolutely no doubt the Greeks did this to themselves.

      Reply
    • @paul – are you seriously suggesting that Ireland stuck to the rules?? McCreevy’s de-regulation of the financial services sector meant that Ireland was widely viewed as the ‘wild west of Europe’ where anything goes, and financial institutions (both home grown and foreign owned) could get away with things that wouldn’t be tolerated in any other country. The EU repeatedly warned McCreevy and Ahern of the dangerous nature of their policies and the likely consequences but these warnings went unheeded – worse again McCreevy seemed to take a perverse pleasure in gloating over the rest of the EU as he stuck two fingers up at them! Who’s laughing now?

      Reply
    • @Gary, all well and good Gary, but why won’t the EU let them fail? Why did our government insist on guaranteeing that ridiculous debt? Why all this pressure for unsecured bonds?
      I

      Reply
    • Paul. It’s obvious that letting them fail would hurt the whole EU. They should have to pay at least some of this debt, they borrowed it after all. It’s getting to the point where it’s cheaper to let them go. I have no idea why our government guaranteed all our bank debt. I’d ask Lenihan but obviously he’s dead so I can’t. My guess is that we elected a bunch of incompetents and then paid the price for it. We agree to pay the bondholders as part of our troika bailout. See be careful who you vote for above.

      Reply
  • Wittiest reason I’ve heard why there are no riots here: the Irish know a hangover when they see one!

    Reply
  • There are several reasons why we are not rioting. The relatively recent proof, that we, as a population had been hoodwinked, to put it mildly, by an organisation that purported to be our moral guardians, has left us collectively in a state of shock. Typically, people and societies, who escape from these false doctrines, tend to over compensate from their ordeals by overly indulging in escaping from the realisation of what has actually happened. Bearing in mind the previous occupation of this land, from the Vikings to others, is it any wonder that we are wondering who we can trust. We have been lied to morally, politically, theologically and financially for so many years, that we are left confused, as to know who to trust and what to do. The latest treasonous act that the ordinary person has had to endure, is the abuse of the trust that we entrusted to the people that we employed to right this wrong.

    Reply
  • We’re too busy trying to survive!

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  • riots are something i hope never has to happen but sadly i think the only way politicians will do whats right for the people is when they become afraid to do wrong by the people!

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  • We are a very conservative society. If people were to see burning barricades on the streets they would ask ‘how will get the children to school?, ‘how will I get to Mass?’, or more importantly ‘how am I going to get to the pub with all this going on?’.

    Reply
  • The answer to this is a multiple one.
    The Irish have learned from their past to get by.
    They had to adopt a survivor mentality.
    I don’t think that we would be as organised as for instace the greeks are in protesting but we have our own methods of dealing with crisis situations.
    I can imagine that as a result the black market is flourishing in Ireland.
    Everything from smuggled cigarettes to nixers in the building trade and laundered diesel etc.
    But I have no doubt that the Irish would also as a last resort turn to protests. But in the meantime we apply our own means of survival.
    And as long as this gets us by…stick with that.

    Reply
  • I don’t believe we would see voilance the same way as in Greece here untill the majority of people find it hard to eat and dress.
    Price of fuel goes up,increase in laundered stuff or people just drive less/don’t use the heating as much
    Car tax goes up, less keep ther tax up to date
    Bin charge increase, roadside dumping/using public bins/using other peoples bins or bringing it to work.
    I think it’s the people who earn 20-30k a year that are the worst off and 30-40k if u have a mortgage.
    I’m 31 single and live with my mother 70. I earn 21k a year net and only for she still works I doubt I could keep the house. Iv no medical card neather dose she and no help as we both earn what was decent money 5 years ago but is just barely geting us bye now

    Reply
  • I think that one of the reasons there are no protests is the same reason Irish emigrants do well, individualism. We do not tend to think of ourselves as a society but rather as individuals. When we have a problem we tend to look for an individual to solve it, one of the reasons for the rise of gombeen politics through the political clinic system.
    It could also be why we prefer to write in places like the journal rather than join organisations and protest. As individualists we have a tendency to distrust organisations. When legislation comes out we tend not to think of how it will shape or impact on Irish society but rather what effect it will have on me. In many ways our thinking is more American than european.

    Reply
    • An excellent point, but I think for me that logic has been built on years of political deception, look our political history it’s rife with abuses of power and mass deception.

      Reply
    • We do not tend to think of ourselves as a society but rather as individuals”
      Mark Andrew Salmon
      Excellent comment. May I go one step further and say that as individuals we are afraid
      of what we might lose if we ”protest ” but we do not look at the bigger picture and see the
      breakdown in our society re violence / murders, the illegal use of drugs, binge drinking, robberies
      and the feeling of not wanting to get or be involved.
      If we could all stand together an help each other ,I believe we would see a huge change in how w deal with things and how we effect change in our society.
      I do not want to look back in 2 / 5 or even 10 years and regret that I didn’t do more

      Reply
    • not all Irish emigrants do well

      I remember some very broken Irish people in london in the 1980s who had been there decades, very broken, lonely sad people.

      Reply
    • these people are forgotten

      Reply
  • Its a combination fear, dole dependence, a unionised control structure, gombeenism, pure ignorance, lazyness, shyness and again, pure fear.
    90 years ago, they left their family, their home, their community to pick up a rifle and risk their life to ensure that their future generations would not suffer oppression and be able to live in a country ruled, owned and ran by their own people.

