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Dublin: 19 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Column: 10 problems with the Croke Park Agreement

The Croke Park Agreement is too slow, driven by insiders and makes cuts in the wrong places, writes management expert Eddie Molloy.

Eddie Molloy

THE CROKE PARK Agreement (CPA) was  ratified by a sufficient number of trade unions in June 2010 to enable  the deal to come into effect.  In return for  a guarantee that  there would be no compulsory redundancies and no further pay cuts,  public servants would cooperate with  a wide-ranging programme of reform, involving new work practices, new rosters, redeployment and the like.  The Agreement extends to 2014, but no one can say when in 2014.

To date there have been several significant  reforms delivered under the auspices of the CPA – for example new garda rosters, and redeployment of hundreds of staff to new workplaces up to distances of 45 miles.  Payroll savings have been made, though the precise amount is disputed. Regular reports from the  Department of Public Expenditure and Reform  and from the Croke Park Implementation body set out the achievements.

While acknowledging these achievements, I have several concerns about the agreement itself and the way it is being worked.

1. Ring-fencing pay and pensions

By ring-fencing pay and pensions – which in the areas of health and education, for example, constitute up to 70 per cent of total costs – the government is forced to find the necessary savings from the remainder. So for example, in round figures the health budget is €13billion. Over €9billion goes on pay. The minister has to reduce his costs by €1billion, which then has to come from the remaining €4billion. He is left with no option but to cut services. In education when Ruairi Quinn was confronted by the teaching unions about paying new teachers 20 per cent less than the incumbents, he pointed told them:  ‘Yes, and that is a consequence of you insisting on the terms of the Croke Park deal’.

2. Cuts both high and low earners

The CPA is unfair to people who are covered by the deal  and those who are not.  It  covers public servants who are on relatively low pay and, at the other end of the spectrum, medical consultant-professors  who are on close to  quarter of a million euro, plus their private earnings.

3. Clause 1.28

Clause 1.28 of the Agreement states that the the deal holds provided there is no “unforeseen budgetary deterioration” during the term of the agreement. At the time – June 2010 – growth was forecast at 3.25 per cent. It is now less than 0.5 per cent. Also we have tens of thousands more people on the dole and in receipt of medical cards, thereby driving social protection costs way up above what was forecast. The government has every legitimate reason to invoke this ‘inability to pay’ clause. If you think about it, this clause is there to protect  the rest of us who are not covered by the CPA from picking up the tab if the government cannot meet its Troika targets. The government seems to forget that it is not just an employer of 300,000 public servants, but the government of 5,000,000 citizens.

4. Only option is to cut services

In order to meet the Troika’s budgetary targets, and with public service pay and pensions untouchable, the government has to find the money elsewhere. Essentially they have found it by cutting services – such as closing hospital wards, closing heritage sites at the height of the tourist season, and cutting jobs among  groups who are not as well organised as the big public service battalions – for example home helps, or special needs assistants in schools.

5. Deadline

Multi-billion savings could be made in public services without damaging the quality of services, but it takes time and sophisticated management skills. Much of the work to be done in this regard has been expertly mapped out by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. But the government is under fierce time pressure to deliver the budgetary targets set by the Troika and there is a huge management deficit right down through the chain of command in large parts of the public service. The result was well put by Ming Flanagan: “It is like you are on Weight Watchers and you have targets to meet by a certain date. Then as the deadline approaches and you realise you are not going to meet the targets… you cut off your arm and  say ‘See, I have met my targets.’”

6. Insiders

The negotiations that take place under the auspices of the implementation body essentially involve insiders negotiating with insiders and the result is some very soft deals.  For example, after exhausting the IR machinery of the State, a deal was struck to increase the working week of local government staff from 32 to 34 hours. Imagine if representatives of ISME were at the table who have to pay rate increases? Or, for that matter, members of the public who are struggling to pay the household charge.

7. Redundancies

Trade unions and the government repeat that they are interested in jobs, jobs, jobs… If they really were interested in jobs they would not be ‘cutting off their arm’ in letting thousands of public servants go in an unplanned way, with all its collateral damage. They would reduce pay and slow down the exodus, thereby giving time to bring about the reforms in a more rational way. As I say, it can be done, but it takes time. The cutting of Special Needs Assistants is another example of  ‘our members interests first, and jobs second’.

8. Too slow

The pace of change has been far too slow.  For nearly two years, government ministers, Kieran Mulvey of the Labour Relations Commission and many others have castigated managers and departments for not coming forward with plans for savings. Just last week the Taoiseach upped the ante urging managers to “squeeze more saving out of Croke Park” as a matter of urgency. Yet so far, while uttering these statements, not a single department or manager has been named as being tardy. There are no consequences for non-delivery.

9. Entitlement

The Croke Park Agreement was entered into by a government that was under enormous  fiscal pressure. The agreement continues unbroken the narrative that public servants are “entitled” to all they have, and that they will be justified in taking industrial action if the Agreement is touched.

