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Dublin: 3 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

Column: Unemployed people already feel they have no worth without being called ‘spongers’

The contemporary world values people in terms of what they do for a living, so what is that saying to the unemployed, asks Tom Boland.

Tom Boland

‘FIND A JOB you love, and you’ll never work a day in your life’ goes the cliché. Sayings become clichés because they express something that we all accept without thinking. What do we accept in this glib phrase? Basically, that humans find their worth and happiness in work – something ordinary people accept, but also a foundational assumption of much psychology, economics and sociology.

Now, apply the saying to job-seekers. By definition, these individuals have not found a job they love, and therefore, they work every day in their lives. Seriously. Every day is a drag: empty hours, pointless leisure, killing time. The effort of job-seeking is constant, and increasingly enforced by the government’s Pathways to Work policy, which monitors, cajoles, re-trains and can cut social welfare payments to below the minimum standard for a decent life. Until 2013, €186 euro was considered the minimum cost of sustaining life – a baseline for survival; but recently this ‘luxury’ has been discarded.

Before we explore the actual experience of unemployment in any greater detail, let’s definitively clear one thing up; most people receiving the dole are not ‘spongers’. This can be statistically proven – only around 30,000 people were long-term unemployed in 2006. And many of these may have had good reason, for instance, parents who could not afford childcare. 30,000 is less than a tenth of those currently unemployed; anyone blaming the unemployed for unemployment is 90 per cent wrong. However, the issues go far beyond statistics and economics. The experience of unemployment has serious consequences that cannot be measured on an abacus.

Work equals worth

In previous eras, there were other ways of measuring individual worth, like good character, social connections or religious piety. The contemporary world values people in terms of work. We are raised in a culture which respects work and eventually espouse these values ourselves, whether we realise it or not; and the value we place on work is visible in the vitriol vented against ‘spongers’, in pubs, homes and cafés, at the end of this article no doubt, and even by those who are currently unemployed.

Work benefits us in five ways: Firstly, it gives a person status as a competent, responsible and active contributor to the economy. Secondly, it provides financial rewards, comforts and pleasures which are not distributed to all equally but dependent on the value of one’s work. Thirdly, work gives a structure and meaning to everyday life, marking work as valued toil and leisure as deserved relaxation. Fourthly, work provides social networks of people united in a collective task who respect each other’s position and contribution. Fifthly, work provides a sense of collective purpose – even the most menial job is part of the doughty little Irish economy which, supposedly, will revive and lift us from the current mire.

Unemployment deprives individuals of these five elements, which causes psychological suffering: unemployed people have twice the average rate of depression and are two to three times more likely to die by suicide, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Even if employment resumes after long term unemployment mental health is still impaired for years or even decades. These consequences cost the state in terms of missed ‘man-hours’ or the state expenditure in palliating these problems. More importantly, the suffering of the unemployed, and collective and political lack of sympathy, is a stain on the nation.

How it feels

What does unemployment feel like? Firstly, one lacks status – at best you can say that you ‘used to be’ something or other, or have trained to be something, but essentially, you are not this thing. Those with other roles in their lives beyond a career – like being a parent or an artist – tend to feel better.

Secondly, the financial rewards are meagre, leading to food poverty and a low quality of life. Moreover, the few comforts which €188 a week will afford are experienced as guilty pleasures – undeserved and begrudged.

Thirdly, one’s days are a mixture of the interminable work of job-seeking and killing time, so that each day is a burden of hours which must be passed in activities which have no worth. Doing nothing is religious for Buddhist monks, but for the hundreds of thousands in Ireland who used to work, it is a meaningless limbo.

Fourthly, unemployment leads to social isolation – even though there are more opportunities to socialise, being made redundant often leads to a retreat from society, the withering of workplace networks and a decline in hobby and voluntary activities.

Fifthly, an unemployed person is defined in the media and the popular imagination as a drain on the resources of the state, and often subjected to surveillance and suspicion by the Department of Social protection.

Rethinking work and unemployment

Unemployment is not just an economic problem to which jobs are the solution. Rather, how society thinks about work and leisure has to change. Plainly, the environment cannot support seven billion people behaving like Celtic Tiger cubs. Eventually, sustainability must be more important than productivity. Globally it makes sense to produce less and consume less, which ultimately means to work less.

Much environmental and social depredation occurs simply to support the frenetic world of work. For instance, the production of fast-food and ready-meals pollutes more and creates more obesity, but would be unnecessary in a world where people worked less. Employment laws which decreased the length of the working week and enforced quadruple remuneration for over-time would lead to more people working for shorter time. And – for those who only count the bottom line – this would also lead to a reduction in costly state services, associated with problems from obesity to public order.

