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Dublin: 8 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

Column: Amid rising popularity, Fianna Fáil may just be relevant again

Fianna Fáil’s poll bounce isn’t a definitive comeback – but we shouldn’t write them off, writes Gary Murphy.

Gary Murphy

A MAJOR PART of the astonishment over the result of the 2011 general election was due to the collapse of the Fianna Fáil vote. Although heralded by the opinion polls, it still came as a significant surprise. Fianna Fáil, the so-called natural party of Irish government, the party that had dominated the state since it first took office in 1932, was reduced to 17 per cent of the first preference vote and 20 seats out of 166 in the mother of all Irish electoral defeats.

Such a result was something that no sane observer of Irish politics could ever have predicted. Only a few short years earlier Bertie Ahern led the party to its third general election victory in a row in 2007. For many within the party itself the looming electoral disaster was something that could not be countenanced, with the view that surely things would get better.

There can be no doubt that the scale of the defeat shocked Fianna Fáil to the core. Notwithstanding the party’s dismal showing in the polls prior to the election there continued to be a belief held within Fianna Fáil that the quirks of the Irish electoral system would save it. Its new leader Micheál Martin predicting that the party would be represented in every constituency, that the numbers could not be that bad and that local factors would save a decent number of TDs.

Staggering loss

When the counting was done, however, the Fianna Fáil losses were staggering. A loss of 58 seats from 78 in 2007 to 20 in 2011. A drop in first preferences in percentage terms from 41.6 in 2007 to 17.4 per cent in 2011.

That Fianna Fáil could gain over 380,000 first preference votes on the back of presiding over the worst economic crisis in the history of the state, and that it could attract such support despite its negative reputation on issues of trust and competency says something about its resilience.

As we face into the second anniversary of its routing at the 2011 general election Fianna Fáil stands at 21 and 22 per cent in the opinion polls and given increasing dissatisfaction with the Government, it will clearly hope to garner more substantial support as the year progresses. Its decision not to run a candidate in the presidential election of October 2011 seems ever more vindicated and supporters of the party are becoming more vocal on the airwaves.

Thus the question arises: are the political zombies back from the dead?

A classically populist party since its foundation in 1926 Fianna Fáil was able to draw support from all sections of the population. Small and large farmers alike, businessmen, including developers and bankers alike, the skilled artisan middle class, the manual working class, labourers, and the unemployed – all saw Fianna Fáil as a party that could represent them and their ambitions. That it consistently took over 40 per cent of the vote at general election time was testament to this remarkable chameleon-like ability to attract support from all groups and social classes.

Losing their way

Micheál Martin has claimed that the party lost its way in recent years by forgetting its radical roots, and that it can recover both its zeal and purpose by returning to the original progressive policies of Eamon de Valera and Seán Lemass – although he does not really tell us what these are in the Ireland of 2013.  It also does not help that he continues to insist that Fianna Fáil lost its way under Bertie Ahern by failing to challenge the consensus.

This seems to miss the pretty important point that Fianna Fáil created the self-same consensus through its commitment to a heady but fatal concoction of a low taxation base, high public spending including a throw money at whatever the problem is approach, and an astonishingly lax regulatory framework for the banking system. We can’t blame Fianna Fáil alone for this. After all it was the Labour Party who in the 2007 general election campaign wanted to spend even more while taxing even less.

Fianna Fáil has a long and proud history and a lot of achievements to its credit. From de Valera’s 1937 Constitution to Lemass’s opening up of the economy, and entry into the EEC under Jack Lynch it has embraced an outward-looking Ireland that has stood the country in good stead. Its commitment to social partnership also provided the state with macroeconomic stability in the years from 1987 to 2007. It is unthinkable to look at the ending of the troubles in Northern Ireland without marvelling at the role that Bertie Ahern, for all his other troubles, played in bringing such a situation about.

Thrown out

Fianna Fáil faces a long and arduous task back to making itself a party of power once again. Comparisons between Fianna Fáil’s meltdown in 2011 and Fine Gael’s collapse in 2002 seem to me to be misplaced. Fianna Fáil was basically thrown out of office by an angry and vengeful electorate who felt deceived by the party’s 2007 promises of continued economic success. The problem for Fine Gael in 2002 was one of continuing to make themselves relevant in an era where it seemed Fianna Fáil would be in perpetual government given their successful embracement of coalition politics.

