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Dublin: 12 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Column: Everybody seems to be leaving, but what about those of us left?

In these days of mass emigration, writes Stefanie Preissner, should we feel a responsibility to the country that raised us?

Stefanie Preissner

Stefanie Preissner is the writer and performer of Solpadeine is My Boyfriend at ABSOLUT Fringe 2012. The show deals with emigration, and here she asks: what do we owe to the ones who stay?

WHEN LIFE GIVES you lemons, make lemonade… in Australia.

I was at an extremely depressing house party last Friday night. Aside from the fact that the music was aggressively bad and the Dutch Gold was flowing, the mood of the party was one to which I have become accustomed: sombre, delicate and with tangible, repressed emotion. Another one of my friends had decided to take their free degree and check in online to Australia.

Growing up with a second level education in Ireland in the noughties meant that you were repeatedly told that the world was your oyster, that you could do whatever degree you wanted because obviously you would get a degree – it was free, like, why wouldn’t you?
And you would skip out into the world then and get whatever job you liked. Skip forward a few years and we, who are now twenty-somethings, cannot afford to live in the world we were brought into.

€188 a week on the dole doesn’t quite appeal to a person who made over £850 for their First Holy Communion.

We feel an ill-placed sense of entitlement to work in the field that we trained. But are we so entitled?

I am trying to stick it out here. My feeling is that, as an artist, even during the Celtic Tiger, I probably wouldn’t have been earning that much more than I am today. But what is more difficult than not having money and only sporadically having work is finding yourself
with less and less support as your circle of friends is now a circle with the circumference of the globe.

A country that needs us

It seems like we now feel absolutely no sense of responsibility to stay in a country that needs us, a country that gave us free education while it could. The saying in the 80s was “the best left” and I don’t like feeling that people think they are better for leaving. I’m sure there are many people who would rather stay here if given the choice, and also people who would be leaving anyway no matter the state of the economy.

My issue is that – like young people who put their parents straight into homes when they become dependent – there is no sense of patriotism or loyalty to a country suffering depression.

I am trying to find solutions and examine what has happened through theatre, but I’m finding it hard when preaching to an audience who clearly have not emigrated.

I say in the play, “If people would stop leaving and moving away it would be easier for the ones who have to stay. If we were all still here we could carry the weight but a few people can’t support an entire state.”

It’s a hard time for young people in Ireland, and I guess I believe that if we were all still here at least we’d have each other. But people have to live and people have to eat. And perhaps there are bigger problems.

“The polar bears are starving, the whales need saving, the bees are becoming extinct, pandas won’t mate, people are flying planes into buildings, oil is running out, there’s a hole in the sky above the Antarctic that’s killing us all, there’s not enough money, there are
too many people, iPhone batteries die too quickly. Tigers are endangered, rhinoes are endangered, two types of turtle, a parrot and a shark. But I never saw a dinosaur! Things become extinct.”

Stefanie Preissner’s Solpadeine Is My Boyfriend runs from September 6-15 in the Project Arts Centre at 1pm daily. For more info or to book go to fringefest.com or call 1850 374 643.

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Comments (145 Comments)

  • I think this article is being wittily ironic / sarcastic. I finished school long before 2000. Until we we a decent chunk into the nineties, anyone leaving school or coming out of a degree course accepted that they’d be leaving the country, at least for a few years. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but not emigrating was and is not the norm in this country. People have short memories. Take a sample, not of the last fifteen years, but of the last fifty years, and you’ll see that this state of desperation we’re in is not exceptional, this is the default setting for Ireland. The boom was the exceptional blip, not the normality. In the mid-nineties, people spent with abandon because they simply didn’t believe the prosperity bubble would keep going. But it did. I feel truly sorry for any Irish people who is 30 or under, not just because life is tough for them, but because they grew up with an unsustainable belief in entitlement and privilege. They thought that this prosperity was normal and natural. It wasn’t. They see Ireland as sinking into oblivion. If we’re honest, any of the older readers here should admit that we’re not collapsing, we’re returning to a poorer way if life that is very very familiar to us. Life was hard for a long long time. It changed for a while. The aberration balanced out, and life is hard again.

    Reply
    • Sorry, I meant to say hat I really hope that this article was being knowingly wittily ironic/sarcastic. If not, and this is the sincere option of the country’s youngers, then we’re in a far worse mess than we thought.

      Reply
    • The question is, why is Ireland such a cr*phole that successive generations are forced to emigrate?

      Reply
    • But I don’t think Ireland is a cr*phole. Not at all. We’ve been a nation for less then a hundred years, and in that time we’ve proven to be spectacularly bad at managing our national finances, but even in the current recession, life in Ireland is immensely better than it was at, say, any time before the 1960s. I like Ireland quite a bit. I emigrated as a young man ad returned with a wife as we wanted to bring our kids up here. Both kids are now have passed the 30-year mark. We’re good at a lot of things, finance a politics are not two of them, but finance and politics are not the be all and end all. If they were, I’d never have moved back.

      Reply
  • The young people who were forced to leave this country did this country a favour as there was no jobs and they would be costing the country money so they left family and friends behind to try and make a life for themselves. They should be thanked not treated like they deserted their country.

    Reply
    • Aleo 05/09/12 #

      There’s also a long tradition of emigrants sending money home. They may well have done more for Ireland’s economy in that regard than some of its home-grown administrations did.