10. Changes overdue

The great irony is that all the reforms that are being secured under the CPA were already paid for in 2003 by benchmarking, but never delivered. Changes in Garda rosters, which are indeed a success, hadn’t changed for 50 years.  The reforms amount to no more than long overdue modernisation.

Eddie Molloy is the director of  of Advanced Organisation, as well as a consultant in strategy, change management and innovation. Over the last thirty years, Eddie has gained an unrivalled reputation for helping both indigenous and multi-national companies develop and execute their change and growth strategies. His is widely recognised as a thought leader with a record of success in the areas of strategy, structure, change and innovation.

This entry was amended on Oct 31 to clarify a statement made in relation to Central Bank staff, their working hours and pensions.

Column: Irish labour costs making us uncompetitive? Hardly>

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Comments (136 Comments)

  • If the Government really want to tackle pay, allowances and efficiencies let them cut their own obscene pay and expenses and allowances and perks and gravy train tickets. There are too many of them being paid too much to do too little out of the public purse.

    Reply
    • tom 24/10/12 #

      agree the entirety of the public sector including government councils and semi state must all share the burden instead of watching kids go hungry to maintain their standard of living

      Reply
    • Si help me clarify something before i accused of beilg a public service hater. Can I not separate or distinguish the very well paid civil servants as opposed to the those who are getting a normal wage. See thats the problem. What wage are we talking about? I would say (and will probably get devoured) that anyone over 60 grand a year as a nurse a guard or a teacher is on good pay. And before disagree remember we are in a recession. Now that is one argument and no doubt those on those wages will say oh why not cut td’s and ministers pay and benefits and rightly so. But cutting td’s pay is another issue and yes it should be done but how does this issue get those off the hook on good wages. As another commentator said the vast majority of people here wiold not countenance cuts to frontline staff and rightly so but its the managers and bureaucrats and pen pushers that are obscuring you frontline people. Then people say oh hit the public service and I have said that too in comments but in fairness I would not hit nurses guards and teachers only those on very high wages which are probably very little so while people think anyone who is not a public servant wants to target and blame them it is not true. If I say the public service is over paid and not value for money i am taking about the waste and as far as i can see the waste is not paying teachers nurses guards and frontline staff it is the bureaucrats.

      Reply
    • don’t know what the hell happened the spellings. Apologies to readers.

      Reply
  • The problem is our hard working and deserving front line public servants (Garda Teachers Nurses etc) are protected by the same agreement as the person on €64k a year for inputting invoices because of a department move which meant their pay couldn’t be reduced despite their workload being reduced ( this is a real situation I witnessed first hand). Admittedly there aren’t that many public servants in this over paid situation, but a saving of €64k per annum would be better than nothing. They need to be able to reduce the pay of people who change department or work load accordingly just as would happen in the private sector.

    Reply
  • The front line hard working staff are very much appreciated by the private sector. But the fat cat salaries, disproportionate expenses are protected by the CPA. Allow true reform, stop protecting everyone !!!!!

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  • I am a Secondary teacher. I have taken four pay cuts and one incremental deferment before CPA. I am payed for a 22-hour week, work an extra 33 hours per year under the CPA, am in school before 8.30 every day and do not leave before 5.30 most days (45 hours per week in school). I correct/plan in the evenings & weekends. As a separated father of two I pay 1/3 of my salary in maintenance, pay all my taxes & am struggling each week to keep my head above water financially. I counsel students, advise & encourage whenever possible, absorb their angst/rage/frustrations regularly. I don’t agree with the CPA ring fencing my pay/securing my job at the expense of new teachers coming in & placing a larger fiscal obligation on the rest of society. BUT – just like the nurses & Gardai – if CPA is broken I know I will suffer more than the Principals pay or the Inspector in an office far removed from a classroom; the pen pushers in HSE middle management who have never cleaned up sick or spoken a comforting word to a dying patient. I will be the first target in the crosshairs as the Government desperately search for more victims to throw overboard the sinking ship in deference to the Bankers/Troika who continue to strip the wood from the bow to feed their fire in the hull. This is a failed Government for more than just the CPA!

    Reply
    • tom 24/10/12 #

      I can see you believe with passion what you say but you are living in a bubble and can’t relate to hardship in the private sector or those relying on welfare.

      The public sector have a culture of entilement believing they work hard and have a more difficult job than anyone else but the reality is so different !

      Reply
    • Well said Michael

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    • Michael, maybe you should bring this up with your union. They are the ones protecting ALL public sector workers, including the overstaffed admins,and under-worked high earners and middle managements…
      When the Public Sector workers all hide behind you and the other front line people, it should make you as angry as it makes us…

      Reply
    • ISBA 24/10/12 #

      Very pertinently put. It shows the crude thinking that went into Croke Park and you are right, the problem is the pen pusher brigade especially in the HSE

      Reply
    • @tom; I would be better off on the dole. & I would have more time to pick fault in other occupations I know nothing about. If everybody believes teaching is such a cushy job why didn’t they apply to do the H. Dip? Most parents can’t even deal with their own teenagers let alone 30 of other peoples!