Such measures would reduce the actual numbers of unemployment but more importantly shift the values, so that work would not equal worth. Instead, it becomes possible to respect people for their character, interests or beliefs – for who they are, not what they do.

Tom Boland lectures in Sociology at Waterford Institute of Technology and is co-ordinator of the Waterford Unemployment Experiences Research Collaborative. To read more articles by Tom for TheJournal.ie click here.

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Comments (121 Comments)

  • I think most people would agree that the only ones that deserve to be called sponges are people that never worked through the boom and just don’t make any effort to be more than a burden. Unemployment can happen to anyone.

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    • The only real solution is another world war.

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    • We have no-one to clear the drains and roads are being washed away, so why can’t these extra long term unemployed. Be given the task, to do it for two to three days a week. We have no money to pay private contractors, so we are not putting anyone out of a job!

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    • Will you just use black people or do you not mind what colour the slaves are? Clean your own drains. The days of the lower classes being used to do the dirty work of the upper classes has past. You have heard of the French Revolution.

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    • @Stephen: there’re a lot of reasons why governments don’t and shouldn’t use the unemployed in this way. First off, it actually costs a fortune as they need new kit & materials, supervisors & new layers of management, insurance costs will be high and training will have to be given.
      Then there’s the way in which any department will become dependant on free labour and will cease to function if it ever disappears. Nor will new jobs in that area be created when we get out of the downturn, however long that takes; the free labour will be in place and what department would want to blow its budget on wages when it doesn’t have to.
      It’d work out as a long-term investment in keeping the unemployed unemployed.

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    • Slave Labour, if you are getting 188 euro as a single person and go out to do two days work for it? Do you think that’s slave Labour, or would you feel like you’ve earned it and can do a part-time job on top of it? I’d have no problem, doing two days for that money and feeling like i earned what the government gave me!

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    • But Stephen, if I had worked for 20 years, paid PRSI and Tax for that entire time I would feel like I was entitled to that money, I had already earned that support.

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    • Try 35 years paying tax and PRSI, (very high in the 80′s) now through my also (laid-off) unemployed husband, my payment is €124 per week as qualified adult. And some arrogant little s–t who is probably only in the workforce for a few years thinks I should feel so guilty because I was laid off as a result of the Bank robbery of our country. Grow up, idiots, you know who you are!

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  • Of course many former self employed people whose businesses have failed don’t even qualify for unemployment benefit. They are not recorded as unemployed.

    It is one of the less endearing qualities of the Irish that we are fortunate to have jobs and an income to look down on and invent a moral inferiority for those of us who worked hard but collapsed under the strain of the recession or were pushed out of employment.

    If you are over 55 getting a job is well nigh impossible.

    One thing is sure. We should not be defined in our worth by the jobs we do or no longer do. Some are fortunate. Some are unfortunate.

    Most unemployed people are not voluntarily unemployed. Look at the long dole queues and the humiliation of seeking your entitlements. Indignity is a terrible human cost

    There is perhaps a greater sense of dignity in committing crime, however wrong it is. Passivity is the true curse.

    The article is enlightened and even compassionate. Human dignity means a lot.

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  • I think when the word spongers is mentioned in regards to a social welfare post, the majority of people are talking about the ones who have been on the dole for the past 10 – 15 years, who have never held a job and never intend to. I certainly don’t see the folks who have been made redundant in the past few years as spongers. They’re the ones who would jump at a job if offered.

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    • They’re also the ones who deserve it the most.

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    • If you’ve been on social welfare more than a year continuously you are a sponger , thats long enough to retrain or Atleast do an apprenticeship , theres no other way to describe it, a drain on the state and you should feel ashamed of yourself

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    • Maybe you could do some personality retraining. You strike me as somebody who has never struggled for anything, a regular mammy’s boy. Cop on, most people hate being unemployed and they most certainly hate listening to condescending idiots like you.

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    • Considering the services like fas we provide, asking the long term unemployed to up-skill in an attempt to find a job is not that much, considering myself and all the other hard working people in this country are paying for it . A truly proactive unemployed person will apply for atleast 250 jobs a year , thats less than one a day, and should be a requirement to receive social welfare. This mentality of “im a writer theres no jobs in media” or “theres no jobs i dont have to train for” has to go out the window too.