      Reply
    • Totally agree but young and let’s say mature left. Tell me what would happen if we all descended back in Ireland. Ireland can not cope with the people it has now cutbacks, taxes, charges for everything now in some ways we did the government a favor by leaving. In our case it was two less weekly payments the gov had to fork out.

      Reply
  • As someone who left Ireland in the 80′s and returned mid Celtic tiger to find a new country I find myself reminded of a conversation I has with two friends who stayed. One was lucky enough to have a job (low paid) and felt a sense of pride in building what was to become the tiger economy (a true socialist) and the other for the entire period was unemployed and felt that the country failed him as he couldn’t put his education to use. My view on your article is that it suggests that my unemployed friend was better off stuck in Ireland waiting for somthing to happen or try to make somthing happen instead of doing what I had to do and emigrate to etch a career/life for myself; this has not proven to be true in his case.

    Reply
  • Patriotism and Loyalty to ones country are all good and well but they don’t pay the bills.

    Reply
  • I stopped reading after “if people stopped moving away and leaving it would be easier for those of us who can’t “. I left Ireland 2 year’s ago and why Should I sit in Ireland on the Dole or live in Australia on $1200 per week just because some people can’t afford to leave or just can’t be bothered. I won’t be made feel guilty about leaving Ireland in order to succeed, I didn’t destroy the economy and I won’t be there for the fallout either.

    Reply
  • It is tragic and history repeats. No one has been held accountable and we have lost another generation. But it is important for young people who stay to be appreciated as we rely on them to hold the fort. It will get better, nothing is more certain and in the greater scheme of things when you look at the atrocious conditions 90 % of the world population suffer. We are in relative clover here! F**k the banks. We must our kids to revolt!

    Reply
    • The sad truth is young people who stay will not only feel unappreciated but also completely ignored. There is no sense at all that things will get better because the policies being implemented now will only make things far worse. I’ve been hoping for social change for a long time, some sort of a new life in Ireland, a sense of civil disobedience and reform…. but I’ve come to realise that this large scale emigration of young people is the only thing the government will even notice. The brain drain of the 80s left a gap in Irish society that was never quit filled again, much like the potholes around the country. And the 10s are going to see the exact same thing again, unless something radical changes. It’s not enough anymore to plug the holes on the sinking ship, we need radical change, and it’s evident this is not going to come from the government, nor any political party.

      Reply
    • I’m ashamed of Ireland’s response to the crisis. We were one of the first generations that wasn’t faced with the hard choice of emigration or trying to eke out an existence at home. Now it’s like the clock has turned back. I don’t want my kids to face the same choice.

      Reply
    • The eternal problem with Ireland is that historically it was a dependency of the UK. Left to the management of absentee landlords during the famine, the country never shook off its obsession with land and only began industrialisation in the 60s. It never had and never will have the necessary employment to ensure that all it’s children have jobs at home. Farming, tourism and the food industry, while not to be sniffed at , don’t offer a sustainable future to the vast majority to the next generation. Unless we become vastly more diverse in how we compete on the world stage, the Irish, alas , will always produce children for export.

      Reply
    • Bullshit… Farming, food and tourism, I work between two global corporations with 7k employees in this country between them, I don’t know a single person Gen. X or Y in the above industries all my friends work in telecoms, computers, tech, pharma, biotech, net…

      Reply
    • censored 06/09/12 #

      ” It never had and never will have the necessary employment to ensure that all it’s children have jobs at home”

      Congratulations Strongbow62, this is exactly the supine attitude that I was referring to. It is ludicrous to believe that Ireland can never support its population. What holds us back is the defeatist attitude.

      Reply
  • I’m doing all that second time around with two kids. And very slim chance of leaving again. No, I don’t feel patriotic any more. Also, as well as “patriotically” returning and employing people, my taxes funded all that free education, which I doubt will be there when my kids get to university. Nice, isn’t it? I’d leave tomorrow if it was a real option.

    Reply
    • Government and Fas cared little about young apprentices who were well on the way to completing their apprenticeships. They gave them 188 e or less that they could have given their employers who could have kept them on to finish. Mary Harney spent 13,000E and that cost a lot of apprentices their second year rate in 2 classes in Galway alone. If Fas had the foresight not to call a fifth of a company’s workforce (all different levels)
      and leave the employer with no apprentices the busiest time of the year, the apprentices would not have been done out of the guts of 2,000 Euro over the six month period. Why should the youth of this country pay to bail out these gangsters. We as parents will be paying the price for years to come.

      Reply
  • Everyone had to do what’s best for themselves, loyalty to this country doesn’t come into it. If it means emigrate to have a better life than so be it. Don’t look back!

    Reply
  • To sit around and do nothing with a degree in your back pocket is a waste, (i am not saying people aren’t looking for jobs, there are none). there is the possibilty that people will get international and life experience and come back when the tide turns, and help Ireland recover, meanwhile there will be less people on the live register !, I know it is regretable, and hard to see all your peers leave… But you have to put it in perspective, some places in the world people are starving…

    Reply
  • Why should the majority of young people support the state when the state doesn’t give a flying f**k about them??

    Reply
    • They did hand out “free” healthcare and “free” education, so at least you got something

      Don’t forget joining the Euro was a nightmare decision that we will regret long into the future.

      Reply
    • Hi Michael,

      There’s no such thing as free education or healthcare. It doesn’t just appear. For most third level students, it’s most likely their parents paying for it through their taxes and other contributions to the running of the college and healthcare system.