    Today, we dont have the support of the Gardai or Army. We rely on the government to dish out the dole each week or we go homeless and hungry. We have heads of state who are puppets to foreign money lenders. We have an underclass who were brought up on handouts who dont work nor care for the future.
    We have a middle class who are debt ridden, scared senseless to say boo incase they loose even more than they have done.
    We have the upperclass who wont be touched.
    We have a state funded broadcaster whos primary role is to keep us ignorant.
    We have state education and the church who teach and preach that we are at fault and as good christians, we must suffer for “our mistakes”.

    Reply
  • Great article… Great question too… I think the majority of people believe protesting won’t achieve anything!!!!

    I’m not up for riots but surely we can let then know we’re still alive, breathing and not at all happy…. Eh!!!!

    Reply
  • People seem to forget who we are run by now, IMF and ECB, two private banks that are fully connected to the banks that brought us down in the first place. From the start of civilisation, from Jesus to Thomas Jefferson to JFK we were warned never to let the banks take control but here we are sitting idly by, hoping things go aok while worldwide our rights and liberty are being quickly eroded. Nothing to see, keep on moving.

    Reply
  • Although through an oppression of a different kind, it took leaders like Collins to stoke fire in the bellies of the irish masses. We are a leaderless nation following a bunch of Morans who sheepishly follow a foreign dictate for party and personal gain. Let all “classes” revolt and show these fools we have had enough!!!

    Reply
  • If strikes were to happen they would be led by the public service. Their unions could bring 100,000 onto the streets within days. The private sector unions probably aren’t as organised. The public sector is protected to some extent by Croke Park and people are happy enough once they can pay the mortgage, eat and perhaps have a holiday abroad once a year. However, if the public service takes further cuts and the above can’t be done people will very quickly change their mind about protesting. People have a lot of power. The schools could be closed overnight. Hospitals could be closed if nurses decided to strike. That’s a lot of power to have. Since the gov introduced these indirect taxes people also have a lot of power. People on block could refuse to pay their motor tax, household charge and septic tank charges. However, a lot of people are still relatively well off in the country. Houses only became excessively expensive in the period 2000 – 2008, so most people don’t have a mortgage from that period. For all the tax increases and cuts the country has also become cheaper – cheap beers are available in pubs and good deals available on food. Therefore many people are not in a bad position.
    The young people have been screwed. Dole cut in half. Many of the young people are emigrating/going abroad for yr or two.
    It will take a few cuts yet before we see any serious strike.

    Reply
    • lol, good one Sean. “holier-than-thou armchair anarchists”. you obviously know what you’re talking about.

      Reply
    • sorry, that comment should be on the post below.
      I agree with your points Tigerisinthezoo, the trouble with that is the country will have been stripped of so many billions by then that I think there will be very little hope of rebuilding in any meaningful way in our lifetimes.

      Reply
  • The Greeks are in a very different situation to the Irish. While both countries have crippled economies, Ireland had and still has skilled workers and established industries ( I.T. as just one example ). These industries have been damaged by the knock-on effect of the crisis, but internally are not overly unsound. Greece is not in the same position. When it comes down to it, the Greeks are rioting because they’ve nothing left to lose. It must be hard for their population to imagine how a default would hurt them further. Ireland does have a lot to lose, even now. I’m not saying the Irish should lie back and suck it up, but we still have to play smart, if not play nice.

    Reply
    • What ? Play fair? play nice? and if we are all good little children we might get an Icecream…FFS>
      What about the people stuck with uninhabitable homes in Priory Hall…. Who is playing fair with them.?? Ah its a case of I’m alright Jack. F**k you… Where is the morality in that ?

      Reply
    • I can do without ice-cream, I’d far rather a secure future for my two kids, and that includes a decent health and education service. Shouting “Fuck” a lot and maybe smashing a few windows, burning down someone’s place of work, how exactly is that going to help? If you don’t want to be patted on the head then don’t act like a stroppy teenager.

      I’m not putting down the Greeks. I’ve spent a fair bit of time there and I’ve a lot of friends living there. I’m saying that Ireland is not in the same position as Greece, and so it doesn’t make sense to copy their actions.

      Reply
    • I can do without the pat on the head too . I would rather for people to stand up and say Enough. I want to send a definite message to the Government . I never once said that I condone violence , or copy the Greeks ,not once . but do something . I have joined the Campaign against the householdand water tax. I have paid my dues all my life as did my parents and family and friends and neighbours . and will continue to pay them , but I am damned if I am going to be held to ransom for some fat cat thieving bankers and their unsecured loans. What we need here is jobs and growth NOT unemployment and austerity.
      So if you want to play fair then more fool you …because they do not know what fair play is …

      Reply
    • Oh John Conniffe
      I want the same for my kids as you want for yours , but closing your eyes and wishing wont make the bad men go away ……

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    • Good for you. Bad decisions have been made on our behalf. Our country and our children’s country has been mismanaged. I’m in no way disputing that. I’m also not saying we should do nothing. I am saying that we need to repair the damage being done to our lives, and not add to it. There are no “bad men”, just short-sighted and incompetent men. People are trying to keep things moving, day to day, this doesn’t mean they’re hiding from the truth. We need to play to our strengths, not just radiate our aggression. And don’t put yourself on a pedestal, that’s a sure fire way of losing support for a worthy cause.

      Reply
    • Don’t be so naive to think that there are no bad men. Its only 60 odd years since the world was full of bad men that cared little for the loss of millions including dropping nuclear bombs. Power is power and the people that are deciding our fate only look at us as numbers like they always have.

      Reply
    • John C
      What does this mean Please ?
      ”We need to play to our strengths, not just radiate our aggression. And don’t put yourself on a pedestal, that’s a sure fire way of losing support for a worthy cause.”