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    • Silly comment, what about single parents, carers or unqualified people ?, wanting, needing a job isnt enough you even for training and depending on what type of training it may be actually useless in a real work environment. People want experience even on job bridge.

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    • You really have no concept of the world around you. You really think a man with three kids and a wife, recently made redundant, is going to take up a training position that pays peanuts and let his family suffer, just so he can appease the sensitive tendencies that you have.

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    • De-conscience ing is a very serious problem in modern society. While people with a conscience are tormented by idleness there is a growing social sub culture which has no conscience.

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    • Stephen ,
      I take it you never went to fas other wise you would know its useless.
      The services in this country to up skill or retrain are a total joke.

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    • tom 18/02/13 #

      Upskill retrain get a job >>> Hello ! Recession = unemployment. How smug we all are when its easy to point the finger at someone else. We have degree gratitudes having to emigrate because of lack of jobs. Or is the suggestion that everyone unemployed retrain and emigrate.

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    • 1 year is not long enough to retrain stephan.

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    • You are an idiot….. An absolute idiot.
      Craving some attention are you??
      Idiot..

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    • Dear mr S. Church. A while back, my husband was on jobseeker’s and he did god to fas. He was called to do a course but when there, he was told that actually he had to give a test to see who goes ahead for the course and they were told that anyway, priority will have whomever is the longest long term unemployed. He was only a few months off, so he did not get a place. In the next 18 months he was never offered any other course. He went and asked a few times if fas has sent any letters, since mail can get lost along the way. And fas will offer training for a handful of people per course. How about the rest. Not having to go in for signing day after a little more over 2 years is visible distressing my husband. Tell me, how could you prove constantly that your job is looking for a job with everything being applied on line and human interaction is maintained only at the level of going in on the signing day. Show me one fas that offered you training for being only two weeks unemployed? Just saying, a little compassion goes a long way. Being on the other side for a while changed my views on jobseekers. 99% of them are the genuine article.

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    • Absolutely the vast majority of jobless want to work, & for al the reasons Tom Boland mentions.

      Tom also suggests in the article – its main point, in fact – that given the increasingly ecologically unsustainable track of human society & economy, we should reconsider the nature of work. Essentially do less work – unless & until we can radically change the way we use non sustainable resources.

      Tom is right about this. We can continue to let the devil take the hindmost & launch headlong into serious resource limits with a bang. Or we can make some effort to achieve a softer landing in what is going to be a global crisis (within the next decade or two) that will make the present mess look like a jamboree. (If you don’t believe me, read what Michael Kumhof, IMF chief research economist, has to say. Hardly a ‘radical’ voice in any other respect.)

      If we do want to do what Tom Boland suggests, then the very first thing to do is ensure that no-one gets left behind. In economics terms, we must put a ‘floor’ under the labour market. MMT economics Job Guarantee (strictly voluntary for participants, note) does exactly what is needed. Instead of an ‘unemployed’ buffer stock of workers for the private sector, we have an +employed+ buffer stock, ensuring a decent, minimum wage, income for all, & getting useful jobs done in the community as & when labour is available. Useful jobs which could easily comprise recycling work presently considered ‘uneconomic’ (ie ignoring the environmental costs).

      The fiat monetary systems needed to do this already exist. Modern money does not exist in some bucket somewhere in limited quantity – it has all been created from thin air on computer keyboards. For example, in the Eurozone, the ECB could finance a Job Guarantee (as in MMT, with stated conditions) for every unemployed person in the zone who wants to work, at no ‘cost’ or ‘borrowing’ to anyone.

      The real choice – a political one – that is being made with public policy is one not about ‘money’ but rather distribution of the real goods and services being produced.

      The ever increasing concentration of wealth – accumulated claims on resources, denominated in money – of the top few percent is purely a political choice. One that produces mass unemployment – a shortage of jobs & the output waste that entails – as an inherent by-product.

      We can do economics differently, if we choose, for a healthier human society & environment both.

      Reply
    • Get over yourself you idiot be glad you have job and can pay tax to help others Some day you might need it

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  • There is a TV ad on Ulster TV urging people to make sure that they are claiming all of their entitlements. The mentality in Ireland is to firstly make a legitimate claimant feel like a piece of s##t then obstruct the process with every possible obsticle. The staff in a lot (not all) of these offices need a paradigm shift in attitude or a shift out on their ear…There are genuine cases who have paid into the system and just because they were self employed have zero entitlements.

