WOW! A useful debate about drugs. How many TDs have we gone through over the years without the conversation even happening. Hundreds. It is with people like Ming that you get proper debates. You need people openly talking about things that are not easy to hear for others like drugs, sexuality, disability, religion (or non religion), immigration, race, gender and more. Stoke the fires of debate or we end up as a society of fools.
I take Ming a million times over the style of “Jackie Healy-Rae” default-to GAA & church loving ignoramus any day of the week.

I have no dog in this fight since I don’t smoke anything, my poison of choice being solely alcohol.

Please explain to be the logic that cannabis should be banned while tobacco should be legal (since you are a smoker, I presume you think it shouldn’t be criminalised). I can see the libertarian argument for legalised both. I can see the health argument for banning both. But to arbitrarily argue that one should be legal and the other criminalised strikes me as simply woolly-minded thinking solely based on making laws based on tradition.

P.

You’ve gotten caught up in the same irrelevant argument. You are arguing about cannabis’s merits as if we’re deciding whether or not we should invent it. The simple fact is that people do use cannabis and Ming is campaigning for people not to be locked up for putting themselves in a moderately dangerous situation. One thing that both sides (should) agree on is that a few months in prison is no cure for the mental health issues that one MIGHT develop.

What we need is a debate about which is a better situation: People using contaminated, poor quality cannabis or people using regulated, legal cannabis and not getting a criminal record for their own personal vices.

Dear Dave how about a follow up article on smoking and alcohol? Lets then have a debate about legalising or criminalising alcohol, tobacco and weed together?

Quote:
‘Stoner’s Theory of Relativity’
Stoners don’t generally make great students,
Why do stoners have such a problem accepting that dope is bad for your health? End Quote:

Lovely terms.
Similar to alco for drinkers.
nice to know my ould lad is an alco.

And the doozy…

Quote:
Not all cannabis smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.End Quote:

I could easily say….

Not all Tobbacco smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.

or

Not all drinkers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.

or

Not all gamers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.

What a ridiculous article.There are so many errors I don’t know where to start. Smoking a joint with copybook paper? I seriously doubt that actually happened. Its like drinking a pint out of a cardboard cup. Possible but highly improbable.

“I’ve smoked it a handful of times since then, always when I’ve had too much to drink. I’ve always felt sick as a poisoned rat afterwards. Weed is not for me.” So he was polluted drunk and he tried another drug? If I smoke a fag while drunk, I quite often get sick and feel horrible. Ever hear don’t mix drink? Same thing applies here.

” I’d say that I’ve never found the ‘pro’ arguments convincing. Not least the argument I call the ‘Stoner’s Theory of Relativity’ (aka ‘Story’). This is the claim that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco and should be legalised. It’s a top-of-the-head non-argument, which is seldom backed up with anything other than “surveys have shown”.” When would you prefer your health research from, the ’60s or today? Or how about the Victorian era?” In the U.K. last year(modern enough),the governments chief adviser on drugs Dr. Nut called for marijuana to be legalised. His scientific tests have concluded that Cannabis is far less harmful than tobacco and alcohol. I believe someone with a science degree over a journalism degree any day.

The risks that you associated with Cannabis can be used for alcohol as well. You claim that it is a harmful substance used while pregnant. Caffeine is bad for you when your pregnant. Practically every stimulant has negative effects on a unborn fetus. Gutter journalism right there.

“New methods of production have increased the potency and negative effects … It is important to understand cannabis potency because of its link to health problems including mental health.” While you didnt write this and its a quote you still chose to include this in your article. Of course it is important to know how strong the weed your smoking is. I’ll just ask my dealer…..Oh wait. He doesn’t have a clue nor does he care. In Prohibition Era America it wasn’t uncommon for people to die from drinking bootlegged alcohol due to the consumer not knowing what was in it. While you won’t die from smoking a joint in prohibition Ireland, you may very well be ingesting ingredients that are not native to the cannabis plant such as glass, lead fillings etc. This is 100% due to prohibition and lack of quality control.

“Ming seems to be an amiable, hard-working family man. He’s a hugely entertaining addition to the Dail. He’s dogged, determined, witty and articulate”. At least you got something right. Congratulations.

“Why do stoners have such a problem accepting that dope is bad for your health?” Do we? I know smoking Cannabis is certainly not good for my health. I know that drinking coffee, drinking alcohol, eating too many bananas, drinking too much water, taking paracetamol are all bad for me. We are not idiots. What I do know is that smoking Cannabis in Ireland is infinitely worse than smoking somewhere like California, where Cannabis is properly grown with quality control and doesn’t contain materials that I would use to insulate my house.