      Reply
    • John you talk about acting like a stroppy teenager, but your comment and dismissal of the worth of protest smacks of exactly that.
      Ireland is not in the same position as Greece, that doesn’t mean it’s a better one. do you honestly think the current plan of action is working?
      How can we play to our strengths when governments are blatantly ignoring the welfare of the people.

      Reply
    • john i think the people who are not happy with this goverment want people to at least protest not burn buildings this is the propaganda being pushed by the civil war parties

      Reply
  • I think we get our passiveness from the Mammies who reared us to believe there’s always hungrier children in Africa. Replace ‘hungrier children’ and ‘Africa’ with ‘broker people’ and ‘Greece’ then quit your moaning and finish your dinner.

    Reply
  • Oh yes what a great idea burn the bejaysus out of the country and let’s see how much it costs to fix it up again. Greeks were avoiding tax for years and they are where they are because of that, so like us take the pain.

    Reply
    • I agree with you Paul.

      I do not agree with violence ,at all.However I do believe there is only so far that
      we can allow ourselves be pushed further into austerity / poverty.This is why I am
      supporting the Campaign Against Household and Water tax….I am sick
      to the teeth of feeling impotent against this government and the lies they
      told us, so they would get elected.And as for that shower of Fianna
      Faillures who brought us to this. Simples… Join the Campaign

      Reply
    • Whoever disliked Eileens comment need to cop on to themselves.
      They need to realise that even if they can pay it, theres other people who can’t and that we need to stick together with these people to help them out!

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  • The last big protest here PAYE 500000 + on the streets came about when the unions mobilised however with jack o Connor and his buddies are bought and paid for and o Connor as a member of the labour party will tow Gilmores line.
    It’s that simple just look at their non stance on household charge sceptic tank issue.
    “The working class can kiss my ass cause I’m the governor now”
    Tell us all about the SIPTU /HSE slush fund o Connor !!!

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  • Halve the dole and you’ll get your riot

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  • There’s an interesting article here from Spain in which the author argues that high unemployment is actually in businesses’ interests, because it ensures those who have jobs will just muck along without asking for improved conditions because everyone buys into the “aren’t you lucky to have a job” line.

    http://blogs.publico.es/luis-garcia-montero/211/el-paro-como-negocio/

    So perhaps those who have jobs feel they shouldn’t protest because, as they see unemployment levels skyrocket, feel they’re better off concentrating on their job rather than downing tools and striking in solidarity with others affected by the bust.

    Reply
    • I remember hearing years ago that an employer will only pay enough and no more, to ensure the return to work of the employees the following monday ….That makes sense to me , but why are we paying unsecured bond holders???

      Reply
    • James Gaffney. Have you got fitted for your crazy cat suit too? Impressed. :-)

      Reply
    • I have it sussed! I see their plan now, bring the PIIGS to total ruin, then we’ll be cheaper than China to produce in and all the factories will move to the PIIGS. Awesome! Job security, plenty of work, there’ll be so much work there won’t be time for family life.
      Good auld Enda and EU, playing their cards close to their chest so China doesn’t get wind.
      …But I suppose China will own a reasonable amount of Europe by then anyway.

      Reply
  • B7584 14/02/12 #

    I wouldnt rule it in or out in Ireland just yet. There WILL be a straw to break the camels back.

    Reply
    • That straw has already come along buddy with the combination of the Household and Septic Tank Charges! Check out the campaign website and rhe growing amount of public meetings around the country.. Each being attended by hundreds!
      We had a march. As demanded from the floor at local meetings, and rally in new Ross last Saturday. In bad weather we still had 500 plus and all the local papers had it on front page this week.. This is the straw!!

      Reply
    • Nigel O Neill
      Fair play to you all there in New Ross …At least we are doing some thing . Onwards and up wards . They can not ignore all of us .

      Reply
  • Ratzo 14/02/12 #

    Thats a really great question, I been asking myself the same question ever since I got back to this shitty stinking stagnant fucking hole in the ground.

    Alls I know is I’m stuck here. I know also I’m surrounded by a nation of people who complain and complain and complain and fucking complain, like non stop and yet for all that piss and wind they accomplish nothing. They change nothing. affect nothing. Do absolutely nothing. Its like some kind of weird disease of the mind where everyone has decided, lets just wait….lets just wait and see……yes lets just wait…………they wont do that…..oppps they just did…..ah well……lets see what happenns….will we?……..lets.

    Their politicians piss in their pockets and would be just as well staying in bed for all the use they are, because as politicians go, they do rank amongst some of the worst I have ever encountered, and thats saying something, cause I have lived in some third world shit holes and have seen at times the worst the world has to offer in that way. Irish politicians truly bring a whole new meaning to the age old carton like pictures of pigs with their heads in the trough. I mean these pigs bring full color to corruption and nepotism where there was once only black and white.

    Never in my years on this earth have I ever seen politicians so often give their voting public the finger as they do here. Pension payouts that beggar belief, advisor’s salary that nearly approximate the salary of a US president, boards of inquiry that run for nearly 10 years, cost 30 million and nobody gets arrested. It would be funny as all hell if it were not so so so depressing. To me, Ireland is almost like a post modern work of art painted on a public toilet urinal wall. Lovely to look at as you piss all over it.

    In Ireland they just get up everyday and play the same tape they played yesterday. The politicians and civil servants pay themselves more, pay their citizens less and plan to tax the country more.

    Fuck it, I’m going to bed.

    Reply
  • Too busy reading the journal and posting comments.

    Plus I work during the day. No time for things like that. What’s the point of burning your own town down.

    Reply
    • Chris
      Your post is one that does not deserve any thumbs down.
      Why the negative stance by some readers then?
      It makes me wonder.

      Reply
    • I think it’s the apathy Michael. The important part of that comment is:

      “Too busy reading the journal and posting comments. Plus I work during the day. No time for things like that.”