      Reply
    • Is it not ‘free’ when the recipient doesn’t have to pay for it?
      E.g. if I give you a Newspaper for nothing, you’d classify it as free even if I had to pay for it.

      Nothing is ever free.. but it can be ‘free’ to the recipient.
      Just a thought.

      Reply
  • I don’t feel like this country has done much of late to earn my loyalty or respect. Being born here isn’t really enough for me.
    My time during the boom years was an utter misery. While working to go to college and pay crazy rent in Dublin I was at times close to starvation, I couldn’t get anything approximating a decent job where I was treated like a human being and ended up moving.
    Abroad I was given opportunities and further training (not by other Irish people I hasten to ad) and had adventures I never imagined, memories I could never have built here.
    I came back, got a reasonable job after the downturn, again was undervalued and had to fight daily not to have other peoples mistakes pinned on me so I left again. It turned out to be a good move and Im contributing more to the Irish economy than I ever did before.
    My point is that leaving is not necessarily a bad thing. People may feel more attached to their nationality than I do. Great. You have my admiration and envy.Hold on to that!! But if you have nothing holding you back and feel like you aren’t getting a fair go here then why not try somewhere else? Even just for a while? I honestly think it can be a great thing to get out from under Ireland’s ‘who you know’ culture and do something for your CV that cant be ignored when you come back. And foreign market experience can be a big benefit.
    Its sad that peoples friends are so scattered these days. But in some ways that can help as it really gave me the kick in the ass I needed to ask myself.
    Whats keeping me here?
    My future kids wont thank me for suffering in a lower paying job, holding placards to a government that doesn’t listen when I could have been elsewhere preparing a better life for them

    Reply
  • It’s a little offensive to call people like me who have had to leave the country unpatriotic. I’m Irish and proud of it.

    Most people don’t leave on a whim or out of greed or a sense of entitlement. They leave because there is little in Ireland of the 2010s for them. Would it be better for your friends to stay in Ireland draw the dole, hang around and pray for something to change or would it be better for them to leave, get jobs, learn new skills and then perhaps return to Ireland when the economy is ready to recover and they can be productive members of the workforce using those new skills to build a new Celtic Tiger? What is the more courageous thing to do, stay and hope something changes or go and try to change things yourself?

    Reply
  • Those who leave, leave for a good reason, and we should wish them the very, very best of good luck. Those who stay for a variety of reasons, including those who stay because they cannot leave. Let’s not judge either group except to say Good Luck and God Bless.

    Reply
  • A nice sentiment. We left because there’s no accountability, no justice and no reform. We refuse to pay for the economic mess when no one is accountable. Why should we?

    Reply
    • Whilst there are obviously many who had little choice, not everybody that emigrates genuinely MUST do so. It is overstated by many people and Noonan was somewhat correct to say that for some it is a lifestyle choice.

      Obviously many are not lifestyle choices, but there are plenty that could actually have stayed.

      Reply
    • Could have stayed, sure, wouldn’t make sense but sure I could’ve. Everyone in Ireland could react to the bulls**t that goes on in the dàil when they bother to show up. We have a population of 4 mil give or take, USA has close to 400 mil, Enda Kenny earns more than Obama?!?!? And nobody does anything except go on about it on here or facebook. Ireland is so depressing, people aren’t even motivated to work nevermind revolt! So yeah leave it for now work be happy come back to doom and gloom for Christmas, but your delusional if you stay at home and don’t have any opportunities….

      Reply
    • yeah, like getting a job is a lifestyle choice, or being in an abusive relationship.

      Reply
    • Read my post again. I clearly say that many had to leave. Nevertheless, there are people that left when they didn’t necessarily have leave. I know such people. I could have been one too.

      It is futile to pretend that every young person that leaves was unable to find work (I know people that left jobs to move to Australia). Yet many talk as if we are in a second famine with young hungry people leaving with cloth caps in hand begging. All I want is a little more reason and logic to these arguments and less populist nonsense.

      Reply
  • So what exactly is the point of the article? That those who have left are not patriotic? And just because your job is unchanged, author, and your income is the same you’re staying put? And that makes you somehow better than those who left? So what if their education was free? If they can’t use their qualifications to further their cares, why should they stay? And so what if they wish to continue in their chosen speciality? If they didn’t, the time spent studying is wasted. Just because you don’t wish to develop and you are happy with your lot doesn’t make everyone else wrong. You’re just lucky to be content with your lot, but that doesn’t mean everyone else should be.

    Reply
  • Patriotism is a crock. I love Ireland as it happens, but not because I’m supposed to, and definitely not because someone like the author might look down on me if I don’t. I happen to think Ireland is one of the best places to live, but if I have to leave, or even if I just decide to, that’s my business and mine alone! Why does it seem like everybody these days thinks they’re better than everybody else?

    Reply
  • I have a Computer Science degree. I have had minor plans of emigrating for reasons other than employment. Mainly lifestyle choices. I find Irish people to be very negative towards most of what is going on in this country.

    Quite frankly I think Ireland is doing a great job of picking itself up and facing the music. The problem I have with Ireland is I can’t stand people who begrudge, moan, and belittle those who want to go and make a more prosperous/happier life elsewhere. Most of the comments on this website are inherently negative. No one wants to live in a place where negativity prospers.

