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Dublin: 6 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Column: Why I don’t watch Vincent Browne

… or Prime Time, for that matter, Ciarán Mc Mahon writes.

Ciarán Mc Mahon

THE RETURN OF Vincent Browne to the red desk at TV3 recently was heralded across Ireland’s new media with the type of sentiment with which holidaying schoolchildren greet the postman.

But the gnarly return gave me little cause for excitement as I seldom engender enough enthusiasm within myself to log on to that garish website and wait for the paid messages to subside.

It’s not that I bear any ill will towards #VinB, it’s quite simply that I value my peace of mind and good night’s sleep. I know I’m not the only one.

What irks me most, and ires me greatly about such programmes is that, while purporting to be informative about current affairs, I find myself seldom more, and occasionally less informed about that topic having watched one of them.

Quite simply they generate more heat than light, and often another word, which rhymes with the latter, comes to mind. An hour of haranguing, a handful of ad breaks and a whole lot of hectoring does not an educating spectacle make.

But what is it about these programmes that makes them so infuriating? It’s quite simply the format.

Whether it’s Vincent Browne or Pat Kenny, Miriam O’Callaghan or Richard Crowley, the set-up is always the same: bring a bunch of people on and start a row. Of course, that’s not the intention, but that’s what it often looks like, and that’s what apparently garners ratings.

What exactly is wrong with this format? It’s simple, but not obvious. News broadcasting all across the free world is hamstrung by ideas like balance and objectivity.

‘Entirely adversarial’

This necessarily means that current affairs panels should at least appear to have an unbiased chair, and for every person presenting one side of a debate or issue, at least one doing the opposite. That’s the general idea, and that’s what we expect to see. Throw in an ‘independent expert’ or media-friendly head and you’re done.

There’s a fundamental problem with this format and it’s why we all get wound up watching them and come away from them feeling somewhat short-changed. These shows are entirely adversarial – two sides fighting each other – and are roughly based on a courtroom scenario. That’s the whole idea of having a presenter – to be an impartial judge, maintaining order in the proceedings.

We viewers given the illusion of being the jury, passing verdict on the presented evidence (‘you can text the studio…’, ‘tweet using the hashtag’). It would probably be more honest if we admitted that we are simply the members of the public, passively watching via video link.

Don’t forget, of course, that you needn’t rise as they enter your TV screen, but do remember that both Browne and O’Callaghan are from legal backgrounds.

What’s the problem with the adversarial format? Quite simply, we are not prosecuting crimes. In a courtroom it works because the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and the prosecution have to convince the jury – beyond all reasonable doubt – that they committed the crime.

In other words, the onus isn’t on you to show that you’re a good guy – it’s on your opponents to show that you’re a bad guy: prosecution has to be watertight, defence simply has to pick holes.

But the things which are debated on television are not crimes – it’s usually Enda Kenny, being tried, in absentia, for making some decision or other. How does the ‘presumption of innocence until guilty’ work where the act in question is not a crime? and is actually something which the government believe is a good thing?

‘It’s not informing, it’s confusing’

The burden is reversed entirely and this is why the adversarial format doesn’t work. Instead of in a courtroom, where the person accused of a crime is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty, on a current affairs programme, the politician who has made the headlines is assumed to have done something wrong, and must defend their actions.

This is a remarkably ineffective assumption to make from the outset before interviewing a person and unlikely to persuade them to relinquish any new information or admit to any wrongdoing.

Besides, the blustering, bully-boy interviewing techniques being used have all the sophistication of a shotgun and whose intentions are so obvious a dog could predict the response. ‘Government defends actions’, well holy God.

Consequently, it’s no surprise that politicians avoid these shows for as long as they can, where they are baited into an ambush and where the worst is assumed of them and their profession.

It’s not informing, it’s confusing: and really only reinforces the viewer’s existing opinions. The only small surprise in any of these programmes is when a politician lets something slip, makes a mistake or embarrasses themselves: seldom does anything enlightening emerge.

Here’s a small suggestion to the producers of such risible infotainment – instead of trying to spark ‘debate’, how about asking participants what they agree on? What about trying to find consensus, instead of discord?