In comparison to Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil in 2011 fell much further from much higher – and most crucially of all, from in government. Its reputation for economic competence and good government is to all intents and purposes ruined and the idea of them getting back anytime soon to the days of polling over 40 per cent of the first preference vote seem rather ludicrous and fanciful in the extreme. Moreover it cannot easily distance itself from the mistakes of its time in government when its current leader sat at the cabinet table from 1997 to 2011.

One feature of the Irish party system that Fianna Fáil has going for it is that party loyalism is declining amongst voters. If the 2011 general election told us anything it was that the old ties that bound citizens to Fianna Fáil in particular, and Fine Gael to a lesser extent, are gone.

Party politics in Ireland is fragmenting and there is thus an opportunity for Fianna Fáil to present itself in a different guise to the electorate.

Polls

We should be careful though about opinion polls when the current government is less than two years in office. Prior to the bank guarantee scheme of September 2008 Fianna Fáil was in the 40 per cent range in opinion polls. Once that fateful decision was made and its consequences soon became clear Fianna Fáil went into freefall.

The politics of austerity currently spells extremely bad news for the government and particularly the Labour party. But there is no sign of any fissure in the government that would lead to a collapse of the coalition. In politics events still matter and who knows what a deal on bank debt for instance might do for the government’s popularity?

Fianna Fáil ended 2012 well by creeping over 20 per cent in the polls. The first poll of the new year gives them 21 per cent. But as this is but only four points more than it received in 2011 it’s not time to open the champagne just yet. Still, Fianna Fáil is relevant in Irish politics again and after the general election of 2011 that in itself is worth shouting about for the soldiers of destiny.

Gary Murphy is Associate Professor of Politics and Head of the School of Law and Government at Dublin City University. For more articles by Gary Murphy click here.

Read: Poll shows drop in support for Sinn Féin, rise for Fianna Fáil>

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Comments (131 Comments)

  • Whatever party uses “scrap the property tax” as their manifesto in the next election will do pretty well

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  • The only reason why Fianna Fáil is climbing again is because of Fine Gael and Labour’s incompetence at governing the state. That, and of course – the short memory of the Irish electorate. I said it before, and I’ll say it again – Fianna Fáil will form a Government within 2 elections from their defeat. Much to my dismay of course. I could see them conceivably receive 40+ seats in the next election and with it, I’ll be taking the first seat on a plane off this island.

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    • If FF get in, it is by the vote and then we will truly deserve to wallow our self-appointed future.

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    • And thats why they will come back. Im sure a lot of the people who left this country before were not ff supporters. Gives them the perfect opportunity to come back if people who don’t vote for them are leaving in large numbers.

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    • FF always relied on emigration to remove the young, who were always least likely to vote for them. Even know their voter base is overwhelmingly over 55.

      Remember their last Ard Fheis, the one with the Work Abroad Expo on at the same time. Several FF delegates sang “Cheerio Cheerio” to people who told them that FF should be embarrassed for what they did to the country.

      They couldn’t have cared less, for them it is about power at all costs and the boat and the plane take away those who want a different and better life, a life in a country that is not corrupt and a closed shop.

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    • @Richie Dolan, I was at that Ard Fheis. Any actual proof of that happening? You night as well tell us about the massive protests outside the RDS on that day as well.

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    • Good point–Fine Gael and Labour have managed to do the impossible: make Fianna Fail look good.

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    • @Thomas Daniel Fry

      aaahh, there you are , theclost ff Supporrer.
      Maybe you could explain why the goldfish with vote in increasing numbers for the party that should have been banned in Ireland after their last period in Government?

      Reply
    • Closet supporter? Im hardly hiding the fact now, am I? The concept of the goldfish voting for FF is very simple. The Party puts people on the ballot paper. People vote for them for whatever reason. I can’t see how 20% odd of the electorate get these favours that are spoken of in return for votes. I can only imagine that it is FF policy at the time and the amount of work that said TDs do for their constituency at that particular time.