      @Darren; I have vehemently opposed my Union’s ‘stagnation-is-better-than-adaptation’ approach to the fiscal crisis. I have personally rang Pat King to oppose & personally voted against the CPA but I am only one voice. I will continue to passionately do my job in the face of derision from the private sector but warn that if you think teachers are bad now – continue the disparity in pay, and observe the substandard type of person the teaching profession will attract in the future. You may as well burn the oars also from your sinking ship…

      Reply
    • That is our point exactly Michael… if I talk out against the CPA, or the crazy salaries of management and admins in the Public Sector, I am somehow anti-teacher, anti-nurse, anti-guard.. etc.
      I think YOUR pay is too low (IF you are a good teacher.. I had a few bad ones too!)… Currently in this country, our welfare spend eclipses our education spend, that is crazy… we need great teachers in our schools.. we need to attracted talented and passionate people to teaching… and the best teachers should be rewarded…
      Now, how is that position of objection to you and the other in the Public Sector?
      200,000 staff in the Public Sector are NOT front line… let’s at least see what can be done there.

      Reply
    • tom 24/10/12 #

      Michael
      I’m self-employed and if you belive your so highly skilled and undervalued your more than welcome to joint the private sector and earn the market rate based on what others think your worth and demand for your skills.

      but that’s something we both know won’t happen.

      Reply
  • Mjhint 24/10/12 #

    As a private sector member & a former self employed person & one that thought the public sector has it too easy, I have since changed my mind. I believe the public sector is unsustainable because of its cost but bashing people in the public sector is disrespectful & futile. We are asking politicians to attack & cut ordinary workers in the public sector who as such have had the same problems as the private. This is becoming a linch mob & as such is not addressing the big issue of cost. I think a more mature debate & not bashing either side & making the politicians do whats necessary to combat the costs. We start at the top of the pile with politicians pay & senior civil servants pay & cut them. People earning over a 100k in this administration should be scrutinised. Then at least if we see a genuine effort going on in this area & its still not enough the rest of us will just have to face the fact that we all have to pay more. Everything should be on the table public private sectors croke park the whole lot. This public sector bashing is a good distraction for the politics. We have lost our focus thats why we are in trouble. We cant see the problem.

    Reply
  • WHY CANT THE GOV. START WITH THEM SELFS FIRSTLY BY GIVING UP ALL THE ALLOWENCES AND EXTRA PAYMENTS AND THEN BY GETTING RID OF ALL ADVISERS AND DOING THE JOB THEY WERE MENT TO DO THEMSELFS

    Reply
    • Exactly,sure any pleb on the street cud be acgovt minister with all the advisors they have!!!!

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    • A TD gets nearly the same pay (including allowances and expenses) as the president of the US and then we have ministers getting paid more who can’t even tell ya what they’re thinking or doing without shoving a load of our cash into Terry Prones pockets so she can give us her BS version of events. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so shameful!

      Reply
    • @ Angela
      For the one simple reason. Have you ever seen shite flow uphill?? No.
      It always flows downhill with minimal affect for those at the top whilst the ordinary joes at the bottom, who the rats in the Dáil swore to protect and fight for, drown in all of the shite!!

      Reply
    • @ Angela
      For the one simple reason. Have you ever seen shite flow uphill?? No.
      It always flows downhill with minimal affect for those at the top whilst the ordinary joes at the bottom, who the rats in the Dáil swore to protect and fight for, drown in all of the shite!!

      Reply
    • see angela the problem with emphasising that comment is this. You appear to deflecting away form the well paid in your own profession and pointing to td’s. Yes TD’s are an issue but he main issue here is the highly paid public servants which are usually the bureaucrats and not frontline staff.

      Reply
    • sorry capitals were a mistake wasnt watching as i typed as for my well paid reofession im a house wife ….so doubt many of us are well paid at the moment but i really think that all their advisers should be sacked and then see how they manage , their over paid under worked condesending pepole who do not live in the real world , half of what they say is wrote down for them pr and all the rest its a con

      Reply
  • I would agree but the mangers or civil servants who are leading this change are the very employees who it will affect so there is going to be significant change achieved until this is taken out of there hands

    Reply
  • I’m a public sector worker, but I’m not in an office. I’m also ex private sector. When will people realise that this public versus private thing isn’t working? At the moment I’m paying 62% in stoppages when everything is factored in. I don’t know what the private sector pays, but I’m sure you’re getting screwed too. It’s certainly not a good time to be a PAYE worker, in ANY sector. I work as a Paramedic, and we don’t get dinner breaks, we eat between calls, a lot of times from service stations. We don’t get subsistance if we are within 3 miles of our base, but a TD gets €62 per day FOR TURNING UP!!!