    I don’t see it as a cop out to take your ‘free’ (firstly no degree is free, and although massively subsidised many people pay/will pay taxes which essentially pay for said degree), I see it as people wanting a different scene, a different lifestyle.

    It should go without saying that I love Ireland, and will always want to return, but a few years in a different culture can only do the world of good.

    Reply
  • Article does wander a bit, but I get the gist. I felt a bit like that author in the 80s during the so-called “brain drain” when I stayed behind whilst approx 90% of my classmates left for greener pastures and better prospects than an ever-lengthening dole queue (we didn’t have the free degrees then tho – that was just a 70′s band to us!) but….

    those that left, and subsequently came back wearing rose-tinted specs kinda p*ssed me off a bit cos they were overly vocal and emotional about how fab Ireland was (naturally more patriotic than this stayer!) and how much they missed it, whilst wondering how the hell I stuck still being here.
    Same old story now – educate and export. What a waste of resources- surely if you invest in something, there should be dividends for the investors? Frankly, I’m sick of saying Goodbyes!

    Reply
  • Biggest mistake I made in 1988 was not emigrating with all my friends. I for some reason decided to stay but what a lonely life it was in rural Ireland then for a teenager. I bought a car for 1000 pounds and the insurance cost 1400. Couldn’t afford the insurance the second year. During the boom a lot of them returned home and bought or built houses mortgage free, while I struggle on. It is hard on those who stay at home.

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  • Left because I wanted to leave, not because I had to. But many of those who leave with their “free degrees” do eventually want to come back and make a life here. And pay taxes. And if we all stayed imagine how much dole we’d be asking our state to shovel out in our current situation. Might be better for us that some leave temporarily. I got dole for the first time in my life today. In my particular case, it was too much.

    Reply
  • You owe your opportunities of happiness and prosperity to no-one but yourself. Someone with potential and a sense of purpose should not stay here and wait for their life and career to get going. They certainly shouldn’t feel any shame in choosing to emigrate either.

    I had to get my degree abroad even though I had 100 Leaving Cert points in what later became my chosen profession and this was because the points system meant that unrelated nonsense hindered my ability to better myself or even be considered for a degree course in what I always wanted to do. So I baulk at any suggestion that I owe the government. If anything, they owe me for throwing my tax into a bottomless pit for years and putting obstacles in my way.

    I do miss Tayto crisps though…

    Reply
  • The country does not need these people- if it did there would be jobs for them! If they stayed they would only be drawing the dole instead of working, training and upskilling abroad, and hopefully when our economy picks up we will have an influx of our diaspora who are now even more skilled than before instead of people who have been educated in Ireland and sat around in the dole. If anything it is more patriotic to go abroad, gain new skills and come back when jobs are available.

    Reply
  • I just don’t get this piece. I think it’s takes this writer a long time to say nothing.

    Reply
    • I guess there’s just no conclusion to be made?

      Reply
    • Ha!! I bet you didn’t think the author would reply?? Feeling a little red faced?

      Reply
    • Jesus I feel so shitty after reading that. Emigration is not all negative.

      This piece is negative and not representative of all emigrants.

      Reply
    • I don’t really get it and definitely don’t agree with it. Just because we got “free” education does not mean we have any obligation to suffer in this country. And the “free” education was mutually beneficial in that an educated work force attracted foreign direct investment. Fair enough we pay taxes etc for local services, civil servants, gardai, health care etc, but I no way agree with having to foot the bill arising from poor corporate governance in what was plc banks. If greencore made poor investment decisions would we have to pay? No, they’d close and a gap in the market would lead to others entering it. So in short, people are 100% right to ditch this island and if I had no job, I would too.
      I wish I could find an investment like the bondholders of Irish Banks, sure if the company fails the people of Ireland will still provide a healthy return on my investment. We are a laughing stock in this regard, and people could do a lot worse then leaving for somewhere where you only pay for your own mistakes

      Reply
    • @telford, amazing how bad mannered people can be just because they dont agree. The fact is you missed the point. This country lagged behind Britain (and the north for that matter ) when it came to industrialisation and remained predominantly agrarian. It will take a lot more Googles, Intels and the rest up soak up 400000 unemployed. Nobody is suggesting that the agri food industry can do that. That is my point. The historical retardation of this country by the British first and DeValera and the churches economic and cultural protectionism stopped industrialisation until the 60s. We have never caught up with the rest of Europe in providing sustainable employment for our population and most likely never will at this point. @censored . Keep your academic waffle for the classroom.

      Reply
    • censored 07/09/12 #

      @Strongbow62: you should try going to a classroom some time, you may be able to catch up with the rest of us who have left the industrial revolution back in the 19th century.

      We’re in the 21st century now you know. How many generations will it take before we can stop using the British as an excuse?

      Israel has done better than us and in a shorter time. It’s a similarly small country and was faced with more extreme challenges.

      Reply
  • I, and many other college students like myself, owe absolutely nothing to this country. We have been betrayed and so have our parents.

    Unfortunately for our parents, they have few options but to stick it out here.

    I was told in 2008, at the age of 14, by a teacher to ”get your degree and get the hell out of this country as fast as the next plane will fly you.”

    I think I’ll take here advice. Four years on, it only seems to make more sense.

    Reply
    • Hold on there, buddy.

      Before you think you owe nothing, this country gave you “free” healthcare and “free” education.

      Reply
    • Like I said above Michael, it’s not free. This man’s parents have paid their contributions to the state and part of the benefits they receive from making those payments is his education being ‘free’.

