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Dublin: 16 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Column: Four years of crisis, and still no clear deal on mortgage debt

The failings of Government to take simple steps to help mortgage holders has caused further damage – and the Insolvency Bill is by no means our saviour, writes David Hall.

David Hall

MAYBE THE LOW turnout in the children’s referendum is not that surprising. There comes a time when people – having been respectful, patient and tolerant – have to say enough. We as citizens are taking a significant amount of pain for the wrongdoing of banks, bankers and regulators. When a government cannot mobilise its people to vote for child protection , maybe – just maybe – the biggest alarm should go off.

Mortgage holders within the state have been let down by a lack of leadership from both government parties. This was held over us at the last election, but many feel – the electorate having done what was asked of them and given a clear mandate to Fine Gael and Labour – they have let mortgage holders down. When this Government took office and when they promised to assist the thousands of people in mortgage difficulty, the percentage of those in arrears was five per cent. The current percentage is 10.9 per cent. This has been a predictable sum and one which could and should have been dealt with much better. The effect would be to assist both those in difficulty and the economy in general.

Many mortgage holders have not only the challenge of their mortgage debt, but also unsecured debt that is weighing them down and preventing any chance of them dealing effectively with their mortgage debt. Many of the decisions currently being taken by banks are influenced by the number of unsecured creditors one has. A clear and understandable process is needed, to give clarity to mortgage holders as to what real options and solutions exist.

Every so often the Government will announce a new product or initiative aimed at helping mortgage holders. The truth is that they are rubbish. They are laden in bureaucracy, with no clear, coherent plan or application process to achieve the benefit.

Failings

They failed in taking a simple step to help mortgage holders by not beefing up Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS). Four years have now passed and still MABS remains attached to the Citizens Information Board. It should be a standalone beacon for those in debt with its own board, with its own CEO and strategic plan, adaptable to the current needs of those in debt. Lets not forget this crisis began four years ago. MABS’ cost to the tax payer is €18 million per year. It’s amazing how such a large question of value for money stares Minister Burton in the face daily.

Those in mortgage difficulty have a dysfunctional system available to assist them. One can call a helpline which is run by the parent company of MABS, call into a MABS office run by one of 52 voluntary boards – of 52 individual limited companies – or go to an accountant after you have poured your financial heart out to your bank. The accountant, for a fee, will translate what the bank is offering you – no advice, just translation. MABS provides an excellent service but that’s because their staff are dedicated and trusted by the public, not because of the leadership shown by the minister or the Citizens Information Board. Only creditors including banks have benefited from this inaction.

Insolvency Bill

Now we are given the Insolvency Bill, which is being promoted as our saviour. Vested interests both politically and professionally will welcome the Bill, but its extremely difficult for debtors to achieve any real protection within the Bill. The banks have a veto and there is no independent oversight of the decisions a bank might make. As a senior figure in the Central Bank has suggested, banks are like teenagers. I say it might not be advisable to leave teenagers in a free house unsupervised.

This Bill will also promote the tiering of debtors, where professional insolvency practitioners will naturally select those who can pay for insolvency services and leave those who cannot to fend for themselves. As currently presented, in order to apply for bankruptcy you will have to jump over more hurdles than there are in an Olympic race track.

There is a need for expert assistance to be available to mortgage holders to ensure their interests are protected in relation to dealing with banks and other creditors. The failure of Government and banks to deal with this crisis has made a difficult situation becoming close to unmanageable. With figures for the third quarter due out soon showing those in arrears the time has come for action.

I with others who feel equally strongly are working through a new organisation the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation to advocate on behalf of debtors, to work to bring long term solutions and systems  to over indebtedness and to allow this great country move forward.

David Hall was one of the co-founders of New Beginning in 2010. In July 2012, David and other concerned citizens established the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation (IMHO) to help consumers tackle the increasing burden of personal debt. In addition to IMHO, David owns and runs Lifeline Ambulance Service. David also founded the Make-A-Wish Foundation in 1992.

