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Dublin: 10 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

Column: In comparison to public sector workers in the US, Irish frontline workers are poorly paid

New recruits to frontline services in Boston can be paid three times more than what the Irish government has sought to establish as the new starting salary for public service workers. Larry Donnelly discusses the reasons for the disparity in salaries.

Larry Donnelly

THE RECENTLY NEGOTIATED Croke Park II agreement has further pain in store for all of us who work in the public sector. While commentators are right when they point out that we, at least, enjoy a greater degree of job security than private sector workers, there is no doubting that our pay packets have taken some serious hits over the past several years.

The group that may be most severely impacted by the details of the new agreement is frontline workers – including, though not limited to, gardaí, firemen and nurses. Hearing these details and taking note of the widespread anger in their ranks in the wake of Croke Park II, as well as gauging the reaction of nurses and nursing students to the just reset €22,000 starting salary for newly-qualified nurses, got me thinking about their counterparts on the frontline in my home city of Boston.

Irish-American workers

On the surface, there are strong connections between frontline workers in the two countries. Indeed, the archetypal Irish cop in the US, famously described in the oft-heard ballad, “The Streets of New York,” is not a mythical figure. Still today, substantial numbers of Boston’s policemen and women, fire fighters and nurses are Irish-Americans.

Yet to say that they inhabit two quite different worlds on opposite sides of the Atlantic is an understatement.  New recruits to An Garda Síochána earn approximately €25,000; new Boston police officers earn almost $50,000 (€38,432). New full-time firemen in Ireland earn around €25,000; new Boston fire fighters make about $60,000 (€46,118). Newly qualified nurses in Boston make two to three times what the government has sought to establish as the new starting salary for Irish nurses.

And the disparity only increases with seniority. In 2012, 50 per cent of Boston police officers and 75 per cent of Boston fire fighters made in excess of $100,000 (€76,864).  Not many earn six figure salaries here in Ireland. Experienced nurses in Boston hospitals typically make $80,000 (€61,491) and more.

Disparity in salaries – why?

Why is there such disparity between the salaries paid to frontline workers in Boston and in Ireland?  Well, as ever, context is important.

First, frontline workers in Boston are among the most well paid in the US. By some estimates, they are the best paid. That reflects the very high cost of living in the city and the northeast US more generally. Second, public employee unions are extremely powerful in Boston. Any politician who dared to suggest a single pay cut for cops or fire fighters – never mind a series of pay cuts and other changes to employment conditions as successive governments have pushed for here – would be a dead man or woman walking.

Third, frontline workers in Boston tend to work longer hours than they do in Ireland. Their high salaries are usually the result of substantial overtime. Police officers also benefit from paid “details” (ie, all public works projects and major event in the city require the presence of at least one police officer) and from undertaking further courses of study for which they receive pay increases. Fourth, it can be reasonably argued, particularly in the case of police officers, that there is a level of danger and risk that inheres in working on the frontline in a large American city that warrants better compensation.

Living costs and overtime

On the other hand, the cost of living in Ireland, and especially in Dublin where a large percentage of Ireland’s frontline workers are based, is likewise very high. And there’s no doubt that policing certain areas of Dublin and other Irish cities does present dangers. Moreover, those on the frontline in Ireland do work hard, and most would probably work additional overtime if they could. As for the strength of the unions representing frontline workers here, the days, weeks and elections ahead will tell the tale.

In the end, I can’t fully account for the extraordinary pay disparity between frontline workers in Boston and in Ireland. But I do wonder if the most painful aspect of pay cuts for Ireland’s frontline workers is their sense that these measures might somehow reflect the esteem (or lack thereof) in which they are held by society. I also wonder if the lower salaries and different conditions of employment that have resulted from the Croke Park agreements will be impediments to attracting the “best and brightest” to work on the frontline in future.

For my part, if I was one of the not insignificant number of young Irish people in possession of a US passport and I wanted a career in policing, fire protection or nursing, I’d be pricing Aer Lingus flights to Boston.

Larry Donnelly is a Law Lecturer at NUI Galway and a political columnist with IrishCentral.com.