“At what age can you start smoking cannabis”. 18. The same as the minimum age for alcohol sales here. Everyone knows that people under 18 drink quite often. Imagine if alcohol was illegal and the only people that sold it were drug dealers. It would be a lot easier for people under 18 to get alcohol if it was in the hands of dealers. The same applies to Cannabis. You want to protect young people. Good. Legalise it. Drug dealers do not care whether your 12 or 20. Legitimate business owners who actually gave a damn about the law do.

“The ‘pros’ say legalising will take drug dealing out of the hands of criminals. Will it? Or will they just undercut the legal suppliers, in the same way cigarette smugglers do?” They very well could undercut legitimate sellers. However, I and I would imagine most people would prefer to buy from a reliable source where you are guaranteed what you are getting is what it says on the tin. When prohibition was repealed in America, everybody started buying legal alcohol again.

“Not all cannabis smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.” People graduating on to heroin generally are unstable individuals in the first place. This whole gateway drug is an argument that seriously annoys me. Never once have I been stoned and thought to myself ” I wouldnt mind some coke”. However, on alcohol you lose your inhibitions and do things that you wouldn’t usually do.

“Ming is suggesting cannabis legalisation is a Civil Rights issue. It’s not. It’s a health issue. ” Its actually both. Why should anyone else tell me what I can or can’t do as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else. It’s a mixture of rights and responsibilities. It is a massive health issue too. A large amount of people in this country use Cannabis. Cannabis that contains foreign ingredients that are far, far more harmful than the cannabis itself. Drug dealers do not care about my health or negative affects from smoking their “sprayed” Cannabis. I do and so should my government.

“His crusade is not a Civil Rights issue like Norris’s. It’s about Luke wanting to get stoned, that’s all. It’s about personal gain.
And we’ve had enough of politicians lying and spinning for personal gain. Haven’t we Deputy Flanagan?”

Ming’s “Crusade” has absolutely nothing to do with personal gain. He could have stayed under the radar and continued to grow and smoke his own Cannabis. However, instead of just sitting back, he stood up and made himself counted. Luke doesn’t want to just “get stoned”. He wants to make a serious difference in this country. Personal gain is a cheap shot. He took a 50% pay cut. Personal gain is far far from his agenda. We have had enough of politicians lying for personal gain. We have also had enough of bad journalism and old attitudes. As you point out, people used to believe smoking tobacco was good for you. We laugh at that now. One day, we will look back and laugh at articles like this when Cannabis was illegal and people had out of date attitudes in a country that is still clearly stuck in the past. Cannabis has been in use for thousands of years and will be for thousands more. Prohibition does not work and that is a fact. If you give me one example of prohibition working I will eat my hat.

Richard

Former US Surgeon General talks about why marijuana should be legalised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXUkUtofQDA

I think you are being a little harsh on Ming, it seems to me that he’s fighting an uphill battle to convince people of his point and do it all in a short soundbite that can get across to more people, in an attempt to change the general perception on marijuana, which for the most part is one of general ignorance, weed being lumped in with all illegal drugs and therefore almost automatically stigmatized.

As to the personal gain argument, I think it makes sense that smokers should be the ones who feel victimized and therefore be the ones who feel they have reason to buck the system. For Ming, this goes all the way back to the nineties when he first began to feel like this law was unjust towards casual smokers who were being prosecuted for their habit, a habit which though perhaps harmful from a health perspective, is at least, I would argue, fairly socially harmless.

To get a glimpse of Ming’s early experiences of the law, have a look at this film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUUDjbqu3M

Quote:
I’ve smoked it a handful of times since then, always when I’ve had too much to drink. I’ve always felt sick as a poisoned rat afterwards. Weed is not for me.

I stopped having any respect for the piece when I read this.
Should have read “mixing intoxicants is not for me” or “a heap of pints and a spliff”
A joke of a piece.

A proper evidence based dicussion on Cannabis and other drugs is well overdue. Ming getting elected may kickstart this. About time.

I’ve smoked the herb over ten years and still going strong. Regardless of the prohibited status I’ll still smoke it. The only crime here is the Government ain’t taxing it. A drug by its definition is man made. The herb is naturally grown. Think of the revenue the government will make from selling the herb! rather than getting into the hands of the black market.

Ultimately, the herb is here to stay! (there is no way you can stop plant) I’ll stick that in my pipe and smoke it :)

Why is every person a “stoner”? I think your an alcoholic because you drink alcohol. Doesn’t work nor sound nice. Now even if a law abiding person does come in contact with a stoner, how am I harming that person. By being in the presence of a stoner they are being harmed? I actually laughed when I read that. Its like something you would hear in a 60′s anti-drug video in an American high school.

It’s grand saying that Cannabis is just as harmful as alcohol and tobacco, even though there is no evidence to prove or disprove it but the reason there is no evidence to disprove it is because it would show to be correct, that the pure form of cannabis is not harmful. Only when it’s mixed with tobacco does it become harmful.