      Regards banning FF, that is a very dangerous comment to make. No one wants to see such a fascist action take place in Ireland… Surely then the precedent to ban FG, [elements of] SF, LAB and other parties for the harm done to the country at various times will be there?

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  • What exactly have Fianna Fáil done since the last election to deserve this rise in the polls? They have offered no alternatives to what the government are doing. They haven’t reformed structurally since the last election and they haven’t apologised for their incompetent handling of the Irish economy.

    Ireland needs a new party with new attitude towards politics and economics

    Reply
  • If Adolf Hitlers Nazi party were standing in the next general election in Ireland, they’d get a decent portion of votes. That’s how bad things are. Surely there has never been a time when the public have had such a difficult time trying to decide which politicians are actually genuine. The very fact that FF support is growing again proves my point. Are people forgetting how PJ Flynn was found to be corrupt by the Tribunal?My understanding is that he kept money for himself, that was supposed to be a donation to FF. That being the case, why haven’t the FF membership asked The Garda Siochana to investigate? This alone only convinces me that they’re still as crooked as they ever were. The Irish people deserve everything they get! We were content to turn a blind eye to blatant corruption and nepotism for years, because it seemed harmless enough. It’s only now that we are seeing the consequences of our lack of action.

    Reply
  • If these thieving, incompetent a-holes get back into government I’m fecking emigrating!

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  • I could be wrong but I predict a record number of independent candidates running in the next election. If you’ve got no morals and don’t give a shit what people think of you it has to be one of the the best gigs going. That’s why they get carried shoulder high and go nuts when elected.

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  • Great article Gerry ! Lets just hope that the electorate doesn’t fall for the catch all politics that destroyed this country . Classically populist sums them up alright they courted developers , unions and Fr Sean Healy alike and with Michael Martin at the helm we still don’t know what they stand for even after two years , they stand ready to pounce in line with public opinion . If the rise again it a savage indictment on us and our culture not FF, their merely a political cockroach that do or say anything to survive

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    • Political cockroach, I like that.
      It is staggering that that party still exists. Let alone talk of returning to government.
      One of DeValera’s great achievements was the 1937 constitution which stripped the Irish people of powers they had gained under the free state constitution.
      “The founding father of our first Constitution of the Irish Free State, 1922 gave the powers of Initiative and Referendum to the Irish people in articles 47 and 48 of the Constitution. They were profound men who gave this great gift to the nation to guard against the very abuses of power we have seen exercised by our career politicians over the ensuing decades since the foundation of the state.
      However these rights were never exercised, as the first government to get into power removed these rights from the people of Ireland and gave those powers to themselves. Now only a challenge to the Constitution or the government themselves can initiate a referendum.”
      DDI website

      This would have allowed the electorate the opportunity to challenge lunatic policies such as handing taxpayers money over to bondholders and to displace corrupt politicians.

      Reply
    • Sean it was actually removed long before Dev. The first free state government removed it. So ya cannot blame Dev for that.

      Reply
    • Can you back that interesting comment up please ?

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  • FF are not the problem. As a political party they are and continue to be relevant.the problem with FF is that since the 1970s, it’s leadership thrived on deception,corruption, and one-up-man-ship. It was a culture which took hold, and then took over the party to the detriment of all the good-folk at the Grass roots.
    FF it’s current and next leadership MUST demonstrate beyond question that this culture has been eliminated, then they may come back to power.
    Incidentally, the one-upmanship is currently rife in the FG, and L parties. I guess it’s only a matter of time before they are sucked into the corruption culture. They are already involved in mass deception.

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    • The grassroots of FF never had any problem with corruption and whole scale criminality. Have you ever heard of the party roots rising up and demanding that Haughey and about a hundred others be publicly castigated by the party. That Micheal Martin come out and say that CJ was a criminal and a hood. Not a chance. FF supporters feel like that they are on the inside track, and they are and they love it.

      Unless you change about half of the membership and elected reps then you will never destroy they culture of theft and corruption that defines FF for the past 40 years.