    Want to know what I think? I think that if EVERYBODY paid a fair share of tax, only a FAIR share, then the PAYE worker wouldn’t get shafted to the extent we are. When all the big earners stop hiding huge amounts of cash, and stop moving money around the place things would be a lot better. It was on TV3 this morning, TDs get FREE accountancy consultations so they can maximize the amount of money they can get tax free. Isn’t that a great example to the PAYE worker? Bono wants to save the world, but moves millions out of the country to save paying tax. Good man Bono. Plus many, many more like him.

    Lads and ladies, this isn’t about Public v Private…….it’s about PAYE v the big boys.

    Reply
  • When I joined the Job it was the beginning of the Celtic Tiger. People laughed at my decision telling me that I was mad. That I was working for peanuts and I could earn 3 times as much if I stayed in the private sector. And as the years rolled by and they were living it large on nice big wages I would still get the odd comment about why was I still putting up with shitty wages and conditions.
    Then the bubble burst. At first people were in shock. Then the after a time those self same people that originally laughed at my decision looked at me with different eyes. It was you public servants with your big pay and great conditions. In the space of a few years we went from fools working for peanuts to demons raping the economy.
    I am a front line worker. I go to work with the knowledge that today I could be seriously assaulted. But I still go.
    Countless times I have heard the words I wouldn’t do your job. You don’t get paid enough. And you couldn’t pay me enough to do it. But yet many of you here would be happy to cut my pay and conditions. But you wouldn’t do my job.

    Reply
    • Lord… for the fourth time now… no one wants to cut front line pay!
      Bloated admin staff, middle management doing the square root of f*ck all.. all day long.. and getting increments for it too.. This is what we want addressed.
      And why is it that every Public sector worker online is a ‘front line worker’??

      Reply
    • Darren I don’t think they’re listening to you :-) I totally agree with you. Why can’t the government separate front line workers from admin? Mick I totally understand people saying they could never do your job, I know I couldn’t, it takes a very strong individual to do what you guys do and I commend you. You’re salaries are not enough in my opinion for what you do. But do you not agree that there is wastage in the background services in the public service? Do you not think that a person being paid €64K a year to input invoices is too much? While you guys are out risking your life for sometimes less than this! Personally I think it’s madness. The solution is not cutting salaries in the public service, it’s cutting out waste, just as the private sector is. Protect our front line staff by cutting the wastage.

      Reply
    • @darren. Do you speak for the whole country. If so who put you in charge.

      Reply
    • Ahh.. David.. are you one of the admins/middle management?
      I am speaking for myself, and pretty much everyone I know…

      Reply
    • No Darren. Just a lowly minion. It’s just when I read you say “no one, us, and we” I assume that you are speaking for everyone. I thought you were given a mandate from the people to tell all that no one can say any different to you.

      After reading a few of your posts you appear to be some form of authority this is why I ask. Also I gave no reason for you to assume I am management which I am not. It only serves your cause to put down any opinion other than your own. I just feel privileged that your kind enough to share your insight

      Reply
  • Instead if of just reaching for the stock answer of its an “attack on public sector workers”, can we have some rational rebuttals to his points please! I would love to see reasoned debate rather emotive responses!

    Reply
  • Last paragraph of article says that the Guards new roster is working well? I wouldn’t agree. Knowing a few guards who tell me they work ten days in a row with a ten hour shift each day before they get a rest day off work again. They must be frazzled by the last day of that shift, kept awake by stress and red bull. I give a big salute to all those hard working guards nurses and teachers.

    Reply
  • When does all the stories on the public sector worker become harassment. It is nearly every day I see some story on public sector worker bashing.

    Just wondering.

    Reply
  • More mindless ideology from the neoliberal camp. They are so brainwashed they can’t or won’t see that austerity isn’t working. Another pay cut for public servants is effectively laying them off economically . Most are already not able to spend

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  • Well said, Michael. The very words ‘management expert’ make me want to throw up. These people are power’s boot boys, nothing more.

    Reply
  • “The public sector” a split level organisation, on the bottom of the heap you have the guards, nurses, prison officers, and low level teachers. All have had their pay hacked at like the texas chainsaw massacare. The are proberly youngish with small families to feed and mortgages to pay with tough jobs.
    On the other hand you have the real public sector that I believe people have an issue with. Those retired teachers on a huge pension, sub-ing, correcting papers etc. People in offices up and down the country pushing paper that are a complete waste of space and money, no one knows their job purpose, what about the post office workers in Dublin who boasted about the fact the po couldn’t get rid of them and had no jobs for them so they read the paper everyday. There is a complete mass of these workers that are completely excess to requirements. Once upon a time I was a public sector worker and part of a union, alot of times I was embarrassed to be so. Now I am a lowly office worker in the private sector and my husband just started a new job after being un-employed for over 12 months. I know we are better off than a lot of those front line public sector workers now and feel empathy towards them but as for the rest of the waster, I say slash slash slash. The day of consultants earning 250K PLUS there own private practice is no longer affordable or morally acceptable when you have families in such dire circumstances.