You’re completely biased and it’s amazing that some people actually agree with you. Look out your window on a Saturday night, do you see drunk people falling around the streets or stoners falling around the streets?? Go to any hopspital, do you see people dying from lung cancer from smoking cigarettes or do you see people dying from smoking cannabis?? Look at the death rates of alcohol, look at the death rates of tobacco, compare them to the death rates of cannabis users. What do you see?? The Truth. Not 1 single person in the history or mankind has died from smoking or ingesting cannabis, compared to the countless amounts of people that have died from Alcohol and Tobacco, if you’re looking for evidence there it is right there, don’t be such an ignorant human being all your life, open your eyes look at the facts and then make an opinion. Just because you pulled a whitener when you were 16. You shouldnt have smoked it in the first place if you’re so against it.

An extraordinarily ill informed and prejudiced attack on cannabis. It amazes me that a journalist who should be so well informed can be such a propaganda victim.

In the UK, by an analysis of therapeutic ratios, hospital admissions, psychosis incidence and mortality, cannabis is 2953 times safer than alcohol.

The prohibition of cannabis is both a health and a civil rights issue but more important than either of those is that it’s a matter of common sense. The absurd, wasteful, irrational and plain dumb policy of prohibition is also blatantly cruel for those who are denied the medicine they need.

Please Mr Kenny, your ignorance is embarrassing.

The article smacks of stereotype and dislike for ‘lazy stoners’. The irony is that he is trying to school us from his wealth of knowledge as it pertains to smoking copy book paper and taking drugs when absoloutely pig drunk. Give me a break.

The law against Cannabis does more harm than the substance itself. THIS IS A FACT. IT IS NOT OPEN TO DEBATE. Garda hours wasted, taxpayer money wasted, cell space in jails wasted, contaminated cannabis that could be doing huge unseen harm to people, criminals growing fast and easy hydroponic, NON NATURAL weed with high levels of racey, panic inducing CBD at the expense of whittling out CBD [Cannabidiol - an antipsychotic and the second most important chemical component in Cannabis].

These are all the negative effects of the LAW against the substance. Now let’s examine the negative effects of the substance itself :

- It can bring out underlying mental health problems in a small minority of vulnerable people.
- It can make lazy idiots … slightly more lazy and idiotic than they already would have been.
- … sometimes you may watch bad TV a lot?

Yeah. Cool, bro. But what are my saying. These are just whacky stoner arguments. Have your pint in peace whilst I – against the law – go about my much quiter, much safer business indoors.

Then come back and tell me it’s not a civil rights issue.

I don’t smoke Canabis and I very rarely drink but I am all for legalising it,

The one thing I hate about towns in Ireland is load mouths urinating and puking on the streets and let’s not forget all the acts of violence. If Canabis was legalised all of this would be reduced

There are also many benefits such as

- Funky coffee shops would open as oppose to manky bars.

- More restaurants / fast food merchants would open to cater for people getting the muncie’s!

- TOURISM will sky rocket!!! And as a result business’s will flourish

- Back backers traveling Europe will stop skipping Ireland as it will be an interesting place go out of their way to visit.

This is a win win opportunity for Ireland and we need to act on this.

Amsterdam is a very pleasant place to visit and I love visiting the coffee shops and let me stress “I don’t even smoke the stuff” It has such a calm soothing feel to it and we need some of that over here.

I declare this can o worms officially OPEN.

I’ve only put two and two together now. The guy who wrote this article is Grainne Kenny’s son, folks.

Enough said, I think.

Full decriminalisation of all drugs appears to have worked in Portugal. I just can’t get my head around the fact that government wants to control what I put in my own body – that should be up to me and me alone. Let’s face it if early explorers had brought marijuana back instead of tobacco then it would be legal and we’d now probably be having a discussion about legalising tobacco. A lot of thinking in the US & UK is moving more towards allowing drugs as a controlled substances. I think it’s about time the drugs issue and pros and cons of legalisation were discussed properly. Let’s not forget it’s not long since opium was legal and even advertised in the national press.

David mentions the WHO’s ‘claimed harmful effects’ but doesn’t mention ‘Therapeutic uses of cannabinoids’ one inch down the same reference page. There are no primary data sources or stated research methodologies and metrics from the WHO.

People rarely understand the origins of these statistics. These are from the USA, a country where if you are asleep in a parked car and a sober person (100% at fault) crashes into you the police write it into the database as an alcohol related accident.

We need better more transparent research and a discussion on what freedoms society wants. Some US states want to introduce an alcohol and drugs licence so people can drink at 18 down from the federally restricted 21. Contrast the USA with France where parents teach their children about the responsible taking of drugs.