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    • Your dead right on that. A lot of people jump through hoops to get what they are entitled to. If self starters were given the safety net when things go wrong a lot more people would start up working for themselves. I work for myself and last year wasn’t able to work for 16 weeks. I knew not to waste my time looking for any help as I wouldn’t get it even though I pay tax and insurance like everybody else. As I said if self starters were giving the same rights as employed people you would see a lot of people trying to do things themselves and would help reduce the unemployment figures. The biggest fear for anyone starting out on their own is leaving their spouse or kids with nothing if things go wrong.

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    • Ulster TV? Their rates are £65.45 (equivalent to 75 euro) for those aged over 25. It’s €186 euro per week here. No wonder it becomes a lifestyle choice here.

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    • Joe – and what free services do they get that we do not? What is the cost of living relative to welfare rates? How far will that money stretch in terms of bills / rents / groceries etc?
      Just comparing figures is not comparing like with like.

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  • At long last a balanced article regarding the unemployed. Only 4% were unemployed until some greedy people broke the banks. For Tara above, find out if your local politician is hanging onto a teachers position stopping someone like your partner from getting a job. Howlin, Kenny and Martin and I’m sure more in other parties are doing the same.This is for the pension scam, they don’t care that their stopping someone else from getting a permanent position.

    Reply
    • Thanks, Thomas! Will do.

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    • Sure didn’t Joan Burton herself hang on to her lecturing job in UCD for 15 years for that exact reason. To continue paying her pension. A joke. 15 years preventing someone from taking up that full time position whilst she creamed it in in the Dail. They’re all at it.

      Reply
    • Sure didn’t Joan Burton herself hang on to her lecturing job in UCD for 15 years for that exact reason. To continue paying her pension. A joke. 15 years preventing someone from taking up that full time position whilst she worked in the Dail. They’re all at it.

      Reply
    • Enda Kenny resigned his teaching job many years ago and it has been filled by a full time permanent teacher. He paid into a teacher’s pension for decades but has refused to draw any of it.

      Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin still holds onto his teaching job, and is the leader of the most popular party in the country.

      Reply
    • Actually just remember, in fairness to Meehaul Martin, he did not take any Ministerial payoff like most of his cohorts when FF lost power, and he does not take a Ministerial pension.

      Reply
  • I totally agree with the author. People need to respect each other for what they are rather than what they do.

    Reply
  • There is a huge difference between someone who is actively seeking employment and someone who has never looked for employment. My partner is a teacher and spends 12 months of the year applying for jobs that are already gone before he even sends in his CV. He hates been on social welfare as he wants to work. On the other hand we have a neighbour who has never worked, gets his rent allowance, his sky and a better social life than we will ever have. I don’t understand how this is and never will. Is he happy? Well he certainly appears to be as he’s always cheerful. He’s a very nice man and keeps to himself but he just has no interest in seeking employment as I have a chats with him on this. The system is wrong, not the people.

    Reply
    • The system is a reflection of what the people want and demand.

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    • If your partner keeps getting knocked back in applications for teaching jobs, maybe he should try something different if he truly wants to work.

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    • Same as that Tara, I’m looking for work as a teacher also and there’s not a lot out there for certain subjects. It’s the most disheartening thing to continually be knocked back from starting a career. And on top of that, public perception of teaching (and other jobs) has eroded.

      Not the most inspiring of positions to be in.

      Reply
    • Dear lord, what a simplistic stupid answer is that? There are currently more unemployed then jobs. It’s called a recession. This isn’t caused by those without jobs. There is no simple solution.

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    • Not getting KNOCKED back as you put it! If you know anything about teaching in this country you would know how corrupt it is! Its not what you lnow or how much experience you have, its who you know! He has got work here and there but ideally would love to be in full time position. Is that too much to ask after spending thousands on HIS education and yes he has applied for jobs outside teaching. He’s actually now looking at spending a year in Dubai. He’s 41 and I’m 40. Not an easy decision to make but we have a mortgage and bills to pay!!! That clear enough for you or would me like to write you a book on our lives?

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    • Tomy, well if they stopped rehiring retired teachers you all might have some chance!

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    • I know exactly what you mean Tara (and by “knocked back” I wasn’t suggesting anything other than what you’re saying).

      I’ve heard a lot about retired teachers getting rehired. It’s something I’d like to see the teachers unions actually make an effort to find out about.

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    • It’s only the tip of the iceberg Tomy! It’s a flipping joke what goes on on boards of management! Good luck for future, hope you and my partner get sorted soon. Last thing I want is him having to move to another country.

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    • A reflection of a few people not all ; )

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    • Your otherwise nice neighbour has been De-conscienced.