Read more articles by David Hall here>

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Comments (93 Comments)

  • Well I can tell you something for nothing. If the house tax is taken from my salary I will be deducting the equivalent from my mortgage repayments. It all goes to the banks anyway.

    Reply
    • The most disgusting thing about all of this
      is that,
      collections agents from these criminal/corrupt banks have been going around this country for the last 5 years
      illegally extorting partial payments out of mortgage holders
      knowing fine and well that these mortgages are in fact long dead and totally un-savable
      telling them lies like
      “we will work something out for you”
      “you may be able to keep your home”
      “come in and talk, now dont put your head in the sand”

      No matter what lies your sweet talking, silver tongued, conman of a collection agent tells you,
      making these illegally extorted “partial payments” will not stop you from getting repossessed.
      In fact you will get thrown out just as quick if not quicker than the mortgage holder that is not paying and not cooperating.
      This is fraud.

      Reply
    • Ok people…we gota all stick together and hold firm and stop paying your mortgage…if we can get 100,000 mass defaults for a few months it will send a clear signal to the corrupt banks and european pay masters that we the Irish have decided enough is enough and we will pull down the Euro as a result…i bet they will come back fairly lively and do a debt deal with the country…

      Reply
    • I’m there man.
      I’m there.

      Reply
    • Conor 08/12/12 #

      Tweedle dumb and tweedle see

      Reply
    • Two cents – great idea! This would be a great kick up the arse and would send the proper message that we’re not taking this crap anymore!

      How could it be organised though?

      Reply
    • Ok. You go first

      Reply
    • I’m there.
      (for a good while)

      Reply
    • Take the saying…if ya owe the bank 50,000…your in trouble….if you owe the bank 500,000,000 they are in trouble…so using that people power…we organise a Mass Mortgage Default campaign for 5months…where 100,000 neg equity home owners decide to stop payments…thats an avg 1000euro mortgage payment a month x 100,000 home owners…that will mean the banks are down

      Reply
    • ….banks will be down 500M over the period of the campaign… that will make the ECB get very nervous…other euro countries are likely to copy us and suddenly the Euro will be on the brink….a massive euro debt write off deal will be agreed and we will all have disposable income to spend in our local economies and creats growth and then this will bring us out of the ressession…thats the Model I think could work..

      Reply
  • David, the solution is staring you in the face. Why you are even still trying to get this Government to honour promises they made, goes beyond me. They don’t care about ordinary people. The budget they delivered on Wednesday proved once and for all that they are only in power so as to look after themselves and the powerful friends that tell them what to do. The answer to mortgage debt and negative equity is mass default. Every ordinary person with a mortgage in this country should stop making their monthly payments right now. Even if ( like me) you are lucky enough to be in a position to manage your mortgage, it doesn’t matter. Stop paying it today. The biggest burden ordinary people have, is actually our greatest weapon. If everyone agreed to stop these payments, I guarantee that within two months the government would be falling over themselves with proper thought out solutions. If we don’t act, this problem will take generations to fix.

    Reply
    • Correct and right….. Our burden should be OUR biggest weapon..

      Reply
    • 100% correct. Stop paying now & they will sit up & take notice. Banks have already been recapitalised to include mortgage writedown but they are sitting in their hands doing nothing in the hopes the arrears crisis will resolve itself.

      Reply
    • Hear
      Hear
      Rodrigo.
      This FINANCIAL GENOCIDE must stop now.

      Reply
    • For someone who took out a modest mortgage they are well able to service (even if their income decreased), why would they stop paying it?

      Reply
    • Because maybe he is sick of seeing hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and women being bullied to the verge of suicide/self harm by corrupt/criminal banks who are fully enabled and supported by a bought out government.

      Reply
    • Happily able to pay my mortgage but I think rodrigo is correct. It’s time the people speak and say enough of bailing banks out none stop and paying of the costs of failed developers. Time to remind what is called our government that they answer to the people and we need to do that sooner then the next election. The total inactivity by 2 governments now to address the problem of people who genuinely need help is a disgrace. Irish citizens cutting off the flow of money to our failed banks would make those who claim to lead this country wake up and start leading, I hope.