This question is best understood through Adam Curtis’s ‘The Trap’ series on BBC, and on Berlin’s view on positive versus negative freedom.

Like I said in my comment Mark, rights and responsibilities.Your legalise theft rapre and murder comment is laughable. If it doesn’t harm someone else and I am of sound and stable mind, then I believe that I should be able to make my own decisions. If someone outlawed meat tomorrow would you just accept it and move on? Just because it is illegal doesn’t mean it should be.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8393838/War-on-drugs-has-failed-say-former-heads-of-MI5-CPS-and-BBC.html

Ming was referring to the latest who report on the harmfulness of cannabis and other drugs including tobacco and alcohol

Cannabis is proven to be not physically addictive, which would make it less addictive than coffee and crisps
As far as harmful during pregnancy that is a non issue, most prescription drugs are harmful during pregnancy that obviously dosnt mean they should be banned, it is obviously the mothers responsibility what to intake and what not to.

Also any “fact” you hear that includes “may” or “can” is a ridiculous cop out as it is therefore not proven to do the things its insinuated to do.

As far as Long-term smoking damages the trachea and major bronchi there are many 100 pc safe ways to intake cannabis, also the cannabis smoke is nowhere near as damaging to the lungs as cigarette smoke is which is deemed safe enough to tax and sell.

Cannabis potency is by far the silliest argument, as cannabis is one of the least toxic substances with a possible overdose being the equivalent of 20 thousand joints in one hour by which point you would be asleep, higher potency simply means you have to smoke less to get the same effect. It is ridiculous to say in the 60’s people only got mildly high but now due to higher potencies people get dangerously higher. There are no dangerous levels of cannabis.

“Not all cannabis smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will” – More people would have started harder drugs after drinking milk growing up than smoking cannabis (simple but true answer for a stupid scare statement) if there is a link in the graduating from cannabis to harder drugs gateway theory it would be that drug dealers who sell cannabis often sell harder drugs thus pushing them on people and giving them greater access to them. Which in my opinion then would make more sense in taking the sale out of the hands of drug dealers.

“Ming is suggesting cannabis legalisation is a Civil Rights issue. It’s not. It’s a health issue. “ While I agree that it is a health issue as cannabis has been proven to be an effective medicine for treating glaucoma, loss of appetite and pain relief it is also a civil rights issue as people who need this drug to better their quality of life are being denied their basic right to human dignity Please look at the last two minutes of this video it shows first hand it medical benifits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmt3mtWfDcI&feature=related (7:50 mark) . Also as a recent court ruling in Italy stated cannabis is engrained in Rastafarians religious beliefs, they use it to meditate and pray to god, I would expect that the basic right to practice your fully recognised religion should be upheld in such a developed country like ours.

Im glad you like Ming and praise him for his articulateness but to say he is doing this just so he can get stoned is ludicrous as im sure you can imagine hes been doing that for years now and as he states he grows his own plant so there isn’t much gain for him personally and it really is a health issue for many people

First off I would like to thank you for writing this article as more discussion is needed on the topic and a lot of the bigger daily publications seem to shy away from the controversial topic. I would appreciate if David Kenny would respond to this as ive taken a bit of time to write what I think are sensible and fair comments, and im keen to hear any logical feedback from anyone else too.

If anyone is looking for a little bit more information on the topic an excellent fair and highly informative documentary is Called “The Union” can be watched here
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007
or here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoK6NztH3eQ

We’re here, we’re high, get used to it.

”Campaigners also need to either cop themselves on to (or stop lying about) the fact that cannabis’ potency has changed dramatically over the years. It’s not a ‘harmless little weed’. ”

Therefore it should be legalised so the government can regulate it. The only reason its become like this is because its in the hands of dirty criminals.

Also, you are talking about a ‘non-argument; and you say, ‘Not all cannabis smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will. What constitutes ‘abuse’ in Ming’s view?’

Some people who are born will become psychotic or ‘graduate’ to heroin. Where does cannabis come into this?

To be honest, this story is pure garbage. No attempt to discuss larger problems that are directly attributed to prohibition and criminalisation of people who smoke a plant, and the problems created by all drug use, especially cocaine, alcohol, tobacco and cannabis included.

“The drugs debate is not something I give much thought too”

Well it shows ! Lazy journalism. And we’ve had enough of journalists lying and spinning . Haven’t we Mr Kenny?

I love when people type words in CAPITALS, it always makes me think they’re SHOUTING at the computer.
Legalise it and calm the hell down, hasn’t done the Dutch much harm has it.

Cannabis is only harmful if mixed with cigarettes when it’s smoked, so get a pipe if you want to stay healthy. Hash is the sickest thing you can smoke, give it a wide berth.