      Reply
  • There’s not a hope I’d ever vote Fianna Fail after what they did to this country. I voted labour last time out and they’ve done nothing but sit on Fianna Gael’s lap and do as their told. They shouldn’t have went into coalition and stayed in opposition. Then next time around they would have probably cleaned up. Now they’re rapidly becoming the new Green party or Liberal Democrats

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  • Republican Party my hole.

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  • Not a lot of options next election – military terrorists of financial terrorists.
    We need a new constitution and a complete new government. Not the same old faces that steal from to poor to feed themselves.

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  • Have the people forgotton the people that sat on the front benches when FF. destroyed the country are suitting on the front benches of FF.today if they were dummies then they are dunnies today and can not be trusted. FG. and Labour came out before the last election and lied to the people and today brouse the corridores of power without a care in the world , mugging the children, carers and the OAP. .. people will have to have a long think before decideing who to vote for .

    Reply
  • I only have to look out my window to see why FF should never be back at national or local level.

    Open countryside which they – with the help of SF and Labour – would have destroyed, purely to benefit some speculators.

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  • Jason 13/01/13 #

    I voted for them in the past, never again

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  • Potential future ministers should have to sign a document of truthfulness before going into government and when going on television be connected to a lie detector ‘ also have money deducted from there wages to pay for their mistakes

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  • Dmc 13/01/13 #

    Dustin the Turkey will get my vote the next time

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  • Around in circles we go, Fianna Fail rise Labour and Fianna Gael drop… and vice versa it just keeps going, what a scam of a political system. How can Mr.Martin still get up and talk sh*** to the Irish people ? I mean they bypassed democracy with the Lisbon Treaty and they call themselves politicians ??

    Reply
  • This is sick!

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  • Phil 13/01/13 #

    We need a new party with a different ideology. All we have is Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Both are a total shambles. Like democrats and republicans in USA. Another monopoly of hoods with the same corrupt agendas.

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  • Was the country not established by military terrorists to use your imperial phraseology?

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  • They left a ball of shit behind and now once again on the up. Fine Gael/Labour delivered empty promises. I hope they never govern our country again. I will never vote for a political party again. I now work on the Queens soil and I am happy to be paying my taxes to a system that delivers Low car tax, free bins, free doctors, free medication. No need for health insurance on the NHS. All in return for a monthly council tax. A fair system.

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  • I will never vote Fianna Fáil/Gael or labour again.these parties should be put up for treason in this country,my next vote will be direct democracy.we have to look at fresh new faces and ideas to the future

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    • Direct democracy i cant see working the impression i get from it is what ever the voters want they get .. We how is that supposed to work not to sound condecending but i dont belive that people actually know whats good for the country only whats good for themselves .. If DD were in now theirs enough people out there that theyd get votes on burning bondholders as most if the voters wouldnt even have a notion od the repercussions of such a decision …

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    • @jaythompson But isnt that the beauty of direct democracy. We wwould hav to live wit our decisions. Not just having other peoples debt foisted upon us with no choice or no way to reverse that decision. I will vote direct democracy nxt time. The swiss semm happy and prosperous with it.also under dd a bank guarantee wudnt hav been poss witout our say

      Reply
    • But we are living with our decisions as it is.
      We put them in power we suffer the consequences.

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    • @sam the bank guarentee decision was done nothing we can do about that now .. The electorate is not qualified or educated enough to make the decisions

      Ill give you an example of why ot wont work the budget

      Every person who voted for DD will want what ever budget decision that effects them reversed regardless of whats good for te country and wouldnt be qualified or educated to make a decision on where budgetary measures should be taken from and realistically all youll see is

      TAKE ALL TDS WAGES MAKE THEM WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGE and other populist rubbish that couldnt be implamented

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  • I would like to think that Fianna Fail as a party will never see the light of day again but from my experience the public have a very short memory. Now that people’s pockets are going to be challenged again with property tax and water rates they will forget it was Fianna Fail that caused the downfall of Ireland with I might add the support of the Green Party and all the others. I’d put a bet on that Fianna Fall will rise again and sooner than we expect.

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  • Majority of population will never vote FF/FG/LAB ever again….. We’ll find an alternative.. We have to..