      Reply
    • An interesting sense of entitlement there, Patrick Colm.

      John F Kennedy had a contrasting opinion. But yours is more valid I’m sure.

      So take your free degree and go. And the best of luck to you. Genuinely.

      Reply
    • Sorry, Colin…where are you getting this idea of ‘free degree’? Although full fees in the traditional sense haven’t been re-introduced yet, that doesn’t mean a free education! When I started college in 2008, registration fees were €500, by my last year they were almost €2000 per annum. They are increasing all the time and are hardly ‘free’ by any stretch of the imagination.

      Reply
    • @Colin Tyrrell

      Your JFK comparison could not be any more opposite to what sort of world is out there today. Why should I stay in Ireland and pay back the debt of gamblers?

      Then again, your entire comment reeks of ignorance by claiming I get a ”free” degree. Ask any parent who has a young adult attending college just how ”free” our education is.

      Reply
    • Michael 02/10/12 #

      Kevin, we agree.

      There’s a reason the word “free” is in quotation marks.

      Reply
  • Absolutely outrageous article. I’m a 24 year old male and I’ve been forced to move to Australia in order to make enough money so I can finish my college degree. If I had the option of staying and working in Ireland I would. You talk about patriotism for the country that taught and raised us, but if all of my fellow emigrants stayed at home then the increased figures on the live register would surely cripple the country. We have been forced to leave so as to avoid stagnation and the dreaded dole line. We are patriotic. We do love Ireland, but, Ireland can no longer support us.

    Reply
  • Those of us left behind will be working for years to pay for civil servants massive pensions. Another reason to be cheerful.

    Reply
    • If you paid into a pension you would get one too.

      Reply
    • Public servants pay very little for their pensions. The taxpayer is left to pick up the tab.

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    • To say nothing of the 0.6% that was taken out of every private pension pot in last years budget. Kind of makes you think what’s the point? I’ll be mature, save for old age, lock it up until I’m 65 then FG/Lab come along and take a cut to hand over to gobsh1te Aherne, gombeen Cowan etc at the rate of €150k a year. As if they didn’t get enough in brown envelopes at Galway.

      Reply
    • You say the “taxpayers” as if public servants don’t pay tax too

      Reply
    • This obsession with scapegoating public servants is a cul de sac. The vast majority of public servants end up with pensions comparable to the state old age pension, to which that are not entitled. Those at the top, fair enough have large pensions but are in a minority. Civil and public service jobs were open to everyone, the thing is that most with a degree turned their noses at public service employment in favour of the money offered at the time in the private sector plus bonus. It’s only since the party has ended that the focus has turned now to public servants, social welfare recipients and a host of other targets. Conveniently it takes the focus off those that ruined the country. The financial organisations. When you speak about the public set ice remember its not just police, nurses and the fire brigade. Your ability to function in an ordered society is dependent upon them. Your food, water and sanitation are quality controlled for example. The thronging hoards of unemployed depend on them to deliver social welfare and somewhere at the top, a minority have the fond pensions you talk about.

      Reply
  • The average industrial wage in oz is $72,000 and the weather is brilliant so ya can hardly blame people who wanting to take the flight

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  • I lost my job last week, due to the Credit Crunch.

    Today, the bank (whose chief executives created this mess by lending irresponsibly) foreclosed on my mortgage, so the house I’ve been saving up for and paying into for the last 8 years no longer belongs to me.

    I went to the dole office to find out if all that tax I’ve been paying will go any way towards helping me get something to eat next week. They told me to get to the back of the queue, there were ‘priority cases’ just off the boat in front of me.

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  • Being honest, this negative, sycophantic blame-game that we’ve been engaged in for the past 4 years gets to me. Whether it’s here, Facebook, YouTube, Irishtimes.ie or wherever, people seem to throw out abusive, inflammatory and insulting remarks about people, politicians mostly, who usually don’t deserve to be the victim of such vile commentary. Quite a lot of it is politically motivated, particularly with regard to a certain cross-border party, which is worrying in itself, but a lot of it seems to be young people who want to find someone to blame, demonise and crucify. Yes, we have a right to be angry, a lot of reckless and terrible stuff has happened in this country, but there’s a difference between righteous, constructive and solution-focused anger and the unengaged, miserable and vindictive stuff you hear on various fora every single day.

    I don’t know about you all, but when I was young I was told that if I had a problem, I sorted it out myself insofar as I could and didn’t wait for someone else to do it for me. I choose to believe we’re going to get out of the mess we’re in, and I’m certainly going to try and be a part of it. I consider it a virtue to have staying-power and determination, so I’m not bailing out of this ship yet.

    righteous, constructive

    Reply
    • TiUtter BS Sarah. We are under attack by economic terrorism and you better get that into your head. None if this is some sort of culmination of incompetent decisions. Its a well laid plan to saddle free thinking societies with debt to give a minority a large stick to control you with. I’m not being nice to traitor collaborator politicians or bankers.

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    • censored 06/09/12 #

      They do deserve it. Let me know when you’ve come up with a solution.

      Reply
    • It’s a virtue to have staying power and determination if your cause is just, and fixing the country is a just cause, but Ed is right, the country is being ransacked and the government is complicit in the process, as is most of the population thanks to the yes vote of that last referendum. Just heard on Newstalk this morning that the government is now looking at what public services can be privatised. It’s game over now. But it’ll be grand right? Ireland will be back in the bond markets in two years, and the state will be privatised. Good job!