Read: Taoiseach says Croke Park proposals do not target frontline workers>

Read: ‘I have given as much as I can’ – garda speaks out against pay cuts>

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Comments (99 Comments)

  • The great equalizer is healthcare costs. When I left the US, I was paying $800 per month for coverage. When I was employed (I’m retired now) I was paying $1,500/month. That was more than my rent, and since then it’s risen to $1650/month. That’s a big hit every month.
    But even considering that, the wages paid to Irish frontline workers is shockingly low, and politicians salaries are shockingly high.

    Reply
  • How about compairing politions earnings and the amount of them to the countries population’s

    Reply
  • Frontline workers are not ‘civil servants’ why does the Journal insist on labelling them as such. They are ‘public servants’ which is a very different thing!

    Reply
  • The Gardai are a soft target for this Government. They can’t strike, even when the indicate they may take some form of industrial action the are told they may face criminal charges! Anyone else find this outrageous in a so called free country?
    This Government will continue to hit the soft targets first and leave the big shots
    Relatively unmolested.

    Reply
  • Liam 10/03/13 #

    Members of the Irish government also have such a high level of arrogance when it comes to frontline workers, it would be nice to see the reaction of Enda and the rest of his cohorts if all of the frontline workers decided to not do work at all, maybe then it would Dawn on this government that they are making serious mistakes that are effecting the lives of so many people.

    Reply
  • Yes… The author did share a number of facts about the differnces between Boston and Ireland…. However, he didn’t add that in all of the stated American Frontline worker roles, there is a mechanism to skills and abilities. In Boston, police, nurses and the like are given yearly goals they must achieve. These goals are created together by the manager and the frontline worker. These goals often include upskilling, education, performance deficiency corrections, all in the attempt to better the department/force and the person. Pay increases are often hinged on the success of the goal, demotions can be hinged on these goals and termination can be hinged on these goals.

    I cannot give an disparaging remark against our Frontline workers… They are only working in a system that doesn’t give them the tools to soar. However, I have much to say about the managers who don’t manage, lack management skills, lack personnel skills, are paid premiums and given a job for life.

    No one in America has a job for life!

    Reply
    • I think you will find the majority of front line workers here would accept such measures. We within these services see on a daily basis money wasted through ridiculous work practices. Most importantly we see the people most of the public give out about, those within our professions who do nothing but are shielded by out of date rules.

      Bring in performance related reviews and over night these people would be forced to get up off their holes. The point I make is most of us wish to do good and make a difference please do not tar us all with the same brush as there is wasters in all lines of work

      Reply
    • Marlon
      Do you think we sit on our ass’s here and that’s it once we qualify??
      Let me tell you I have not stopped adding to my education and skills portfolio since I qualified as a general nurse in 1993, it’s required to keep up your registration but we unlike the states get no extra remuneration for it.
      I too meet with manager to discuss my performance and review where I am going professionally.

      Reply
    • Cliodhna my point exactly. .. There is no blanket system that insures that people, like yourself, are rewarded for diligence of upskilling and staying current. Though you are working hour backside off… Your colleague could be doing notbing or less and getting the same pay. What incentive and rewards are tbere for you except for your personal internal motivations? How is this fair to you? And how many managers have invested time and support to you and your career goals?

      My point is this… Our system should reward and support the hard working individuals like yourself and get rid of tbe extra weight. The management that don’t manage and tbe worker that does the minimum.

      Reply
    • @Dawn I absolutely agree. Intelligent performance review would be a great thing, but it has to be done right. For example in education you can’t compare performance of a teacher by looking at raw results (or even standardised results), one child’s potential is different to another, the success occurs where the child achieves or exceeds that potential (whatever level that may be). As regards education and upskilling the new entrant teachers now get nothing extra for getting masters or PhD. Madness! We all want the best in whatever sector we are in but it’s all about the bottom line to the government. Not too much in the news about the impact of removing substitute cover to the children in the classroom, or the massaging of the crime rates so it looks to the public these cuts aren’t having a detrimental effect on our society. We are on a race to the bottom here, someone has to make a stand. It looks like it will be public service en masse but this affects everyone.

      Reply
    • Then I apologise Marlon I miss read your original post.