If you honestly think that prohibition has worked then…..well, I dunno, maybe you should move to somewhere like China, because you obviously follow the politicianios blindy and they encourage that kind of behaviour in Communist China.

before anybody posts an opinion about cannabis they should research the subject first and i do not mean smoke a joint.
Look at all the evidence for and against then make a choice , thats what a free thinking mind is supposed to do so a few pointers to get you started.
Cannabis is NON TOXIC
Cannabis does not cause cancer in fact it is proven to work against a number of different cancers
The government is already selling Cannabis look up the drug satavex
NOBODY has ever died from a Cannabis overdose
Cannabis does not Cause mental illness in fact it is being proscribed by doctors to treat a large number of P.T.S.D cases something this country needs to face
Cannabis is a Powerful gift that if abused can damage a bit like fire or any other thing you will find in nature unlike tobacco it is very beneficial to the human body unlike alcohol it is non toxic and does not make people want to fight.
unlike the pain medication that people are forced to pay for in both money and health cannabis can be free to grow your own
The problems around cannabis are caused by ignorant laws that trample over the freedom of the individual to make their own choices, laws that have created a multi billion pound crime industry that uses this substance to fund itself and laws that turn people into criminals and locks them away for growing and using a natural plant
do yourself a favour and stop spreading lies that try to find an easy solution to the complex problems that this country faces and try to use the brain god gave you to research this subject before you show the world how much of an ignorant fool you are

If you are going to criticise for Ming for not quoting his sources, it might be a good ideas for you to reference yours.
There is so much bullshit on this issue because so many careers are invested in it.
And these ‘experts’ certainly are not getting the stuff available currently, which isn’t a patch on what was around in the 70s. (So I’m told).

Here’s a great documentary of the history of the medical use and recent research into Cannabis, narrated by a Doctor and an Oncologist. This is a movie intended for policy makers and references its sources:
http://marijuanamovie.org/full-documentary/

Medical cannabis has proven benefits for a whole range of conditions and either the oil or smoking is the best way of dosing it as a medicine (see video for details)

There has never been a recored death from cannabis. On the contrary, there are more benefits than harmful effects recorded.

Legalising allows the government to:
- fund drugs rehabilitation and education programmes which actually work in reducing addiction with tax revenue
- protect children from having access to drugs by distribution through licensed premises with age checks.
- keep licensed premises away from schools and kids instead of dealers who’ll sell any crap to anyone.
- Save millions in enforcement and imprisonment costs
- earn millions in tax revenue
- destroy the revenue base of many criminal gangs – think Al Capone.
- earn millions in tourism revenue – recreational and medical (based on cannabis-based therapies)
- explore the massive potential for developing the growth & processing of industrial hemp

Here’s a compelling economic argument from the campaign for Prop 19 in California. The broke nature of the Californian state could easily apply to Ireland too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqp_hPdz4wU

What are we waiting for? Well for a start for an informed press that raises the bar on the debate a good deal higher than Mr. Kenny here.

The kind of garrulous, lazy, half-thought out opinion pieces like this one just serves to add more heat than light to an important debate with it’s half-facts and playing on prejudices and stereotypes masquerading as a ‘valid’ contribution to the issue. I thought TheJournal.ie was going to be a bit more innovative than just recycling these these Sindo-style hack clones.

Luke Flanagan has a mandate. What has David Kenny got?

This article is stupid and ignorant. Dr Sophie Faherty

An old few joints are absolutely no harm whatsoever, have smoked them myself, and it did not lead to ‘hard drugs’. People smoking a few joints do not wreak the same havoc as people who drink too much alcohol and get aggressive, the evidence is there, read the papers or thejournal.ie!

Fair play to Ming. He started a great debate on the cannabis issue. Close to 50 comments here so far.

I don’t think that the argument that Ming’s issue is a personal one is valid, or Jack Gleeson’s assertion that this is a ‘Waste of a good Dáil seat.’

I would argue that this is simply proportional representation. I’m sure Ming isn’t going to sit in the Dáil chamber, with the sole purpose of waiting for the next opportunity to chat to the lads about whether or not he can have a spliff without the fuzz kicking in his front door, but he was elected by a portion of his constituency who wanted him to raise the issues he addressed in his manifesto. A portion of these perhaps, did not care about the issue of marijuana, or were even against its legalisation, but he was elected with his stance on the issue clear. Therefore the proportion of the people that elected him gave him the power to raise the issue in the Dáil. His desire to have the issue debated, out of 166 members of the Dáil would pay respect to the attitude of one one-hundred-and-sixty-sixth of the population of Ireland, in theory. Or one third of the Roscommon-South Leitrim constituency.

I have no desire to smoke marijuana legally myself, but I have no desire to have a relationship (or marriage for that matter) with a person of the same sex, and I have no problem with others doing just that. It seems to be a fairly contentious issue, so why not put it to referendum?