      Not:

      “What’s the point of burning your own town down.”

      To me that says “meh… it doesn’t really bother me today, so it’s not my problem.”

      100,000 people sitting outside the dail chanting at Enda would get things started. Wouldn’t have to light a match or break a single thing.
      In my opinion violence comes when everything else fails, there won’t be discussion about it, their won’t be a plan – frustration will just boil over.
      But apparently that will never be a problem because no-one sees the issue, so no-one protests, so it’ll never get to that point of violence.
      People burning an looting at these protests are the exception to the rule.
      Can you imagine what would actually happen if the 80,000 protesters in Greece actually went burning things? the whole of southern Europe would be in flames.

      Reply
    • Paul, it’s not apathy, it’s realisation that rioting & destroying businesses is nothing more than “I’ve lost EVERYTHING and I want YOU GOVERMENT PRICKS to do SOMETHING about it! If you DON’T I will take this SHOTGUN and BLOW OFF MY OWN HAND!”

      Why the hell would you blow off your own hand?
      What disadvantage does that put them?
      What good does that do to you?

      Reply
    • Colm F
      You roll over there beside Enda and enjoy the pat down and belly rub Angela M and Sarkozy will
      give you while they strip you and yours of your future. :) or you can open your eyes and become aware
      and say No .Stop. Enough is enough . Again I want to say I do not condone violence .but email your locals td’s
      ministers, go to public meetings in your area and join the Campaign Against the Household and Water Tax……..

      Reply
  • I would think the Irish people would have more Cop on then to set fire to public buildings just because they are un happy with the governments…

    Reply
  • Maybe Ireland just doesn’t have it as bad as people make out…

    Reply
  • We are a bunch of lazy nellies…the only thing we seem to be good at is moaning…

    Reply
  • The tipping point will come….eventually….maybe….

    http://brianpolitics.wordpress.com

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  • I do not think the the Greek and Irish positions bear comparison. We started our cuts from a stronger position than the Greeks. After 5 Years of cuts we are still among the lowest taxed countries in Europe and the majority know this. We also “enjoy”, if thats the right word, some of the highest social welfare benefits. Tertiary education fees are also amongst the lowest despite the steep increases in recent years.

    Unemployment is an extremely serious issue but in terms of anger and protest, this is, as you say, dampened by the emmigration safety valve and the fact that we have a higher incidence of teo working partners in our families. Home owners, particularly those on negative equity, are particularly hard hit. However, by their very nature, home owners are self reliant and conservative.

    Finally, by comparison to others, we do have an open administration and an enquiring press, so we know the true nature of our financial position. We may not agree with the steps being taken to correct the imbalances but we do at least know why they are being taken.

    We will protest, earbash our TD’s and moan like hell, but we won’t riot in great numbers because we know the score.

    Reply
  • People dying and shops burning. What a horrific thing to glorify and even wish for.

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  • Where will rioting get us? Leave people in hospital to a system that is already under pressure, burn property etc that we can’t afford to fix anyway, it would cause more hurt than good! Plus the huge factor of it all would be the negative impression it would give us internationally as a people, sure we’re all suffering and the whole situation stinks but the bottom line is we need to get back to the bond markets as soon as we can and any investor wherever they may be in the world are certainly not going to have any interest in buying bonds off a country where it’s people are on the streets rioting. Sentiment is already swinging in our favour, although very slowly, It is going in the rite direction.
    We will have to suffer on as generations have before us, a lot will unfortunately emigrate and the rest of us will just adapt and overcome!

    Reply
    • Stephen
      you are so gullible :)
      God for bid that any one sees us stand up for ourselves ( negative impression it would give us internationally) . I would as soon be remembered for being brave than laughed at for rolling over and playing dead ,just so we will look good . I am not prepared to give up my children’sself worth or futures or my parent’s and Grand parent’s legacy’s.

      Reply
  • Too many different social/middle class layers in this country each with their own interests. I suppose our government is cute that way. Students and OAPs were the only ones who stood up for their rights. No fear of repercussions. That’s admirable as I unfortunately am in the first mentioned group

    Reply
    • No fear of repercussions? The students didn’t shut up for weeks about the repercussions of their little riot!

      It was a seriously hypocritical protest to begin with, demanding that the rest of us pay their fees while they threw full cans of beer at the gardai.

      Reply
  • The only way Irish people will resort to large scale rioting is if an man sticks on an orange sash and walk down O’Connell street.

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  • It makes me sick the way people begrudged other people on hard times who may have lost their jobs, and you get moan bags cribbing and begrudging another person a little help in financial circumstances, I am a tax payer but I don’t moan about anyone getting some help in this crisis of the economy, but what makes me sick to the teeth is moan bags moaning at welfare people, it wasn’t them that put us in crisis if you want to target anyone then that’s the leaders and the bankers and developers who got us into this mess, so it would suit the moaners to remember this, we are all suffering in hard times and our tax money is going on dirt bags who got greedy and robbed and fleeced the people of this country, not the innocent victims here, so it would suit these moan bags to shut the he’ll up and get on your streets and fight back like I do, instead of humming and blaming the less of people and the lower wage people, who have endured slot of suffering and pain, it makes me boil when people discriminate other people, they are no better than the leader politicians that run this country, so excuse me, but shut the he’ll up if you don’t want to support a protest and voice yourselfs, as your no better than anyone so get real and get over it and do something about what is happening to us the people of Ireland, if you don’t want to end up like Greece, some of you make me sick, moaning like woman and begrudging you own people of a few bob, till they get on their feet, Rita cahill

    Reply
  • We are too busy kicking fuck out of each other & it’s too cold.