      Reply
    • No worries Cloidhna… We are in a difficult place right now. Our government has an opportunity to correct a system that is obsolete. However, their inept inability and complexity of the situation means that they will flounder and kick the can further while workers like yourself suffer.

      The situation requires a long term concerted effort that can’t be fixed with one broad stroke.

      I wish you the best on your survival… Despite all the idiocy our politicians direct!

      Reply
    • Scarr 10/03/13 #

      Marlon – teachers in America have tenure after 2 years which is a job for life.

      Reply
    • Scarr… This not completly so… Each state has a different definition for tenure. For this reason each state has different requirements to get tenure and to keep it. One state may reward tenure after two years after meeting requirements and others maybe rewarded after five years. Furthermore, all tenured positions have requirements that are attached. If these requirements are not met, then a teacher can be let go or forced out. Though people often think of a te ured oosition as a job for life…. It isn’t. It is a job that you can keep till required tirement age if you abide by all rules governing the tenured position and you have not broken any laws or codes that infringes on the abilty to teach. Furthermore, a tenured position… Only means you are the last to go when the ship sinks… Provided that all points are made satisfactorily.

      Another point… In most states there are a limited number of tenured track positions. Often, the only way a ternured track oosition is offered… Is when a teacher either retires or dies. Then position is offered to someone either in line or based on politics or based on a contest of teaching accomplishments and credentials.

      So as I see it… There are too many variables that can disrupt a tenured track position.

      Reply
    • Cliodhna
      You’re talking nonsense. The only requirement to maintain your Registration with an Bord Altranais is that you are employed in a Nursing position and there is no obligation to up skill yourself in any form.

      Reply
    • @Marlon Major
      Gotta say, these are some of the most intelligent posts I’ve ever read here.
      Fair play to ya!

      Reply
    • Peter
      I have just completed two study days required by on An Bord Altranais as part of my registration to work as a Midwife, one of which I had already completed as a nurse that now doesn’t count. So perhaps you couldn’t enlighten them as to why I didn’t need to do them.

      Reply
    • Peter Daly, rubbish. Utter rubbish.

      Reply
    • censored 10/03/13 #

      Why is it rubbish?

      Reply
    • Censored – See Cliodhna’s reply!

      Reply
    • John 10/03/13 #

      Marlon, completely correct. Tenured positions in teaching in the US will soon be a thing of the past or at least very difficult to attain. A good thing in my opinion.

      Reply
    • John… Thanks for confirming. Tenure or life long positions often have more of a negative affect on an organization than a positive one. It is evidenced by our inability to control our public sector management.

      Reply
    • censored 11/03/13 #

      @James Connelly: That sounds like maintaining skills, not “upskilling”.

      Dawn nailed it. Why are PS workers not demanding this from their unions and management?

      Reply
    • Censored
      I was up skilling actually both days were adding to my skills. I have another two to do this year all adding to my skills as a midwife and required for my position. I think I’m in the best position to know what I was doing.

      Reply
    • Based on what I’ve read here is this….. Lack of communication. … It appears folks are unsure of the requirements for upskilling or maintaining skills. Maybe the two aren’t defined properly. Regardless, the issue lies with the authorities that govern nursing, midwifery and teaching… To name a few professions. Documentation and information should be easily accessible. To the point where there is complete clarity of requirements a business practice. However, sadly, the state run organization does not publish such information….. And if they do… It is a secret as to where to locate it. I wonder why is this?

      Reply
    • Censored, these study days are actually upskilling – as they add to your skills, and they are required to maintain ABA registration. Add to this, many of us require certificates which must be replaced every so often. (Case in point being ACLS certification – I require this to do my job, afterall, what good is a nurse of anaesthetics if he doesn’t have ACLS certification?!).
      I was referring to Peter Dalys comment which insisted that the only thing we require to practice nursing is ABA registration which is certainly not the case.

      Reply
    • Well put James.
      Marlon I have worked in the Perioperative setting most of my career and by and large the managers there are very aware of professional development and send you on courses ect. I moved into midwifery in 2010 and here they are even better maybe its because I’ve worked in teaching hospitals. However we don’t get performance related pay but when everyone is at the same standard it’s ok maybe it’s because I have always worked in specialist areas.