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  • Fianna Fáil are being aided and abetted by RTE in their ‘new found popularity’. At every whisp of a story they manage to get a shout out thanks to RTE. hmm I wonder why? Would a radical alternative to establishment politics of FF FG and LAB help the salaries of all those at Pravda rte? I think not so its not in their interests to promote an alternative. Same goes for overpaid ‘professionals’.
    I hope the country sees through FFs bullshit and votes in an alternative. May The Lord have mercy on our souls.

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  • Luke 13/01/13 #

    FG/FF will probably be in government together next time. Numbers wise I can’t see an alternative unless Labour get a massive recovery.

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    • Won’t happen. FF would end up the next Green Party if they went in with FG. Also, there are alternatives. You can’t see an alternative?!? That must be a joke! I see alternatives like Independents, SF, etc…

      Take my advice: stop being rigid and be open to change.

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    • Anyone with half a brain dont see SF as an alternative if they were realistic in wgat they set out instead of telling people what they want to hear then they would gain credability im just thankfull the majority of the electorate can see right through their populust nonsence

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    • Jay,

      Populist?! Reminds me of Fianna Fail during the past 30 years buying votes only to sell out their voters. I hope the voters put their wisdom beyond reach of you neo-cons. There is a fairer, better way with Independents, SF, etc.

      Reply
    • Instead of saying te grass is greener on the other side explain to me how their policys will work in the real world not never never land

      Burn bondholders ( economic suicide)
      Please Dont be silly enough to mention iceland as an example as ur arguement will loose all credibility with me.

      Job stimulous pump a billion into job creation (worldwide recession) all the money in the world wont create sustainable jobs ( as has been proven wit europe throwing money at the problem to no avail…

      Only tax homes over 1m euro ( census has shown 3000 homes over that price in te whole country as it stands ) some revenue thatll take in

      Dont tax any home ( where is te revenue gonna come from ) ps its ok to tax the home up north but not down south for some reason

      So in a nut shell tax nobody and spend imaginarry money which we cant get cause we dont pay loans back

      WELCOME TO THE LAND OF MAKE BELIVE WITH YOUR HOST GERRY ADAMS

      Reply
    • Jay,

      You’re not as clever as you want other readers to believe. You think I’m being “imaginary”? I gave you a factual analogy and you pay back with an off-topic rant like an old sheep. Want to throw it away with FF, that be my guest.

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    • I wouldnt vote for FF if i was heald at gunpoint Lets get that straight

      My point SF are in no way a viable alternative to any sort of productive goernment ive no preferance to who i vote for. I make my decision based on realistic mandates and the SF have one of the most unrealistic mandates you could possibly come by

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  • FF rise is more a comment on the inability of Sinn Fein to make any real breakthrough despite the country being in the worst crisis its faced in years. Thankfully, it also says a lot about the Irish electorate that they can see through their populist rhetoric…

    Reply
  • Merkel might send over her cronies and we can be ruled by them. FF seriously? Bloody destroyed the Country

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  • FF = FG = Lab , there is no difference , they all prioritise their EU dream of a federal superstate over the needs of the people who elected them , they are all europhiliacs .

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  • Oh dear God! Noooooooooo!!!!!!

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  • People have short memories

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  • Through continually voting FF into power the irish people got what was coming to them…they now complain because there is a government actually fixing the mess and making the hard but necessary decisions that have prevented a Greek type situation. If FF are returned to power then a chance to get the country back in shape will be squandered and the people will have to accept the consequences…there are no easy choices out there…only bad and worse ones….

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  • Good article Gary. A general election is probably 4 years away so it’s hard to predict where FF will be then or what state Ireland inc will be in. The local election in 2014 are vital for FF. Must get a slew of new councillors to be ready for GE. Another big question is if FG/FF is the only viable govt what will FF do. Coalesce with FG and it will bring about a right/left divide for the first time in Ireland.

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  • If Fianna Fáil get back into power, then I’m emigrating, not out of economic necessity, but out of principle. And I’ll be quoting Homer Simpson on the way out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lModMATbSMk

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  • God help us all….or even Manitu

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  • Fianna Fáil have always been very relevant. They offer a cautionary tale- a clear example of the damage the corrupt & incompetent can wreak. This “proud history” mentioned by the author eludes me. A party set up by stolen funds by the architect of the Civil War, one which proceeded to stifle modernisation for decades and which degenerated into a pit of corruption through the Haughey and Ahern years. Then of course there is the abject incompetence of the Cowen administration during which “the Republican Party” nearly brought down this Republic. So what is this proud history Micheal Martin and others speak of? It beggars belief that 21% of people could even countenance voting for them at the next election. These people should be made wear bells on the streets so that they can be clearly identified and mocked.