    Reply
    • Bloody well said! I wish people could differentiate between me, on crap take home wages, and the big boys on €100k+. I do my best in the job and this constant PS bashing really wears a bit thin when we are ALL struggling, lower paid PS and the private sector. I hope you husband gets on well in the new job too! :)

      Reply
  • nobody wanted a public service job in the boom.us nurses just kept our heads down and worked away whilst the plebs talked about their three holidays a year.tough about the moaners.we have taken enough pay cuts now and we will vacate all hospitals and see who will do the nursing then.NO MORE EMERGENCY COVER WHILST STRIKING

    Reply
    • That sounds compassionate MIchael.. Nothing makes your point better than letting a few people die in agony huh?!
      And for the THIRD time, no one is saying nurses pay should be cut (or teachers, or fireman etc…) just the pay/jobs of the needless admins and middle management, 200,000 of them, with crazy salaries (increments??.. christ what a joke)..
      If the public sector workers actually stopped screaming once someone tried to engage them in rational talk rather than hide behind front line staff… maybe we would be in a better place?

      Reply
    • Damocles 24/10/12 #

      It’s almost as if this entire “debate” was predicted.

      Reply
  • It starts at the top how can Enda Kenny face Angela Merkel asking her to get German workers to pay for our incompetence and greed while he is paid more than safe is.She runs the economic powerhouse of Europe,population 79million.Enda runs a bankrupt state with a population the size of Manchester.

    Reply
  • With a current budget deficit of €25 BILLION, we will simply run out of money to continue the current public sector salary levels.

    Reply
    • If only Enda, I’m sure the senior civil service will find a way to get their full salary, cut anything lower and cancel services for the public before they’re willing to renegotiate.

      Reply
    • It’s not the pay levels rather the number of staff on the pay role, way too many departments organisations quangos councils etc.

      I’d let them keep their pay and there job for life, with one exception, if we close a work unit (example one of the quangos) that the staff loose their jobs rather than being redeployed.

      Reply
    • Niall 24/10/12 #

      Unions are the spawn of the devil.

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    • Michael Purcell put it very well in his comment. One would be wise to read it before throwing the head at the PS. The PS have not been without their fair share of cuts. I would be interested to know what backgrounds people are from when making their well informed remarks.

      Reply
  • It should be noted the 300,000 public servants Mr. Molly refers to also form the 5 million population. They are not an elite class of their own. They face the same stealth taxes and income tax increases all PAYE face as well as constant attacks on their pay. This group support jobs in the retail sector, service industry etc and play a large role in supporting the private sector by using their disposable income here. This constant reference to pay cuts will do nothing but stifle any little optimism that is left and encourage people to save what little disposable income that is left. Result the full 5 million of the state with a small number of exceptions will be effected. We are all in this together and continuously pitting public and private sector against each other achieves nothing but bad feeling.

    Reply
  • When all else fails in life, become a management consultant! What an absolutely pointless role! Eddie argues that Croke Park should be ripped up because we live in different times. Well, Eddie my boy, I’d argue your chosen career is one that truly belongs in the Celtic Tiger era!

    Reply
  • Agreed there are far to many paper shufflers but its those selfsame paper shufflers that hold the purse strings and they will see the rest of us in the public service drown in the shit before they take a hit. And no amount now agreements is ever going to change that.

    Reply
    • YOU are in a position to change it Mick. Why don’t you and the other front line workers form your own union. A movement that would actually have full private sector support… these paper pushers and corrupt union bosses are pulling you down…

      Reply
  • This government are just getting worse and worse.They have cut everything to the bone (not their unvouched expences and other expences and taken cuts in line on their wages) and now they are causing a major divide in our public service.
    Maybe they are hoping for the old ff ploy of “divide & conquer” but just keep in mind kenny,these people are the firing line that keeps your worthless arse covered.

    Reply
  • Apart from some overpaid SIPTU eejits like Jack O’Connor & consultants whose salaries went up 4%, probably like Eddie Molloy himself, can you remember when nurses, teachers, firemen & frontline staff completed wrecked the economy for billions? No, neither can i, if you pay peanuts, then people will not spend, if it isnt students, its pensioners, if it isnt the unemployed its nurses or single mothers. The spiral to the bottom has to stop or you’ll be next in line. For shortages listen to 0:20 on this http://youtu.be/LQ7vsqfOuYo

    Reply
    • tom 24/10/12 #

      please don’t include pensioners unemployed etc in with public sector
      that’s just not on…. there is no protection or benefit for them in CPA

      Reply
    • Tom i am one of those , but if i see hospitals & school services hit, then it affects us all, so i stand with the public sector, its called solidarity not the creed of selfishness dreamed by Fine Gael, i know who our enemies are & its the cutbacks by banksters

      Reply
    • tom 24/10/12 #

      if a ward gets closed the staff don’t get laided off instead they stay employed and are even a bigger burden. The only losser is the patients.
      so while you have little or no pension, have your welfare cut to pay for a bloated public sector, or take massive pay cuts if your lucky to be employed you support CPA…. that baffles me.