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  • Ardo Ci 15/02/12 #

    Good balanced assessment, Fergal. Perhaps the most important reason for the lack of street protest is that Ireland’s still relied heavily on the boat. This has been a release valve other countries don’t have as part of their national psyche. That or chem-trails! Either way that shower in Dole Eireann can be sure the day of reckoning can’t be far off.

    Reply
  • They have achieved nothing by rioting. They will end up leaving the euro anyway

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  • Maybe it is Victorian snobbery – ‘striking isn’t for our sort of person’. On the other hand so many of those that could strike have permanent jobs, very good pensions and working conditions – public service. The trade union leadership appear to earn more than someone running a small business and during the bubble sat on the boards of many of the banks that went ‘mad’. Israel just emerged out of a three day national public service strike at the weekend. Last year over 150,000 protested against falling salaries and rising rents in Tel Aviv. In Italy austerity has been met with sectoral strikes, the most inconvenient recently blocking the autostrade. Greece is caught in a revolving door of strikes. Looking at the Leinster House, I guess people don’t strike because in a deeply conservative society they don’t perceive a political alternative. Of course, widespread alcoholism among all groups and all ages probably helps dissipate the will to protest. However, the pensioners showed that once organised and forceful, governments listen. Praise the Elders.

    Reply
    • Jambbie 14/02/12 #

      I think the case with older people protesting is a different kettle. Firstly more of them have the time, and secondly, I think the Garda would’ve had a PR disaster if they had sprayed some pensioners with mace. But fair play to them all the same. ( the pensioners)

      Reply
    • Widespread alcoholism? The Greeks are not exactly strangers to the demon drink themselves…

      Reply
    • It is cowardice . It is not standing up and believing that each and every one of us deserve better . It is that we are afraid . It is that we are told we won’t be the well behaved little slaves if we do or say anything even mildly crossly.
      We are useless impotent people who will leave it to others to do the dirty work . We are afraid of who will see us , if we say STOP . Afraid to take up a challenge and support each other here in Ireland and not Brussels/ Frankfurt. and we feel guilty .Why ? because they in power tell us that only for them we would have or be nothing. So we lie down and believe what they tell us and wait for some one else to take up the challenge………… We are COWARDS.

      Reply
    • Eileen Gabbett, speak for yourself. I’m not a coward, I just don’t want the wreck my own country in a fit of pique.

      Look at our history, we don’t back down from trouble – if anything we seek it out. You may be a coward, but don’t assume the rest of us are as supine as you.

      Also, make your mind up; You were saying in a previous comment that you don’t believe in violence and now you put a lack of violence down to cowardice? Pathetic arguing.

      Reply
    • Charles
      I will address your three points .Last one first
      1)” Also, make your mind up; You were saying in a previous comment that you don’t believe in violence and now you put a lack of violence down to cowardice? Pathetic arguing.”
      Whether my argument is pathetic or not ,you responded to it !!!
      as for reacting ….all reaction is not violent .for example .I am encouraging every body not to register ,and not to pay the household or water charges…Again I will say I DO NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE. Join the Campaign against the household water tax

      Look at our history, we don’t back down from trouble – if anything we seek it out. You may be a coward, but don’t assume the rest of us are as supine as you. I’m not a coward, I just don’t want the wreck my own country in a fit of pique.
      You look at our history …..”we seek out trouble” traitorous comment.

      I’m not a coward, I just don’t want the wreck my own country in a fit of pique.
      What country is that ? Germany ? France ? or is it here Ireland ?
      I have news for you .Our countryis already wrecked , in the space of 4 years ….
      We MUST start rebuilding it through growth …..

      Reply
    • I didn’t think you could come up with a weaker argument but I’ll have more faith in future. (“YOU look at our history”….really??

      I responded to your comment becaus you called me and the rest of the country cowards. Nonsense like that needs to be corrected.

      The article asks why the Irish are not rioting and you say the answer is cowardice – that is you directly attributing a lack of violence to cowardice.

      You instructed me to look to our history. Ok; It’s not treason to say that the Irish have a history of involvement in war, it’s a fact. We were on both sides of the American civil war, both sides of the Boer war, both sides of the Spanish civil war. We were heavily involved in the Chilean and Argentinian wars of independence and the Mexican-American War. Per capita more Irish died than any other nationality in the British or Empire forces in ww1. More citizens of the Free State than Northerners fought in ww2. It’s not a bad thing – per capita the Irish have won more VCs than any other nationality. Ihavent even mentioned wars at home. These are facts and we should be proud of our tradition of bravery, it’s not treason to point out facts.

      Ireland has financial problems but setting the place on fire would compound them, not lessen them.

      I’m not burning any buildings because I don’t want to, not because I’m afraid. Do you understand?

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    • Charles Farrelly
      You point out even once where I have ever said that I condone violence or condone setting fire to property….

      Reply
    • I said you attribute a lack of violence to cowardice, and here’s where you did it

      Question; Athens is burning – so why are Ireland’s streets still quiet?

      You; It’s cowardice

      Is that clear enough for you? (Way to ignore everything else I said, by the way)

      Reply
    • I did not say that ….
      I said join the protest Campaign against the household and water tax .
      I have NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER said people should take up violence ..or riot on the street
      I want you to retract your comments .
      I did however say that people are cowards for not standing up to the government , I in clude myself in this. Until I joined the Campaign Against The Household and Water tax. I have found my voice .It is my voice I will use and You, whoever you are ,nor nobody else will dictate to me ,how I use it . Again I DO NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE.
      Now do not respond to my comments again ,in any guise or other name.
      Take up landscaping !
      YOU know what I mean .

      Reply
    • “I did not say that ….”