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  • “If people would stop leaving and moving away it would be easier for the ones who have to stay. If we were all still here we could carry the weight but a few people can’t support an entire state.”

    Can someone please explain to me how by staying in a country which can NO LONGER AFFORD to keep its young people can help carry the weight and support of an entire state?!!! In what possible way can these young people do this? With the 180 euro a week that we must beg for, that we must jump through hoops for and then may not even get it?!! Or maybe we should ask for it off our parents – a 25 year old who can not afford to move out on their own, a 26 year old with a Degree and Masters behind them who cannot find gainful employment, yes lets ask our parents who are already struggling to support themselves, keep their homes and keep a family in clothes and food – yes lets burden them some more because we are not embarrassed enough that we cannot at our age go it alone or angry that our Government has put us in this position.

    Or how about the alternative – leave our country and not out of a lack of “patriotism or loyalty to a country suffering depression”, I might add, but out of necessity. These individuals are emigrating, yes some will end up leaving permanently the majority will not – the majority leave to find work, to gain experience in their relative fields so when it is possible to return home will bring excessive skills and opportunities back with them to a country which will be trying to re-establish themselves and one that will hopefully have learned from past mistakes and will grow, prosper to be the envy of the world once more. I might also add that these young people who have “left” you deal with this burden send money home to their stuggling families, which in turn is re-circulated back into the economy this I do believe is helping relieve the burden of an entire state – this is money I would not have to give had I not emigrated, and when we do eventually return to the homeland do you think we will be coming back empty handed?!

    The above article I find completely and utterly out of line – how dare my patrotism or loyalty to my country be questioned by a person who compares iphone batteries dying to an individual having to leave their country, their family, their friends and ultimately their life in a bid to better themselves and opt not to be at a depressed party in Ireland. Perhaps the above author would like to replace St Patrick as our Patron Saint, it can be an award for martyrdom! It would also appear that the author is similar to the people in her audience – we all know what happened in Ireland, should it not be how we fix it and stop these young people leaving that should be questioned?!

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  • 26 years ago my wife and I made a decision to send our kids to the German school in Dublin giving them a way out of this country. It has come to pass – one is in the US, one in the UK, both have post grad degrees and my daughter left on Monday for her Erasmus in Berlin and has already decided she loves it. I don’t understand what all the fuss is about.

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  • Ireland will always be home. But it is a home that cannot offer opportunities, security, or a future. We leave by choice, but it is still a choice that is forced by our own desires to make something of ourselves and our lives and offer a brighter future for our own kids like the ones we experienced growing up in the 90s/00s. Maybe we are the lucky ones, the ones who can afford to leave.
    Perhaps the ones that stay have family to look after, mortgages that are more than their home is worth, or simply those that are unable to save enough of what is left after their dole money has been spent feeding themselves, their kids and paying for X amount of bills to afford the price of a flight.
    More and more of us will continue to leave unless Ireland starts building towards the future, and stops living in the now like we did during the Celtic Tiger. Our Government needs to learn from the past and start. We need to ensure that those people who are responsible for our downfall are made accountable for their actions, and put in place policies that don’t allow for this kind of recklessness to happen again. If our government continue to look for the quick fix measures then we will just continue to fill in the ‘potholes’ and be left with this mess again.

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  • I love Ireland, but I’m not sure if I believe in putting my life on hold until the Government fixes the mistakes made by careless governments before them. I had a choice to have a better life, and I took that. When I am in a position to, I will return to the country I love the most. But not until I am positive I won’t be a burden on the state and have to sign on. I just don’t see the point.

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  • I’ve seen it all around this country, no vibrancy, no young 20-30yrs people packing the pubs in small towns, these young educated bright minded next decade gates/jobs/page/brin/zuck’s entrepreneurs all fine for other countries to profit off, it’s a crying shame but inevitable that they are not fostered here, I myself emigrated in1990, now I see my eldest child’s friends move away and she’s faced with the choice when she finishes college what should she do, I’ve told her to start looking overseas as I don’t agree with being a burden on the taxpayer and certainly now with an ever dwindling tax base.

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  • This country through its government policies has failed to show loyalty to its young people, sidelining us on the jobs market to pay for the mistakes of the previous generation. How can we and why should we stay?
    Yours
    An Irish patriot

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  • Ask not what ur country can do for you but what u can do for your country. Complete bull! Who wants to leave their own home, family, friends, life everything to know and love to go and find work in a strange lad? Very few in my opinion. Who runs Ireland and has done for the last 25 years? The banks! It hasn’t been a true FREE land for quite a while. This article makes me angry and sad for those delusions into thinking that we owe those who destroyed our country not only our working or in this case, non working lives… But our dignity as well. Don’t think so.

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  • It’s been said that a mind is a terrible thing to waste, I left in 85 at the age of 20 and have been in the USA ever since. There have been up’s and down’s here also. Nothing was handed to me here but I have had a wonderful time earning what I do have. Could I have been as lucky if I had stayed at home, that I’ll never know but I don’t regret the decision. We are after all inhabitants of earth and we owe it to future generations to make sure it is still here for them. Final comment, let’s not be selfish, as so many of the comments and even the article itself is far too much about “ME”.