      Reply
  • Private hospitals on the other hand, can chose their patients to reduce their costs. Name one that would accept you if u were in a serious road traffic accident or doesn’t close at night. They also don’t have the burden of having to treat thousands of people who can’t pay

    Reply
  • I am a retired civil servant. My electricity, phone, groceries have all gone up over the last four years but my pension has suffered an effective twenty per cent fall over that time. Many public servants work hours beyond their paid time to get the job done. There are also a very large coterie of technical public servants such as engineers, architects, etc who are on reasonable salaries however in the private sector they would be on twice their public sector salaries.
    It is very easy to have a go at the CPA however it should be noted that the TROIKA reported that the beleaguered Department of Finance has provided the advices to do what we were eventually forced to do long before it became a strident necessity. Public servants provide a vast range of services to the population that are in many other countries provide by for example universities. It should be remembered we are a small country but still demand all the services of a much larger economy.
    We need to find a way to allow domestic growth in this economy. Public servants are not the enemy. They are an easy target as they are forbidden from political comment while serving.(their pay is political) so cannot comment themselves. Many public servants now qualify for family income supplement. This is scandalous. People who administer social welfare are in recent of benefits themselves. This is reminiscent of Thatchers Britain yet there is no outcry.
    We have got to stop paying for the gambling debts of failed private sector enterprises rather than attacking people on less than the average industrial wage

    Reply
    • Agree with this other than where you say the private sector pays double to the likes of architects and engineers. If that were the case they would leave. Unless you think it’s some noble obligation that keeps them there. I’m an IT student and if there were that big a pay difference no one would work in the public sector, simple as. In fact the average public sector wage is 900e-1000. Private 600-700. Although you could argue there’s more skilled workers in likes of the HSE and govt offices which would explain that 300e difference. But getting double for the same qualification in intel or Accenture as opposed to Dept of education IT department? Bullshit.

      Reply
  • And yet every Irish political party supports it. Riddle me that!

    Reply
  • Darren you personally may not want to target front line workers. But in through larger scheme of things we are just pay numbers. When Finance looks at us it doesn’t see peoples names it sees rows of pay numbers and not the individuals pay but the gross pay of us all. And then they say to the departments we want x amount of cuts. So each department looks at its rows of numbers and cuts.
    Now are you seriously telling me that the Head of each Department when starting the cutting process. says to themselves I had better start with myself and work down?
    What they will do is say to themselves is I will take say 2% from the bottom because there are more of them and work up. And then they will say to themselves when they have achieved the required savings they can stop before it ever gets to them. And that is the reality of the situation

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    • Damocles 24/10/12 #

      Right Mick, so renegotiate the Croke Park agreement with that in mind … oh for God’s sake what’s the point?

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    • Actually Mick, what I would suggest is to ignore all the SIPTU whinging, and get in proper private sector experts, who can go through everyone, and decide who to cut (who is dead wood, who needs to be moved, who is not giving value for money, who is taking the piss?).. and if it was handled by impartial third parties, all layers would be addressed, and there would be nowhere for the managers doing nothing and avoiding cuts to hide…

      But your unions wouldn’t allow such a sensible approach… would they?

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  • What Eddie fails to acknowledge is that agreements involve give and take. Here the PS unions Agreed to give a lot more efficiencies and reduced terms in return for no more pay cuts (eddie fails to mention the two years of pay cuts pre agreement).

    There are a number of other sections of the economy that have also gotten clear passes, how come they don’t get the same level of scrutiny? Is it because the largely biased media is running a campaign to focus the attacks on PS workers to save themselves and their buddies?

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  • Nowhere would the boss of an organisation be linked to agreements on staff pay and be a member of their union as well. The C P deal was the biggest cute hoot move for the higher echelons in the history of our country.

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  • They have made the choice. Services will be cut before they will cut pay. So people will remain on trollies sick and schools will still look for money from parents for heating materials ect and policing will be cut to the bare minimum. In short in the future we will be sicker people, less secure people, and have to pay more toward schools to prop up failing budgets. In the meantime the public service keep their huge salaries and 70% of Health Budget goes to wages. We are living in an insane country. It is a system designed to dish out big wages not services. Anyone who has gotten sick will know this. Services are non existent but wages will still be paid to broken services and systems and the people will pay as their quality of life goes downhill.

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  • Why do people here expect normal hard working PS worker to enjoy hearing others telling they are being payed too much. PS have had pay cuts agreed of about 20% as part of croke park along with other productivity measures eg. Moving location at cost borne by employee. The cost of our mortgages travel tax are the same for us as for other workers.
    Why do people think we should be jumping up and down with joy and welcome the breaking of an already difficult agreement. The croke park deal was a compromise but it seems people wont be happy until we are working for free.

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    • Ha… working for free? Nope, that is definitely not what we want as taxpayers. We want our valuable Public sector workers paid very well… and the needless admin and middle management purged of the useless dodgers!
      Personally, I don’t want to see PS pay cut, in fact it should increase in many areas (Teachers, Nurses etc…. for good workers anyway)… I think we should remove the dead wood, and needless paper pushers…

      By the way…Do you think a person in the private sector that has to move office/location is given any help? And you only move within a 45 mile radius right? I know people who’s office moved from Dublin to Cork….