      Read your own comment. It was the first three words you said “It is cowardice.”

      “I want you to retract your comment”
      “Now do not respond to my comments again ,in any guise or other name.”

      Well which is it?

      I’m not retracting anything, I’ll comment when I want to and I’ve no idea what you’re on about with your landscaping thing.

      By the way, do you see the irony of making grandiose statements about how no-one will silence you….and then demanding that I shut up?

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    • … ……………… …… ……….. …………………..

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    • Are we playing Wheel of Fortune or is that an attempt at being clever?

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  • I think the one of the points in the article is valid. The fact that we haven’t reached that ‘tipping point’. I think as it is now, we Irish see no point in protesting, rioting or picketing on a large scale because I think some people still believe there’s light at the end of the tunnel! Im not ready to go out and tear up and down Dublin professing my anger at the system because I have a slight ounce of faith left and hope a bit of good news is around the corner. But when/if the time comes by god I’ll be at the head of the pack.

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  • Why damage the property of the hard working man and ruin or own streets. As we will end up paying more to put it back right. The best thing we can do is wait for an electrical candidate to call to our door and kick them into a coma and tell the Garda that he was here to rob from you and you used reasonable force to protect you and your family.

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  • What the hell???? Are you seriously suggesting we should follow suit? Personally, I think your headline requires a major overhaul!

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    • nearly a 50%-50% split on that one!

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    • Yes let’s all follow suit then sit back and bitch about it when it makes things measurably worse. Is The Journal the Daily Mail now?

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    • Considering the hundreds of thosands of people who would like to stand up and be heard but who also can’t even afford a bus ticket to dublin, plus the government would just turn off the tv in the bar and ignore it, why don’t we get together and protest outside every single T.D’S homes from FG/Labour, that way people wouldn’t have to travel too far and making every T’D see and listen to what people really think every time they come and go from their homes will have a bigger impact i think or at least i would hope so

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    • Even someone on the dole can afford a ticket on the bus to Dublin. Flupping hyperbole.

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    • Gary, the dole is not the free-ride you make it out to be. There were times that I had to choose between saving money for the next go of rent and bills, or taking a chance and spending money I might need elsewhere to travel into town to have a chance of maybe getting a job.
      It’s the memory of that churning feeling in my stomach, the cold sweats, and sometimes sleepless nights, while I debated the – now, stupidly simple – decision of whether to get the bus in the morning, that makes my blood boil when I hear people mouthing off about how much of a gravy train the dole is.

      If it’s such a good life, why am I so terrified of being reduced to it again?

      Reply
    • Eugene the dole isn’t there to keep up a lifestyle, it there so you can survive. And as some of the most generous dole payments anywhere you can do more than survive in many cases. We had 150k people on the dole when we were importing large numbers of people to do our dirty work. I’m not attempting to tar you or anyone like you.
      My point stands though, that the majority can afford to get the bus to Dublin.

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    • I never said it’s there to maintain a lifestyle – I agree: its purpose should be to ensure survival (Shelter, food, clothes, facilitate job seeking). I’m pointing out it is very possible to be short of bus fare on the dole – that it’s not ‘flupping hyperbole’ to suggest that.

      I take issue with it being described as hyperbole, when I and others I know have been there. Some i know are there still.

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    • My original point wasn’t directed at the reasons why anyone would be on the dole. Nor was it any reflection of anyone on the dole. The point was and still is that most people could afford the bus fare to Dublin.

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  • We were always a slave nation prior to 1916. The slave psyche isn’t something that washes away over night. I’m sorry but Ireland is doomed unless we produce another Michael Collins

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  • Eric 14/02/12 #

    I don’t think the lack of Irish protests is a sign of servility or passivity on the part of the people – leftist commentators frequently like to characterise Irish people as sheep who can’t think for themselves ( in contrast to the commentators, supposedly)

    Im not out protesting because I know protests are not representative of public opinion, they’re simply representative of those who have the time and inclination to go to protests during the day(the unemployed, students etc) the rest of us ar

    Secondly, we’re not quite as immersed.

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    • And thank jesus there are people out of work/students to protest for us cause we the working ones would be working 70 hours a week , be taxed to the brink to pay unsecured bondholders and the list goes on.

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  • Tell ya why were not protesting. The public service know they have got off easy. No disputing they have the best pay conditions in Europe. The farmers are doing well with incomes up 25%. The pensioners and long term social welfare have largely been spared and again are have some of the highest rates in Europe. This whole mess is resting on the shoulders of the working people and those who have lost there jobs and we are too busy trying to hold everything together. But I tell you I am really starting to hate this country for what it’s doing to me.

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    • Fair play to ye Ballyer, arent you a right clever clogs! Our new masters have taught you well.

      Give out about the civil servants, give out about the farmers, give out about those on long term social welfare payments and moan that they havent done too badly. But you see, while your busy moaning about all of us your forgeting to leave the blame where it belongs – at the feet of politicians. I wish I could say on the shoulders of politician but unfortunately they wont ever understand, and neither will their children, what it is like to carry the financial burdan they have put upon ours.

      You should never say you hate your country – its not very patriotic. We have a beautiful country, we’re a friendly enough bunch, tourists love us and we have a society made up of the best educated workforce in Europe – theres 3 reasons to be proud. But by all means hate those that are making our lives and that of OUR CHILDRENS, financially debilitating.