Current affairs should be a court of arbitration, not argumentation: while repeated spectacles of nit-picking and point-scoring do nothing to advance our society, a single outbreak of compromise in these tough times might help us all sleep easier.

Dr Ciarán Mc Mahon is a psychologist and researcher in politics and social media. He blogs both at candidate.ie and ciaranmcmahon.ie and can be followed @cjamcmahon

Read: He’s back: Vincent Browne returns to our screens tonight

Read: 9 videos that sum-up Ireland’s banking and economic collapse

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Comments (110 Comments)

  • Ciaran

    If you could convert all the red thumbs into cash you’d be sorted. The comment bombing and smartarsery is clearly not going down well.

    Reply
  • Nonsense. We have a compliant media who refuse to ask the tough questions so don’t bag the one guy with the balls to make a few people uncomfortable in the public interest.

    Reply
    • @ColindeB – as I say in the third paragraph, I don’t bear any ill will to Browne at all and it’s not the hard questions – it’s the show’s format. One-on-one interviews would be an improvement on the current set-up, in my opinion – wouldn’t you agree?

      Reply
  • Could not agree more, I watched Prime Time last night in the first time for months, never again, three people all talking over each other, none of them listening with the presenter either interrupting, contradicting and trying to create as much dissension as possible. No Saorview box for me.

    Reply
    • @Brian O’Connor – thanks, that’s exactly my experience too, sadly.

      Reply
    • Agree but that is not debate, when a person refuses to answer a question and spouts the Advisor prepared lies and nonsense, a good chair should cut it out , how many times do they ask a question and you hear “Well, can I just say and please this is a very important point…” or some other diversionary nonsense and then they completely ignore the question, if done properly that should be instantly exposes for what it is and they either answer the question of they don’t , Vin B is alot closer to this ideal than RTE, which for a person going on is effectively, ignore the question with a standard diversionary response and spout out prepared soundbites without any resistance or unwillingness to stop you, thats what you see on PT all the time, what if you once heard M O’C say , listen “X”, i have asked you a very clear question, you can either answer it or you can refuse and let the audience draw their own conclusions, but you are not coming on my show, refuse to answer questions and just use the airtime to promote your interest/agenda” and then cut them off if they continue to disregard her questions and the intelligence of at least a significant amount of the audience.
      A criticism of an adversarial debate per se is not an accurate criticism of the nonsense on these shows.

      Reply
    • @ Economicopoly – nail on the head re the diversionary nonsense, but they would run out of this sort of thing if it was a one-on-one interview. It’s more the pitting of people against each other that I find pointless

      Reply
  • Judging by the authors response to negative comments, isn’t this article hugely ironic? It’s also extremely unpleasant that the Journal would allow such “haranguing” of users by one of their own.

    Reply
  • Dmc 20/09/12 #

    Fr Damo is on TV now. This is more exciting! ‘Oasis or Blur?!’

    Reply
  • Mjhint 20/09/12 #

    While I would have a lot of different views to VB & I doubt we would have much in common,what I do like about him is his ability to anger confuse & make politicians uncomfortable. He wont let go. There is no moving around the flanks with any point. Its straight down the middle with his criticisms of politics & he either gets his answer or complete resignation from the responder. Sometimes its hard to watch but I feel politicians dread the show. I say more of it.

    Reply
    • @ Mjhint – I’ve no problem with the tough questioning, it’s setting people up against each other that I think is pointless. Might be better if he interviewed them one-on-one?

      Reply
    • Mjhint 21/09/12 #

      Ciaran I think you may have the view that politicians answer truthfully & correctly to any question put to them. I dont hold that view,actually I think they are incapable of such actions. I might be a cynic but the evidence strongly supports my view. I think that politicians need to be drawn into public debates were they can be openly humilated by their hipocracy. VB wont change any policies but at least he can show a good politician or a bad one. Thats all he does for me. He exposes them & they suffer badly.

      Reply
  • Column: Why I don’t watch Vincent Browne.
    The article got off to a bad start, with the above title. I can best sum up the main issue I have with it, using a quote from Blackadder:
    Blackadder: [Describing Baldrick's poetry] It started badly, it tailed off a little in the middle and the less said about the end the better, but apart from that it was excellent.