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  • Every applicant is entirely different and we need to stop assuming that People just aren’t prepared to go to work. Albeit there are so called chances or spongers – many people who are long term unemployed simply have no alternative source of income bar benefits. Don’t paint everyone with the same bush and I have seen this sense of entitlement to judge from peers who are employed, it is a disgusting attitude

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    • Many on long term unemployment benefits are only looking for certain jobs that they categorise themselves as being worthy of. In reality, they should work ANY job available.

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    • So you’re saying the nurses should apply for and take the 20k jobs?

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    • Im saying that someone who has qualified as an Egyptologist or someone involved in the construction industry for example, where there is a clear a lack of current demand for their skills, should actually consider a job in retail, a petrol station, etc rather than sitting on social welfare for 5 years complaining there is no work.

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    • I don’t think it matters what your profession is. If you need a job and have the chance of getting one, take it. If you need it badly enough it doesn’t matter what it is. You can always keep looking for your ideal job while you are working.

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    • You can argue, how a person is supposed to get anywhere if they spend their whole lives switching professions and constantly on a start up wage. ‘Jack of all trades’ equals ‘Master of none’. I dont think employers want to look at muddled CV’s. When I was out of work nearly a decade ago I took a job unrelated to the one Id finished and stuck at it while still looking for other more suitable work. Now that job has gone and the time spent doing it is a millstone on my career. There are a lot of cowboy employers that most serious workers are better off avoiding.

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    • dave 18/02/13 #

      Im an electrician and have been working as a retail merchandiser for 3 years now, would love to get back on tool but wasnt gonna wait around for the pefect job, i have run in to lads i used to work wit, out of work but felt what i was doin was beneath them, and he aint the only one id say… I’d call them spongers

      Reply
    • Yes, that’s the rate, don’t like it then don’t take it. Teacher and Nurses Unions have been whinging for years but there still seems to be a conveyor belt of teachers and nurses queuing up for the same jobs. Why train in it in the first place if the only thing you do when you get there is to give out about pay??

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    • Not necessarily the easiest thing to do, my father has worked in the construction industry since the age of 12, now at 56 years of age he struggles to read and write. It is not easy for somebody like this to get a job in retail etc. he does take any job available no matter how small, much of the time as favours instead of cash, but thank god his 6 children are reared so we are not a burden anymore

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  • Harry C 18/02/13 #

    On a lighthearted note, judging by Joe o shea’s facial expression he has been worked to the bone,literally!!!

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  • I agree everyone knows at least 1 sponger. I also know at least 30 others who are genuinely looking for work. My husband was made redundant back in 08. Since then he has gotten 3 jobs but nothing permanent so far. People have this perception that living off the state (such a horrible way of putting it) is a “cushy” option. Certainly those with no mortgage appear to get a lot more help while the rest if us who have are left to fend for ourselves. Because I was working part time, we were not entitled to mortgage interest supplement and now it has got to the point that we may lose our home. Anyone who thinks social welfare is better than going out to work every day just need to try a week in our shoes to realise what complete and utter nonsense that is. Leaving aside the financial difficulties, your self esteem is totally eroded, can’t have any social life and you can’t even afford basics like shoes for your kids. If you honestly believe we choose this kind if life, then you need your head testing.

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    • I don’t know why anyone would give you a thumbs down but I hope things improve for you! There is no shame in demanding what you are entitled to. After all, you will have paid enough PRSI and this is an insurance fund set up by the state to ensure a reasonable living standard until you get back on you feet. You are not alone and there are many organisations made up of people in the same position fighting for change, it just needs numbers. I wish you well.

      Reply
    • Thanks John, no idea why I’d get thumbs down either but I think our situation, actually I know our situation is experienced by many others out there. It’s hard enough without feeling others are calling us spongers. For the record my Hubbie applied for over 300 jobs last year. He got 2 but 95% didn’t even acknowledge his application. I think it should be mandatory for employers who advertise a job to at least reply to those who did get in touch. And for those that say “sure hundreds would go for one job”, it only takes 20 seconds to send a pre written reply by email. That’s almost the hardest part, when you hear nothing back.

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    • Good point, it’s such a small thing but would mean so much.

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    • Totally agree Carley, it’s an employers market out there…it couldn’t be easier to reply to applications these days, it’s a click of the mouse! It’s also common courtesy!