The article itself I find is of poor quality. Lazy would be another way to describe it. Although Mr Kenny tries to form a balanced argument by noting that he doesn’t have a problem with his friends smoking, he undermines this by generalising, referring to all smokers as ‘stoners’, a name which associates marijuana users with unemployed wasters. I know plenty of marijuana users who have taxable incomes. He debates the merits and demerits of legislation, and then undermines this authority in one fell swoop:

‘Age restriction doesn’t work with alcohol, so it won’t work with cannabis.’

Nonetheless, good debate, and good on Ming for being as outspoken as he is. A true independent.

mr kenny to be honnest your what i would call bad experience is mainly because you were smoking copy book paper , id say thats why you didn’t feel so well. By the way a some studies and i will admit to only having watched documentries on the subjects show the thc is what causes the mental problems but with appropriate levels of cbd the other active ingriedient the effects are lessend.
Also i would like to say i agree it is bad for your health but just like alchohol and tobacco people deserve the right to choose for themselves.
Tobacco is way more dangerous and causes many more deaths than any drug on this planet and i have not checked this out but im sure drink is fairly high up there what with drunk drivers or liver poisoning etc.

Another thing i would like to say where as you have some points you are looking at this from the byist perspective and admitedly so am i drugs and the atitudes towards them will never be change.

The unfortunate thing for people with negative or an anti drug perspective is that drugs like weed are so common theese days that every child from the age of 13 upwards is going to experience it.
Seeing how there friends react to the drug will either plant a curiousity in their brain or even make them just realise that since every one is doing it that it must not be bad.

Theese children that i speak of your kids or anyone elses for that matter are the politicians of the furture and with the relaxed atitude most people have to marijuna theese days we are delaying the inevitable,

If it is leaglized it should be under strict guide lines like the control of alcohol or tobacco im not saying it wont trickle down to children but it’s a safer bet than the drug dealers we have now trusting them not to deal to your childeren is the way things are now,

And this opnion of marijuana being a gateway drug is all messed up from my own personal life i can tell you its the drug dealers that get you into other drugs, you dont crave a new buzz or anything but drug dealers will offer you other drugs if i hadn’t gone through drug dealers to get my product i can’t say never but the likely hood of me coming into contact with theese drugs is dramaticly decreas

I totaly agree with you saying stoners are lazy many will not but i have been smoking for about 7 years now and admitedly i am trying to cut down before i finish my course so i will study and do well in my exams, i also agree that there is a dependance with i must also admit i have developed but my father has a dependance for alcohol witch from experience i can tell you is much worse,

Prohibiton never works just look at what happend it the states during the 1920s alot people died and it gave rise to ruthless criminals .

thanks for reading
if you did

Niall Mc Kee

“is entitled to write a piece”

you are missing 2 words after that sentence…….”of” being the first one

This opinion piece bothers me because it alludes to Flanagan’s positive aspects and yet manages to insult him repeatedly. One presumes you think he is intelligent and yet you ruin your smart point (he probably should find better reasons to defend his cause) by representing him as a less that desirable TD.

As my friend just said “Ahern had no bank account. Lowry had nineteen. And they’re both walking away laughing.” – we have bigger problems in this country than people smoking.

This is why i hate columns as opposed to proper articles. We’re usually exposed to poor/inaccurate research, bland opinions and tabloid quality writing.

Good article, reasonably balanced. I’m personally on the fence regarding legalisation, don’t know what the best solution is. I’m not at all suggesting Canabis is harmless but don’t we have bigger issues to deal with? Such as the amount of chemicals in our food and water, these poisons are affecting almost all of us whereas Cannabis is only affecting the those who smoke it. I do believe that Coonan is wasting police time reporting the likes of Flanagan. The law is indeed an ass and any reports from the WHO I’d recommend putting in the bin, remember the WHO are enforcing Codex Alimentarius, to wipe out natural medicine and vitamins.

Absolutely ridiculous article. This is a civil rights issue. The state is telling us what substances we can and cannot put into our bodies because of the effects they will have on our minds. That is Thought Crime and a violation of civil rights and just because every country on the planet does it doesn’t meant that they are correct in doing so. The decriminalization of marijuana is entirely comparable to the decriminalization of homosexuality in this regard as the criminalization of both are merely attempts to regulate human behavior that the state does not agree with.

Cannabis can be used to treat Autism. Anyone got a better idea? I’m all for it.

Google cannabis cures cancer or autism or psychosis and ignore anything any journalist ever says about science.

If you need honest info about drug experiences, try erowid.