      Reply
    • Exactly Kerry
      I think people are getting p****d of with being told by our “leaders” that
      Those corrupt/criminal bankers
      Those greedy corrupt developers
      Those lazy absent regulators
      Those corrupt self serving politicians
      Destroyed the country
      And by the way we are not going to punish them in any way
      In fact we are going to reward them with huge salaries,pensions,expenses and bonuses.
      While we starve you the taxpayer to death to pay for their corrupt criminal acts.

      Reply
    • So right.

      Reply
    • howya 08/12/12 #

      Reminds me of the story “who will hang the bell on the cat”?

      Reply
  • If a solution is based on fundamentals
    as it should be.
    then everyone wins.

    If this solution is implicated now.
    Things will start to improve for everyone.
    If not,
    then people who have what are presently referred to as “stable sustainable mortgages” will also start to default.

    The people responsible are not providing solutions,
    so people will have to create their own.

    Reply
  • they are waiting and hoping this all goes away

    Reply
  • They’d see us on the streets before they’d upset the banks!!!! It’s disgusting!!!

    Reply
  • There’s profit in dept, as long as they make profit they will keep the foot firmly on the throat. Mass default and they might listen.

    Reply
  • Irish people don’t have even have the balls to take part in protests or demonstrations, nevermind default en masse! If I was crippled with a mortgage and unable to provide for my family, like some of the stories I’ve been hearing since Wednesday, that would be the first bill I’d let slife. As for the threat of repossession, I think I’d burn it to the ground first.

    Reply
  • Maybe Stephen Donnelly will break the mould and organise this en mass . Let’s ask .

    Reply
  • This property hangs around me lije a noose. If I could walk away with my qualifications and work experience I could have a much better life abroad. No one will rent it as local illegal freeloading tenants wont be evicted as per the laws. I’m crucified on rip off managemenr fees too which is not legislated for either. Property taxes and other punishments mean Dublin City Council will get handed my key one day and they may chase me to the other end of the world if they wish.

    Reply
    • I agree john , wonder out of interest if you were given a once off deal where u could hand back the keys how many people would leave the country then , my guess is that we would see thousands seeking a better life abroad.

      Reply
    • Hundreds of thousands Dave. How many skilled workers have we got (30-50) that have all the knowledge and skill but just don’t have the papers. The young uns have emigrated straight off the bat and what’s left is a deflated middle aged empathetic Ireland. Given the chance they’d be off iLife they could. I’v never seen so many mature students trying to up skill, not just for the sake of it but to get the ticket out if here.

      Reply
  • The heading mentions the word “clear” and it is crystal clear what our government and unions are doing. They are playing for time and ring fencing the Croke Park deal for a longer period which enables all concerned to retire in a few years time with huge pensions for the union chiefs and the TDs and senior civil servants.

    Reply
  • we need some body high profile wit balls to start this non compliance . . an. honest politician if. there is such a thing . . . . and if. we stop paying . thy will stand up and take note . . i my self have a small mortgage and yes i would stop paying . sick of. the. blood suckers at the top

    Reply
  • Maybe Stephen Donnelly will break the mould and organise this en masse!lets ask .

    Reply
  • Oh boy 07/12/12 #

    Oh this is a great article to se on a Friday night. Cheers

    Reply
  • Mass mortgage default appears to be the way forward to get the Government to take notice. But how?
    If everyone instead of paying into their mortgage account paid into a second account in their bank, then they are technically still paying what they can if any but just not allowing it to service the mortgage and so doing you are not making things much worse than they already are. It’s like a silent protest. No public gatherings, long trips to the Dail etc. The 1st of January 2013 sounds good to me.