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  • People have short term memories. Who are they polling? I don’t know too many people that would be willing to give FF another shot.
    If they get back into government, my faith in humanity will be ruined. Granted FG and Labour aren’t much of an alternative. SF is the only way to go, they haven’t had a shot to be in government, lets give them a try. Surely they can’t be any worse than any previous gov’t?

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    • I’d be willing to give them another shot…of rabies.

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    • FF that is.

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    • Sinn Fein have had plenty of shots of another kind.

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    • Oh yeah Ben? Well look at all of those pure, innocent politicians that fly the FF & FG banner *sarcasm*

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    • Dodge, thats as maybe, but I don’t recall them shooting or bombing anyone, or condoneing such actions………oh! wait a minute, the ex Workers Party cabal now running Labour…..perhaps you have a point.

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    • So have The Blueshirts , FF & Labour too you seem to forget – all born out of a revolution & a dreadful Civil War , which pitted brother against brother.

      Some seem to always try to rewrite the real somewhat awful happenings of the early Twentieth Century , as if it was Chocolate Bullets that were being fired about.

      It was no different then , then in latter times in the Wee Six – just a different
      time in history.
      The atrocities alone in my County of Kerry , were horrific beyond belief , on both sides , in the Civil War!

      Remember , thankfully , we are beyond those times now on our little Island!
      But let’s not forget too , so as to never let those times happen again.

      As for FF & it’s future , there will always be a traditional 20% number one vote there.
      With the liathrodi that Labour / FG are making of it all , FF are bound to gain swats, but SF will probably double again in size & will then be the biggest vote getters in the whole of the 32 Counties , after the next Election , as their commitment to work is just amazing!

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    • On both sides? Ballyseedy, countess Bridge, Bahaghs, all those were tied to mines and blown up, Clashmealican caves, not to mention all those left by the waysides not just in Kerry. 77 executed, 113 ‘unauthorised’ murders, all these we’re carried out by the Free State. For Kerry see Dorothy Macardles ‘Tragedies of Kerry’.

      Reply
    • Ironic to hear Eddie go on about awful happenings on the island, before commending Sinn Fein’s work ethic. As much as I hate Fianna Fail, I’d rather see Bertie back than any Sinn Fein terrorists in power.

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    • I don’t give a damn about Sinn Fein’s past. I do give a damn about their scary, unrealistic, populist economic policies which would crucify the middle class even more than what has happened.

      They want to raise €800 million a year in some form of wealth tax but not a property tax because they are conveniently against a property tax at the moment (although I bet that would change if they got into government). So where is the wealth that they are going to tax? It means going after savings in banks, pensions etc. To raise that sort of money they would have to introduce a tax that would hit practically everybody in the country who has managed to save anything.

      Reply
  • howya 13/01/13 #

    The miserable implementation of social partnership and bench marking has resulted in the massive budget deficits – that is not something to be proud of.

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  • This is so funny. It’s like a bunch of 12th century serfs worrying about the health of his lordship. “What will happen if he dies? Who will take care of us?”
    He isn’t taking care of you. He’s picking your pockets and fecking your wives and daughters. Drive a stake through his heart if you’re concerned about the future. Now get busy!!

    Reply
  • Mr Dolan And then FG followed suit kept up the quangos ‘ kept the expenses ‘ high salaries and now the troika had to tell them to look again at the budget .This is a fact read the papers ?