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    • Let’s all return with our hand out and if things are bad now watch this space. The government would not like us to descend on Ireland.If the people there through no fault of there own can not get a job then what hope for all the returning. Where is the payment coming from to pay us the dole perhaps extra tax or a new tax or whatever new word they would like to call it.

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  • I don’t understand these ”there are no jobs in Ireland’ comments. Then what are all the job advertised on the Irish job websites? Do they not exist? I live in New Zealand at the moment but am planning to return to Ireland this December. I know several people who have returned to Ireland in the last year and they have all got jobs within a couple of months, working in a variety of different sectors – engineering, teaching, media and IT. Though they are earning less than what the would have during the ‘boom’ they cannot understand this ‘no jobs’ talk. As my brother said ‘There are jobs, just some young people spend more time complaining and moaning and giving out about the government then they do actually getting off their ass and doing something proactive to actually help themselves.’ I just wonder, all these young people on the dole, how many hours a day are they spending actually proactively looking for work? Probably far less time than they spend pissing and moaning about the economy…

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  • So, I wrote this and I’m really glad the reaction is so strong. I’m not saying I am better for staying. I’m just saying its really tough because not only do you have all the austere measures to deal with but you’re doing it without your friends. It’s just all a bit shit. Please come see the show. http://Www.fringefest.com

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    • It may be sh*t, but, in that case, sh*t is what’s normal for the vast majority of people on this planet. I don’t mean to sound callous, but we’ve been spoilt over the last twenty years. That wasn’t normal. Now we’re back to being where we stated from, similar to but slightly better off than the majority of the ex-clonies. That’s the historical reality. Bad as it is here, you can make something of it as long as you have realistic expectations.

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    • Sorry, colonies.

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    • Stephanie, why would you eat dinner in a pharmacy? Strange choice for the photo. Am I missing something?

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    • If it’s a bit shit then change it. I its your life, you only get one shot at it. Don’t expect those charlatans in government to sort it out for you. They’re content enough with things as they are.

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    • Thanks guys. Paul and stephen ya I know you only get one shot and I know that it’s up to me to make my life the best it can be but there are huge factors keeping me here. Also the show is about an unhealthy relationship with solpadeine and depression. Hence the dinner in the pharmacy. Solpadeine is my boyfriend x

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  • “there are too many people” that the reason for a hell of allot of the problems that she mentioned at the end. Global population reduction is drastically need in the next 50 years or things will get allot worse then what we are experiencing now. Humanity is sitting on the edge of a crevice and one more mush will have us over the edge.

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    • @Jason How do you propose we reduce the population?

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    • Don’t worry about population control. The coming Zombie apocalypse will thin out the numbers.

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    • There aren’t too many people in Ireland.

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    • Population? This comment makes no sense and is a tad dramatic. China is the only country where population is a genuine concern, no where else. Economic growth arises mainly as a result of population growth resulting in increased demand, and technological advances. And in the absence of any new “Eurika” inventions, growth of Ireland’s independent population could ease the pressures, provided the moronic government implement a sound strategic direction for what is currently a very stagnant workforce

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    • China is the only country that has controlled its population. It has one of the lowest growth rates in the world. India will soon overtake China. The Rwandan genocide (8000, 000) was largely caused by the sudden growth in population.
      We don’t need to reduce the population just cap it at 6-7 billion. Otherwise nature will find a way to reduce it for us (war, famine, plague etc.)

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  • Am I the only one who fails to see the connection between emigration and patriotism?Unless,obviously,you are an ex-monarch living in exile or rebel leader hiding from the authorities…

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  • “Free” education? Perhaps if you are lucky enough to have grown up within walking distance to a university and lived rent- and living costs-free with your parents throughout your degree – a demographic I found much overrepresented during my far-from free degree – that was true. Even before the registration fees shot up, university was never free and access to education has always been appallingly skewed in favour of the upper middle classes.

    Loving a country is all very well but this country is unlikely to love you back. I’m not trying to be negative or attack the author’s point of view, merely to impress that many people in this country are in a desperate situation. Not much room for ideals like patriotism when your life is a daily struggle to survive. The author writes well of what she sees in the people she herself is surrounded by, but most of us have been far more hurt by this country than we have benefited. And please stop talking about “free” education. It was free to very few, even when times were good.

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  • If they’d rather emigrate, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population.
    Good night, gentlemen.

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  • Mark 06/09/12 #

    Enjoyed reading that!

    It’s shameful that it hasn’t been addressed. Politicians walk around without a care in the world while families are split up because one had to leave for work. Country ran by self centred clowns.

    Good luck with the play!

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  • We shouldn’t feel responsible if we simply vote FG / FF / LAB. There are alternatives to these selfish-minded, corrupt governments.

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    • Do you mean Sinn Fein and their populist “disagree with whatever the Goverment says” policies?

      The options available to Irish voters are slim. We don’t have a genuine left-right divide in Irish politics. We have faux-left wing parties that are more akin to the extreme right (Sinn Fein) or else voiceless cranks as Independents masquerading as political parties.

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    • Sham 05/09/12 #

      Gary has hit the rather depressing nail on it’s rather depressing head.

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  • There should be no free third level education. If this country educates someone for 4 or 5 years in collage them they should be made pay back the cost if they leave the country. If the person stays in the country then the repayments should be just a fraction of those that flee as they are contributing to society here.

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    • How do you make someone pay back the cost of a degree when THERE ARE NO JOBS!!!