    Reply
  • Last year I got into trouble financially & asked my bank could I take a moratorium , but because my mortgage was for affordable housing I couldn’t get one ( surely low earners like me would benefit more from this option ? ) anyway they offered me interest only for 6 months , unfortunately I still couldn’t make the full payments during this period , as €188 sick benefit a week doesn’t go very far , at the end of the 6 months I had still accrued some arrears , so I applied to go interest only again for next 6 months to help clear the arrears . In branch I was told yes, no problem that’ll be fine , but when the head office rang me it was a different story , as I hadn’t made the full payments during my interest only period it would not be extended , so I was now expected to go back to full payments & also clear the arrears , which for me was impossible . I’m still in arrears & get a letter each month to remind me , when I ring them one person tells me it’s fine as I’m making full payments again , the next person will tell me oh you need to clear the arrears ASAP . They tell me each time that my mortgage payments need to be first priority . So they obviously want me to go without heating , power , fuel etc , my social life is already gone . So I’ve given up engaging with them , I pay what I can when I can , if they want to take me to court so be it .

    Reply
    • Good on you Kim.
      A friend of mine was told by a bank (an Irish bank) not to pay the service charges,
      or the Insurance
      and to borrow money from his parents who were pensioners so that he could pay his mortgage.

      Reply
  • Hi , Check out Debtoptions on facebook PLEASE. Its not just about stop paying….its about suing each and every one of them for €1,000,000 for the stress they have caused in our lives. For the devastation of health, well being, relationships and families!

    Dont just take the power but turn the tables. If they are in litigation for millions they wont be able to sell their loan book!!!! Now that hurts. We are all doing this a slay litigants and are doing this for FREE. €138 to pay the High Court and after that we are all learning from each other. We have a team of legal experts and more behind us. We file again on Tues. Morning 11th Dec. 10am at the Spire at the GPO. 320 Irish people have already taken this action. Check out our page and get in touch. Do it legally and lawfully.

    The time is NOW!

    Reply
  • interesting concept to stop paying our mortgage , in doing this in a United way we the people could stand together. unfortunately we are Irish , greed and yelous will come into play . already u can read comments here of people blaming anyone who is in massive negative equity of either being stupid or greedy . we will never get out of this mess until everyone understands the less u have after paying your bills / taxes the less you can spend back into the economy and the more business’s go under .

    Reply
    • i know i am self employed and every week we see less and less customers coming through the doors . people can’t. spend what thy don’t. have .
      and the parasites keep feeding. on. the back. of. once a great nation

      Reply
  • The thing about the often mooted Mortgage Debt relief is that people who didn’t borrow beyond their means or planned for the rainy day that inevitably would follow the Celtic Tiger would be effectively punished for managing their finances wisely. Not sure what the answer to that is.

    Reply
    • Vincent i planned for the rainy day have paid off any loan i ever took out.Paying a small mortgage.I can barely manage all the other little bills our leaders keep imposing on me to pay off the debt of others.If i had to pay a few more euro to allow my family member,friend or neighbour to become a funtioning member of society i would galdly do so.Instead my money is being taken to pay off unsecured bondholders.Example today 63 million paid to an unsecured bondholder,Wednesday 21 million cut from the disabled wonder where the other 42 million was cut from.

      Reply
    • #Norman. I really, really, really don’t want to get into the same old argument. I know it’s Irish custom to blame “the Government”. But the reality is Ireland’s bankrupt. Our hospitals, Garda Barracks and schools are been kept open by EU money. And they’re demanding unsecured bondholders get paid. Blame the EU. Blame FF for getting us into this mess. But it’s a hard one to pin on the incumbent Government. Anyway- admirable and all as your generosity is- having watched people my age go ballistic on holidays, houses and cars over the 20 years since I left college, I’m not sure I see why my taxes should go towards propping them up.

      Reply
    • I agree Vincent. Propping up the banks is wrong but two wrongs don’t make a right.

      Reply
    • I am actually in the same boat Vincent, small mortgage and didnt go mad either but something is going to have to be done, germany will be pushing for an interest rate rise quite soon and then we have a problem. A debt writedown has to be an option because the people who cant afford to pay there mortgages will drag us down aswell

      Reply
    • Get away out of that, Frank. I know you were in Lillies four nights a week with a different Xpose girl on your arm each night! #Legend!