      Reply
    • Ann & Balyer
      It is called divide and conquer …..We must refocus and settle the blame
      squarely where it belongs .We are beginning to see the light and realise it is not OUR fault ,whoever we are. Unless you are amulti millionair banker, developer, speculator, Politician?, or any one trying to sell us out to the troika and European puppeteers…..
      God help us all , we need to stick together

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  • Out of the 100,000 people who marched the other night probably 1% rioted after been fired upon first by the police. Everyone gets painted with the same brush, state and corporate media run with it and people lap it up as usual. Don’t condone rioting in any way but things are going to get a lot worse in Greece and here and when people have nothing to lose and see so much inequality in the country they lose all reason. Lets not forget the crimes that have happened and are ongoing against most of the citizens of this country by a ruling elite. There has to be wide spread debt forgiveness around the world in the next few years cause the figures dont add up and us the people gotta make sure we have a say in it cause the gobshites in charge dont give a rats about us.

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  • Just letting all the holier-than-thou armchair anarchists commenting here all know that if anyone riots on my street they’ll get a stick taken to them! And before you can say it, I’m not a nameless technocrat from Brussels, I’m just a Donegal man with a big stick :)

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  • It would be interesting to see what exactly is getting burnt down over there. Most of these protests (that turn into riots because of police brutality) take place in the financial and government districts. In all likelyhood, the only places being burnt down are the properties of those that got them into their mess. If the same was to kick off here, it not a clothes shop or pub (definitely not a pub!) that would go, its banks first and foremost and government offices second.

    In saying that, people need to show restraint. Because of the people that own the media, any sort of aggression shown by protestors will be flipped and made to show them to be scum. Why do you think the police bring out the riot gear, the water cannons and the batons? To make people feel threatened so they will react. If they were interested in having peaceful protests there would be a standard Garda presence. Ghandhi’s methods were by far the best and most effective.

    This is going to be a mental year in Ireland. Over the last 6 months I have seen people that wouldn’t have before given to squirts about politics begin reading and educating themselves on whats actually going on. How do we make something happen? We need to organise as many regional protests as possible to coincide with the Dublin ones. Most people can’t travel to the capital on days of protest, and on days of protest in Dublin there doesn’t tend to be one outside there, so the effect is lessened. We need one that won’t just make and impression here and there, we need to make the whole island rock at once!

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    • Insightful comment, hats off to you. Heads off to you know who.

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    • now that’s the type of talk that’s needed. Coordinated effort. maybe through local free newspapers, as well as internet organising. Something like that would definitely be needed to get everyone on board.
      I feel it would also be a key point to ensure the NO political parties are involved. Once a political party appears in the mix you loose everyone who isn’t a follower of that part – no matter how good their intentions (and we all know about politicians intentions).

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    • Just one problem Val. Any, and I mean *Any* excuse for a violent riot, no matter who the original target is *will* turn into a smash-and-grab looting of businesses, because every day in every city centre there’s the kind of scummers who love to get in a good fight, hanging around getting their fix. They will see what’s going on and join in, not giving a shite about the issue at hand, just getting their big plasma TV. Example? The Love Ulster riots.

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  • Greek rioting is being stirred by those trying to convince the guillible that they can continue spending billions more than they earn and not have to face the reality that they have actually run out of money.

    In Ireland we are better educated about our nation’s problems now.

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    • The twitter backslapping society we usually get in here won’t thank you for this but it also won’t make it any less true.

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    • What makes you guys thing they don’t know they can’t spend billions any more?
      Maybe they’re a bit pissed off that they’re being run by a bank now.
      Nice to see you creating further divisions Gary, if I log in with my Facebook account instead will that get you on side? :-P

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  • Whatever the reason or merits, I and thousands like me worldwide, have decided not to go on holidays to Greece for a while.

    Now those who are burning down buildings might not think that tourist income is important but I am pretty sure that the hotel workers, restaurant staff and economists would disagree.

    Reply
    • What’s a ‘holiday”?

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    • Undecided about holidays, I’m thinking Netherlands for it’s architecture, history and easy access to other European countries, I’ll take a pic of the plane ticket/hotel reservation if i do decide to go, y’know, just to back up my comment :P

      Reply
    • Amsterdam is lovely, spectacular old architecture, good food, though it can be a tad expensive. The red light district is even seedier than you can imagine, visit during the daytime (for sightseeing and curiosity) but avoid at night. Rijksmuseum is one of the best I’ve been to, but the Anne Frank House is so crowded as to take hours.

      Reply
    • I’ve been there before Tom, it’s my preferred destination for holidays, I’m not one for sunny weather and beaches :P
      I normally have great plans to base myself in Amsterdam and take excursions to visit friends in Belgium and France but normally never get any further than a few mile from the hotel…and not becasue of the coffee shops either. :)

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  • so what’s the purpose ne this article? is it to incite a riot! Irish people may just realise that the country is broke and breaking up the streets and burning down buildings is not going to change this. also there is a feeling that half the working population are sheltered from the ill wind as they work in the public sector and another third are unemployed and on benefit. the only idiots are the private sector paye worker who don’t have sufficient numbers for a decent march and general mayhem.

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  • Like our politicians we have no spines.

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  • I hate reading the comments on this site, it’s always about people griping about money, recessions, economies. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Can everyone just cheer up just a little? It would have a profound effect on the country as a whole if you did. If you feel really oppressed, go live in a third world country and try a those in their shoes before you moan about finances again.

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    • another bullshit comment.
      our country is being stripped bare and you’re attitude is “at least we’re not as bad as *insert random country here*”.
      With that attitude it won’t be too long before you won’t have to go anywhere.
      Money absolutely does not bring happiness, I agree 100% – but when used effectively it sure can cause a hell of a lot of misery.
      A cohesive, fair society with good public services and an ethic that promotes inclusion and individual contribution would bring a lot more happiness.
      Saying things like “could be worse…” can only bring more problems.