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    • Do you think that in times of national hardship, when money is tight and unemployment is high, massive pay packets of senior managers in state institutions should be protected at the expense of ordinary and mid level workers in the public sectors and at the expense of the wider tax payer at large, particularly if that means that services generally might have to be cut as a result often hurting the most vulnerable in our society who do not have the ability to fight back?

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    • Not true that people want Public servants to work for nothing and we all know how much they have given up, but for the P S to remain united in the belief that the guys on €200k are part of the agreement and that the C P A cant change to sort that is the issue that is difficult to grasp. The person on 20k standing four square with to 200k is suspicious to those of us outside.

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    • @grinder. The problem for us is that when there are increases the higher paid get far more and the lower paid get less perfect example is benchmarking. However when there are cuts the higher paid get less of a cut than us lower paid. This is normaly done by arguing that there are far more lower paid So from historic precedent it is only natural to expect any further cuts to effect us lower paid more.
      I agree there should be greater redundancies offered as it is unfair to impose further cuts without offering the opertunaty to get out. Statutory redundancy would be enough for many to make the jump. However they won’t offer this as the staff who would go are the very ones they need to provide the services and also the same staff who are bearing the worst of cuts and are the same staff who get despondent reading this crap on the Journal on an almost daily basis.

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  • People are saying that that authorities are dividing in order to conquer, but frankly I think you’re doing it for them.

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  • divide and conquer….. but then the Irish have a long history of infighting so why change now?

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  • All you private sector workers here, how many of you bitch and moan when your boss shows up in a 12 reg Merc and has the effrontery to tell you your getting a pay cut.. Don’t think many of you do. Yet you come on here attacking folks that had the good sense to join a union and protect themselves. Wake up fools, the public sector is not your enemy here.

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  • Great piece, Eddie. ‘The government seems to forget that it is not just an employer of 300,000 public servants, but the government of 5,000,000 citizens.’ The core of the problem.

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  • Another disgusting attack on public sector workers…

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    • Attacking public sector workers is a national pastime now, it’s after getting very boring. There will be the usual comments about teachers, guards and nurses being useless and ignorant to “the state of the country” blah blah blah.

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    • Next week we’ll have halloween again, that time of the year when the gardai, Fire Service and A&E Departments up and down the country will be stretched to the limits. Go tell them that night that you feel they’re overpaid, overstaffed etc.
      Once again this seems to be one of those “oh it’s not the low paid staff I meant, it’s the higher paid staff I mean”, but when you cast such a wide net you catch everyone in it.

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    • Niall 24/10/12 #

      It’s not an attack on the workers, it’s the unions who are the spawn of the devil.

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    • At this stage one could be forgiven for thinking that The Journal has an agenda with its almost daily anti-CPA pieces.

      At the very least its buying into the private sector media-led crusade against public workers.

      Before anyone accuses me of bias, I work in the private sector myself.

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    • The teaching unions have suddenly decided to protest about new recruits doing the same work for 27% less pay. Why protest now? Isn’t it a bit late in the day! Incumbent teachers and their unions proved that they don’t give a Ross about new recruits, when they didn’t fight this government decision on this in the first place. This protest is really about fear of their own perks and comfortabl being disrupted

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    • @ Rusty Balls,

      Your comment is pathetic. Once again we take one Day ( halloween) or one incident ( a viable device) or one tragedy ( multiple car pile up) to attempt to frighten people into accepting the horrendous waste and duplication in the public service

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    • @Josh – If you knew the first thing about the front line, you’d know it’s not one day – it’s every day. When I started my job in 2006 there were three of me, I’m now a one man band, I start work at 6:45am, and work until 7,8,9pm, 5 days a week. I also work a call shift – this means I do my day job, work the overnight shift, and get back to my day job. In 36 hours, I am lucky to get 3 hours sleep – if I get any sleep at all. I am not the only one to do this, there are doctors and nurses up and down the country doing this day in, day out. Tell us how to get more efficient. You can’t, because we are grossly understaffed every day of the week. Get real, your ignorance is showing you up.

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    • @josh ur completely right because after we take away that on day (Halloween ) or one incident ( viable device ) or tragedy ( multi car pile up) all that’s left to deal with is house fires, assaults, thefts, burglaries, lookin after the very sick/dying in hospitals. And luckily 4 u those all occur in one day leaving the public sector another 364 days a year 2 destroy this country all by themselves

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    • I’m a low paid PS worker and while I want to protect my pay and have already taken large cuts I’m not so blind that I can’t see that the CPA was a bad deal. We (public, private and unemployed) will all be worse off for it in the long run.

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    • Its not an attack its a simple fact. They are overpaid. Not the low paid one, the overpaid ones. They have to go.