      Reply
  • Good article boston hear we come

    Reply
  • there are lots of reasons the US is broke, such as multiple wars, low taxes on high earners, etc. their public service pay policy is low on the lost..

    Reply
  • Good to see that the American police have good unions . The GRA are a terrible organisation . They do not represent their members well at all ! They are obviously “in with” Garda management and hense nothing ever gets completed. They do not possess the balls to take on garda management ! The GRA is a Junket of an organisation . A friend of mine in the force told me that they spend €300,000 year on a “conference” in some hotel where they wine and dine and free golf for all the committee members ! This money is the paid for by weekly subscriptions by the ordinary Garda – not very fair at all ! !
    Get the finger out and represent your members properly ! Imagine the government telling Gardai that if they don’t “volunteer” to work on their days off , that they will be guilty of a Criminal offence ! Bring on the blue flu that day ! !

    Reply
    • And who would arrest that criminal to press the charges! Ha.

      Reply
    • In fairness the GRA are no different then to SIPTU, UNITE, etc.

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    • “Dylan Dublin” … Let’s see “wrong, wrong, wrong …. And wrong”
      from ur comments it’s hard to make out that ur not a Garda or that u are… If you’re not a garda which seems to b the situation then a lot of that stuff you talk about isn’t your call to make. Especially about any actions individual members take re pay… The GRA took immediate action which was their delegation at the briefings withdrew and stated they would not be attending anymore unless directed otherwise by members. They awaited a meeting of exec who ratified this. A campaign of action started which all were told would “increase incrementally “. GRA are only group in all public sector who started this and others have followed. Because all were in Croke Park 1 the government were given a chance to abide by it and to retract the decision to breach Croke park1 by cuts. Croke park1 might b voted upon to b extended for other unions whose majority memberships ate either private sector or are public sector who don’t work unsocial shift work. GRA commenced the legitimate actions of withdrawal of good will which was just a signal. GRA “placard protested” at the offices where the talks were ongoing. Members decided to increase and add to the actions and that has kicked in. There is no point in members being forced at this point to take a particular action … The other actions will have a significant effect when a lot of them have kicked in together ….(continuation to follow ====>

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    • A friend of mine told me they spend €300,001 euro each year. Get your facts right in future please. :-).

      Reply
    • I don’t know where you get the wording
      “If don’t volunteer to work on days off they will be committing offence”…. They are not being compelled “to volunteer”. They r being compelled to work. Commissioner has power to regulate AGS and has always had the right to order/direct. GRA are continuously pointing this out as one of reasons that Gardai deserve more pay, rather than cuts to pay.. GRA pointed out that members were subject to transfer such as border for foot & mouth and BSE , all because there wouldn’t b enough manpower to cover. This situation is similar, not enough manpower to cover as members adopted policy not to volunteer for overtime. It was foreseen that management would have to compel persons on rest days. Our regulations have always been that members on rest days are the first call re overtime.
      Members being compelled means “cancellation of rest days and they have to bring in ALL rest members. Not just the numbers they need to police. And those members have to be given a full shift (8 hours on Sunday, or 10 hours Monday if cancelled rest day). This will cost extra and is to signal to the dept concerned that you need full co-operation with all individual Gardai or the system isn’t workable and will cost more than the cuts you make. members will b hitting back with every opportunity to point out that you can’t expect Gardai to put their safety and lives on the line and then through cuts attack their family, their homes, their children’s futures

      Reply
    • @John
      Don’t bother. He’s clearly baiting you.

      Reply
    • Michael. Ya, thanks.. sure I havta keep that always in mind. That’s why in the scheme of life I tackle the ball and not the man…. My comments would normally be unprintable for a lot of the drivel or legally actionable material that gets spouted online…. Gardai – as in the ordinary men and women…not the GRA or AGSI or anyone but the individual members are getting the message out there that you can stop taking them for granted, you can stop kicking them when they’re down and parading yourselves with drawn faces and buckets of sympathy when our members are hospitalised or killed …. That’s no consolation to their families …. I’m sad to say it but you will see I mentioned it in an article last September and it will continue while Gardai are cut to the bone re spending… And gangs will get braver.. BUT … The next guard who is maimed or killed is on all of your heads …. So don’t turn on the droll faces and the sympathy tap.. Gardai who place themselves in danger, and over the years who tackle mobs that are superior in numbers, who are bricked, bottled and petrol bombed deserve better…. Shame on the whole miserable lot of you – Our members and other public sector workers have contacted you democratically elected reps and got back party political answers or answers but with no action…. Ye are sticking to the herd and hiding in the herd of the individual parties ….. This will not help you one bit or absolve you. Morale is below rock bottom and at breaking point.