      Reply
    • haha vincent your too kind
      no i really have a normal life, the usual, kids, job, house, few pints at the weekend and even though we clash on most subjects i genuinely do it because i believe there has to be a better way

      Reply
    • It amazing how some of you guys,are so willing to trust (without question) the very criminals/conmen who destroyed this country
      with the job of getting us out of this mess.

      The fox guarding the hen house??

      Reply
    • Don’t forget the cuts to household benefits for carers and oaps
      As a parent to a child with special needs let me say we have been hit every way. Many of us had to stop working, cuts to services so a home programme of therapy is needed (we are doing the therapy at home as the services aren’t available), 3 year wait to see a consultant ( available next week if we could afford to pay), cut in resource hours in schools, cut in child benefit, cut in respite grant (most of the parents I know use it to pay for treatment we cant get any other way), paying prsi on every penny our partners earn, property tax. The list goes on and on.
      In years to come these children will be a bigger burden in the state because of the cuts.
      Protest outside the Dail on Tuesday from 12.45pm. We are the voice of our children. No one plans for a child with special needs but they are a bessing and have a lot to give… Our so called government just hopes they go away… They haven’t counted on the fact their parents will fight tooth and nail for them.

      Reply
    • #Gathering- I don’t know if you noticed but there was actually a change of Government 18 months ago. Difficult to characterise Labour & FG as the ones who got us into this when they were out of power for 15 years.

      Reply
    • #Paula- there’s no excusing the reduction in the carers allowance. €26m? Had to be somewhere better to take it from.

      Reply
    • I was talking about the bankers Vincent.
      Our government answer to them.

      Reply
    • Have to agree. Although I think everyone who signed the forms should honour the money they signed for. Nobody put a gun to you’re head but this Property tax is a step to far imho & I’m behind everyone now when they say get together stop paying anymore money to these criminals & do it in the 10′s of 1,000′s then just wait to us see how quickly they stop the property tax then & start restructing. No more fighting people lets stick together now as ONE & get these parasites out of power before its tooo late.

      Reply
    • No guns were put to heads????
      But these mortgages were poisoned, faulty, defective, and not fit for purpose and the bank’s “experts knew this from day one”.
      And the collateral damage is in the hundreds of thousands.
      The majority of these unfortunate people only wanted
      (1) A basic comfortable home.
      And
      (2) A half decent mortgage product to purchase it with.

      What they got was ticking timbomb intentionally laced with poison.
      These booby trapped “mortgages” should be written of immediately and the mortgage holders should be compensated for the harassment that they have endured at the hans of these “government supported” criminals.

      What they have done to this country is no better than poisoning the entire water supply.
      They should be forced to face the consequences of their actions.

      Reply
  • rusty9 07/12/12 #

    I totally agree with what David Hall has been saying for the last number of years. I also agree with mass mortgage default. It galls me that the Quinn family offered to pay the State 2.8billion but that offer was thrown in their face in favour of a strategy that will cost the people of Ireland billions and that is just one situation where I can confirm that billions have been misappropriated by the Government. They have no problem in crucifying the less well off and those who are in great financial distress.

    Mass mortgage default would definitely make them sit up and think for once. Incidentally, can anyone tell me what the situation is regarding Sub Prime lenders. Is it easier or more difficult to negotiate with them?

    Reply
    • i think more difficult as we have tried

      Reply
    • #Rusty- just a reminder: the Government spends OUR money. It doesn’t come from a magical pot. If the people who borrowed the money dont pay it back, the rest of us have to. Speaking of which- re: the Quinn family, I firmly believe they should be getting more funding from the state. Specifically, the Republic should be supplying a room for each one of them and three squares a day in Mountjoy.

      Reply
    • I hear that the subprime schiesters have their contracts written up so that the homeowner has very little rights once
      they get into trouble.
      They also use the most agressive Repo lawyers in town.