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  • Perhaps the so called system is wrong. Time to step outside the box. Amazing how conditioned and brainwashed people can get to believe work is the only worth on earth. Oh the puppet masters sure know how to manipulate and the media play along. How ye love misery

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  • ” Until 2013, €186 euro was considered the minimum cost of sustaining life – a baseline for survival; but recently this ‘luxury’ has been discarded. ”

    This is simply untrue for this country’s 2nd class citizens (not a term i use lightly) ie its youth. When i left college in 2010 i spent 6 months having to survive on 100 euro’s a week jus for simply being under 25. Mind you, with rent of 65 a week that doesn’t lend to a lifestyle of anything more than simply existing.

    No wonder my generation is leaving in drove’s..

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    • I am in the same boat as you were in 2010 so well said. You are right I’m on a little over th weekly sun you earned and it is for being a few months from 25. Pretty hard to save a cent but it’s not for a lack of me trying.

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    • There are very few ‘student’ jobs anymore, because people who normally would’t look at these type of jobs , are now grasping at them , just so they can feel that sense of ‘worth’ , and not be claiming benefits, the flip-side is , that when these jobs are no longer available to young adults, the older generation is put under pressure to help young adult members of the family out, to ‘take up the slack’ if you will . I know from experience, because I took entry level/ school leaver positions after redundancy just to keep off benefits.

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  • Fantastic article!!!
    Nothing said of youngsters with no experience or how hard it is for them to find jobs though :/ Not many employers willing to hire a fresh faced teen straight out of school when so many wildly overqualified and experienced people are going for the same job.
    Someone did mention how disheartening it is not to hear anything back after sending out dozens of applications- i personally find that among the hardest things we’re forced to put up with. Being called spongers by people with safe secure jobs is another though,what would they know of trying to feed yourself (maybe others too!),pay rent and not look homeless for under 200 euro a week? its hard,it sucks,it drains any semblance of self worth you might have had and the future doesn’t look much better. Not many people choose it willingly.

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  • The likes of Cowen and Ahern are sponging far more than people on the dole (even long term) ever will. These are the real spongers in society; and even after trashing the joint, they’re still getting fat on our taxes.

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  • P.S. Excellent article..hits right home.

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  • the problem with those who call people spongers is A. they were never on welfare and like me when I was in employment branded everyone on welfare the same people need to stop listening to fairytale stories about the great welfare life that is spun by those in power only a minority are screwing the system. B another myth is this same shit I hear more and more that people wont take certain jobs cos its not good enough for them well believe me thats another heap of crap if any of the low end jobs as they are known become available people apply straight away, the only reason people turn down work in extreme cases is that employers try use the recession to force people to work under the minimum wage and erode workers rights and of course no one will stand up for workers anymore cos sure a “a job is a job”

    Reply
  • Out of the five benefits of employment listed above, four of them can be satisfied through voluntary work, unfortunately what’s probably considered to be the main benefit ‘The Financial Reward’ isn’t, but as a short term solution it will give you status & self worth, put some kind of structure into your daily life and provide you with a new social network. It”ll also show prospective employers that you’ve got a positive attitude towards work and therefore might even help you get back into paid employment. If anyone’s interested, here’s a link to Volunteer Ireland’s website – http://www.volunteer.ie/

    And it’s only the long term unemployed who have no intentions of working that are considered to be spongers, they contibute nothing to society and laugh at those who do, these kind of people should be issued with food/clothing vouchers that can only be used for food and/or clothing, rather than give them “free money” for their cigarettes, booze etc.

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  • 450000 out of work possibly a lot more if you add in those who cant claim ,now how many jobs are available couple of thousand maybe

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  • After nearly 4 years out of work and one failed attempt at self employment later I’ve come to the conclusion that I wont be working any time soon. Have a pain in my hole applying for jobs that I’m well qualified for and hearing nothing back .Im not in a position to emigrate so looks like its the dole for me for the next few months/ years . And as for doing voluntary work etc… once the social welfare get wind of it they’ll do their best to cut your payment – you just cant win so why f**king bother

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  • 1. People say that the unemployed should apply for jobs… What jobs this myth that there are lots of jobs is a joke
    2. What is available is oversubscribed and many dont even get a response, no matter what skills they have
    3. Many people are supposedly over qualified for the basic jobs so are caught in a trap
    4. According to a source the other day there are 20,000 CE scheme jobs with 200,000 qualifying applicants. To qualify you must be in receipt of JB or JA for qualifying period 12months
    5. The unemployment figures are greater than is shown as many dont exist on a live register… Due to marital status or spouse with income….
    6. Yes education and upskilling is a positive step then jobs need to be created at the end to be beneficial to the economy, otherwise the skills are lost
    7. Many are suffering with mental health issues due to the no hope or vision of employment

    Reply
    • These days most under pressure employers are less likely to offer interviews, they’ll base everything on the important parts of the Cv. Most want all the boxes ticked regarding job requirements and insist on no time-wasters(ie anyone who is’nt 100% qualified).