      Reply
    • The fact that senior members of An Garda Siochana, i.e. Superintendents, Chief Superintendents, Deputy Commissioners, Assistant Commissioners and the Commissioner himself are all POLITICAL appointments, and has nothing at all to do with performance means that our police force is influenced by politics. Is it any wonder that when ordinary members of the force have legitimate complaints about their own safety and pay conditions that Garda management will NEVER back their own people but will ALWAYS back the Government side even when the regime in place is corrupt and elitist as is the case right now!

      Reply
  • I’m sorry but the author doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The salaries for the American cops and firefighters he’s talking about have nothing to do with reality. Just google and you will find out that the average salary for the cop is $56K (or EUR 43K); the avg salary for the firefighter is $48K (EUR 37K). The other point is that in the US the cops make more money than firefighters – not the other way around. Please do your research before publishing an article. Massaging numbers to prove your point, what a great idea…

    Reply
  • Um… you realise that you can make this comparison for *every* job, public or private? A software engineer earning €40k here would earn well over $100,000 in the U.S.
    Naive U.S. wage comparisons don’t provide any justification for raising public sector wages (just as they held no argument when I worked for a U.S. multinational)

    Reply
    • Is that what they told you?

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    • mcbab 10/03/13 #

      It depends what part of the US you live in as to what your salary will be. It varies hugely. Stupid to make comparisons with Boston.

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    • Your right. It’s a silly comparison. We should compare how tough jobs are in this country. Compare a guards / fire / nurse / prison officer to a soft ware engineers Job ! Do they work in dangerous conditions as the norm ?! Middle of the night under extreme pressure ? Going in to a fire ? Facing a gun ? Attacked by a prisoner ? Washing what’s left of a car accident victim of your boots ? Stabbed with a syringe ? We should be paid a proper wage based on this alone. Some of my colleagues already can’t pay their mortgage. So it’s my opinion that we should be paid more than that software programmer. Security of employment ? Just because the private sector treats its workers like shit and sacks them on a whim , is no good argument against our security of employment. You need better protection. Come up to our standards don’t drag us down to yours. Your just being a mouth piece for unscrupulous employers. They would have you and me working for nothing and make huge profits for themselves. P

      Reply
  • Interestingly they have higher paid service people, yet they have a terrible healthcare, education and crime rate problem.

    Is the solution more taxes and more government? Isn’t that the definition of madness?

    I don’t think the comparison is fair. The USA is broke and this is part of it. At least we recognise our problems and are making the system solvent for the future.

    Reply
    • And before the personal attacks start, I’m not affiliated with any party.

      The ad hominem card is played all the time on these comments.

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    • Youre dead right Michael we should only compare our frontline services to countries who pay less.

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    • Come on Vinny you’re better than that. Refute the point with some guile, will ya?

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    • They may be struggling financially but they recognise that the worst thing to cut in a recession is your ability to provide a frontline service.

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    • At the same time as making the incumbents of these positions insolvent. These pay cuts are going to put me and thousands of frontline staff who took on mortgages in good faith, based on current and projected future earnings into the red. Hows that going to save the economy? 14% + 8%= Too much.

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    • @ Davey, I agree. Many forget that is certain frontline workers, Gardai, become insolvent they are actually dismissed from their jobs.

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    • Interesting to see how the author has quoted a starting salary for an Irish nurse – exclusive of overtime. Then quotes the Boston rates – inclusive if MASSIVE overtime.

      He does point it out, but it is disingenuous of him to do so in the first place.

      He also says he cannot account for the disparity I. Pay between here and there. Has he not read what he has published ? Seriously?

      Does Boston owe per capita what we Irish have been saddled with?

      Does Boston spend more than it takes in from taxes?