    But then again, you’re entitled to your opinion. And that’s fine.

    Reply
    • @ciaran in this piece you used the analogy of the criminal justice adversarial system. I prefer to look at, and I believe it makes more sense to look at the Vincent Browne show compared to the more continental inquisitorial system where the judge plays an active part and role in the investigation of the allegation. Perhaps we as the audience are just interested spectators as opposed to jury members. I know I am. Also I fully believe in a person being challenged by either the host or a fellow panel member. I do not feel they should be given free reign. That’s just too easy. On a side note a person is PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty. A little pedantic but nonetheless important to point out. the real j.b

      Reply
  • I just watch for the bonus nights when Sarah mcinerney is on FOXYLADY

    Reply
  • he would have got more than 3.75m out of 75m..sack howlin and give vinny the job

    Reply
  • Ok! Is it bluff or double bluff? Dr.and psychologist implies intelligence or just stupidity..Or who cares? Vincent Browne is a ray of light in the pervasive darkness in which we live.

    Reply
  • This guy would put me off from logging on to the Journal! :(
    Seems with all his education he lacks basic manners and general respect for his fellow man..

    Reply
  • I really enjoy Vincent Browne! Its oneof the few shows I watch, not every night but i love all the banter! And I love the way VB forces the extra slimy politicians to answer!!. Whats this journalist want..nice TV? boring! Yawn, Don’t Rock the Boat now!!

    Reply
  • This needed to be said, if the host isn’t trying to impress us with how much he knows about everything he is firing lots of questions at the panelist without waiting for an answer. More heat than light, no wonder younger people are completely turned off current affairs. Mind you, it’s great craic when sometimes VB gets a grip on a politician who is spouting rubbish.

    Reply
  • I got bored half way through and couldnt finish reading it… *yawn*

    Reply
  • is this journalism ?

    Reply
    • Not really. It’s a long comment disguised as an article.

      Reply
    • I believe it’s called an opinion piece. Common place in printed media.

      Reply
    • alan 20/09/12 #

      no, it isnt journalism and the opinion is hardly worth stating. this kind of ‘piece’ should not appear in any public forum. it is bland and lacks any kind of originality or insight.

      of course, the irony , apparently missed by the writer, is that his own effort at commentary is as dull and ineffectual as those he criticises

      but he should’nt be unduly worried. in an hour or two it will have been consigned to the ether, sparing him the embarrassment of having to account for it in any place other than here

      Reply
    • So an OP is not news, it’s not to inform, and the writer is not a public figure about whose opinion is relevant to me. Harsh words, I know, but I’m not (just) slagging off the piece. I’m being sincere and on the level when I say that I don’t understand the intention of the article. What’s my incentive to read it? What am I meant to get from it?

      Reply
    • Then clue is in the tag, its says opinion

      Reply
    • No. It is not journalism. He’s just saying what we’ve all felt in the past few years, having watched drivel like these programmes, not informative, no constructive discussion, conversation from any of the people that are invited on to these panels. Some of them feel and I am quite sure think that they are celebs. I refuse to watch amaturish programmes like these that upset, depress and make the ordinary folk feel worse in the situation that they find themselves in because of so called experienced Irish politicians that haven’t got a bloody clue what they’re talking about.

      Ciaran McMahon is just lucky that his opinion was printed, has said nothing new and has not made me feel any better about my and others situation that we find ourselves in, not by choice!

      Reply
    • Z? 20/09/12 #

      But yer not forced to watch it. Change channel or even better, follow the wisdom of Why Don’t You, Switch Off the telly and so something else…

      Reply
    • @ Raymond Searson – Yes, it is.

      @ John Conniffe – You got me there, Count.

      @ Ciaran Dillon – Bingo! Your future is bright

      @ alan – lucid brilliance. In reply, so’s your face, egghead

      @ Count Conniffe – take a chill pill, buddy – they’re just pixels on a screen

      @ Joe Maher – love your work

      @ Sheila Byrne – finally, thanks!

      @ Z? – cheers, for the memory of Why Don’t You

      Reply
    • @ Ciaran Mc – Sorkin’s new show The Newsroom takes a shot at these types of shows as seen on Fox News et al. The ridiculous need to counter every argument no matter how nonsensical the opposing figure is.