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    • There always was and there always will be sponges and they should be dealt with, however the vast majority of people on the dole are genuinely out of work…there are NO JOBS, fact!

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  • It’s a shocking way to refer to people regardless of how long they are unemployed! The real spongers are sitting in their ivory towers in Dáil Éireann having sold the country out from under our feet instead of fighting for a better deal and future for us and our children. Shame on FG/LAB #march16

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  • I know a few people who would run a mile if thy where offered a job

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    • I know of several people who have given up permanent work contracts with regular over time to go full time on social welfare (with unmarried mother benefits and free State accommodation). They obviously did not value this nebulus psychological self-worth employment supposedly brings.

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    • Joe i tried to give you a green but some reason it won’t work . Strange that . Some body dose not like hearing the truth

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    • Bullshit. There is no such thing as free state accommodation and no welfare payment would pay more than a full time job with overtime unless they had 10 kids or something.

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    • No such thing as free state accomodation? If someone has zero income except that they receive in social welfare from the State, then it is the State who is paying the rent.

      Are you forgetting about social housing, council houses which are available to rent for €30 a week from social welfare payments. A single mother in Dublin with one child will get up to €875 a month in rent supplement equivalent to €14,000 before tax income. That’s excluding other benefits such as free medical care, free medicine, child benefit, etc.

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    • I have been employed most of my life self employed payed for my children took no benefits even though i was entitled to but i didn’t. the article above is very accurate in what it says about people who want work and cant get it i am flexible as i have no particular skill so i clean drains cut down trees garden clearances van work whatever but now because of my age i cannot get much work at all none of my children have ever been in trouble so don’t cost the state anything .But now because greedy b*stards in the upper and ruling classes couldn’t keep their hands out of cookie jar everybody pays for their mistakes and most of us have lost jobs and cant pay excessive mortgages but they are still working paying off mortgages nobody gives up a job to go on the dole unless it was a really shit job with really shit pay making it worthwhile to sign on if that is the case then the government should either up the wage or reduce the benefit there are spongers out there and always will be don’t lump us all into same category .Always some intransigent tosser out there thinks that those unlucky in job market are spongers you know who you are

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    • Instead of hopping onto everyone else’s comments Joe – can you suggest where the balance is with this issue.

      How would you suggest you could deal with the crime rate in the event of withdrawing all social welfare payments? If that’s not what you are suggesting then let us know where you think the line should be?

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    • who gets free state accommodation? Prisoners and politicians as far as I know, everybody else is assessed and has to pay

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    • Joe.
      May I suggest you read the citizens information page on rent supplement closely..
      http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

      Using your example, €875 is the maximum that a single mother or couple with 1 childs’ rent is permitted to be. This is not the figure they are paid.
      If they apply to the CWO for an apartment where the rent is €876 or any higher, their application will be refused outright.

      Out of this €875 there is a minimum contribution per week, and it is the minimum, the rest is means tested and in reality the contributions toward rent are usually higher.

      Also, it may be worth running a search on daft.ie for a premises available to let, suitable for a mother and child or couple with child – that accepts rent allowance for under €875 in Dublin, then you might see its not all plain sailing..

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  • This article is very interesting. For those of you say apply for jobs 1. What jobs this is a myth the jobs at the moment that are available are oversubscribed. Even if you apply you don’t get a response.
    2. I was told the other day by a source a department, that for 20,000 CE schemes jobs there are 200,000 applications!
    3. The day of people supposedly sponging is well gone, many people unemployed and not claiming welfare and not featuring on live register the figures of unemployment are far greater than reported.
    4. In some parts of the country very few jobs come up! Nep

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  • Good piece but I think the figures from 2006 referring to the number of long-term unemployed are outdated. One of the troika’s recent reports on Ireland stated that 18% of recipients have been in receipt of unemployment assistance for 3 continuous years or more, with 6% (a full 18,000 persons) in receipt of unemployment assistance for 6 or more years of continuous duration.

    (Page 40 of this document http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/occasional_paper/2012/pdf/ocp96_en.pdf )

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    • It may be worth bearing in mind that the figures are for 2012, 4 years after the recession hit. The recently long term unemployed are unemployed due to the lack of jobs, whereas the people who were unemployed when there was more jobs than people may be a little more likely to have an issue keeping them out of the workforce.