      Its amazing even the likes of PTSB were in such a hurry to dish out money in the boom, that they were setting up their own subprime company called Springboard.

      Subprime lenders in some ways were the greediest Pigs in the trough with their extortionate rates.
      Some of them weren’t even regulated by the Irish Financial Regulator.

      Reply
  • I have a couple of close friend in a similar situation with the same bank.

    They get a false friendly spiel from the local branch, at the same time they getting demanding letters from HQ.
    The attitude that they get from the bank is that they would be happier to have the customer in arrears so that they can Repo the property and draw a line under it.

    This is dirty tricks
    because when Ulster Bank was asked if they would participate in the Irish Interest deferral scheme,
    they said that “Ulster Bank has similar facilities available for their customers”
    It seems that these facilities are not that similar.

    Ulster Bank has been bailed out by the British government/U.K taxpayer.
    Ulster Bank loses over a billion a year in Ireland due to their own greed and “mistakes”.
    I don’t think that the U.K. taxpayer is happy to continue with that arrangement.

    The disgusting truth is that the people who pay tens of thousands on their mortgages over the years and want to work something out with the bank will be Repossessed just as quick if not quicker than the people who pay nothing, and won’t answer the phone to them.
    Why.
    Because these people are more accesible to the bank (the bank see them as a soft touch).
    and
    The bank is under the impression that there is more equity in these properties (as the customer has been paying longer).

    Reply
  • I left Ireland to get away from the bank & a Morg I couldn’t pay. I was in trouble 6 weeks after moving in. Went on interest only with the banks blessing & still couldn’t manage. I moved to Oz for a better life & ended up hav

    Reply
  • Very good article. It took me months to get an appointment with MABS in Limerick and eventually had to go to Co. Cork for one. I submitted all the paperwork to the bank in August (all with the assistance and supervision of MABS) and they are still sending me letters telling me I am in arrears. I still pay what I can afford every month based on MABS assessment but Ulster bank is still sending me letters as if I am not even engaging with them. I din’t even get a letter of acknowledgement that they received my document which they did, again mabs have their technical team looking into this. They don’t care about us. I have no job now but I am still willing to pay what I can afford and i walk to the bank on the 1st of the month and pay them. I get 186 euro a week in total with no add ons whatsoever. I worked all my life. I am unemployed now. There is no help or assistance and i dread the bank and what they will do to me.

    Reply
  • John 08/12/12 #

    I took out a mortgage on a house in 2003 and felt happy enough with it as, the roof over my head would at least be my own. Although the house is now only worth half the price I’m still paying the same mortgage. This is unjust as the government is paying billions to bondholders and banks when in fact they should have considered using some of it to compensate people in the same situation as myself. So come on government, reduce mortgage payments to reflect on the present day house valuation.

    Reply
  • I took out a car loan 5 years ago and now my car isn’t worth half what it was. What the?? Balls, not paying a penny more on it, even though I was entirely aware the car was ridiculously overpriced at the time.

    Reply
  • There really isn’t an easy solution to this, not just because of moral hazard but because of the potential of knock on effects. The problem is not so much the people who aren’t able to pay their mortgages at the moment (and who are on breaks or interest only) but with those who are just about able to keep paying their mortgage.

    The minute there is wind of a deal for those who can’t pay their mortgages then people who are paying their mortgages will also stop paying. After all why would anybody pay their mortgage if they see people who can’t being forgiven their debt?

    I’m in the same boat as many people, negative equity and paying interest only so a deal would be great me at the moment. But If I had a full time job and was paying my mortgage I’d be pretty annoyed if I had to keep doing that while people were getting write offs for not paying.

    And while I have great respect for David Hall and the organisations that he has started, I do notice that he hasn’t made any suggestions about how this problem might be solved in a way that tries to avoid both moral hazard and the potential of mass default.

    Reply
  • Dont just stop paying take a case in th

    Reply
  • ‘The great movement is afoot’-
    ‘Stand up and be counted’.