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    • @ rusty balls…. yes Halloween next week… teachers off again… its been very stressful for them after working since September… sure they only get 10 weeks of each summer….

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    • @ rusty balls…. yes Halloween next week… teachers off again… its been very stressful for them after working since September… sure they only get 10 weeks of each summer….

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    • Here we go again… The public sector are under fire, roll out the guards, nurses and firemen to protect us. What should happen is a 10% pay increase for REAL frontline workers as stated above and a cull or 30% pay cut for the. Rest, I’m sick of all these paper pushers and pointless managers using PS workers that we all appreciate to defend there unrequited badly execute job and overpaid salaries

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  • When a low paid worker defends the rights of the highest paid worker and when the gap between them is as much as €200k a year then I wonder Why and I smell a large rat

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  • A “thought leader”. Now I really am laughing!

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  • Darren and Damoces. If you knew our Union you wouldn’t let them anywhere near a negotiations table. They have been kowtowing to the department for years.

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    • So no suggestions then Mick?.. We shouldn’t address obvious issues in the Public Sector?
      No wonder we are so screwed.. everyone expects someone else to carry the water!

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    • As already has been stated by others we have taken a 20% cut in pay before Croke Park. There is only so much meat on the bone. So instead of looking to the public sector wages look at the social welfare system. Billions could be saved by an extensive overhaul of it. How many people were on it it during the Tiger period when we had full employment? How many people are still scamming it? Thats where you make savings in the public purse .

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    • Oh yeah, now you’re talking… the welfare state is beyond a farce in this country… That is a big fish that needs to be fried… but we do also need to trim the useless fat in the middle in the Public Sector, the admins and paper pushers who’s role is now outdated and useless.. and the middle management who do bugger all too… the flabby middle.. the ‘Love handles’ of the Public sector…

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    • Damocles 24/10/12 #

      Unfortunately Mick when suggestions about cutting welfare are mentioned people start shouting about how much they’ve paid in over the years and about hurting the disadvantaged. And oh, for pity’s sake, Mick, will ye not think of the children?

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    • Damocles you really try to belittle anyone who argues against you and then slander their comments. Yes we do happen to think of the children and yes we have paid into the system. The reason people feel compelled to repeat here constantly is because people like you seem to think ye carry those less well off or unemployed. You carry nobody only yourself. As for cutting welfare. Try living on 186 euro a week and Pay a mortgage and everything else then see how smart you are. If you depended on welfare you wouldn’t be long losing your arrogance.

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    • Damocles 24/10/12 #

      Christopher that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Just as myself and Darren said repeatedly that we do not want to cut front line services, Mick said quite clearly that he was interested in stopping long term scammers of the welfare system, not stopping genuine recipients.

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    • Damocles and Darren. I don’t know what if anything you do but seem to have nothing better to do than comment on every post relating to public service. I am generally too busy to read all posts never mind respond to them all. Well done.

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    • @David… Multitasking

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    • Haha. Yea that’s it.

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  • If anyone in the public service feels so hard done by feel free to join us on the darkside in the private sector at any stage

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    • Sean what are ya on about???? Have ya not noticed that everyone within a certain salary group is getting, and has got, nailed by cuts. Etc…

      The reason the highly paid management, be it public or private sector, has not got cut as much could be a result of the government wanting to protect their high salaries too.

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    • Well Sean, if you think it’s so great here why don’t you join us here in the public sector… Word of advice, you might want a flask of coffee for your 12-14 hours at night in an ambulance… Not counting the hours commute. Also when you do start the shift you can expect to be physically and verbally assaulted by the dregs of society…

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    • I’ve recently left the private sector for a frontline ps job and i’m on 10k less per annum. Your comment is another example of tarring all ps workers with the same brush.

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  • tom 24/10/12 #

    I congratulate the author on a very well written artical. Seperating fact from fiction and stating it clearly as it is.

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  • Tiny population with highest paid public workers in Europe ……no wonder The Germans had to take over the Governing of this “banana republic”.

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  • Dermot O’Reilly you sem to forget we payed our dues in the public sector 14000/year..thats 36000 by now! Thats a big chunk of change for the average wage public sector! This bashing has to stop as it is gone too far.. we negoitated the plans to protect our professions, family and still we can only save 100-200/month if were lucky! School fees were 1000 for 3 children this year put back us 10 months savings! No healthcare coverage or life insurance for my family .My family has been left vulneerable due to this paycut! No more cuts! Bottom line! CPA which I hate because it didn’t protect our pay hurts every day.. I took my cut! Have you!

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  • The Croke Park Agreement needs substantial re-negotiation. It was agreed when we had a Booming Economy.
    Can anyone explain why our government gives substantial funds to Trade Union Organisations? How much do we pay the Trade Unions per annum? The Trade Union Executive have substantial salaries which need to be fully disclosed and reduced!!

    The proposed strike in Aer Lingus is ill conceived. It appears the management of the Trade Unions want to destroy Aer Lingus and put all Aer Lingus workers on the dole queues! Please get sense!!!

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