If you like cannabis and autism related stories delivered by a ginger cat, like ‘cannabis for autism’ on facebook lol

Ming Flanagan’s Civil Right to get high in his own home is as justifiable as David Norris right to have consensual sex with an adult man. Within the bounds of reason, what adults get up to in their own home is no business of the law.

“Not all cannabis smokers will become psychotic or graduate to heroin. The fact remains, however, that some will.”

This statement is the equivalent to saying “Not all alcohol drinkers will become alcoholics or graduate to heroin but some will” or “Not all coffee drinkers will graduate to methamphetamine but some will”. Not exactly of course, but those statements are in the same spirit as Mr Kenny’s.

It’s the fear and misunderstanding that legalisers have the biggest struggle against.

I completely agree with Mr Kenny’s point that Ming has only been using the information useful to his cause and ignoring anything which puts cannabis in a negative light and that a debate based on the best independently funded studies is what we need.

The problem with cannabis is that there is a massive demand for it that does not go away by making it illegal, prohibition doesn’t work. Just look at prohibition of alcohol in America, what resulted was a new criminal element involving violence and a threat to alcohol users health because of the dodgy practices of the people providing the product (which should ring bells for anyone who has heard of hashish with all kinds of nasty chemicals in it to make it go further).

The response to this is always anecdotal stories about a young lad who lost his mind or something, well everything from video games to gambling to shopping have caused people serious problems. The scientific argument must look at the evidence on a larger scale.

It is a civil rights issue in one way; should the government be allowed to prosecute someone for their choice of drug? I don’t think anyone, including Ming, is saying drug use is a positive thing but it’s part of human nature and a very complex debate.

Personally I think I’d rather live in a libertarian state then the nanny state we currently live in.

All the health problems you stated about cannabis can be said about smoking and alcohol + they are both more addictive, alcohol can damage you liver, give you a bear belly, increase levels of aggression, then there’s cigarettes which have tar, a carcinogen (substance that causes cancer), nicotine is addictive and increases cholesterol levels in your body, carbon monoxide reduces oxygen in the body, components of the gas and particulate phases cause chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder (COPD).

I fail to see how you disproved the argument that cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes!
having these two legal we can do real studies on them and find out exactly what they do to us, people are going to do cannabis whether its illegal or not, so it would be better create a society that it allowed to do it without being judged but we learn what the potential risks are, and make a personal decision.

without giving a side effect of cannabis prohibition or suppression ,please somebody tell me why its bad , its an object! why am i told how it is by an idiot from an idiots point of view ?
why am i shown side effects of cannabis prohibition in some lame paradox attempt to convince me to support it ,like im going to say ‘wow , look , its failing ,them greedy bureaucrats in office need my help’ , pss off , what’s that ,kids are getting stoned , then put an age limit in place , what’s that ,criminals are making billions ,well take the market off them then and regulate it , your not children, your adults , do you need somebody to protect you from yourself , no , the call for regulation is not to make it more available than it is now , it been called to reduce all harm been caused by money laundering stance of prohibition not the substance ,we need to rid the streets of illegal drug dealer, so children are not sold drugs , major crime isn’t funded and to reduce the introduction rate to harder drugs like heroin and methamphetamine , i would like to see all drugs , all drugs listed under the 1971 misuse of drugs act list, this includes tobacco and alcohol, so their markets are no longer dictated by their producers creating a free market paradox , this is why i support an evidence based drugs policy ,where drugs like tobacco and alcohol can be regulated to a scale of harm in a way to not spoil it for those responsible consumers , but to crack down on those causing trouble and bootleggers , also to help those with addiction problems overcome there illness, but im sure prohibition will never deliver this when the criminals have all the power and control and one more thing some of the greatest minds in the world consume or have consumed cannabis , you are read from the evidence of that right now (pc or mac), like it or not its here , now how we going to deal with it ! the worst way ,or the best way! keeping in mind that the organized criminals cannabis prohibition sets out to abolish also support cannabis prohibition for higher risk levels to increase profit s! with no effect to demand

When I wrote that many careers depend on opposition to sanity on cannabis earlier I accepted you for journalist and not lobbyist.
Sigh.

Cannabis and multiple sclerosis:
http://www.facebook.com/Thorsten.Kahlert#!/video/video.php?v=10150124838277426&comments

Sorry folks, that should read “Europe against drugs”

I see a roost……..I see chickens……….I see them coming home.

Another scribbler who considers himself a journalist. Considering David has had years to consider the subject, his article is bland and shallow. Tight deadline or laziness? He really should apply for a job with The ‘Irish’ Daily Mail or The Sun. There are others ways to consume cannabis, eating comes to mind. There are no respiratory implications from this method. Secondly, Ming is not just fighting for the right to consume, he is advocating an end to the criminal conviction of (the majority of) people who outside of cannabis consumption, will only find themselves in court for non-payment of a fine or a similar indiscretion. This also affects travel to other countries. For example if I was convicted of possession when I was 18, I would be barred from the U.S.A even when I reach the age of 24. To hell with government revenue exercises, if one were allowed to grow one plant, more than half of criminal gang revenue would be nullified. If you can’t be upskilled Mr Kenny, I suggest you study something else or emigrate, that’s if you weren’t caught, off your head, smoking the herb featured.