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    • Out you go to the streets to protest Paul with you immaculate can-do attitude…I can’t wait to see how successful you are. Also what country are you basing the “fair cohesive” society on? Switzerland? Life isn’t always fair and constant moaning about it will never ever help. Be proactive. If your not happy about whats going on do something about it. Otherwise don’t be an armchair terrorist and spew misery from your keyboard.

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    • PS. Sorry for the double post. The Journal should really have a “Delete” button!

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    • I have done, I left. But I’m after realising while reading the comments on this article, and through interpreting one of them incorrectly. That I’ve only left in body, not in mind. So you’re right – it’s time to make the final push and leave proper. I’ll leave you to your unfair life with your can’t-do attitude, and get on with my own.
      Your type of attitude is part of the reason people run from Ireland when politicians rip the country apart for their own ends. However, I hope it all works out for you.
      Enjoy yourself!

      Reply
  • Remember the last burning in Greece when three innocent people died and a tv presenter on Prime Time advocated much what you are pondering.the Journal to even consider violence shows the backbone of thee journal another sun?

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  • made 14/02/12 #

    Wait a while longer and it will. Budget 2013 will see to it.

    Reply
  • If our water wasn’t loaded with relaxants and our air wasn’t being pumped with chemicals on a daily basis then I’d imagine you’d see a load of savage irish rage creatures biting at the bricks of Leinster house!

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  • I am sad to say that I am Irish” Because the Whole Problem here is I goes on all the Protest to Voice my Opinion and let these shower of wankers know that I will not lie down or sit on my ass without fighting for what I believe in, but unfortunate I cannot speak for the rest of the cowards that don’t come out to the streets to voice their opinion, they would rather sit home and play their games on a play station or twiddle on face book all day, because they have it too easy, we need to call on a strike to all workers and hold the country to a standstill, including shutting the internet down and ESB power Cuts down. And Aeroplanes stopped from flying out a d bus transports stopped and trains shut the bloody lot down, and then people should all take to the streets, this is the only way we can voice out loud without intervening Violence, that should get the Governments Attention” that we are the People and we Need to Be Listened to.
    Rita Cahill

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  • Down with this sort of thing!!!

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  • Occupy the unions!!!

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  • What are trying to do Journal? Mick off a civil war here? Destroy the country and all is well? Brilliant move!

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  • some of the reasons people give above are so clichéd they’re laughable!

    good observations in the article about the unions, their membership stats, (34 per cent of the working population, of which 45 per cent are in the public sector) their bosses pay & the public sector = jobs for life

    all contributing factors

    facing up to the fact that things can never go back the way they were, is difficult for a lot of people who done what was asked of them…..jump on the property ladder, work hard to pay it all, reap the rewards of the brave new tiger Ireland.

    now these people are sitting back waiting for the government to fix it , get it back on the same track they so heavily invested in

    aint gonna happen

    when this finally sinks in……

    Reply
  • The vast majority of people protesting in Greece are government employees. Here in Ireland the same group are protected under the Croke Park agreement. If the government were to tackle the public service employees , then you would be more likely to see strikes and protests. With their protected status , ie jobs for life they are the only group who can afford to strike.

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  • we voted these arseholes into the dail … so we deserve what we are getting

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  • GRRR, RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE.
    Just wanted to sum up most of the contributions on this article. I’d take some of you more seriously but you won’t even answer basic questions.

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  • As bad as things are I sincerely think the Irish are way too apathetic and it might never reach London/Athens level of protesting, I can’t personally visualise it anyway

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  • This argument that goes “we shouldn’t protest because we’ll wreck up a shop or cinema, where we could be getting a job” is short-sighted and bizarre.

    I’m sick of this fetishisation of ‘jobs’ We are happy to give up all hope in this mad rush for paid work, instead of fighting for real change and a chance to build real and meaningful careers.

    The average media portrayal of protest here is so obviously twisted. When we are shown a revolt in one of the more “exotic” countries (in fact Edward Said must be rolling in his grave) we are often shown the protestors’ side of the story and they are portrayed as heroes facing down an obviously corrupt regime. When it has happened here, and it has happened a few times in the last year; but on a smaller scale, the protestors are the “dirty students” or “idealistic hippies” threatening the reasonable democratic process. The narrative twisting here is so obvious and so full of self-preservation and cynicism.

    Read some Theory. Read Guy Debord. Read about the Situationist International. Or one of the many other, similar, groups. These things have happened before and they are happening again now. Ireland is one of the few countries where the population side with the establishment, and join them in bitching about the “hippies”. Maybe it comes from an inferiority complex, I don’t know. But something is wrong with the people here. I don’t normally give credence to the 1916 guys and now I give them less. Nobody is doing anything; except for a few brave souls who are quickly ostracised. As Yeats said, romantic Ireland’s dead and gone, it’s with O’Leary in the grave.

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  • Not sure I would have said that while posting from my business twitter. I don’t agree with it either.

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  • Ardo Ci 19/02/12 #

    Another thing to throw into the mix is the realisation that they give out anti -depressants here like smarties. So that’s one large section of the population who won’t be rioting.

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  • The Irish rarely protest about anything. Except when people point out that they rarely protest about anything. Pathetic, really.

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  • Who has the guts to throw the first molotov cocktail?

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  • Reading the comments here you can see why we haven’t been out on the streets as one united force. The unions are protecting what they have, as are the public sector, as are the pensioners, as are the unemployed, as are the working class, as are the part time landlords….. we’re all still doing ok. The people who aren’t doing ok are the people who don’t vote or protest in any country. Give it another year and the mood will change.

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  • I hear in the news that the greeks have to give their children away, because they can’t afford to feed them, and I hope that doesn’t happen here in Ireland, because if it did, we would have cause to riot.

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