      The example of the MMR scare comes to mind. The opinions of “Worried Mothers Against Vaccinations” (skit) given the same air time and status as qualified doctors.

      As for those amazed by #VinB’s ability to confuse politicians. It is a simple trick really. Simply ask a politician a question. When he answers ‘xyz’ make out that he answered ‘xzy’, then ask a follow up question based on the ‘xzy’ answer. Confused? See I told you it was simple. But then without #VinB what would Boyd-Barrett do with his evenings, and his opinions…

      Reply
    • For someone making a point out of “light and heat” your view is based on circumspect understanding of what your talking about, not all court proceedings are criminal as you suggested….”What’s the problem with the adversarial format? Quite simply, we are not prosecuting crimes. In a courtroom it works because the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and the prosecution have to convince the jury – beyond all reasonable doubt – that they committed the crime”. The court system is also a venue for the resolution of civil disputes in which the burden of proof is the “balance of probabilities”

      In theory at least , the adversarial nature is that the strongest arguments withstand the opposing scrutiny, there is of course room for considerable improvement in these formats but to require a debate to allign to the same format as a criminal proceeding does not make any sense. While these shows are at times constrained by the need to fill space, one thing for VB is his refusal to accept PR prepared nonsense unlike RTE which will ask a tough question but accept whatever spiel is returned. He is one of the few journalists in this country who is fearless in asking questions and they are valid question , Bertie Ahern, Brian Cowen, The troika rep , no one else at those conferences had the nerve to ask those questions but they need to be asked and the persons refusal to provide an answer reveals so much more than the pr prepared soundbytes that politicians rely on, only an idiot attaches any credence to those, debate should also provide a hostile ground for such nonsense.

      Reply
    • @ Economicopoly – yes, courts also hear civil disputes, with a different burden of proof, but I don’t see what you’re getting at. Do the arguments on Vincent Browne fall or stand on the balance of probabailities?

      Re: your second paragraph – “to require a debate to allign to the same format as a criminal proceeding does not make any sense”. That’s exactly the entire point of the whole article – these debates should not align to criminal proceedings at all.

      Reply
    • Why I don’t read thejournal.ie: an exclusively online newspaper that is still looking for it’s identity, thejournal.ie sways from serious reporter to tabloid sensationalist to social network memer.

      Vincent Browne meanwhile is one of Ireland’s last real journalists, who through a combination of perspicacity and hard research finds out things that really matter. His TV3 show offers the one independent voice on Irish television that actually asks hard questions and doesn’t settle for typical political brush offs.

      To call this nit-picking is a sad indictment of the state of Irish democracy

      Reply
  • Granted, it is an annoying format but it is nice to feel that those who are generally harangued in this type of show, politicians and policy makers, are made to defend their decisions in a no-holds-barred environment. I remember watching Wolf Blitzer interviewing Dick Cheney and being nauseated with his deferential approach, with Cheney staring him down when he disapproved of the line of questioning. An elected representative is there by the grace of the voters and in my opinion should be kept on their toes and always answerable to the people who put them where they are. I imagine Vincent Browne, or any interviewer would not be thanked for appearing to pander in any way to our very well fed public representatives. Give ‘em hell I say!

    Reply
  • So a psychologist says that TV presenters should be more like psychologists ( arbitration and moderation are concepts taken from therapeutic methodology ) and less like lawyers. And what would a lawyer say.

    To be honest, I’d stick to the view that TV is based on entertaining, not informing, judging or arbitrating.

    Reply
  • Cpm 20/09/12 #

    In fairness, Ciaran, I doubt anyone outside your sitting room cares what you watch

    Reply
  • I had decided long before i saw this to stop watching VB also. I used to enjoy it but it has developed into a bit of a boring show.

    Reply
  • This is an awful meandering piece of boiled turd… The man is one of the few voices that is speaking in an articulate way against a rather inept gov.. this comment sums up your actual acumen. ” Enda Kenny, being tried, in absentia”

    Ill think you’ll find that Enda refused to go on his show despite numourus invitations, but sure why let actual facts and reasoning get in the way of your flowery language and self back patting that you got to use ‘irk’ and ‘Ire’ within 2 paragraphs….. what a pleb!