      Reply
    • As we all embrace a McDonald’s type of public service; The Big Mac or a cheap double cheeseburger, I find the who economic debate on public service pay immature.

      Firstly working with people in certain situations is extremely stressful. People are cruel, generally selfish and very dangerous towards each other. We talk about the social contract undo inning our society and we give this to politicians. Yet they are willing, with our mandate, to cut allowances for children, Carers and the disabled. Yes we could argue that we as a society don’t have to fund such luxuries but same parts of life ain’t a luxury nor are they are burden but neither are they an ‘algorithm of need’, where we can formulate a financial response and be done with it.

      Secondly Pay; well this week the government ministers all hit the two year mark and get a ministerial pension for life. Two years for a Golden Pension and the best they could come up with, was follow a Northern European Model of cut budgets!

      Next time you need a public service remember, you get what your vote and pay for; in the mandate you give politicians, the public service you expect and societal standards you hope for. I can assure you we are closer to that double cheeseburger than the Big Mac!

      Reply
    • @Sean Beag – no the US will not cut the police by much – if any . They need the Police to control riots etc – . What they cut is Medicare , social welfare – and food stamps . Neraly 60 million US citizens are now on food stamps – and this is the economic model we follow . They are broke – and broke bad . They just keep printing money – and borrowing from China .

      Reply
    • John 10/03/13 #

      I live on Long Island in a pleasant suburban area about 65 miles east of Manhattan. The cost of living is very comparable to the Boston area and police, nurses and other front line workers earn excellent salaries, along with benefits including guaranteed pensions worth 2/3 of final salary and full family health coverage. My net property taxes are a little over $7000 per year, very high compared to what people will pay in Ireland but about average here. In my previous house which was larger and newer I was paying nearly $11,000.
      However my state and federal income taxes are lower than in Ireland and I actually get value for my property taxes. About 70% goes to the local school district which is highly rated, sending over 90% of kids to third level. This in turn helps property values so, when I eventually sell, my home will be desirable for families with young kids. Crime rates are low and the police and other emergency services respond very quickly when called. I’ve never had my car, house or office burgled in 22 years on the island. The highway dept. does a decent job maintaining local roads and if I’m not happy I can vote out the highway Superintendent. Fire service is excellent but If I’m not satisfied I also get the opportunity to vote out the fire commissioner. It’s not perfect by any means and I’d love if my taxes were lower but it’s worth it to live in a safe, secure, well maintained and well policed environment.

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    • John 10/03/13 #

      Sorry, some weak generalizations there that need to be refuted.
      Health care in the US is the best in the world if you have good coverage or can afford it. Obamacare will make it available to many more. The vast majority of the top 100 universities in the world are in the US and overall crime rates are low despite black spots in places like Chicago, Detroit, Newark etc.

      Reply
    • Exelent comment

      Reply
    • Denito 11/03/13 #

      So, John, you are well off and live in a very well-off area of the US which is, therefore “safe, secure, well maintained and well policed”.

      Good for you, but it’s hard to see the relevance of your remarks to the overall picture of the US in terms of access to healthcare, educational outcomes (particularly among the poor) and rate of violent crime and homicide.

      Reply
    • censored 11/03/13 #

      John painted a picture that accurately reflects life in most of the US. You’re just looking for the bad spots so you can prove your “point” with bad data.

      Reply
  • Orla B 10/03/13 #

    Seems totally random to compare salaries of a handful of professions in two different countries without a detailed analysis of all the variables e.g. the efficiency of those organisations, average hours in a working week etc etc

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  • @John Parker !

    Ohhh – you fail to mention in your article that you are President of the GRA –

    Try not to mislead people ! !

    No – I ain’t a guard ! Family member is !

    What else do the GRA do the rest of the year round ! ! Get out of your tower once in a blue moon and meet with your members because your reps are not bringing the full story to the “cc” – or else they are and you ignoring it ! !

    Do something for your members – step up to the mark ! Upto now the GRA aren’t worth anything – make it change ! ! If its possible , or that cronyism is too deep rooted up in that tower ! !