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    • Have a wee read of the papers yourself and you’ll see the country has turned a corner, is better off now than it was when FG took over and looks like it will considerably better off by the next election. Quick hint- you won’t find that information on page 3 of the Sun. You’ll have to dig a bit deeper

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    • vincent ireland is not a better place
      disparity of wealth getting wider
      unemployment is worrying
      mortgage timebomb
      selling our assets to pay for gamblers
      emigration – we are losing the most educated intelligent this country has seen
      the list goes on and on

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    • @frank just a a quick question what party could we have voted in that would solve these problems

      Unemployment problem (worldwide recession)

      Mortage timebomb (give me an answer to this problem that isnt ridiculious or insustainable) actually forward ur answer to the banks they will pay handsomly for that information

      Emergration ( we have almost as many people coming in as going out)

      Reply
    • Jay
      fine gael/labour were the correct party to vote in. there pre election manifesto was the correct and best way forward, but they completely abondoned it.
      unemployment – dont pay the bondholders and put the money into a stimulus package with capital projects and science/innovation and our old saviour farming at the forefront
      there will have to be a certain writedown of mortgage debt and its time the government addressed it, the only problem is that the banks were given money for this very crisis but they have blown it. but both mortgage lender and boworrer need to take some pain.
      emigration is bad and probably the worst part, our kids are the highest educated kids ever and we are letting them leave, i read a paper the yanks comissioned on soverign debt and the cite emigration is detramental for a country which is going through an austerity programme, I would deal with this again by not paying the bondholders and using the money to keep our highly educated kids home.

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    • Burning the bondholders would make it near inpossible to get money from te markets an any sort of acceptable intrest rate that alone would conpletly ruin the country and please dont insult my our ur own intelligence by using the example of iceland in ur reply to this

      Investthe money into a stimulous package .. What exactly do you expect to be stimulated in a worlwide recession when as a country we havent got enough of an export market to self sustain the country

      Who decides what mortage gets written off ans whos dosent and what would be the motivation to pay my mortage if theyll write it off if i dont pay If you or anyone else decided to get a mortage for 1200-1800 over 35 years ya deserve a small write down and by that i mean to be signed into a mental asylum

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    • jay pat rabbite has suggested we burn the bondholders and i don’t insult anyones intelligence.
      we are being asset stripped plain and simple
      if we can get our domestic economy working we can in turn pay our mortgages, austerity is not the answer, as you squeeze tax out of people the tax pool becomes smaller, the law of diminishing returns kicks in
      if we dont do something about mortgage debt we will soon have 100,000 people homeless, and whos going to pay for their rented accomodation
      germany will need an interest rate rise soon

      Reply
    • Pat rabbite has said alot of things over the past 3 years and not a bit of it is true or even close to true

      People who cant pay their mortages due to can go to te banks and re negotiate payment i know personally 11 people who have done this but they will never clear their mortage but thats the price you pay for paying 350k for a 2 bed house in finglas in 2007 The people who will be looking for write offs arent those people its the people who are payin 1200-1800 mortages and can pay but by paying wont have the lifestyle they had in The boom years

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    • @ JAY

      People who got themselves into their own debt shouldn’t expect any favorable treatment. If they were wealthy enough to “go mad” they are wealthy enough to pay back that debt. Don’t expect anyone to come to your savior.

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  • im looking a tax rebate for my vote , well they can get away with taxing everything

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  • Fianna Fail up you boyo ya !!! hahaha…….Fianna Fail !! Fianna Fail !! Fianna Fail !!

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  • 17 to 22% with the usual 3% margain of error makes this a poor article.

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  • tuba hg 13/01/13 #

    Great article Prof. Murphy

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  • Whats the alternative?? DUP anyone?

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  • Never forgive, never forget… never again.

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  • Am always amazed that Lemass is touted as “he who opened the economy” without referencing de Valera’s idiotic economic war and his role in bankrupting the country. Before Dev’s economic war on Britain (the country that bought 90% of our exports) Irish whiskey was the whiskey – served at embassies, hotels etc. Scotch only became popular after people could not access Irish whiskey. The trade has never since regained the position it once held.

    But then again I do not like politicians that usurp the democratic will of the people and beget a bloody civil war.

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  • Stuck for choice really .. Nothing new on the horizon .. Same old . Same old

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  • Damocles 13/01/13 #

    Fianna Fail’s changed and we should move on and just forgive and forget?

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  • Green Party for me – the only party which will bring in a Noise Bill. So when your neighbours are wrecking your head at 1 in the morning something can actually be done about it!

    Reply

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