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  • It seems the government need to be doing a better job at getting people re-trained. As tight as the global economy is, there are a few new companies coming into Ireland so at least something is happening on that angle. I don’t think there is any magic wand, but inward investment is still trickling along.

    Also, some greater amount of either incentive to hire people over a certain age, or some tough measures to prevent companies hiring the youngest person on the list. Ageism is now an acute problem.

    There also seems to be some greater degree of people trying to start their own businesses which is a good thing.

    Anyone any other thoughts on what might be needed or things they see from first hand experience that are being dreadfully badly-done by the state in terms of getting people back into work?

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    • there should be some incentive for employers to keep people working, if someone is letting go people there should be some form of incentive to keep them employed be it monetary or tax break, its a double whammy for the state when someone loses their job.
      one of the most crucial things the government must do is keep our young people in the country. they are the most highly educated people we have ever produced. an american study cited youth emigration as being devastating to a country going through an austerity programme.

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    • I asked about training but was told I had to be on benefit for a year I am sure there are alternatives any suggestions?

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    • I have always found that particular restriction to be counter intuitive too. Surely the sooner you get into upskilling the better?

      I had to leave my last job due to bullying and mental health problems. In order for me to get help to go back to college I had to be on disability for 3 years. I didn’t want to wait around so long – I felt it was better for my mental health and well being to get back to work as soon as possible, but I needed something to do, my last career had destroyed me. So I put myself through college with my savings, became self employed and did the BTWEA. I have no savings left, and I just about have my nose above water, but I am getting there..

      They would have preferred let me get comfortable on welfare, develop unhealthy habits, and ultimately discourage my return to work. I could never understand it..

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  • It is impossible to get a job when supplication are immediately binned, especially if there is an unemployment gap. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Why on earth would I and thousands of others give up perfectly decent work to sign on the dole? The argument makes no sense at all. Employer’s won’t take on someone who they think is over qualified.
    The most worrying aspect of some of the comments is number of people who don’t seem to understand how the job market operates.

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  • Comparable rates in the UK are paid at a rate of £51.85 per week for those aged 16-24, and £65.45 (equivalent to 75 euro) for those aged over 25. People will cite cost of living differences, but is the UK really three times cheaper to live in than Ireland for cost of food, etc?

    I find it nauseating when people talk of the “most vulnerable of society”. The most vulnerable in society and the ones whose sanity I would worry about are the mugs paying hefty negative equity mortgages, trying to hold down stressful ever-demanding jobs while being brought to penury, while at the same time some social welfare gouger gets the exact same accommodation from the State because of the requirement for designated social housing.

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    • or……… you could be paying more in rent, than people on pre-boom mortgages, and never have any equity or ownership of your home, never be able to release equity on money you have paid over the years, and still have to pay a household tax on something that will never be yours. There are many people on low wages, due the recession, and a government whose policies are driving down wages, whilst increasing costs of living. These people are suffering just as much as those in negative equity and are under just as much, if not more pressure , I sincerely hope that you are trolling Joe , because the idea that attitudes like yours, along a lack of empathy , tolerance and understanding are prevailing, truly saddens me.

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    • What are you talking about? Renters are not liable for the property tax.

      I understand perfectly well while people choose social welfare, amongst the highest in the EU, at rates far greater than those available across the border. I also draw a link between the government’s dire financial situation where there is a gap of €12 billion in annual expenditure between what is taken in in taxes and what is spent, and the fact that circa 40% of the governments expenditure is on social welfare payments. I have empathy and understanding for PS workers facing pay cuts.

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    • renters in local authority housing will be liable for the household charge. Many people in local authority housing are hard-working , paying tax, not entitled to medical cards, or supplements., have already had wages driven down by pay cuts , often made redundant even after taking them.
      The fact you say that you ‘understand perfectly well while people choose social welfare’ (sic) just proves to me that you truly have no understanding of the situation at all, just a presumption that you do.
      I would much rather see the waste in the Governments expenses being examined, the waste in the running of the public sector , and the fraud that is prevalent in the benefit system being addressed, rather than the demonising and polarisation of genuine claimants, be they long or short term.

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    • @ Joe: do you not think landlords will try to re-coup their property tax by putting the rent up? oh i think they will, i think many landlords will so there is your answer, the renter pays for it and the law states they’re not liable. another big load of corrupt crap again.

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  • I work my ass off, all I have is a nice wife a 2007 520 BMW a apartment and only going on two holidays this year

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