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    • Z? 05/09/12 #

      @ Lizzie – the faux pre-raphaelite picture isn’t helping your case. A decadent upper-class indulging itself in a last-ditch binge before the entitled old-money upper class fades into non-existence. Is that what you identify with? Really? When you say that there’s no jobs, have you applied to McDonalds? Have you applied. To stock shelves at Abrakebabra, Dunnes, Tesco, Aldi or Lidl? I know it doesn’t fit with swooning, consumptive romanticism, but it’s a job. Less outrage, more graft. Are you really that much better than an Asian, African or Eastern European that you won’t stoop to their level? Less outrage, more graft please.

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    • Aleo 06/09/12 #

      That should certainly change things, as people emigrate at seventeen or eighteen upon leaving school instead of waiting until they are in their twenties, choosing to pay student fees to the UK or some other European country rather than allow that sort of financial straitjacket to be put on their future life choices. Another social change would involve more families opting to leave Ireland with children at a far younger age, to give them home base and schooling in countries more willing and able to educate them. You will find few emigrants who do not love Ireland. But if policies like the one you outline are introduced, “fleeing” the country will be the most intelligent option. And they will take it.

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    • censored 06/09/12 #

      I don’t agree with “free third level education”, but let’s face it – after repeatedly failing our youth maybe it’s the least we can do!

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    • Michael 06/09/12 #

      I agree. Then there’d be no free loaders, no wasted space in colleges and it would actually put people through legit degrees, not just arts students on a path to nothingness.

      Maybe some people just can’t correlate this reckless gov’t spending and waste.

      Social Welfare should also be means tested, properly.

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    • It’s not a free education. Your parents are paying for it through their taxes. The money doesn’t just appear and land in the university’s pocket. It’s a part of the unspoken understanding between citizen and state where taxes are paid in exchange for certain social goods, one of which is a ‘free’ university education.

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  • I’m starting to think emigration only stings so much because of how we treated and viewed the immigrants into our country over the last decade… It’s now reality Irish people have to face the fact that they are no better than the people coming into this country that they used to look down…

    Happiness has been confirmed as your position relative to others in society… We have lost that superior edge and we are sore losers indeed

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  • Jason I agree way to many people on this planet one child rule should be world wide our we shall soon be in big trouble to have more than tw o children in this day and age is a selfish act. But we wont learn. And all mankind has done is destroy and we have had a long run at it so we should be great full because god knows we have taking a lot of others out along the way

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    • Whos this we? I personally haven’t destroyed this planet and neither have a lot of other people? You also want a one child policy to be enforced so noone can have brothers & sisters? You eco fascists are a messed up bunch

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    • Well said Graeme. Over population is a myth propagated by the 1% who don’t wat to share their 99%. Anybody who genuinely believes that we humans need culling is sick. Start culling the bankers first and you will solve most if the worlds ills. War, debt famine, poverty. “Its the bankers Stupid”

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    • @ Ed Yep it is all eugenics funded by big wealthy tax exempt foundations or the 1% as you put it.The birth rates in developed countries is dropping as people have less kids thus having smaller families.The entire worlds population today could fit into the entire continent of australia with each person having a quarter of an acre to grow their own food.That leaves the entire rest of the planet unpopulated.

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    • Graham
      Have you ever been to Australia? You couldn’t grow anything in 90% of the place

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    • @tom i knew someone would bring that up.i know most of australia is desert but i was using it as an example of size.

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  • Socrates said…”He is a man of courage who does not run away, but remains at his post and fights against the enemy.” Yes the country is in a bad place, but please stay, please stay and help fix the problems. It may take a generation to do it, but it can be done. And the more we have to help, the quicker it will be.

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    • Aleo 05/09/12 #

      It takes quite some courage to emigrate, and the need for that only multiplies as the emigrants grow older. Therefore, I think Socrates would suggest some careful thought before you describe them as “running away”. In the dialogue from which you quoted, he goes on to examine the definition of courage as staying at one’s post, and makes the people he is addressing consider the possibility that blind courage is nothing more than “foolish endurance” – staying in a hopeless situation through lack of knowledge or hope. Those who choose emigration often do so because they feel that the alternative would be foolish endurance. That is their opinion, and their definition of courage. It is as much a part of Irish identity as the 1916 Proclamation.

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    • Why? I’ve waited for some sign of courage but the general population in Ireland has taken every opportunity to follow the coward’s path and bend the knee to their “betters”. We’re how many years into the crisis now? What has changed? Has anyone been held accountable? If the “system” is at fault, what’s been changed?

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    • Nice words Paddy. Irish people are good, decent and talented. But, unfortunately your politicians, to the bone, are anything but.

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  • Z? 05/09/12 #

    Does a house part mean what it used to; dancy dancy lovey lovey the dawn started four hours ago, or just it just mean sitting in someone’s gaff. That’s not a party, that’s just a cheap replacement for a night down the local nursing the cheapest pint on offer.

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  • I really like the way you write. I don’t understand ¨Another one of my friends¨ in the first paragraph, though. Is this the complete version?

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  • Some interesting young people who are choosing to stay in Ireland….. http://www.archipelago.ie/

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  • I kinda got a feeling from this piece that the Author seems resentful in some way towards all the people with their “free” degrees leaving for Australia. I was lucky enough to get a job through my free degree and have probably paid back in full what I owe for that by way of tax BIK etc. so I owe nothing as far as I’m convened. If I had left for Canada or Australia I would most definitely feel like the country had failed
    -

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