    Reply
  • You are dead right Ciaran I hate it when a person has the balls and the means to stand up for the people of Ireland who is getting shafted by their own government.

    Who does he think he is, asking all those tough questions. How dare he!!!

    We should bow, have the cap in one hand while extending the other for bailouts to pay foreign gamblers.
    We are Irish after all, ‘like’.

    Reply
  • Dear Ciaran, Get back to us when you publically hold a member of the cabal whose decimating our country to task in the manner Vincent Browne did with that bloke from the ECB at that news conference

    Reply
  • Ciaran has stated that he can’t comment on VB’s agenda as he never watches the show so I’m wondering how he can write an opinion column on a programme he hasn’t watched. Perhaps I’m missing something here.
    I think someone in Irish media needs to ask the hard questions and VB seems well capable of that. The RTE people are not persistent enough, imo.

    Reply
  • think he should bring up about the bankers going to court, at long last BUT can only be fined up to 3500, how much will the taxpayer have to pay , judges, barristers and court officials,,, is it worth bringing them to court to make us pay more, signed homeowner nearly homeless,,

    Reply
  • As the politicians are not brought to the criminal courts I will settle for Vincent trying to force reasonable explanations from unreasonable TDs.

    Reply
  • Z? 20/09/12 #

    Next up: ” Why I don’t like tomatoes” by The Hairy Guy Behind The Counter In The Academic Section of Hodges Figgis. Groundbreaking and unmissable. The interweb will be a’storm.

    Reply
  • Pretty watertight argument right there and good article Ciaran. Sometimes I wonder am I just a glutton for punishment!

    Reply
  • I love Vincent Browne, and watch it every night nearly, it depends on what he is talking about. He is more intelligent than any of those politicians in the coalition government, as they are not able to answer his questions, most of the time.

    Reply
  • Browne wears his contempt on his sleeve. Great entertainment but nothing more than a soap box to get his personal views across and purge his failures both in business and his attempt to get into politics ( Fiana Gael turned him down)…

    Reply
  • You see on one hand you have Dennis O Brien Monopolized Media and on the other you have Vincent Brown . Not much of a fourth estate, but you decide ?

    Reply
  • Bruce 21/09/12 #

    man what a boring effort at a tirade. Author: it helps to have a coherent argument.

    Reply
  • Vincent is one of the best at asking the uncomfortable questions, and making a politician squirm. But, only those politicians that don’t conform to his own personal agenda.
    It may be argued that his agenda is right, but in a democracy, and in a show that is supposedly a current affairs programme, it is not his place to decide right and wrong, but simply to moderate the discussions.
    those that do conform, can slide easily by during the show.
    As a current affairs moderator, all sides should be treated equally. This includes uncomfortable questions for all politicians. Not just those that Vincent has decided to ridicule on that particular night.

    Reply
  • Vincent’s rants make me feel like I’m caught in the crossfire of the in-laws having a row at the dinner table about something the rest of us don’t understand or give a damn about but feel very uncomfortable. Sadly, I don’t have a remote control for the in-laws…..

    Reply
  • Meandering, pointless, dross.

    Reply
  • Browne has too many fanboys who will never ask questions about his own lefty agenda.

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  • @ Caiman McMahon…. please don’t confuse my cynicism for fatigue from seeing all of our politicians dance around and avoiding questions. it happens all the time, that is just a fact there is no debate to be had on this. the likes of vb is very good at pushing them to the edge and causing the yahoos to fluster and squirm a bit but you nosy have a point about the format but I think better chairing of a discussion would help a great deal

    Reply
  • More comments written on this site about vinb than there was about the hospitals closing the Garda stations shutting up shop and the elderly losing what ever rights they have got and paid for long before any of these politicians where in the hot seat cop on people focuse on something worth while that’s why these idiots in the dail are getting away with poor representation of the people that put them there

    Reply
  • Nydon 21/09/12 #

    OK. New format show suggestion:
    Title: Brainstorm Bootcamp
    Pitch: Imagine 6 – 7 politicians of different parties in a factory conference setting with a whiteboard and facilitator.
    “Right ladies and gentlemen, we want you, as a group, to come up with an agreed plan to get us out of this mess. Ground rules: only positive contributions, no point scoring and those who contribute least number of successfull adopted ideas will have to leave…

    Reply
  • Why I don’t read thejournal.ie (this article was shared with me): an exclusively online newspaper that is still looking for it’s identity, thejournal.ie sways from serious reporter to tabloid sensationalist to social network memer.