    WARNING: when you do stand up and step forward-, don’t look back , because when the fan gets hit , you may be the only one standing. There are many people willing to load the bullets, but then hand you the gun.
    The people who start the revolution are usually the first ones to executed by the new power.

    Reply
  • I’d imagine a car loan is in someway connected to a debt. Correct me if I am wrong? What would I know? I only bought an overpriced car because everybody else was.

    Reply
    • Well aren’t you lucky everyone else doesn’t put their hand in the fire so.

      Reply
    • I may be wrong but once you pay off over half the cars value you are able to basically hand the car back without any penalty. Just walk away. Well it was for me anyway.
      Using that for mortgages the threat of everyone at once with holding off payment would be enough to get them to write some off. A fair evaluation to what the house is worth now.

      But with interest factored in, still making money, the banks have the bailout funds stacked away and continue to make profit on your interest.
      Especially those on interest only payments which the numbers are ever increasing.
      The banks were bailed out to factor in the cost of mortgage default and to pass that in to their mortgage holders but have not done so but only increased the interest rate on the loan.
      If this continues people will be handing back the keys at a fast rate. The only option is to have a write down…..the mistake would to ignore this like the government have (example priory hall, people paying negative equity mortgages on unliveable, unsafe houses…which their NOT even living in!!)
      Treat of no payment should be enough to get this government to act on debt write downs!

      Reply
  • Aah yes 20:20 hindsight vision must be great to have that.

    Reply
    • Foresight is good too. As is common sense. Do you want a 110% mortgage? Em, no thanks.

      Reply
    • Vincent bought my house in 04 new i felt it was worth the price and thankfully it still is.But i moved 15 miles from where i wanted to be,but unwilling to pay 200k for a soulless box.I think you have missed the point of what i was trying to say.This government recieved a mandate both parties to get a deal for the people,to help the indebted.You can quote hindsight/foresight whatever you like,but if as a society we confine a 100k families to the status of economic zombies in very simple terms our ecomony/country is f**ked for at least 20 years,if it only lasts that long.

      Reply
    • Good on you for being frugal Vincent.
      I’m sorry to divert the focus away from your great achievement.
      But from first hand experience its gone very much beyond that argument.
      What we have here is more on a scale with the famine.
      Thousands have committed suicide
      Hundreds of thousands of people’s lives have been destroyed
      Hundreds of thousands of native Irish people have had to emigrate
      Hundreds of thousands dont have enough money to have enough to eat.
      etc etc
      All because of the corrupt/criminal activities of a few irresponsible people, who have not been penalized in any way.
      This is criminal.
      This is fiscal cleansing.

      Reply
    • #Norman- I mean you’re right. It has to be addressed. How to do so in a fair way, I don’t know.

      Reply
    • #Gathering- just in case you’re wondering; when you compared this to the famine? That’s when your argument descended into farce. 4th highest standard of living in Europe. Fact.

      Reply
    • Thank you Vincent, i don’t like your politics,but i like your ability to see anothers point of veiw.I will add however if this government pursues the policy of imposing hardship on the poorest in society our economy will spiral downwards for generations to come.

      Reply
    • Who is arguing Vincent??
      I’m just stating the obvios from my own first hand experience with 90% of the banks that operate and that used to operate in this country.

      Reply
    • I have personally seen many people being psychologically, intimidated/tortured for up to 5 years by these banking criminals who operate freely above the laws in our country, some to the point of suicide.
      These criminal bankers and our bought out government are very aware of the damage that they inflict on these people and their families.
      Are you trying to say that they deserve that type of treatment?

      Reply
  • Ok, so people are complaining about negative equity but if you wipe it off the books, the bank will go bust as you are killing their assets. Would you bail them out again.

    Do you raise interest rates along side wiping the negative equity, so that banks will have higher reserves to combat the losses?

    This is a moral hazard minefield, and politicians have too much ability to influence what happens.

    Reply

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