    Reply
    • Dylan Dublin, I am not hiding behind any facade. That is my face. That is my actual name. My twitter account states my GRA background in full. When I replied to you do I not state “the GRA” …. I don’t think that anyone can say that on my replies in the journal I have hidden my name behind a made up name or that I don’t in my responses fight the corner of the ordinary man and woman… Everyone that knows will tell you – I am not married to the organisation, I am an elected rep who has to put himself before his peers every 4 years. I an welfare based, if i didnt take this route I would have applied to be a Garda Employee Assistance Officer/welfare officer. I have qualified in Sgts exams long time ago and could go down that route. People will acknowledge I would have no problem being promoted. Maybe I’m nuts, or misguided but I get more satisfaction out of solving things and trying to assist members than I ever would out of “the job”.
      I took on the presidency knowing that it will be a tough two years, that it would be a thankless job and that at the end of the 2 years it will have had the possibility of my name and my character torn apart… My day mainly begins before 5am re travelling & often ends at 2am answering online. I was advised by friends not to take on the challenge of Presidency at this time, go for it when things are on the upturn. But someone has to do it. I have immeasurable respect for the reps at district & div level, I’ve seen the frustrations at that level

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    • Dylan Dublin, in my spare time like today, on my rostered day off, when I’m with my mother re mothers day I answer these because people don’t understand the campaign against cuts or the strategy. And I don’t fault you one bit for calling things the way U perceive them….. The GRA are dealing with this in an incremental manner. Ordinary members of their own accord and not prompted by GRA or AGSI have stated their TOTAL opposition to cuts….. Members of unions (especially SIPTU, IMPACT , INTO ) should vote against the LRC proposals …. there is a lot more than just the cuts hidden in the LRC document…. Section 2.29 is one I frequently quote which permits further pay/allowances cuts… I say this to Members of those unions who have any friends who are Gardai, nurses, firefighters, paramedics or friends who are behind the scenes in public sector in jobs that work nights or weekends – if you have any respect or concern for them then please vote against these cuts

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  • This article is typical of the false equivalency and pervasive negativity that is rife in Irish media.

    Firstly, the headline is pretty explicit that the article pertains to the US, and not merely a city within that country as becomes apparent in the opening lines. I’m guessing the idea being to give the reader the impression that the US,as a whole, reflects the argument being made in the article to strengthen that argument. Which is obviously nonsense but is an effective tool(probably an editorial choice to be fair to the author).

    As for the comparison, what is really the point? Seriously. In the interests of a bit of balance and perspective here is a link to the harsh realities that other police forces in the states must endure when there is no money in the treasury: http://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166658788/crime-ridden-camden-to-dump-city-police-force

    I’m not saying that we should follow this model but presenting “the grass is greener” argument, as the author has in this case, is not really an argument at all.

    I want our front line to be paid fairly, however I’m still struggling to decipher what articles like this can add to the discourse, except maybe false impressions and realities.

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  • Benchmarking: Lets have both parts this time!

    1. Qualitative Benchmarking: Compare public service job with comparable job in other countries or private sector companies.
    2. Quantitative Benchmarking: Compare how many in the job per 100,000 population in other countries or comparable private sector functions.

    We forgot to adjust for part 2 the last time! …….. good at math …. bad at sums!

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  • And the us salaries are now unsustainable for the taxpayer.

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    • What is unstainable to US taxpayer is cost of running the War Machine – which entails massive borrwoing from China . there are now a near uncounable number of Law enforcment / security agencies in US . They are needed for war – and surveliance of the population .
      Also what is unsustainable is the amount of Bank Fraud – and the tax dodging – . We have some of these problems too !!!.
      The US is to an extent caught with its war machine – which basically it does not need – if it was cut by 80% it would still be biggest army on planet – and now with the use of drones to kill people – cost are indeed being cut- is this not wonderful .
      . But the war machine is a huge employer – and that is a big problem -.
      the US at moment borrows over 3 billion $ / day .

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    • Teacher and police salaries are paid on a local level not on the federal level. The war has nothing to do with my local property taxes out of which are our local county governments not federal government. The only way it effects us is that federal aid for schools and police are cut and if it wasn’t that there salaries were too high the local governments wouldn’t be looking for aide.

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  • It might have something to do with the fact that Ireland is bankrupt the USA is not.

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