    Vincent Browne meanwhile is one of Ireland’s last real journalists, who through a combination of perspicacity and hard research finds out things that really matter. His TV3 show offers the one independent voice on Irish television that actually asks hard questions and doesn’t settle for typical political brush offs.

    To call this nit-picking is a sad indictment of the state of Irish democracy

    Reply
  • I agree with ciaran. I once heard a commentator say that his job was to ask a question and let the person answer. Then it’s up to the public to decide. Vincent Browne is all about himself.

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    • Declan before you comment you should think about what you say….his job is to ask a question and let the person answer!!!!???!! Have you ever heard a politician answer a question he’s been answered???? Ffs vinB is the only presenter that asks a question and INSISTS they answer and doesn’t give up until they do!!!

      Reply
    • Shit you not, don’t get mad at me! I just don’t like Vincent brownes style. Ask the question, let them answer and if Browne wants to say ” sorry but you did not answer the question” then move on. YOU as one of the electorate can then decide on the person being interviewed.

      Reply
    • How about we keep asking the question until we get a relevant answer?

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    • A really daft comment, even by your standards, Declan.

      Reply
    • Declan is right, because he agrees with me, obviously.

      But in all seriousness, it’s not the ‘tough questioning’ that I disagree with – it’s the pitting people against each other. Tough questioning is important, but there’s no need for anyone else to be there. Why not one-on-one? Pitting government vs opposition only results in soundbites and slagging.

      Reply
    • How so petr? Let me make myself clear. I don’t mind the tough questions, I have no problem with people being put on the spot. I love it when someone gets grilled. I like to see people being exposed when they’ve done wrong. However Vincent gets in the way by not allowing the other person to speak thereby I find myself not being able to judge the person myself.

      Reply
  • its needs to be more like newnight where the person responsible for the policy comes on, but not just one and one, the broascaster rarely knows as much as a third party campaigner or even yes an opposition politician

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  • The raison d’etre for Vincent’s programme is your comment Though at the same time, I can’t see many politicians going on that show!

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  • Darach 20/09/12 #

    Nice piece. I completely agree; if I’m trying to make my mind up about an issue, a screaming match doesn’t help.

    It’s like having a cock-fight and calling it a seminar on poultry behaviour.

    Reply
  • so ciaran and commenters.. what do ye want? what is you point?

    Reply
    • Z? 20/09/12 #

      Now, that is the question. The psychologist wants to expend his profile, get his name bandied about and further his career, given that his a researcher and ( alarm bells ringing ) a blogger with a personalised domain. The comment want to do what commenters do, bash keys, have their tuppence worth and hopefully join in on a bit of a scrap…

      Reply
    • You’re on my wavelength Z….. lets accept the entertainment value presented in these formats and not hold out for sensible comment from the greatest drain on the political system…… career politicians.

      Reply
    • @ Z? – guilty as charged, nicely deduced Watson

      @ Darren J Heslin – that’s the problem alright, I think these sort of programmes can leave you very cynical, rightly or wrongly, about politics. Which is a shame – public service should be the highest honour possible.

      Reply
  • great article

    Reply
  • You’re all amazing, thanks. Plenty to think about!

    I should’ve been much clearer that I have no problem with politicians being harangued by Browne, none whatsoever. It’s pitting one politician against another which I think is pointless.

    Having read some of the excellent points above, I reckon that a straightforward one-on-one interview would be much more enlightening than three people crossing over each other all the time. Though at the same time, I can’t see many politicians going on that show!

    Reply
  • So does this mean you’re a huge Judge Judy fan? :-) :-) :-)

    Reply
  • Just to make it clear- my comment is in direct response to Danny McLaughlin’s comments. I agree with what he says. I have watched the VB show FYI and found that everybody shouts overreact other person. Not really a discussion IMO.

    Reply

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