I do have a question about the calls for legalising cannabis though.
What role will the current suppliers of cannabis play in the legalised/legitimate/documented world?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/219569.php

There you go boyo

add this info as well please my research was done on google its not from the 60s and All the latest medical proof is now coming online here is a documentry about cannabis that deals with the lies you are trying to spread
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmarijuanamovie.org%2Ffull-documentary%2F%3Fsms_ss%3Dfacebook%26at_xt%3D4d813fe8d656827a%252C0&h=7bd29

David dispute a flawed article, it was the most discussed today. Happy days..

I think you have been drinking and hanging out too much with Mammy

scientist talking on cannabis study on harmful affects of cannabis compared to tabacco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJmQ16cGBHU

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/
just to help your research

Cardstacking

I think we’ve a lot more important issues that need debating. Ming might be colourful, but we need more than that to get us out of the mess we’re in. Waste of a good Dail seat.

Very good article, David. I’m still gob smacked by the fact that somebody like him gets elected……weird!

Great writing
Hash is against the law and Ming the stupid is breaking the law

A good article, whatever about grass, and i couldn’t personally care less either way, as long as people keep it away from me. The point is that Ming is playing with the facts and should treat the electorate with a little more respect. He feels the need to smoke it and legalise the stuff, good luck to him – but he should be honest about the fact and defend his position with a little integrity, otherwise he is no-better than the scum that he is replacing in our politics.

He makes a very good point about drugs gangs undercutting legal suppliers… That’s one of the main arguments for legalisation is it not? And just because alcohol and cigarettes are legal, does not mean we should legalise cannabis. Two wrongs dont make a right. Besides we will see the strict reduction in booze and cigs over our lifetime, first with price increases and then with supply.

Firstly, I would like to point out… David Kenny never suggested that cigarettes were harmless. He pointed out that both were bad for your health.
Also, as main organiser of the Roscommon Anti-Head Shop Campaign, I would like to say, I am not an old Granny jumping off the bandwagon. I have no problem with ADULTS who choose to smoke, drink or even take drugs if this is their desire. It is a free country. I do not go about telling people what they should or shouldn’t do.
I do however, have a problem with the likes of Ming Flanagan going on T.V. and radio telling the world he grows and smokes cannabis. This is ILLEGAL, and the sooner something is done about it, the better. It is a disgrace. Cigarettes and alcohol are both licensed products, look at the problems alcohol already cause in our society. Why would we add to this situation and make cannabis or any other drug legal??

I fully agree with the position put forward. Most dopeheads campaign for legalisation of drugs so they can buy & use it more easily. In addition their argumentation is wrong; most of them roll out the old argument of “look at the Netherlands”. Well the Netherlands have recently reversed their drug tolerant policies because of the damage to society it was inflicting.
I know because I grew up there. I have seen the damage being done by a liberal drugs policy.
It does not work. Drugs were and are still sold in a criminal environment.
I could go on listing more arguments but the idea is stupid and Flanagans arguments are disengenuous.

I would like to point out that David Kenny never suggested that cigarettes were harmless. He pointed out that both were bad for your health.
As the main organiser of the Roscommon Anti-Head Shop Campaign, I would like to clarify that I am NOT an old woman with nothing better to do. I do not have an issue with any ADULT who wishes to smoke or drink. It’s a free country and these products are licensed. I do have an issue with people representing our country giving interviews to the media, announcing they grow and smoke cannabis. My problem with this is…it’s ILLEGAL. So, why is nothing being done about it?? There’s enough problems in society caused from alcohol, why add to it by legalising any drug? It does not send out a very good message to the youth of Ireland.

Prohibition doesn’t work, so perhaps we should legalise theft, rape, murder etc because the fear of prison is certainly not a deterrent to people committing them. This whole agenda that the government shouldn’t tell people what to do is bogus. Some thing nobody should be allowed to do.

Ming on The Last Word today, he’s giving up for his familys sake.

http://soundcloud.com/cannabisireland/ming-on-lastword-23-03-11

Follow him here on Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan

When a normal law abiding person comes into contact with a stoner, then you are harming other people. You just don’t realise it

“However, I and I would imagine most people would prefer to buy from a reliable source where you are guaranteed what you are getting is what it says on the tin.”

I suppose that would explain why so many people illegally launder diesel across the border and cigarettes also. People will go for what is cheapest. Fact.